• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:06
CET 14:06
KST 22:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT29Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block0GSL CK - New online series13BSL Season 224Vitality ends partnership with ONSYDE20Team Liquid Map Contest - Preparation Notice6
StarCraft 2
General
GSL CK - New online series Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block Weekly Cups (Feb 23-Mar 1): herO doubles, 2v2 bonanza Vitality ends partnership with ONSYDE How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game?
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) $5,000 WardiTV Winter Championship 2026
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 516 Specter of Death Mutation # 515 Together Forever Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BSL 22 Map Contest — Submissions OPEN to March 10 BSL Season 22 battle.net problems
Tourneys
ASL Season 21 Qualifiers March 7-8 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues BWCL Season 64 Announcement [BSL22] Open Qualifier #1 - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread Path of Exile No Man's Sky (PS4 and PC) Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Mexico's Drug War Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
General nutrition recommendations 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Gaming-Related Deaths
TrAiDoS
ONE GREAT AMERICAN MARINE…
XenOsky
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1736 users

Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 265

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 263 264 265 266 267 1266 Next
larse
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
1611 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-16 00:45:05
July 16 2012 00:18 GMT
#5281
On July 16 2012 05:40 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2012 05:30 Snowbear wrote:
On July 16 2012 05:04 Big J wrote:
On July 16 2012 04:42 Crying wrote:
you guys are joking right
zerg not cost efficient???

BL/Infestor???

Ling/Ultra/Baneling/Infestor???

You joke right?

And you know that actually if protoss makes air to deal with BLs they die to a fungal?
And if we build colossus the zerg can pop 15corrupturs and NO BLINK can deal but not enoughly good


Cost of Baneling per supply: 100/50
Cost of Broodlord per supply: 75/62,5
Cost of Infestor per supply: 50/75
Cost of Corruptor per supply: 75/50
Cost of Ultralisk per supply: 50/33,3
Cost of Zergling per supply: 50/0

Now let's compare them to what Protoss and Terrans use against them:

Cost of Medivac per supply: 50/50
Cost of Viking per supply: 75/37,5
Cost of Tank per supply: 50/41,6
Cost of Thor per supply: 50/33,3
Cost of Marauder per supply: 50/12.5
Cost of Marine per supply: 50/0


Cost of HT and (HT-) Archon per supply: 25/75
Cost of Mothership per supply: 50/50
Cost of Colossus per supply: 50/33,3
Cost of Immortal per supply: 62,5/25
Cost of Stalker per supply: 62,5/25
Cost of Zealot per supply: 50/0

So no, in even supply the "usual" Zerg endgame army just costs way more (and is therefore not "costefficient") than the "usual" P/T army.
Funny enough, if you start using more and more Archons and a mothership and add in HTs (25/75) for carpet storming and replace stalkers with carriers (75/41,6), Protoss does very well because then they use armies that actually cost a similar amount of minerals and gas.
Similar for Terrans that use Ravens (50/100) and BCs (66,6/50) and the occasional ghost (100/50) to EMP and snipe Infestors.

If there is a problem with BL/Inf/Cor or Ultra/bling/inf (or whatever exact mixture of units is best), it is that zerg gets such an army way before Terran and Protoss, which can't switch into their respective "perfect armies" (so armies that don't use marines or marauders or stalkers) easily in the lategame.


Let's imagine a maxed ling bling infestor ultra army. It will kill the terran army (unless the zerg fucks up). The zerg will remax faster, and the terran will lose his expansions. Zerg is maxed and can put more money in his eco. How can the terran ever win???


A maxed ling/bling/infestor/Ultra army gets DESTROYED by a maxed Tank/Thor/Hellion(Ghost) army and can't even fight a maxed BC/Raven force.
If you insist on going bio or biomech against Zerg in the lategame, then you have to avoid big main army engagements at all costs, because the Zerg army is simply stronger, because it is simply way more costly.

Again, I'm not saying that the game is balanced in the lategame, because the transitioning is too hard for Terran and the "timing window" for Broodlords therefore is way to big. (while the same does not hold for Protoss; transitioning into Archons (Warpgatebased) and Mothership (only one needed) is quite OK)


This is not entirely true. BL/Inf/Cor or Ultra/bling/inf will beat Terran on creep with the same supply and even perfect split and perfect positioning of tanks. But when off creep it's true that Terran can beat that zerg late-game composition. You can try that in the unit tester.

But Let's be honest, here is a list the recent zerg champions:

WCS China
WCS Canada
WCS South Amercia
WCS France
WCS UK
WCS Poland
WCS Combined European
WCS USA
WCS New Zealand
WCS Chile
Account252508
Profile Joined February 2012
3454 Posts
July 16 2012 00:48 GMT
#5282
--- Nuked ---
larse
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
1611 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-16 01:15:16
July 16 2012 01:06 GMT
#5283
On July 16 2012 09:48 monkybone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2012 09:18 larse wrote:
On July 16 2012 05:40 Big J wrote:
On July 16 2012 05:30 Snowbear wrote:
On July 16 2012 05:04 Big J wrote:
On July 16 2012 04:42 Crying wrote:
you guys are joking right
zerg not cost efficient???

BL/Infestor???

Ling/Ultra/Baneling/Infestor???

You joke right?

And you know that actually if protoss makes air to deal with BLs they die to a fungal?
And if we build colossus the zerg can pop 15corrupturs and NO BLINK can deal but not enoughly good


Cost of Baneling per supply: 100/50
Cost of Broodlord per supply: 75/62,5
Cost of Infestor per supply: 50/75
Cost of Corruptor per supply: 75/50
Cost of Ultralisk per supply: 50/33,3
Cost of Zergling per supply: 50/0

Now let's compare them to what Protoss and Terrans use against them:

Cost of Medivac per supply: 50/50
Cost of Viking per supply: 75/37,5
Cost of Tank per supply: 50/41,6
Cost of Thor per supply: 50/33,3
Cost of Marauder per supply: 50/12.5
Cost of Marine per supply: 50/0


Cost of HT and (HT-) Archon per supply: 25/75
Cost of Mothership per supply: 50/50
Cost of Colossus per supply: 50/33,3
Cost of Immortal per supply: 62,5/25
Cost of Stalker per supply: 62,5/25
Cost of Zealot per supply: 50/0

So no, in even supply the "usual" Zerg endgame army just costs way more (and is therefore not "costefficient") than the "usual" P/T army.
Funny enough, if you start using more and more Archons and a mothership and add in HTs (25/75) for carpet storming and replace stalkers with carriers (75/41,6), Protoss does very well because then they use armies that actually cost a similar amount of minerals and gas.
Similar for Terrans that use Ravens (50/100) and BCs (66,6/50) and the occasional ghost (100/50) to EMP and snipe Infestors.

If there is a problem with BL/Inf/Cor or Ultra/bling/inf (or whatever exact mixture of units is best), it is that zerg gets such an army way before Terran and Protoss, which can't switch into their respective "perfect armies" (so armies that don't use marines or marauders or stalkers) easily in the lategame.


Let's imagine a maxed ling bling infestor ultra army. It will kill the terran army (unless the zerg fucks up). The zerg will remax faster, and the terran will lose his expansions. Zerg is maxed and can put more money in his eco. How can the terran ever win???


A maxed ling/bling/infestor/Ultra army gets DESTROYED by a maxed Tank/Thor/Hellion(Ghost) army and can't even fight a maxed BC/Raven force.
If you insist on going bio or biomech against Zerg in the lategame, then you have to avoid big main army engagements at all costs, because the Zerg army is simply stronger, because it is simply way more costly.

Again, I'm not saying that the game is balanced in the lategame, because the transitioning is too hard for Terran and the "timing window" for Broodlords therefore is way to big. (while the same does not hold for Protoss; transitioning into Archons (Warpgatebased) and Mothership (only one needed) is quite OK)


This is not entirely true. BL/Inf/Cor or Ultra/bling/inf will beat Terran on creep with the same supply and even perfect split and perfect positioning of tanks. But when off creep it's true that Terran can beat that zerg late-game composition. You can try that in the unit tester.

But Let's be honest, here is a list the recent zerg champions:

WCS China
WCS Canada
WCS South Amercia
WCS France
WCS UK
WCS Poland
WCS Combined European
WCS USA
WCS New Zealand
WCS Chile


lol....

and the other WCS?


I think there are 3 or 4 protoss, and 2 terran in all other WCS.

Anticipating an all zerg WCS Global. The biggest event in SC2 history and the one that Blizzard plans so long for the goal of promoting SC2. If it's ZvZ all day long, Blizzard's whole point of promoting SC2 will fail miserably.
Toadvine
Profile Joined November 2010
Poland2234 Posts
July 16 2012 01:11 GMT
#5284
On July 16 2012 10:06 larse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2012 09:48 monkybone wrote:
On July 16 2012 09:18 larse wrote:
On July 16 2012 05:40 Big J wrote:
On July 16 2012 05:30 Snowbear wrote:
On July 16 2012 05:04 Big J wrote:
On July 16 2012 04:42 Crying wrote:
you guys are joking right
zerg not cost efficient???

BL/Infestor???

Ling/Ultra/Baneling/Infestor???

You joke right?

And you know that actually if protoss makes air to deal with BLs they die to a fungal?
And if we build colossus the zerg can pop 15corrupturs and NO BLINK can deal but not enoughly good


Cost of Baneling per supply: 100/50
Cost of Broodlord per supply: 75/62,5
Cost of Infestor per supply: 50/75
Cost of Corruptor per supply: 75/50
Cost of Ultralisk per supply: 50/33,3
Cost of Zergling per supply: 50/0

Now let's compare them to what Protoss and Terrans use against them:

Cost of Medivac per supply: 50/50
Cost of Viking per supply: 75/37,5
Cost of Tank per supply: 50/41,6
Cost of Thor per supply: 50/33,3
Cost of Marauder per supply: 50/12.5
Cost of Marine per supply: 50/0


Cost of HT and (HT-) Archon per supply: 25/75
Cost of Mothership per supply: 50/50
Cost of Colossus per supply: 50/33,3
Cost of Immortal per supply: 62,5/25
Cost of Stalker per supply: 62,5/25
Cost of Zealot per supply: 50/0

So no, in even supply the "usual" Zerg endgame army just costs way more (and is therefore not "costefficient") than the "usual" P/T army.
Funny enough, if you start using more and more Archons and a mothership and add in HTs (25/75) for carpet storming and replace stalkers with carriers (75/41,6), Protoss does very well because then they use armies that actually cost a similar amount of minerals and gas.
Similar for Terrans that use Ravens (50/100) and BCs (66,6/50) and the occasional ghost (100/50) to EMP and snipe Infestors.

If there is a problem with BL/Inf/Cor or Ultra/bling/inf (or whatever exact mixture of units is best), it is that zerg gets such an army way before Terran and Protoss, which can't switch into their respective "perfect armies" (so armies that don't use marines or marauders or stalkers) easily in the lategame.


Let's imagine a maxed ling bling infestor ultra army. It will kill the terran army (unless the zerg fucks up). The zerg will remax faster, and the terran will lose his expansions. Zerg is maxed and can put more money in his eco. How can the terran ever win???


A maxed ling/bling/infestor/Ultra army gets DESTROYED by a maxed Tank/Thor/Hellion(Ghost) army and can't even fight a maxed BC/Raven force.
If you insist on going bio or biomech against Zerg in the lategame, then you have to avoid big main army engagements at all costs, because the Zerg army is simply stronger, because it is simply way more costly.

Again, I'm not saying that the game is balanced in the lategame, because the transitioning is too hard for Terran and the "timing window" for Broodlords therefore is way to big. (while the same does not hold for Protoss; transitioning into Archons (Warpgatebased) and Mothership (only one needed) is quite OK)


This is not entirely true. BL/Inf/Cor or Ultra/bling/inf will beat Terran on creep with the same supply and even perfect split and perfect positioning of tanks. But when off creep it's true that Terran can beat that zerg late-game composition. You can try that in the unit tester.

But Let's be honest, here is a list the recent zerg champions:

WCS China
WCS Canada
WCS South Amercia
WCS France
WCS UK
WCS Poland
WCS Combined European
WCS USA
WCS New Zealand
WCS Chile


lol....

and the other WCS?


I think there are 3 or 4 protoss, and 2 terran in all other WCS.

Anticipating an all zerg WCS Global. The biggest event in SC2 history and the one that Blizzard plans so long for the goal of promoting SC2. If it's ZvZ all day long, Blizzard's whole point of promoting SC2 will fain miserably.


I will laugh so hard if it turns out that way. Still, ZvZ is a lot better than it used to be, so it might not be totally awful.
"There are always some Eskimos ready to instruct the Congolese on how to cope with heat waves." - S.J.Lec
Tao367
Profile Joined June 2012
United Kingdom324 Posts
July 16 2012 01:26 GMT
#5285
Zerg really seem dominant atm, Terran relatively up, and protoss slightly more viable but still up to protoss imo, looking at the tournaments in general, about 70% of pvz I've watched have been zerg victories, and the only ones they've lost is when there is some "non-standard" play. This isn't right, and I agree if the WCS finals are ZvZ I will laugh.
CursOr
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States6335 Posts
July 16 2012 01:30 GMT
#5286
Zerg is looking strong but... don't forget
+ Show Spoiler [NASL] +
what MC did to Ret. It just seems ATM protoss has to work a lot harder.
CJ forever (-_-(-_-(-_-(-_-)-_-)-_-)-_-)
Account252508
Profile Joined February 2012
3454 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-16 01:31:34
July 16 2012 01:31 GMT
#5287
--- Nuked ---
SKDN
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden243 Posts
July 16 2012 01:32 GMT
#5288
On July 16 2012 10:30 CursOr wrote:
Zerg is looking strong but... don't forget
+ Show Spoiler [NASL] +
what MC did to Ret. It just seems ATM protoss has to work a lot harder.

But what about terran?
larse
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
1611 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-16 01:37:43
July 16 2012 01:33 GMT
#5289
The problem of PvZ is not the winrate. The winrate is fine. The problem is that Protoss's strategy is always centered on getting that DPS density deathball and try to roll over zerg in that one attack. If the attack fail then it's a gg. Pretty static matchup and there is basically no strategic diversity. It's extremely boring to watch, plus there have been like 1000 PvZ lately. Every matchup is either PvZ or ZvZ.
Die4Ever
Profile Joined August 2010
United States17726 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-16 01:40:12
July 16 2012 01:35 GMT
#5290
On July 16 2012 10:30 CursOr wrote:
Zerg is looking strong but... don't forget
+ Show Spoiler [NASL] +
what MC did to Ret. It just seems ATM protoss has to work a lot harder.

+ Show Spoiler [NASL] +
I'm pretty sure that was just a showcase of a huge skillgap, I honestly think MC was playing better than Stephano yet he lost

and yea Terrans are kinda getting fucked lately lol, sorry guys
"Expert" mods4ever.com
Kluey
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada1197 Posts
July 16 2012 01:35 GMT
#5291
On July 16 2012 10:33 larse wrote:
The problem of PvZ is not the winrate. The winrate is fine. The problem is that Protoss's strategy is always centered on getting that DPS density deathball and try to roll over zerg in that one attack. If the attack fail then it's a gg. Pretty static matchup and there is basically no strategic diversity. It's extremely boring to watch, plus there have been like 1000 PvZ lately. Every matchup is either PvZ or ZvZ.


Yeah, PvZ isn't an imbalanced match-up. It's just really poorly designed. You don't have that many options as a Protoss and everything relies on one big move like a Vortex or Forcefield.
CursOr
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States6335 Posts
July 16 2012 01:37 GMT
#5292
Honestly, I would like to see Blizzard fully revoke a change for once. Just once. Like they say they will if things turn out bad. Leave the speedlords and remove the 5 ground range for queens. That would make them look reasonable, for once.

The funny thing is, that I think part of the reason they did it, is, if you notice the new queens for HOTS have no Antenna for the 3 range attack... they are a sleeker version. No reason that couldn't be a 3 range for ground units- reguardless. I urge Blizzard to consider a 1 change balance patch. Revoke Queen range.
CJ forever (-_-(-_-(-_-(-_-)-_-)-_-)-_-)
larse
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
1611 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-16 01:38:28
July 16 2012 01:37 GMT
#5293
Now the balance situation is even worse than Terran in 2010 and 2011. The Terran domination is most just centered on GSL but not in NA and EU in 2010 and 2011. It's slightly lean to Terran favor in NA and EU in 2010 and 2011, but people obviously exaggerate the Terran domination outside Korea and GSL. Don't forget that MC and Nestea had their best results in 2010 and 2011.
Account252508
Profile Joined February 2012
3454 Posts
July 16 2012 01:39 GMT
#5294
--- Nuked ---
Tao367
Profile Joined June 2012
United Kingdom324 Posts
July 16 2012 01:39 GMT
#5295
On July 16 2012 10:35 Kluey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2012 10:33 larse wrote:
The problem of PvZ is not the winrate. The winrate is fine. The problem is that Protoss's strategy is always centered on getting that DPS density deathball and try to roll over zerg in that one attack. If the attack fail then it's a gg. Pretty static matchup and there is basically no strategic diversity. It's extremely boring to watch, plus there have been like 1000 PvZ lately. Every matchup is either PvZ or ZvZ.


Yeah, PvZ isn't an imbalanced match-up. It's just really poorly designed. You don't have that many options as a Protoss and everything relies on one big move like a Vortex or Forcefield.


I've been saying that for a while, the overall matchup is balanced. Each individual game however is not. It all depends on the protoss' use of ff or vortex. That's literally it. It's especially crippling at lower leagues.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-16 01:44:12
July 16 2012 01:43 GMT
#5296
On July 16 2012 09:18 larse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2012 05:40 Big J wrote:
On July 16 2012 05:30 Snowbear wrote:
On July 16 2012 05:04 Big J wrote:
On July 16 2012 04:42 Crying wrote:
you guys are joking right
zerg not cost efficient???

BL/Infestor???

Ling/Ultra/Baneling/Infestor???

You joke right?

And you know that actually if protoss makes air to deal with BLs they die to a fungal?
And if we build colossus the zerg can pop 15corrupturs and NO BLINK can deal but not enoughly good


Cost of Baneling per supply: 100/50
Cost of Broodlord per supply: 75/62,5
Cost of Infestor per supply: 50/75
Cost of Corruptor per supply: 75/50
Cost of Ultralisk per supply: 50/33,3
Cost of Zergling per supply: 50/0

Now let's compare them to what Protoss and Terrans use against them:

Cost of Medivac per supply: 50/50
Cost of Viking per supply: 75/37,5
Cost of Tank per supply: 50/41,6
Cost of Thor per supply: 50/33,3
Cost of Marauder per supply: 50/12.5
Cost of Marine per supply: 50/0


Cost of HT and (HT-) Archon per supply: 25/75
Cost of Mothership per supply: 50/50
Cost of Colossus per supply: 50/33,3
Cost of Immortal per supply: 62,5/25
Cost of Stalker per supply: 62,5/25
Cost of Zealot per supply: 50/0

So no, in even supply the "usual" Zerg endgame army just costs way more (and is therefore not "costefficient") than the "usual" P/T army.
Funny enough, if you start using more and more Archons and a mothership and add in HTs (25/75) for carpet storming and replace stalkers with carriers (75/41,6), Protoss does very well because then they use armies that actually cost a similar amount of minerals and gas.
Similar for Terrans that use Ravens (50/100) and BCs (66,6/50) and the occasional ghost (100/50) to EMP and snipe Infestors.

If there is a problem with BL/Inf/Cor or Ultra/bling/inf (or whatever exact mixture of units is best), it is that zerg gets such an army way before Terran and Protoss, which can't switch into their respective "perfect armies" (so armies that don't use marines or marauders or stalkers) easily in the lategame.


Let's imagine a maxed ling bling infestor ultra army. It will kill the terran army (unless the zerg fucks up). The zerg will remax faster, and the terran will lose his expansions. Zerg is maxed and can put more money in his eco. How can the terran ever win???


A maxed ling/bling/infestor/Ultra army gets DESTROYED by a maxed Tank/Thor/Hellion(Ghost) army and can't even fight a maxed BC/Raven force.
If you insist on going bio or biomech against Zerg in the lategame, then you have to avoid big main army engagements at all costs, because the Zerg army is simply stronger, because it is simply way more costly.

Again, I'm not saying that the game is balanced in the lategame, because the transitioning is too hard for Terran and the "timing window" for Broodlords therefore is way to big. (while the same does not hold for Protoss; transitioning into Archons (Warpgatebased) and Mothership (only one needed) is quite OK)


This is not entirely true. BL/Inf/Cor or Ultra/bling/inf will beat Terran on creep with the same supply and even perfect split and perfect positioning of tanks. But when off creep it's true that Terran can beat that zerg late-game composition. You can try that in the unit tester.


Yeah, I just did try it and the Thor/Tank composition wins against Ultra/bling/Infestor that sandwitches it open field. Though I forgot to add creep, so it might actually be quite even on creep if zerg can get a full surround.

Setup was
8 Thors
12 tanks

84 supply, 4200minerals/3100gas

8 Ultras
48 banelings
6 Infestors (throwing ITs)
84supply, 5400minerals/3700gas

5Thors, 5Tanks (though 3nearly dead) left over.
http://drop.sc/222629

Though I do agree (and never said differently) that BL/Inf/Cor beats such a composition.
xsnac
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Barbados1365 Posts
July 16 2012 01:48 GMT
#5297
On July 16 2012 10:37 larse wrote:
Now the balance situation is even worse than Terran in 2010 and 2011. The Terran domination is most just centered on GSL but not in NA and EU in 2010 and 2011. It's slightly lean to Terran favor in NA and EU in 2010 and 2011, but people obviously exaggerate the Terran domination outside Korea and GSL. Don't forget that MC and Nestea had their best results in 2010 and 2011.


puma ?any1 ?
1/4 \pi \epsilon_0
Celadan
Profile Joined September 2010
Norway471 Posts
July 16 2012 01:50 GMT
#5298
Why does protoss only need to warpin and A-move? i mean seriously they don't need mechanical skills at ALL!


User was temp banned for this post.
спеціальна Тактика
xsnac
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Barbados1365 Posts
July 16 2012 01:50 GMT
#5299
On July 16 2012 10:43 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2012 09:18 larse wrote:
On July 16 2012 05:40 Big J wrote:
On July 16 2012 05:30 Snowbear wrote:
On July 16 2012 05:04 Big J wrote:
On July 16 2012 04:42 Crying wrote:
you guys are joking right
zerg not cost efficient???

BL/Infestor???

Ling/Ultra/Baneling/Infestor???

You joke right?

And you know that actually if protoss makes air to deal with BLs they die to a fungal?
And if we build colossus the zerg can pop 15corrupturs and NO BLINK can deal but not enoughly good


Cost of Baneling per supply: 100/50
Cost of Broodlord per supply: 75/62,5
Cost of Infestor per supply: 50/75
Cost of Corruptor per supply: 75/50
Cost of Ultralisk per supply: 50/33,3
Cost of Zergling per supply: 50/0

Now let's compare them to what Protoss and Terrans use against them:

Cost of Medivac per supply: 50/50
Cost of Viking per supply: 75/37,5
Cost of Tank per supply: 50/41,6
Cost of Thor per supply: 50/33,3
Cost of Marauder per supply: 50/12.5
Cost of Marine per supply: 50/0


Cost of HT and (HT-) Archon per supply: 25/75
Cost of Mothership per supply: 50/50
Cost of Colossus per supply: 50/33,3
Cost of Immortal per supply: 62,5/25
Cost of Stalker per supply: 62,5/25
Cost of Zealot per supply: 50/0

So no, in even supply the "usual" Zerg endgame army just costs way more (and is therefore not "costefficient") than the "usual" P/T army.
Funny enough, if you start using more and more Archons and a mothership and add in HTs (25/75) for carpet storming and replace stalkers with carriers (75/41,6), Protoss does very well because then they use armies that actually cost a similar amount of minerals and gas.
Similar for Terrans that use Ravens (50/100) and BCs (66,6/50) and the occasional ghost (100/50) to EMP and snipe Infestors.

If there is a problem with BL/Inf/Cor or Ultra/bling/inf (or whatever exact mixture of units is best), it is that zerg gets such an army way before Terran and Protoss, which can't switch into their respective "perfect armies" (so armies that don't use marines or marauders or stalkers) easily in the lategame.


Let's imagine a maxed ling bling infestor ultra army. It will kill the terran army (unless the zerg fucks up). The zerg will remax faster, and the terran will lose his expansions. Zerg is maxed and can put more money in his eco. How can the terran ever win???


A maxed ling/bling/infestor/Ultra army gets DESTROYED by a maxed Tank/Thor/Hellion(Ghost) army and can't even fight a maxed BC/Raven force.
If you insist on going bio or biomech against Zerg in the lategame, then you have to avoid big main army engagements at all costs, because the Zerg army is simply stronger, because it is simply way more costly.

Again, I'm not saying that the game is balanced in the lategame, because the transitioning is too hard for Terran and the "timing window" for Broodlords therefore is way to big. (while the same does not hold for Protoss; transitioning into Archons (Warpgatebased) and Mothership (only one needed) is quite OK)


This is not entirely true. BL/Inf/Cor or Ultra/bling/inf will beat Terran on creep with the same supply and even perfect split and perfect positioning of tanks. But when off creep it's true that Terran can beat that zerg late-game composition. You can try that in the unit tester.


Yeah, I just did try it and the Thor/Tank composition wins against Ultra/bling/Infestor that sandwitches it open field. Though I forgot to add creep, so it might actually be quite even on creep if zerg can get a full surround.

Setup was
8 Thors
12 tanks

84 supply, 4200minerals/3100gas

8 Ultras
48 banelings
6 Infestors (throwing ITs)
84supply, 5400minerals/3700gas

5Thors, 5Tanks (though 3nearly dead) left over.
http://drop.sc/222629

Though I do agree (and never said differently) that BL/Inf/Cor beats such a composition.


i dont see the point of going 48 banelings ?? there is no bio . and baneling die faster then speedlings . go for speedlings instead and see what happens , flank from 2 sides aswel and use creep
1/4 \pi \epsilon_0
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
July 16 2012 01:52 GMT
#5300
On July 16 2012 10:50 xsnac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2012 10:43 Big J wrote:
On July 16 2012 09:18 larse wrote:
On July 16 2012 05:40 Big J wrote:
On July 16 2012 05:30 Snowbear wrote:
On July 16 2012 05:04 Big J wrote:
On July 16 2012 04:42 Crying wrote:
you guys are joking right
zerg not cost efficient???

BL/Infestor???

Ling/Ultra/Baneling/Infestor???

You joke right?

And you know that actually if protoss makes air to deal with BLs they die to a fungal?
And if we build colossus the zerg can pop 15corrupturs and NO BLINK can deal but not enoughly good


Cost of Baneling per supply: 100/50
Cost of Broodlord per supply: 75/62,5
Cost of Infestor per supply: 50/75
Cost of Corruptor per supply: 75/50
Cost of Ultralisk per supply: 50/33,3
Cost of Zergling per supply: 50/0

Now let's compare them to what Protoss and Terrans use against them:

Cost of Medivac per supply: 50/50
Cost of Viking per supply: 75/37,5
Cost of Tank per supply: 50/41,6
Cost of Thor per supply: 50/33,3
Cost of Marauder per supply: 50/12.5
Cost of Marine per supply: 50/0


Cost of HT and (HT-) Archon per supply: 25/75
Cost of Mothership per supply: 50/50
Cost of Colossus per supply: 50/33,3
Cost of Immortal per supply: 62,5/25
Cost of Stalker per supply: 62,5/25
Cost of Zealot per supply: 50/0

So no, in even supply the "usual" Zerg endgame army just costs way more (and is therefore not "costefficient") than the "usual" P/T army.
Funny enough, if you start using more and more Archons and a mothership and add in HTs (25/75) for carpet storming and replace stalkers with carriers (75/41,6), Protoss does very well because then they use armies that actually cost a similar amount of minerals and gas.
Similar for Terrans that use Ravens (50/100) and BCs (66,6/50) and the occasional ghost (100/50) to EMP and snipe Infestors.

If there is a problem with BL/Inf/Cor or Ultra/bling/inf (or whatever exact mixture of units is best), it is that zerg gets such an army way before Terran and Protoss, which can't switch into their respective "perfect armies" (so armies that don't use marines or marauders or stalkers) easily in the lategame.


Let's imagine a maxed ling bling infestor ultra army. It will kill the terran army (unless the zerg fucks up). The zerg will remax faster, and the terran will lose his expansions. Zerg is maxed and can put more money in his eco. How can the terran ever win???


A maxed ling/bling/infestor/Ultra army gets DESTROYED by a maxed Tank/Thor/Hellion(Ghost) army and can't even fight a maxed BC/Raven force.
If you insist on going bio or biomech against Zerg in the lategame, then you have to avoid big main army engagements at all costs, because the Zerg army is simply stronger, because it is simply way more costly.

Again, I'm not saying that the game is balanced in the lategame, because the transitioning is too hard for Terran and the "timing window" for Broodlords therefore is way to big. (while the same does not hold for Protoss; transitioning into Archons (Warpgatebased) and Mothership (only one needed) is quite OK)


This is not entirely true. BL/Inf/Cor or Ultra/bling/inf will beat Terran on creep with the same supply and even perfect split and perfect positioning of tanks. But when off creep it's true that Terran can beat that zerg late-game composition. You can try that in the unit tester.


Yeah, I just did try it and the Thor/Tank composition wins against Ultra/bling/Infestor that sandwitches it open field. Though I forgot to add creep, so it might actually be quite even on creep if zerg can get a full surround.

Setup was
8 Thors
12 tanks

84 supply, 4200minerals/3100gas

8 Ultras
48 banelings
6 Infestors (throwing ITs)
84supply, 5400minerals/3700gas

5Thors, 5Tanks (though 3nearly dead) left over.
http://drop.sc/222629

Though I do agree (and never said differently) that BL/Inf/Cor beats such a composition.


i dont see the point of going 48 banelings ?? there is no bio . and baneling die faster then speedlings . go for speedlings instead and see what happens , flank from 2 sides aswel and use creep


I don't either see the point. It was not my idea to use this composition. But I mean, if we add zerglings and add hellions, the outcome will be just worse for the zerg.
Prev 1 263 264 265 266 267 1266 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
12:00
#77
WardiTV743
OGKoka 280
Rex114
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko389
OGKoka 280
ProTech129
Rex 119
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 49806
Calm 11415
firebathero 3704
Shuttle 759
Hyuk 601
Light 443
Stork 326
Larva 323
Snow 255
Soma 214
[ Show more ]
hero 162
Hyun 155
Leta 134
Soulkey 127
ggaemo 102
JYJ 99
ToSsGirL 83
Aegong 73
sorry 64
Killer 63
Sea.KH 54
Sharp 53
Dewaltoss 42
JulyZerg 38
Hm[arnc] 32
Shine 29
Free 28
Backho 28
[sc1f]eonzerg 28
Nal_rA 23
yabsab 20
GoRush 18
IntoTheRainbow 15
scan(afreeca) 13
910 12
SilentControl 11
Noble 10
Terrorterran 10
NotJumperer 4
Dota 2
Gorgc4521
qojqva363
League of Legends
KnowMe40
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1612
x6flipin425
Other Games
singsing1840
B2W.Neo1047
Liquid`RaSZi995
hiko381
crisheroes263
XaKoH 138
Fuzer 123
QueenE38
ArmadaUGS34
Hui .7
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream7529
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream6993
Other Games
gamesdonequick854
BasetradeTV35
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH121
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1720
• TFBlade722
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Monday
10h 54m
GSL
20h 54m
WardiTV Team League
22h 54m
The PondCast
1d 20h
WardiTV Team League
1d 22h
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
WardiTV Team League
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
[ Show More ]
BSL
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Team League
4 days
BSL
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
WardiTV Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 21: Qualifier #2
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026
BSL Season 22
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Elite League 2026
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
NationLESS Cup
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.