EPTOr rather Blizzard is fine with it so it's a mute point. Toss can still with 2base plays and impeccable control or some lucky lottery vortexes in the late game. The queen change and the scouting OL had minor effects on a matchup that already had serious issues.
Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 267
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Sabu113
United States11112 Posts
Or rather Blizzard is fine with it so it's a mute point. Toss can still with 2base plays and impeccable control or some lucky lottery vortexes in the late game. The queen change and the scouting OL had minor effects on a matchup that already had serious issues. | ||
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darthfoley
United States8004 Posts
On July 16 2012 12:01 ChEDo wrote: As much as I hate whining/complaining about balance. After watching NASL, and looking at GSTL. PvZ is definitely Zerg favoured. It was extremely boring, and dull watching non-stop PvZ, but it was worse seeing the same build over and over again from both sides. Only to see the Zerg reacting nearly the exact same way, and win using the same strat over and over again. Every game was FFE->robo/SG -> all in -> zerg defends -> wins...Its tiring to see nearly every Protoss build get countered by the same reaction, Ling/Roach, constantly. This match up seriously needs to be fixed, every time I play on ladder, its pretty much auto pilot, there is no thinking involved. Its stupidly boring... I can't believe people can say stephano and ret played amazing. I saw the games in person at NASL and I had to bear listening to people, saying stephano/ret played amazing, and people cheer crazily when ret/stephano kills a probe with lings, or get a ling surround. Sure its good, but its nothing special, meanwhile when MC/Alicia/Puzzle/Hero did sick force fields/incredible multitasking/trades. The cheer was not even 10% of what it was for the zergs. I know its the whole foreigner/fan favourtie thing, but still. Also I know this should be in NASL discussion thread. Its just really stupid seeing every protoss builds get stopped by the exact same zerg build. I can't imagine anyone saying that its not dumb/boring seeing the same build/results happen over and over again. The only time zerg lost was when they made mistakes, or got caught by some gimmck, or vortex... Players should not have to hope that their opponent makes a mistake to win. I agree vortex is op/broken/imba/stupid but without it how do you beat Broodlord, Infestor? i'll take a wild guess and say you play protoss. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On July 16 2012 12:45 darthfoley wrote: i'll take a wild guess and say you play protoss. So what if he does? He's still correct. | ||
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Pato
Argentina67 Posts
All low mid players are defeating mid, high tier players just bcuz of patch. Lot of uknown players came to the spotlight since the patch. And blizzard STILL don't do anything. I honestly don't know what are they waiting.. | ||
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BlindKill
Australia1508 Posts
If the next patch is some retarded bullshit like mutalisk buff cause they are underused I literally quit sc2 and try out other RTS Need to nerf infestors like make it microable or shoot a ball of fungal to be dodgeable | ||
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darthfoley
United States8004 Posts
because his post is incredibly biased and just sounds like balance whine. i don't mind discussion but it seems to me that his post was too whiny. i think his points are interesting though, just not the way he presented them. | ||
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Instigata
United States546 Posts
Blizzard ran starcraft into the ground. The scene is DOMINATED by LoL and even took over in Korea which I thought would never be possible. Goodjob Bizz and Dustin, when DOTA 2 comes out starcraft will fall even further. | ||
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gormanuyai
United States2 Posts
increase tank damage. not exactly sure how. straight up or versus light or whatever. / little effect on TvP. TvT may revert to tank wars again, if you ever felt it got out of it.... some sort of boost to zealot or stalker. maybe an armor boost upgrade for zealot ala chitnous for ultralisk. not really sure of anything for stalker.... sides making it the raiding unit it wants to be / increase dps though attack speed and cut shields by a portion. / the tanklots could be terrible for terran..... the raiding stalker could be very powerful. /other idea - put both templar techs back in same building. make research required for either templar. making it less obvious which templar you went. Loss of awesome looking unit would make me sadface. | ||
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ChEDo
Canada310 Posts
On July 16 2012 12:52 darthfoley wrote: because his post is incredibly biased and just sounds like balance whine. i don't mind discussion but it seems to me that his post was too whiny. i think his points are interesting though, just not the way he presented them. After reading it over, I guess it does sound whiny and not much like discussion, also I am terrible at presenting/writing sry | ||
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baba1
Canada355 Posts
Then 'Slayer_Boxer' arrived. Just saying ! | ||
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Cracked
41 Posts
Noone believed them then. Now that 3 hatch strategies are far more refined, it's interesting to see the "clueless" blizzard designers being absolutely right. Now this isn't to say that rocks on the 3rd is the best solution to this issue, but their original intent with the rocks was correct. | ||
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
I think it's time for the community to seriously consider that macro mechanics break the game. They make it too volatile, comebacks are nearly impossible if you play things right. The build up happens so fast, that turtling is encouraged prior to maxing. They discourage scouting because the mechanics allow for huge sweeping strategic shifts with little to no risk/investment for the player changing their mind (EG chrono, larvae, add-on). Granted, SC2 has game design, unit design, and map design issues as well, but macro seems the most pertinent at this point, and we have to start somewhere. It was a valiant effort to add depth to SC2, but in the end if the effect is this severe and negative, I think they should be removed. On July 16 2012 13:13 Cracked wrote: Now this isn't to say that rocks on the 3rd is the best solution to this issue, but their original intent with the rocks was correct. What's sad is that they thought such a band-aid solution would fix such a fundamental problem. | ||
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whatevername
471 Posts
On July 16 2012 12:46 Pato wrote: Name me one.Zerg is a joke atm. All low mid players are defeating mid, high tier players just bcuz of patch. Lot of uknown players came to the spotlight since the patch. And blizzard STILL don't do anything. I honestly don't know what are they waiting.. | ||
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TitleRug
United States651 Posts
On July 16 2012 13:13 Cracked wrote: I do think it's somewhat amusing that a year or two ago, David Kim/Dustin Browder kept insisting that not having rocks at the 3rd would make zerg incredibly overpowered. Noone believed them then. Now that 3 hatch strategies are far more refined, it's interesting to see the "clueless" blizzard designers being absolutely right. Now this isn't to say that rocks on the 3rd is the best solution to this issue, but their original intent with the rocks was correct. I was thinking this exactly. I doubt there will be any patches until HoTS so nothing will change. I think tournaments should revert back to old maps with rocks at 3rds if things get worse. | ||
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TitleRug
United States651 Posts
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Pato
Argentina67 Posts
On July 16 2012 13:07 baba1 wrote: I remember a time when everyone felt that Zergs were way too strong. That was a looong time ago. Then 'Slayer_Boxer' arrived. Just saying ! wake up and see reality lol | ||
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oZe
Sweden492 Posts
I'll wager some money that you also play protoss ^^ | ||
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Pato
Argentina67 Posts
dont u think it would be agressive to give examples? see zerg domination @ ladder, cw, touraments and all permormances. I dunno how ppl still tries to deny all this. | ||
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iky43210
United States2099 Posts
On July 16 2012 13:13 Cracked wrote: I do think it's somewhat amusing that a year or two ago, David Kim/Dustin Browder kept insisting that not having rocks at the 3rd would make zerg incredibly overpowered. Noone believed them then. Now that 3 hatch strategies are far more refined, it's interesting to see the "clueless" blizzard designers being absolutely right. Now this isn't to say that rocks on the 3rd is the best solution to this issue, but their original intent with the rocks was correct. I wouldn't mind them adding rocks at every 3rd in ladder maps, at least as a bandaid fix. Would prevent those ridiculous 5-6 minute 3rd hatch that you can't stop out of needing to all-in (exception to few maps, such as one with rocks in between bases) | ||
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
On July 16 2012 13:13 Cracked wrote: I do think it's somewhat amusing that a year or two ago, David Kim/Dustin Browder kept insisting that not having rocks at the 3rd would make zerg incredibly overpowered. Noone believed them then. Now that 3 hatch strategies are far more refined, it's interesting to see the "clueless" blizzard designers being absolutely right. Now this isn't to say that rocks on the 3rd is the best solution to this issue, but their original intent with the rocks was correct. I completely forgot about that....hmm....that would be an interesting solution Me and my friend (master Terran) debate on what would actually help the current state of the game. (Im protoss btw) We thought this could be an interesting switch up Put seeker missle on the ghost and Emp on Raven What this does for: TvZ gives some kind of earlier defense verse baneling/whatever unit play. Instead of Terran relying on awesome marine splits and perfectly position tanks. A seeker missle could shift the pressure back to zerg. Obviously there would have to be a bit more stat changes to be usuable and not op at the same time TvP It would be used to take out heavy templar tech. It would encourage less deathball ish play as to avoid being clumped and eating a couple seekermissles. Only problem would be cloaked ghost shooting seeker missles. It could be very very powerful. Emp being on a Raven would give emps a lot easier time to get into position to EMP. and it would help raven to counter templar feedback. Again this is something that is highly debated between me and him and we both see many pro's and cons of this change. Our main interest was to give terran a cheaper aoe to deal with zerg | ||
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