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APM measurements changes in 1.4.0 - Page 10

Forum Index > SC2 General
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AndreiDaGiant
Profile Joined October 2010
United States394 Posts
August 26 2011 16:27 GMT
#181
i dont really care but i think it is inaccurate... which there fore makes it a useless stat in my opinion
Terran Metal for the Win
dukem
Profile Joined January 2011
Norway189 Posts
August 26 2011 16:35 GMT
#182
Goody is no longer unique.
"Flash just accidentally killed grubby lol" - MangoMountain
Herculix
Profile Joined May 2010
United States946 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-26 16:40:08
August 26 2011 16:39 GMT
#183
all it does is make APM go from slightly inaccurate to completely arbitrary and useless. people inflate it but high APM is what happens when people are incredibly on point with managing everything. no, i don't like it, because checking people's APM was a minor but noticable thing to me. APM was something that could be read a lot of ways because it counted all your clicks and you can tell when people were just slow or when people were overclicking things. not sure what use it has now other than just to show off lol
maryelizbethwinstead
Profile Joined April 2011
Mexico223 Posts
August 26 2011 16:43 GMT
#184
What I get from this thread is people care a lot more about their APM than they would like to let on.
Lord, teach me to be patient.
Beardedclam
Profile Joined September 2010
United States839 Posts
August 26 2011 16:43 GMT
#185
This is retarded. They need to fix 1/1/1 and not mess with things from BW that they didn't invent.
"bye bye" - genius "#$@% you" - Idra------------|Genius|DRG|Keen|---------Breakfast.213
Vague
Profile Joined April 2011
170 Posts
August 26 2011 16:50 GMT
#186
This will be good for all the lower players that try to have the APM of the pros and as a result they are more focused on spamming than in the game.
cydial
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States750 Posts
August 26 2011 16:53 GMT
#187
Definetly a good change.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard people reference their apm instead of their macro or micro in regards to their skill.

Then when I see a replay of them playing I notice how much lower the other player's apm is and yet he is macroing more and winning engagement after engagement.
SalsaShark
Profile Joined March 2011
United States56 Posts
August 26 2011 16:56 GMT
#188
This is a pretty silly change. Players will still spam a ton, now they just won't know how quickly they are spamming. I see a 3rd party program coming out to calculate the 'old' APM.
the terrans are still beneath me - oGsMC
fds
Profile Joined February 2011
Slovenia258 Posts
August 26 2011 16:59 GMT
#189
Blizzard should start by switching into real APM (normal minutes). Don't you dare to say its impossible. I bet you can make that change in less than 5mins.

This change is probably to give viewers better covariation between APM and multitasking.

Blizzard should stop wasting time on tweaking thinks like this and rather add more oh-so-needed features into battle.net.
If they don't know what are we talking about they should just look what LOL has
cOoLiD
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada168 Posts
August 26 2011 17:01 GMT
#190
What is the point of having an "Actions Per Minute" tab if it doesn't actually count your actions per minute?
dbddbddb
Profile Joined April 2010
Singapore969 Posts
August 26 2011 17:05 GMT
#191
On August 27 2011 01:59 fds wrote:
Blizzard should start by switching into real APM (normal minutes). Don't you dare to say its impossible. I bet you can make that change in less than 5mins.

This change is probably to give viewers better covariation between APM and multitasking.

Blizzard should stop wasting time on tweaking thinks like this and rather add more oh-so-needed features into battle.net.
If they don't know what are we talking about they should just look what LOL has


doing so will complicate things imo... if they switch to apm for real minutes.. people will start wondering why in-game timer isnt real time as well.. and blizzard will have to convert the timings of pretty much every thing in game.. so zealots will be 30.5387 seconds to build etc
floor exercise
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada5847 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-26 17:09:48
August 26 2011 17:07 GMT
#192
On August 27 2011 01:53 cydial wrote:
Definetly a good change.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard people reference their apm instead of their macro or micro in regards to their skill.

Then when I see a replay of them playing I notice how much lower the other player's apm is and yet he is macroing more and winning engagement after engagement.


So? APM is still worthless on its own, now it's whoever issues the most move commands which has no reflection on in game success or failure.

It will never be a number that reflects skill. Anyone who gets caught up into thinking it does is an idiot, before or after this patch.

That's what people who try to tinker with APM need to get into their heads. It is literally just a number. By changing what counts as actions you aren't making this number more or less accurate, because it doesn't actually reflect anything but how many actions you are performing. Well, I guess it makes it less accurate because now it won't even do that reliably.

In fact, more people will now think it matters than before. So really all these sorts of things do (and trying to change the way APM is derived is nothing new in the SC world) is put more emphasis on this number that never really meant anything to begin with
Kimaker
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2131 Posts
August 26 2011 17:09 GMT
#193
Coming from BW, I'd just prefer if they kept the same formula as that...but that's just purely aesthetic on my part. Really, it just doesn't matter.
Entusman #54 (-_-) ||"Gold is for the Mistress-Silver for the Maid-Copper for the craftsman cunning in his trade. "Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall, But Iron — Cold Iron — is master of them all|| "Optimism is Cowardice."- Oswald Spengler
SoylentCreep
Profile Joined September 2010
Korea (South)176 Posts
August 26 2011 17:09 GMT
#194
The important question here should be: " What is Blizzard trying to achieve with that change?" I don't see any useful or important reason to change what is globally accepted by the community. Furthermore, APM was never an indication of skill (at least for normal people). The only reason why I take a look at my APM sometimes is to check if I was busy enough in my games. When I see 120 APM i can imply that i was doing enough. This doesnt mean I wasn't spamming. I just know that 120 APM is my cap and I did my potentially most actions per minute in a game(tabbing, injects, etc.). Also when somebody is spamming to have a high APM and bragging about it, just take a look at his replays and you can see his skill level. All this change does is confuse people.
wishbones
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada2600 Posts
August 26 2011 17:12 GMT
#195
this is a stupid change. they remove real apm, and add fake apm. apm = actions.
they just ruined apm for sc2 lmao. Oh well i play bw so im still good enjoying accurate reads of my apm. :D 200+
joined TL.net in 2006 (aka GMer) - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=41944#2
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7032 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-26 17:22:38
August 26 2011 17:17 GMT
#196
I could agree to this change if they would differentiate between selecting a control group and centering your screen on it. If you do: 44, 55, 66 to check on your queens I would call that three different actions, but I fear the new way of measuring will count it as one.

For those who say that Blizzard has fake APM now: spamming controlgroup hotkeys was the biggest contributor to mindless spamming, so if you would take that away from the real APM count then yes, maybe you get some real actions, but those might just be a small portion of your effective APM so it should still be a fairly accurate way to measure speed.


On August 27 2011 02:07 floor exercise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2011 01:53 cydial wrote:
Definetly a good change.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard people reference their apm instead of their macro or micro in regards to their skill.

Then when I see a replay of them playing I notice how much lower the other player's apm is and yet he is macroing more and winning engagement after engagement.


So? APM is still worthless on its own, now it's whoever issues the most move commands which has no reflection on in game success or failure.

It will never be a number that reflects skill. Anyone who gets caught up into thinking it does is an idiot, before or after this patch.

That's what people who try to tinker with APM need to get into their heads. It is literally just a number. By changing what counts as actions you aren't making this number more or less accurate, because it doesn't actually reflect anything but how many actions you are performing. Well, I guess it makes it less accurate because now it won't even do that reliably.

In fact, more people will now think it matters than before. So really all these sorts of things do (and trying to change the way APM is derived is nothing new in the SC world) is put more emphasis on this number that never really meant anything to begin with


If it's just a meaningless number then Blizzard should remove it from the game. Then it's just a funny little statistic with no real relation to the game's outcome and therefore not useful for spectators. Don't you think a sport that habitually goes: "WoW! Look at that speed, you folks at home couldn't do it." is a bit silly when the speed doesn't translate to useful ability? Fortunately it somewhat does, but then why shouldn't you try and filter the raw values for a more useful eAPM number?

Someone implied maybe Goody's and Merz's apm won't be so far apart now anymore, but isn't that a good thing since it makes APM more reflective of their actual skill?
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
Kiangani
Profile Joined April 2011
United States122 Posts
August 26 2011 17:20 GMT
#197
I mean, I'm gonna have less APM in the beginning with my 14box14box14box14box14box but... I really don't care at all. I think it's kind of a pointless change, but I'm not opposed to it.
"david some do it T>T" - The Emperor, SlayerS BoxeR, MLG Pro Circuit 2011 Anaheim
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-26 17:21:10
August 26 2011 17:20 GMT
#198
ITT: People who think that 1.6 km is somehow longer than 1 mile .

Seriously, its just a comparative value. If you had higher APM before than someone else you will still have a higher APM now.

Haha oh wow.
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
floor exercise
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada5847 Posts
August 26 2011 17:29 GMT
#199
On August 27 2011 02:17 Grumbels wrote:
I could agree to this change if they would differentiate between selecting a control group and centering your screen on it. If you do: 44, 55, 66 to check on your queens I would call that three different actions, but I fear the new way of measuring will count it as one.

For those who say that Blizzard has fake APM now: spamming controlgroup hotkeys was the biggest contributor to mindless spamming, so if you would take that away from the real APM count then yes, maybe you get some real actions, but those might just be a small portion of your effective APM so it should still be a fairly accurate way to measure speed.


Show nested quote +
On August 27 2011 02:07 floor exercise wrote:
On August 27 2011 01:53 cydial wrote:
Definetly a good change.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard people reference their apm instead of their macro or micro in regards to their skill.

Then when I see a replay of them playing I notice how much lower the other player's apm is and yet he is macroing more and winning engagement after engagement.


So? APM is still worthless on its own, now it's whoever issues the most move commands which has no reflection on in game success or failure.

It will never be a number that reflects skill. Anyone who gets caught up into thinking it does is an idiot, before or after this patch.

That's what people who try to tinker with APM need to get into their heads. It is literally just a number. By changing what counts as actions you aren't making this number more or less accurate, because it doesn't actually reflect anything but how many actions you are performing. Well, I guess it makes it less accurate because now it won't even do that reliably.

In fact, more people will now think it matters than before. So really all these sorts of things do (and trying to change the way APM is derived is nothing new in the SC world) is put more emphasis on this number that never really meant anything to begin with


If it's just a meaningless number then Blizzard should remove it from the game. Then it's just a funny little statistic with no real relation to the game's outcome and therefore not useful for spectators. Don't you think a sport that habitually goes: "WoW! Look at that speed, you folks at home couldn't do it." is a bit silly when the speed doesn't translate to useful ability? Fortunately it somewhat does, but then why shouldn't you try and filter the raw values for a more useful eAPM number?

Someone implied maybe Goody's and Merz's apm won't be so far apart now anymore, but isn't that a good thing since it makes APM more reflective of their actual skill?


You're missing the point where you're not making it more useful. You're just arbitrarily cutting things out because you decide they aren't useful.

Before apm was ever even calculated from bw replays Koreans played at 300 apm. The underlining principle you should take away from APM is that playing an RTS where every second counts as fast as you can is generally a good idea.

That's all APM reflects as a number. When you take things out of it you aren't making it a better number as a result. Why is selecting things multiple times more or less significant than giving redundant move commands? Or right clicking an scv to a mineral multiple times before it gets there.

There's no one alive who can accurately judge what action is absolutely necessary and what action is unnecessary, so why bother trying to draw a line anywhere?

Removing the APM tab is fine I guess, the only function it serves to give us a glimpse of how fast a player is playing without seeing their perspective as opposed to "how effectively they are playing" which is just a stupid thing to try to quantify
TheSwamp
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1497 Posts
August 26 2011 17:38 GMT
#200
It's not a big deal. I just think they waste way too much time on stupid changes such as this and the cancel building thing. Knowing that a Terran player got 75 minerals back from cancelling a bunker isn't going to win anyone games. They might as well just take APM out of the game entirely.
MLG: How is your Protoss? Idra: I make Blink Stalkers, so really, really good.
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