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On August 14 2011 09:44 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 09:43 Redmark wrote:
If the NASL folks are saying that they have no idea what's going on in Korea I don't see why posters here act like they do. Just wait for more information to come out instead of pretending your opinions have any basis. It doesn't matter what they call themselves. NASL might not know if they're dealing with sc2con or just the teams... but it doesn't change what has already happened, which is what people are upset about. I don't think anybody gives 2 shit whether it was sc2con or the teams banding together to make this decision, the results are the same. The only thing that it changes is the idea of them blocking sc/mvp, but that's still a sidestory as far as I'm concerned.
I'm not sure where your sense of entitlement to something is coming from. If the koreans are to participate in the NASL, they have to go through countless games and stay up til 3-4 in the morning. Then play the matches 1-2 more hours. Staying up that late may influence your performance in the GSTL and GSL (which are more important to them). They aren't even guaranteed to make it to the grand finals and to be at the finals you'd have to pay out of your own pocket initially and there aren't any guarantees that you'd make any money. NASL season is super long and the payoff for just being in Grand Finals (if you make it) aren't that great unless you get into Ro4 or something like that.
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On August 14 2011 09:50 SimDawg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 09:44 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 14 2011 09:43 Redmark wrote:
If the NASL folks are saying that they have no idea what's going on in Korea I don't see why posters here act like they do. Just wait for more information to come out instead of pretending your opinions have any basis. It doesn't matter what they call themselves. NASL might not know if they're dealing with sc2con or just the teams... but it doesn't change what has already happened, which is what people are upset about. I don't think anybody gives 2 shit whether it was sc2con or the teams banding together to make this decision, the results are the same. The only thing that it changes is the idea of them blocking sc/mvp, but that's still a sidestory as far as I'm concerned. I think its a pretty big deal whether other teams are getting blocked. I mean if some Koreans play its basically free money without the competition for those players. At the amount of money we're talking I can't imagine the players being okay with FXO/MvP players just getting the shot at 100 grand each season. And if they are, fine. We'll still see great games, there will be a good number of top Koreans and foreigners participating. It will be to the detriment of those teams. If ALL of Korea is blocked, then its just the spectators that lose
What I mean is that whether or not sc2con is blocking other teams from participating isn't where this started. It is a new, and fairly important story if it's true. But, that's not what this was originally about, which is where my original post goes back to.
I don't need to know whether it was sc2con or just the teams as a whole who decided to fuck the NASL, because they handled it extremely poorly, regardless of what they call themselves.
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On August 14 2011 09:52 babylon wrote:
Conclusion: Anything involving SC2Con will be convoluted as fuck.
Do they really just read the rules before the GSTL matches?
I have not been able to get ONE person in Korea to explain what they do besides that. So while I'm being a bit sarcastic, it's only because I have looked in SC2CON and found nothing, the argument is always "well it's free to the teams."
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TC should post NASL's full statement from page 2 and not just the beginning part in the original post. Seems very bias from the TC to not post the whole thing, that includes why it's still confusing and the apology.
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On August 14 2011 09:53 nitdkim wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 09:44 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 14 2011 09:43 Redmark wrote:
If the NASL folks are saying that they have no idea what's going on in Korea I don't see why posters here act like they do. Just wait for more information to come out instead of pretending your opinions have any basis. It doesn't matter what they call themselves. NASL might not know if they're dealing with sc2con or just the teams... but it doesn't change what has already happened, which is what people are upset about. I don't think anybody gives 2 shit whether it was sc2con or the teams banding together to make this decision, the results are the same. The only thing that it changes is the idea of them blocking sc/mvp, but that's still a sidestory as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure where your sense of entitlement to something is coming from. If the koreans are to participate in the NASL, they have to go through countless games and stay up til 3-4 in the morning. Staying up that late may influence your performance in the GSTL and GSL (which are more important to them). They aren't even guaranteed to make it to the grand finals and to be at the finals you'd have to pay out of your own pocket initially and there aren't any guarantees that you'd make any money. NASL season is super long and the payoff for just being in Grand Finals (if you make it) aren't that great unless you get into Ro4 or something like that.
Do you have any idea what you're talking about? They all agreed to these rules weeks ago. And then they waited until it had already started to begin making demands.
That's not incredibly fucked up to you? We can all agree the Koreans have a harder time given the playtime, lag, etc... but they agreed to it only to then go back on their word.
edit: i also have absolutely no idea where a sense of entitlement would come from my post. I don't think it means what you think it means.
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On August 14 2011 09:49 whateverpeeps wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 09:45 Defacer wrote:
FXOBoss or anyone else,
What are the benefits of dealing with SC2Con, exactly? And what do they actually do as a governing organization?
Do they have a board of governors?
A charter of player's rights?
Do they offer health insurance?
Are they financially liable in anyway?
I'm not being facetious. Most union's or independent organizations actually do something or have so kind of mission or agenda. What is theirs?
Sadly I don't think you're going to get much information. I think the worst part of all of this is that I feel like the people involved, meaning the players and teams like FXO and MVP, are too intimidated to speak openly about the issue because they don't want to be the odd one out. I just can't put my head around why it matters so much. Where does SC2Con get all of this power and influence from?
It is a Asian thing. The collective is always more important than the individual. If the collective decides the indivudal follows suit. While this condradicts FXOBoss view as a Westerner, he has to take into account that the FXO guys are Koreans and cannot easily go against the other Koreans.
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On August 14 2011 09:47 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 09:45 Defacer wrote:
FXOBoss or anyone else,
What are the benefits of dealing with SC2Con, exactly? And what do they actually do as a governing organization?
Do they have a board of governors?
A charter of player's rights?
Do they offer health insurance?
Are they financially liable in anyway?
I'm not being facetious. Most union's or independent organizations actually do something or have so kind of mission or agenda. What is theirs?
And finally the correct question has been asked! Answer: + Show Spoiler +They read the rules to the coaches before GTSL matches
It's funny because Boss was saying how he would talk to sc2con to try and get them to allow sC to play and if they wouldn't the decision would be up to sC whether he wanted to play or not and if he did sC would play. Pretty much shows that sc2con is a joke.
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Note, I wanted to fix the translation a bit. The post by S2CON does NOT say that they had nothing to do with the decision. Basically they just say it simply say that it didn't not happen under their supervision (i.e., was not an officail S2CON decision, etc.).
It may sound a bit like semantics, but if S2CON has a board separate from the teams themselves or even teams that are a part of S2CON but were not participating in NASL from the beginning, then you can understand why they might want to put a little distance between themselves and this issue.
Of course, it still doesn't answer any questions other than to let us know that the teams that were involved in the withdrawal are indeed preparing a statement.
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On August 14 2011 09:55 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 09:53 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 09:44 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 14 2011 09:43 Redmark wrote:
If the NASL folks are saying that they have no idea what's going on in Korea I don't see why posters here act like they do. Just wait for more information to come out instead of pretending your opinions have any basis. It doesn't matter what they call themselves. NASL might not know if they're dealing with sc2con or just the teams... but it doesn't change what has already happened, which is what people are upset about. I don't think anybody gives 2 shit whether it was sc2con or the teams banding together to make this decision, the results are the same. The only thing that it changes is the idea of them blocking sc/mvp, but that's still a sidestory as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure where your sense of entitlement to something is coming from. If the koreans are to participate in the NASL, they have to go through countless games and stay up til 3-4 in the morning. Staying up that late may influence your performance in the GSTL and GSL (which are more important to them). They aren't even guaranteed to make it to the grand finals and to be at the finals you'd have to pay out of your own pocket initially and there aren't any guarantees that you'd make any money. NASL season is super long and the payoff for just being in Grand Finals (if you make it) aren't that great unless you get into Ro4 or something like that. Do you have any idea what you're talking about? They all agreed to these rules weeks ago. And then they waited until it had already started to begin making demands. That's not incredibly fucked up to you? We can all agree the Koreans have a harder time given the playtime, lag, etc... but they agreed to it only to then go back on their word. edit: i also have absolutely no idea where a sense of entitlement would come from my post. I don't think it means what you think it means.
If anyone from NASL can post the contract that the teams signed, that would be appreciated and would probably clear this whole mess up instantly.
But until said contract or details are posted... I don't know if the contract bound the teams to participate in the NASL after qualifying. It might have just been a rules and code of conduct spiel for all I know or it could have said "If you sign this you name your first child Russell".
Kinda have to reserve judgement when it comes to the whole contract debate. Afterall, its common place in starcraft to withdraw / decline a tournament spot after qualifications.
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On August 14 2011 09:53 nitdkim wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 09:44 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 14 2011 09:43 Redmark wrote:
If the NASL folks are saying that they have no idea what's going on in Korea I don't see why posters here act like they do. Just wait for more information to come out instead of pretending your opinions have any basis. It doesn't matter what they call themselves. NASL might not know if they're dealing with sc2con or just the teams... but it doesn't change what has already happened, which is what people are upset about. I don't think anybody gives 2 shit whether it was sc2con or the teams banding together to make this decision, the results are the same. The only thing that it changes is the idea of them blocking sc/mvp, but that's still a sidestory as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure where your sense of entitlement to something is coming from. If the koreans are to participate in the NASL, they have to go through countless games and stay up til 3-4 in the morning. Then play the matches 1-2 more hours. Staying up that late may influence your performance in the GSTL and GSL (which are more important to them). They aren't even guaranteed to make it to the grand finals and to be at the finals you'd have to pay out of your own pocket initially and there aren't any guarantees that you'd make any money. NASL season is super long and the payoff for just being in Grand Finals (if you make it) aren't that great unless you get into Ro4 or something like that.
This is the reason that people are up in arms about the situation
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253928¤tpage=18#345
If all the reason you listed made the Koreans hesitant to participate then why did they sign the contracts?
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On August 14 2011 09:57 JSy wrote:
Note, I wanted to fix the translation a bit. The post by S2CON does NOT say that they had nothing to do with the decision. Basically they just say it simply say that it didn't not happen under their supervision (i.e., was not an officail S2CON decision, etc.).
It may sound a bit like semantics, but if S2CON has a board separate from the teams themselves or even teams that are a part of S2CON but were not participating in NASL from the beginning, then you can understand why they might want to put a little distance between themselves and this issue.
Of course, it still doesn't answer any questions other than to let us know that the teams that were involved in the withdrawal are indeed preparing a statement.
So pretty much it is sc2con trying to save face as they have looked like shit recently.
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On August 14 2011 09:55 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 09:53 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 09:44 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 14 2011 09:43 Redmark wrote:
If the NASL folks are saying that they have no idea what's going on in Korea I don't see why posters here act like they do. Just wait for more information to come out instead of pretending your opinions have any basis. It doesn't matter what they call themselves. NASL might not know if they're dealing with sc2con or just the teams... but it doesn't change what has already happened, which is what people are upset about. I don't think anybody gives 2 shit whether it was sc2con or the teams banding together to make this decision, the results are the same. The only thing that it changes is the idea of them blocking sc/mvp, but that's still a sidestory as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure where your sense of entitlement to something is coming from. If the koreans are to participate in the NASL, they have to go through countless games and stay up til 3-4 in the morning. Staying up that late may influence your performance in the GSTL and GSL (which are more important to them). They aren't even guaranteed to make it to the grand finals and to be at the finals you'd have to pay out of your own pocket initially and there aren't any guarantees that you'd make any money. NASL season is super long and the payoff for just being in Grand Finals (if you make it) aren't that great unless you get into Ro4 or something like that. Do you have any idea what you're talking about? They all agreed to these rules weeks ago. And then they waited until it had already started to begin making demands. That's not incredibly fucked up to you? We can all agree the Koreans have a harder time given the playtime, lag, etc... but they agreed to it only to then go back on their word. edit: i also have absolutely no idea where a sense of entitlement would come from my post. I don't think it means what you think it means.
True, the part about them falling back on their words is very fucked up of them. But upon review, teams may have realized that NASL is not best for the team so they just decided not to participate. You can hate them for that but it's not a decision that's necessarily wrong. If they found the terms to be bad for the team and the players, even if it was late, I think I can understand why they'd go back on their word. Not that I support their action.
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EDIT: nvm, misread the question
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On August 14 2011 09:57 JSy wrote:
Note, I wanted to fix the translation a bit. The post by S2CON does NOT say that they had nothing to do with the decision. Basically they just say it simply say that it didn't not happen under their supervision (i.e., was not an officail S2CON decision, etc.).
It may sound a bit like semantics, but if S2CON has a board separate from the teams themselves or even teams that are a part of S2CON but were not participating in NASL from the beginning, then you can understand why they might want to put a little distance between themselves and this issue.
Of course, it still doesn't answer any questions other than to let us know that the teams that were involved in the withdrawal are indeed preparing a statement.
OP, can you edit the original post to include the entire NASL response?
I think the fact that SC2Con is actively blocking FXO and MVP from participating should be noted, otherwise people may get the wrong idea.
Even after the original translation, people already started to say NASL was purposefully lying, when it doesn't appear to be that.
It would cut down on alot of pointless posts of a person who didn't get to the third page screaming about how NASL are liars, and then 5 people correcting them.
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On August 14 2011 09:52 Blitz Beat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 09:50 Defacer wrote:On August 14 2011 09:47 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On August 14 2011 09:45 Defacer wrote:
FXOBoss or anyone else,
What are the benefits of dealing with SC2Con, exactly? And what do they actually do as a governing organization?
Do they have a board of governors?
A charter of player's rights?
Do they offer health insurance?
Are they financially liable in anyway?
I'm not being facetious. Most union's or independent organizations actually do something or have so kind of mission or agenda. What is theirs?
And finally the correct question has been asked! Answer: + Show Spoiler +They read the rules to the coaches before GTSL matches Are you fucking shitting me? LOL. Well, that's something. I thought SC2CON was a union made by the players, coaches, and managers. Where they try to establish guidelines on player working conditions, conflicts among teams, and stuff like that.
I think that is the intent, but this is what I imagine.
I suspect SC2Con, in actuality, is a small group of 'insiders' or greybeards from the Broodwar days comprised mainly of Team Managers and Coaches, that conspire together and force collusion and conformity between the teams. While they occasionally look out for player rights, they actually limit their opportunities and mobility, enforce working conditions only tolerable in Asian countries, and in general, have no formal process for selecting leaders or making decision.
FXOBoss or anyone else in the know: is this a fair assumption or completely off-base?
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On August 14 2011 10:01 whateverpeeps wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 09:57 Blitz Beat wrote:On August 14 2011 09:55 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 14 2011 09:53 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 09:44 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 14 2011 09:43 Redmark wrote:
If the NASL folks are saying that they have no idea what's going on in Korea I don't see why posters here act like they do. Just wait for more information to come out instead of pretending your opinions have any basis. It doesn't matter what they call themselves. NASL might not know if they're dealing with sc2con or just the teams... but it doesn't change what has already happened, which is what people are upset about. I don't think anybody gives 2 shit whether it was sc2con or the teams banding together to make this decision, the results are the same. The only thing that it changes is the idea of them blocking sc/mvp, but that's still a sidestory as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure where your sense of entitlement to something is coming from. If the koreans are to participate in the NASL, they have to go through countless games and stay up til 3-4 in the morning. Staying up that late may influence your performance in the GSTL and GSL (which are more important to them). They aren't even guaranteed to make it to the grand finals and to be at the finals you'd have to pay out of your own pocket initially and there aren't any guarantees that you'd make any money. NASL season is super long and the payoff for just being in Grand Finals (if you make it) aren't that great unless you get into Ro4 or something like that. Do you have any idea what you're talking about? They all agreed to these rules weeks ago. And then they waited until it had already started to begin making demands. That's not incredibly fucked up to you? We can all agree the Koreans have a harder time given the playtime, lag, etc... but they agreed to it only to then go back on their word. edit: i also have absolutely no idea where a sense of entitlement would come from my post. I don't think it means what you think it means. If anyone from NASL can post the contract that the teams signed, that would be appreciated and would probably clear this whole mess up instantly. But until said contract or details are posted... I don't know if the contract bound the teams to participate in the NASL after qualifying. It might have just been a rules and code of conduct spiel for all I know or it could have said "If you sign this you name your first child Russell". Kinda have to reserve judgement when it comes to the whole contract debate. NASL stated somewhere, I think the TIG thread, a list of teams and the dates that they signed their Season 2 contracts.
Dates don't mean much. Neither does the fact that the teams signed a contract. Its what the contract includes and details that is relevant. If the contract says "you can participate since you qualified", then its NASL's fault since they made participation optional. If the contract says "you must participate or be liable to any monetary damages and costs" then its the teams fault. Wording is important, especially since NASL put their whole argument in this one basket of "we have a contract". Doesn't mean anything if the contract is worthless.
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On August 14 2011 10:01 nitdkim wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 09:55 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 14 2011 09:53 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 09:44 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 14 2011 09:43 Redmark wrote:
If the NASL folks are saying that they have no idea what's going on in Korea I don't see why posters here act like they do. Just wait for more information to come out instead of pretending your opinions have any basis. It doesn't matter what they call themselves. NASL might not know if they're dealing with sc2con or just the teams... but it doesn't change what has already happened, which is what people are upset about. I don't think anybody gives 2 shit whether it was sc2con or the teams banding together to make this decision, the results are the same. The only thing that it changes is the idea of them blocking sc/mvp, but that's still a sidestory as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure where your sense of entitlement to something is coming from. If the koreans are to participate in the NASL, they have to go through countless games and stay up til 3-4 in the morning. Staying up that late may influence your performance in the GSTL and GSL (which are more important to them). They aren't even guaranteed to make it to the grand finals and to be at the finals you'd have to pay out of your own pocket initially and there aren't any guarantees that you'd make any money. NASL season is super long and the payoff for just being in Grand Finals (if you make it) aren't that great unless you get into Ro4 or something like that. Do you have any idea what you're talking about? They all agreed to these rules weeks ago. And then they waited until it had already started to begin making demands. That's not incredibly fucked up to you? We can all agree the Koreans have a harder time given the playtime, lag, etc... but they agreed to it only to then go back on their word. edit: i also have absolutely no idea where a sense of entitlement would come from my post. I don't think it means what you think it means. True, the part about them falling back on their words is very fucked up of them. But upon review, teams may have realized that NASL is not best for the team so they just decided not to participate. You can hate them for that but it's not a decision that's necessarily wrong. If they found the terms to be bad for the team and the players, even if it was late, I think I can understand why they'd go back on their word. Not that I support their action.
It is wrong because they committed to NASL and then broke the contract. I don't get how they like the terms and then ten days later don't like the terms and demand change and money. And if its about the terms so much, how come they didn't ask for matches to be played at different times or on the KR server? They only asked for money.
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On August 14 2011 10:04 Blitz Beat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 10:01 whateverpeeps wrote:On August 14 2011 09:57 Blitz Beat wrote:On August 14 2011 09:55 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 14 2011 09:53 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 09:44 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 14 2011 09:43 Redmark wrote:
If the NASL folks are saying that they have no idea what's going on in Korea I don't see why posters here act like they do. Just wait for more information to come out instead of pretending your opinions have any basis. It doesn't matter what they call themselves. NASL might not know if they're dealing with sc2con or just the teams... but it doesn't change what has already happened, which is what people are upset about. I don't think anybody gives 2 shit whether it was sc2con or the teams banding together to make this decision, the results are the same. The only thing that it changes is the idea of them blocking sc/mvp, but that's still a sidestory as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure where your sense of entitlement to something is coming from. If the koreans are to participate in the NASL, they have to go through countless games and stay up til 3-4 in the morning. Staying up that late may influence your performance in the GSTL and GSL (which are more important to them). They aren't even guaranteed to make it to the grand finals and to be at the finals you'd have to pay out of your own pocket initially and there aren't any guarantees that you'd make any money. NASL season is super long and the payoff for just being in Grand Finals (if you make it) aren't that great unless you get into Ro4 or something like that. Do you have any idea what you're talking about? They all agreed to these rules weeks ago. And then they waited until it had already started to begin making demands. That's not incredibly fucked up to you? We can all agree the Koreans have a harder time given the playtime, lag, etc... but they agreed to it only to then go back on their word. edit: i also have absolutely no idea where a sense of entitlement would come from my post. I don't think it means what you think it means. If anyone from NASL can post the contract that the teams signed, that would be appreciated and would probably clear this whole mess up instantly. But until said contract or details are posted... I don't know if the contract bound the teams to participate in the NASL after qualifying. It might have just been a rules and code of conduct spiel for all I know or it could have said "If you sign this you name your first child Russell". Kinda have to reserve judgement when it comes to the whole contract debate. NASL stated somewhere, I think the TIG thread, a list of teams and the dates that they signed their Season 2 contracts. Dates don't mean much. Neither does the fact that the teams signed a contract. Its what the contract includes and details that is relevant. If the contract says "you can participate since you qualified", then its NASL's fault since they made participation optional. If the contract says "you must participate or be liable to any monetary damages and costs" then its the teams fault. Wording is important, especially since NASL put their whole argument in this one basket of "we have a contract". Doesn't mean anything if the contract is worthless.
It would be kind of a blunder on NASL's part if their contract was worded like "If you decide to participate, you would be agreeing to the following terms: !@%$^@$&#&#&#&#&#&#&3&"
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Puma: Not contracted to TSL, wants to join EG, Puma immoral person.
SC2Con/Group of Korean teams/Who the hell even knows anymore: Signs contract, makes unreasonable demands, has unreasonable demands met, breaches contract anyways.
And... they think that's ok? They think that's an ok thing to do? What the fuck?
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On August 14 2011 10:04 Blitz Beat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 10:01 whateverpeeps wrote:On August 14 2011 09:57 Blitz Beat wrote:On August 14 2011 09:55 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 14 2011 09:53 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 09:44 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 14 2011 09:43 Redmark wrote:
If the NASL folks are saying that they have no idea what's going on in Korea I don't see why posters here act like they do. Just wait for more information to come out instead of pretending your opinions have any basis. It doesn't matter what they call themselves. NASL might not know if they're dealing with sc2con or just the teams... but it doesn't change what has already happened, which is what people are upset about. I don't think anybody gives 2 shit whether it was sc2con or the teams banding together to make this decision, the results are the same. The only thing that it changes is the idea of them blocking sc/mvp, but that's still a sidestory as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure where your sense of entitlement to something is coming from. If the koreans are to participate in the NASL, they have to go through countless games and stay up til 3-4 in the morning. Staying up that late may influence your performance in the GSTL and GSL (which are more important to them). They aren't even guaranteed to make it to the grand finals and to be at the finals you'd have to pay out of your own pocket initially and there aren't any guarantees that you'd make any money. NASL season is super long and the payoff for just being in Grand Finals (if you make it) aren't that great unless you get into Ro4 or something like that. Do you have any idea what you're talking about? They all agreed to these rules weeks ago. And then they waited until it had already started to begin making demands. That's not incredibly fucked up to you? We can all agree the Koreans have a harder time given the playtime, lag, etc... but they agreed to it only to then go back on their word. edit: i also have absolutely no idea where a sense of entitlement would come from my post. I don't think it means what you think it means. If anyone from NASL can post the contract that the teams signed, that would be appreciated and would probably clear this whole mess up instantly. But until said contract or details are posted... I don't know if the contract bound the teams to participate in the NASL after qualifying. It might have just been a rules and code of conduct spiel for all I know or it could have said "If you sign this you name your first child Russell". Kinda have to reserve judgement when it comes to the whole contract debate. NASL stated somewhere, I think the TIG thread, a list of teams and the dates that they signed their Season 2 contracts. Dates don't mean much. Neither does the fact that the teams signed a contract. Its what the contract includes and details that is relevant. If the contract says "you can participate since you qualified", then its NASL's fault since they made participation optional. If the contract says "you must participate or be liable to any monetary damages and costs" then its the teams fault. Wording is important, especially since NASL put their whole argument in this one basket of "we have a contract". Doesn't mean anything if the contract is worthless.
I think your selling the NASL short on this one. I highly doubt they would have such terrible contracts. Russ seems like a very smart guy and I doubt he would allow that to happen.
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EPT
