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On August 14 2011 10:47 Slider954 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 10:46 JoeSchmoe wrote:On August 14 2011 10:17 whateverpeeps wrote:On August 14 2011 10:11 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 10:06 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 14 2011 10:01 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 09:55 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 14 2011 09:53 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 09:44 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 14 2011 09:43 Redmark wrote:
If the NASL folks are saying that they have no idea what's going on in Korea I don't see why posters here act like they do. Just wait for more information to come out instead of pretending your opinions have any basis. It doesn't matter what they call themselves. NASL might not know if they're dealing with sc2con or just the teams... but it doesn't change what has already happened, which is what people are upset about. I don't think anybody gives 2 shit whether it was sc2con or the teams banding together to make this decision, the results are the same. The only thing that it changes is the idea of them blocking sc/mvp, but that's still a sidestory as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure where your sense of entitlement to something is coming from. If the koreans are to participate in the NASL, they have to go through countless games and stay up til 3-4 in the morning. Staying up that late may influence your performance in the GSTL and GSL (which are more important to them). They aren't even guaranteed to make it to the grand finals and to be at the finals you'd have to pay out of your own pocket initially and there aren't any guarantees that you'd make any money. NASL season is super long and the payoff for just being in Grand Finals (if you make it) aren't that great unless you get into Ro4 or something like that. Do you have any idea what you're talking about? They all agreed to these rules weeks ago. And then they waited until it had already started to begin making demands. That's not incredibly fucked up to you? We can all agree the Koreans have a harder time given the playtime, lag, etc... but they agreed to it only to then go back on their word. edit: i also have absolutely no idea where a sense of entitlement would come from my post. I don't think it means what you think it means. True, the part about them falling back on their words is very fucked up of them. But upon review, teams may have realized that NASL is not best for the team so they just decided not to participate. You can hate them for that but it's not a decision that's necessarily wrong. If they found the terms to be bad for the team and the players, even if it was late, I think I can understand why they'd go back on their word. Not that I support their action. It is wrong because they committed to NASL and then broke the contract. I don't get how they like the terms and then ten days later don't like the terms and demand change and money. And if its about the terms so much, how come they didn't ask for matches to be played at different times or on the KR server? They only asked for money. Money is the biggest issue. They can't really negotiate the time zones since NASL has a studio in NA and it's a live recording. The teams either can't afford to send out their players or they think that it's not worth the money to send out the players. Koreans wanted NASL to pay them more and NASL can't afford to pay more. White-Ra paid his ticket out of pocket, got eliminated in the first round at the finals, and still is happily returning to Season 2. NASL has conceded a lot of things for the Koreans. They DID actually change the times, from what NASL said, for season 2, and are allowing Koreans to play on Korean server when it's KvK. They didn't do that for EU players, and yet, it is still the Koreans that are asking for more? I think NASL has done enough, tbh. I respect the Korean' teams decision to not participate (if it is even their decision...it certainly isn't FXO's or MVP's). But I think they should have stated it in a timely manner, not signed a contract, complain, and demand more money and special privileges than they were already given. I love watching Korean players play, but, I think it is time that Korean management learns that the rest of the world can't jump through hoops for them. In a way, they are mostly hurting themselves over this rather than getting anything out of it. What exactly do they get out of not being in NASL? Nothing really. white-ra is sponsored by Tt Esports. Now he is, I believe at that time he wasn't, not sure though.
Just because white-ra can afford to come doesn't mean that everyone else in korea should be able to. The situations are quite different. White-ra was sponsored by duckload and thermal take during the duration of NASL. a korean gamer is basically sponsored by his team. I think most teams are given a set amount of money from the sponsors in the korean scene since most of the costs are cost of living. Foreign scene wasn't considered as much just up until recently.
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On August 14 2011 10:51 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 10:46 JoeSchmoe wrote:On August 14 2011 10:17 whateverpeeps wrote:On August 14 2011 10:11 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 10:06 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 14 2011 10:01 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 09:55 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 14 2011 09:53 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 09:44 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 14 2011 09:43 Redmark wrote:
If the NASL folks are saying that they have no idea what's going on in Korea I don't see why posters here act like they do. Just wait for more information to come out instead of pretending your opinions have any basis. It doesn't matter what they call themselves. NASL might not know if they're dealing with sc2con or just the teams... but it doesn't change what has already happened, which is what people are upset about. I don't think anybody gives 2 shit whether it was sc2con or the teams banding together to make this decision, the results are the same. The only thing that it changes is the idea of them blocking sc/mvp, but that's still a sidestory as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure where your sense of entitlement to something is coming from. If the koreans are to participate in the NASL, they have to go through countless games and stay up til 3-4 in the morning. Staying up that late may influence your performance in the GSTL and GSL (which are more important to them). They aren't even guaranteed to make it to the grand finals and to be at the finals you'd have to pay out of your own pocket initially and there aren't any guarantees that you'd make any money. NASL season is super long and the payoff for just being in Grand Finals (if you make it) aren't that great unless you get into Ro4 or something like that. Do you have any idea what you're talking about? They all agreed to these rules weeks ago. And then they waited until it had already started to begin making demands. That's not incredibly fucked up to you? We can all agree the Koreans have a harder time given the playtime, lag, etc... but they agreed to it only to then go back on their word. edit: i also have absolutely no idea where a sense of entitlement would come from my post. I don't think it means what you think it means. True, the part about them falling back on their words is very fucked up of them. But upon review, teams may have realized that NASL is not best for the team so they just decided not to participate. You can hate them for that but it's not a decision that's necessarily wrong. If they found the terms to be bad for the team and the players, even if it was late, I think I can understand why they'd go back on their word. Not that I support their action. It is wrong because they committed to NASL and then broke the contract. I don't get how they like the terms and then ten days later don't like the terms and demand change and money. And if its about the terms so much, how come they didn't ask for matches to be played at different times or on the KR server? They only asked for money. Money is the biggest issue. They can't really negotiate the time zones since NASL has a studio in NA and it's a live recording. The teams either can't afford to send out their players or they think that it's not worth the money to send out the players. Koreans wanted NASL to pay them more and NASL can't afford to pay more. White-Ra paid his ticket out of pocket, got eliminated in the first round at the finals, and still is happily returning to Season 2. NASL has conceded a lot of things for the Koreans. They DID actually change the times, from what NASL said, for season 2, and are allowing Koreans to play on Korean server when it's KvK. They didn't do that for EU players, and yet, it is still the Koreans that are asking for more? I think NASL has done enough, tbh. I respect the Korean' teams decision to not participate (if it is even their decision...it certainly isn't FXO's or MVP's). But I think they should have stated it in a timely manner, not signed a contract, complain, and demand more money and special privileges than they were already given. I love watching Korean players play, but, I think it is time that Korean management learns that the rest of the world can't jump through hoops for them. In a way, they are mostly hurting themselves over this rather than getting anything out of it. What exactly do they get out of not being in NASL? Nothing really. white-ra is sponsored by Tt Esports. Yeah, but he still paid for his ticket own his own.
On August 14 2011 10:47 Slider954 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 10:46 JoeSchmoe wrote:On August 14 2011 10:17 whateverpeeps wrote:On August 14 2011 10:11 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 10:06 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 14 2011 10:01 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 09:55 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 14 2011 09:53 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 09:44 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 14 2011 09:43 Redmark wrote:
If the NASL folks are saying that they have no idea what's going on in Korea I don't see why posters here act like they do. Just wait for more information to come out instead of pretending your opinions have any basis. It doesn't matter what they call themselves. NASL might not know if they're dealing with sc2con or just the teams... but it doesn't change what has already happened, which is what people are upset about. I don't think anybody gives 2 shit whether it was sc2con or the teams banding together to make this decision, the results are the same. The only thing that it changes is the idea of them blocking sc/mvp, but that's still a sidestory as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure where your sense of entitlement to something is coming from. If the koreans are to participate in the NASL, they have to go through countless games and stay up til 3-4 in the morning. Staying up that late may influence your performance in the GSTL and GSL (which are more important to them). They aren't even guaranteed to make it to the grand finals and to be at the finals you'd have to pay out of your own pocket initially and there aren't any guarantees that you'd make any money. NASL season is super long and the payoff for just being in Grand Finals (if you make it) aren't that great unless you get into Ro4 or something like that. Do you have any idea what you're talking about? They all agreed to these rules weeks ago. And then they waited until it had already started to begin making demands. That's not incredibly fucked up to you? We can all agree the Koreans have a harder time given the playtime, lag, etc... but they agreed to it only to then go back on their word. edit: i also have absolutely no idea where a sense of entitlement would come from my post. I don't think it means what you think it means. True, the part about them falling back on their words is very fucked up of them. But upon review, teams may have realized that NASL is not best for the team so they just decided not to participate. You can hate them for that but it's not a decision that's necessarily wrong. If they found the terms to be bad for the team and the players, even if it was late, I think I can understand why they'd go back on their word. Not that I support their action. It is wrong because they committed to NASL and then broke the contract. I don't get how they like the terms and then ten days later don't like the terms and demand change and money. And if its about the terms so much, how come they didn't ask for matches to be played at different times or on the KR server? They only asked for money. Money is the biggest issue. They can't really negotiate the time zones since NASL has a studio in NA and it's a live recording. The teams either can't afford to send out their players or they think that it's not worth the money to send out the players. Koreans wanted NASL to pay them more and NASL can't afford to pay more. White-Ra paid his ticket out of pocket, got eliminated in the first round at the finals, and still is happily returning to Season 2. NASL has conceded a lot of things for the Koreans. They DID actually change the times, from what NASL said, for season 2, and are allowing Koreans to play on Korean server when it's KvK. They didn't do that for EU players, and yet, it is still the Koreans that are asking for more? I think NASL has done enough, tbh. I respect the Korean' teams decision to not participate (if it is even their decision...it certainly isn't FXO's or MVP's). But I think they should have stated it in a timely manner, not signed a contract, complain, and demand more money and special privileges than they were already given. I love watching Korean players play, but, I think it is time that Korean management learns that the rest of the world can't jump through hoops for them. In a way, they are mostly hurting themselves over this rather than getting anything out of it. What exactly do they get out of not being in NASL? Nothing really. white-ra is sponsored by Tt Esports. Now he is, I believe at that time he wasn't, not sure though.
he's been since late may. remember that red jacket he was wearing at NASL? Yeah that's Tt Esports.
On August 14 2011 10:51 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 10:46 JoeSchmoe wrote:
white-ra is sponsored by Tt Esports.
Yeah, but he still paid for his ticket own his own.
how do you know this?
EDIT: Nvm I got a PM from Primadog who explained the situation
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On August 14 2011 10:51 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 10:46 JoeSchmoe wrote:On August 14 2011 10:17 whateverpeeps wrote:On August 14 2011 10:11 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 10:06 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 14 2011 10:01 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 09:55 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 14 2011 09:53 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 09:44 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 14 2011 09:43 Redmark wrote:
If the NASL folks are saying that they have no idea what's going on in Korea I don't see why posters here act like they do. Just wait for more information to come out instead of pretending your opinions have any basis. It doesn't matter what they call themselves. NASL might not know if they're dealing with sc2con or just the teams... but it doesn't change what has already happened, which is what people are upset about. I don't think anybody gives 2 shit whether it was sc2con or the teams banding together to make this decision, the results are the same. The only thing that it changes is the idea of them blocking sc/mvp, but that's still a sidestory as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure where your sense of entitlement to something is coming from. If the koreans are to participate in the NASL, they have to go through countless games and stay up til 3-4 in the morning. Staying up that late may influence your performance in the GSTL and GSL (which are more important to them). They aren't even guaranteed to make it to the grand finals and to be at the finals you'd have to pay out of your own pocket initially and there aren't any guarantees that you'd make any money. NASL season is super long and the payoff for just being in Grand Finals (if you make it) aren't that great unless you get into Ro4 or something like that. Do you have any idea what you're talking about? They all agreed to these rules weeks ago. And then they waited until it had already started to begin making demands. That's not incredibly fucked up to you? We can all agree the Koreans have a harder time given the playtime, lag, etc... but they agreed to it only to then go back on their word. edit: i also have absolutely no idea where a sense of entitlement would come from my post. I don't think it means what you think it means. True, the part about them falling back on their words is very fucked up of them. But upon review, teams may have realized that NASL is not best for the team so they just decided not to participate. You can hate them for that but it's not a decision that's necessarily wrong. If they found the terms to be bad for the team and the players, even if it was late, I think I can understand why they'd go back on their word. Not that I support their action. It is wrong because they committed to NASL and then broke the contract. I don't get how they like the terms and then ten days later don't like the terms and demand change and money. And if its about the terms so much, how come they didn't ask for matches to be played at different times or on the KR server? They only asked for money. Money is the biggest issue. They can't really negotiate the time zones since NASL has a studio in NA and it's a live recording. The teams either can't afford to send out their players or they think that it's not worth the money to send out the players. Koreans wanted NASL to pay them more and NASL can't afford to pay more. White-Ra paid his ticket out of pocket, got eliminated in the first round at the finals, and still is happily returning to Season 2. NASL has conceded a lot of things for the Koreans. They DID actually change the times, from what NASL said, for season 2, and are allowing Koreans to play on Korean server when it's KvK. They didn't do that for EU players, and yet, it is still the Koreans that are asking for more? I think NASL has done enough, tbh. I respect the Korean' teams decision to not participate (if it is even their decision...it certainly isn't FXO's or MVP's). But I think they should have stated it in a timely manner, not signed a contract, complain, and demand more money and special privileges than they were already given. I love watching Korean players play, but, I think it is time that Korean management learns that the rest of the world can't jump through hoops for them. In a way, they are mostly hurting themselves over this rather than getting anything out of it. What exactly do they get out of not being in NASL? Nothing really. white-ra is sponsored by Tt Esports. Yeah, but he still paid for his ticket own his own.
white-ra is financially stable. a 20 year old kid in korea living off his team isn't.
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seem's like s2con wants to have their cake and eat it too
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White-Ra=Jesus. He will turn our esports water into esports wine.
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On August 14 2011 10:50 Carbonthief wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 10:45 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 10:42 Carbonthief wrote:On August 14 2011 10:38 slyboogie wrote:
It's becoming increasingly clear that the Starcraft 2 business in Korea is not done with total transparency. I'm not saying that that's a bad thing or a good thing, it just is what it is. I'm fine with chalking this up to culture and style but it does tend to irk the part of me that wants to know all information. There's no reason for Korea to change, as much as I'd like it to, but making this kind of statement is odd.
I mean, who makes up the S2CON? Is it a separate entity from the teams? Or is it comprised of managers of the teams? Furthermore is it really THAT perplexing that NASL.tv referred to S2CON - our understanding of it is basically a unified front of Korean teams. If NASL.tv misunderstood, it doesn't seem like a huge mistake. I agree with this. All the SC2Con teams unite in a decision to break contracts that they signed, but, it's not SC2Con? Then what is it then? And what is the SC2Con for? Like what if all team liquid pros, managers, and moderators put together a post saying that they would not play in the NASL, but then later TL released a statement saying this was not a TL decision? It would be more like Hot_Bid making a post saying that TL hates horses then everyone else on TL saying that they love horses. Your analogy is quite opposite. Ok so to extend your analogy, who is saying that they love horses they want to actually play in the NASL, and who is Hot_Bid not letting them?
I don't follow. I'm saying that the way you put it makes it seem like everyone in SC2Con got together and decided to not participate in the NASL when it seems like it was only the teams that were involved in the NASL that were making the decision. Why would a team that doesn't even have players in NASL even attend a meeting about the issue with NASL?
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On August 14 2011 10:44 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 10:38 slyboogie wrote:
It's becoming increasingly clear that the Starcraft 2 business in Korea is not done with total transparency. I'm not saying that that's a bad thing or a good thing, it just is what it is. I'm fine with chalking this up to culture and style but it does tend to irk the part of me that wants to know all information. There's no reason for Korea to change, as much as I'd like it to, but making this kind of statement is odd.
I mean, who makes up the S2CON? Is it a separate entity from the teams? Or is it comprised of managers of the teams? Furthermore is it really THAT perplexing that NASL.tv referred to S2CON - our understanding of it is basically a unified front of Korean teams. If NASL.tv misunderstood, it doesn't seem like a huge mistake. I greatly disagree. Things aren't going well for sc2 in Korea. I mean teams can't afford to pay the travel difference after getting a $1000 stipend. Also there are very limited opportunities in Korea. Quite frankly I see a lot of Korean players moving to foreign teams. You think that Rain, Puma, and others that have already made the move don't talk to their old teammates and tell them how they get to play in so many tournaments, get a salary and so on? Korea has the best players. The West has the money and wants the best players. Somethings gotta give.
Ultimately though Korea has all the best players and that is by far the hardest thing to replicate.
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On August 14 2011 11:00 nitdkim wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 10:50 Carbonthief wrote:On August 14 2011 10:45 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 10:42 Carbonthief wrote:On August 14 2011 10:38 slyboogie wrote:
It's becoming increasingly clear that the Starcraft 2 business in Korea is not done with total transparency. I'm not saying that that's a bad thing or a good thing, it just is what it is. I'm fine with chalking this up to culture and style but it does tend to irk the part of me that wants to know all information. There's no reason for Korea to change, as much as I'd like it to, but making this kind of statement is odd.
I mean, who makes up the S2CON? Is it a separate entity from the teams? Or is it comprised of managers of the teams? Furthermore is it really THAT perplexing that NASL.tv referred to S2CON - our understanding of it is basically a unified front of Korean teams. If NASL.tv misunderstood, it doesn't seem like a huge mistake. I agree with this. All the SC2Con teams unite in a decision to break contracts that they signed, but, it's not SC2Con? Then what is it then? And what is the SC2Con for? Like what if all team liquid pros, managers, and moderators put together a post saying that they would not play in the NASL, but then later TL released a statement saying this was not a TL decision? It would be more like Hot_Bid making a post saying that TL hates horses then everyone else on TL saying that they love horses. Your analogy is quite opposite. Ok so to extend your analogy, who is saying that they love horses they want to actually play in the NASL, and who is Hot_Bid not letting them? I don't follow. I'm saying that the way you put it makes it seem like everyone in SC2Con got together and decided to not participate in the NASL when it seems like it was only the teams that were involved in the NASL that were making the decision. Why would a team that doesn't even have players in NASL even attend a meeting about the issue with NASL?
I don't know why, but I was under the impression that this is what occurred?
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On August 14 2011 10:54 nitdkim wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 10:47 Slider954 wrote:On August 14 2011 10:46 JoeSchmoe wrote:On August 14 2011 10:17 whateverpeeps wrote:On August 14 2011 10:11 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 10:06 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 14 2011 10:01 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 09:55 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 14 2011 09:53 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 09:44 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
[quote]
It doesn't matter what they call themselves. NASL might not know if they're dealing with sc2con or just the teams... but it doesn't change what has already happened, which is what people are upset about. I don't think anybody gives 2 shit whether it was sc2con or the teams banding together to make this decision, the results are the same.
The only thing that it changes is the idea of them blocking sc/mvp, but that's still a sidestory as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure where your sense of entitlement to something is coming from. If the koreans are to participate in the NASL, they have to go through countless games and stay up til 3-4 in the morning. Staying up that late may influence your performance in the GSTL and GSL (which are more important to them). They aren't even guaranteed to make it to the grand finals and to be at the finals you'd have to pay out of your own pocket initially and there aren't any guarantees that you'd make any money. NASL season is super long and the payoff for just being in Grand Finals (if you make it) aren't that great unless you get into Ro4 or something like that. Do you have any idea what you're talking about? They all agreed to these rules weeks ago. And then they waited until it had already started to begin making demands. That's not incredibly fucked up to you? We can all agree the Koreans have a harder time given the playtime, lag, etc... but they agreed to it only to then go back on their word. edit: i also have absolutely no idea where a sense of entitlement would come from my post. I don't think it means what you think it means. True, the part about them falling back on their words is very fucked up of them. But upon review, teams may have realized that NASL is not best for the team so they just decided not to participate. You can hate them for that but it's not a decision that's necessarily wrong. If they found the terms to be bad for the team and the players, even if it was late, I think I can understand why they'd go back on their word. Not that I support their action. It is wrong because they committed to NASL and then broke the contract. I don't get how they like the terms and then ten days later don't like the terms and demand change and money. And if its about the terms so much, how come they didn't ask for matches to be played at different times or on the KR server? They only asked for money. Money is the biggest issue. They can't really negotiate the time zones since NASL has a studio in NA and it's a live recording. The teams either can't afford to send out their players or they think that it's not worth the money to send out the players. Koreans wanted NASL to pay them more and NASL can't afford to pay more. White-Ra paid his ticket out of pocket, got eliminated in the first round at the finals, and still is happily returning to Season 2. NASL has conceded a lot of things for the Koreans. They DID actually change the times, from what NASL said, for season 2, and are allowing Koreans to play on Korean server when it's KvK. They didn't do that for EU players, and yet, it is still the Koreans that are asking for more? I think NASL has done enough, tbh. I respect the Korean' teams decision to not participate (if it is even their decision...it certainly isn't FXO's or MVP's). But I think they should have stated it in a timely manner, not signed a contract, complain, and demand more money and special privileges than they were already given. I love watching Korean players play, but, I think it is time that Korean management learns that the rest of the world can't jump through hoops for them. In a way, they are mostly hurting themselves over this rather than getting anything out of it. What exactly do they get out of not being in NASL? Nothing really. white-ra is sponsored by Tt Esports. Now he is, I believe at that time he wasn't, not sure though. Just because white-ra can afford to come doesn't mean that everyone else in korea should be able to. The situations are quite different. White-ra was sponsored by duckload and thermal take during the duration of NASL. a korean gamer is basically sponsored by his team. I think most teams are given a set amount of money from the sponsors in the korean scene since most of the costs are cost of living. Foreign scene wasn't considered as much just up until recently.
The point is that he didn't go to NASL and say hey you need to pay for me to come over or I'm not coming over after committing to come over. His expenses were just as much as the Koreans, but still made it. Korean teams not having money shouldn't be NASL's problem. Its their problem that they need to fix, not ask every tournament they play in to pay for everything. Especially when signing a contract stating you agree to the terms (such as the travel stipend)
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On August 14 2011 10:42 Carbonthief wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 10:38 slyboogie wrote:
It's becoming increasingly clear that the Starcraft 2 business in Korea is not done with total transparency. I'm not saying that that's a bad thing or a good thing, it just is what it is. I'm fine with chalking this up to culture and style but it does tend to irk the part of me that wants to know all information. There's no reason for Korea to change, as much as I'd like it to, but making this kind of statement is odd.
I mean, who makes up the S2CON? Is it a separate entity from the teams? Or is it comprised of managers of the teams? Furthermore is it really THAT perplexing that NASL.tv referred to S2CON - our understanding of it is basically a unified front of Korean teams. If NASL.tv misunderstood, it doesn't seem like a huge mistake. I agree with this. All the SC2Con teams unite in a decision to break contracts that they signed, but, it's not SC2Con? Then what is it then? And what is the SC2Con for? Like what if all team liquid pros, managers, and moderators put together a post saying that they would not play in the NASL, but then later TL released a statement saying this was not a TL decision?
copy/paste from my reply
s2con members:
FXOKorea, IM, MVP, NSHoSeo, oGs, TSL, Prime, StarTale, ZeNEX
Korean teams withdrawing:
oGs, StarTale, WeMadeFox, TSL, Prime
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On August 14 2011 11:00 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 10:44 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 14 2011 10:38 slyboogie wrote:
It's becoming increasingly clear that the Starcraft 2 business in Korea is not done with total transparency. I'm not saying that that's a bad thing or a good thing, it just is what it is. I'm fine with chalking this up to culture and style but it does tend to irk the part of me that wants to know all information. There's no reason for Korea to change, as much as I'd like it to, but making this kind of statement is odd.
I mean, who makes up the S2CON? Is it a separate entity from the teams? Or is it comprised of managers of the teams? Furthermore is it really THAT perplexing that NASL.tv referred to S2CON - our understanding of it is basically a unified front of Korean teams. If NASL.tv misunderstood, it doesn't seem like a huge mistake. I greatly disagree. Things aren't going well for sc2 in Korea. I mean teams can't afford to pay the travel difference after getting a $1000 stipend. Also there are very limited opportunities in Korea. Quite frankly I see a lot of Korean players moving to foreign teams. You think that Rain, Puma, and others that have already made the move don't talk to their old teammates and tell them how they get to play in so many tournaments, get a salary and so on? Korea has the best players. The West has the money and wants the best players. Somethings gotta give. Ultimately though Korea has all the best players and that is by far the hardest thing to replicate.
Money talks and players will walk. The Korean scene cannot survive without money, especially when they are competing with the foreign scene which does have money.
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On August 14 2011 11:03 NHY wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 10:42 Carbonthief wrote:On August 14 2011 10:38 slyboogie wrote:
It's becoming increasingly clear that the Starcraft 2 business in Korea is not done with total transparency. I'm not saying that that's a bad thing or a good thing, it just is what it is. I'm fine with chalking this up to culture and style but it does tend to irk the part of me that wants to know all information. There's no reason for Korea to change, as much as I'd like it to, but making this kind of statement is odd.
I mean, who makes up the S2CON? Is it a separate entity from the teams? Or is it comprised of managers of the teams? Furthermore is it really THAT perplexing that NASL.tv referred to S2CON - our understanding of it is basically a unified front of Korean teams. If NASL.tv misunderstood, it doesn't seem like a huge mistake. I agree with this. All the SC2Con teams unite in a decision to break contracts that they signed, but, it's not SC2Con? Then what is it then? And what is the SC2Con for? Like what if all team liquid pros, managers, and moderators put together a post saying that they would not play in the NASL, but then later TL released a statement saying this was not a TL decision? copy/paste from my reply s2con members: FXOKorea, IM, MVP, NSHoSeo, oGs, TSL, Prime, StarTale, ZeNEX Korean teams withdrawing: oGs, StarTale, WeMadeFox, TSL, Prime
Ok so assuming that none of the other teams influenced the decision, it makes sense now.
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On August 14 2011 11:03 NHY wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 10:42 Carbonthief wrote:On August 14 2011 10:38 slyboogie wrote:
It's becoming increasingly clear that the Starcraft 2 business in Korea is not done with total transparency. I'm not saying that that's a bad thing or a good thing, it just is what it is. I'm fine with chalking this up to culture and style but it does tend to irk the part of me that wants to know all information. There's no reason for Korea to change, as much as I'd like it to, but making this kind of statement is odd.
I mean, who makes up the S2CON? Is it a separate entity from the teams? Or is it comprised of managers of the teams? Furthermore is it really THAT perplexing that NASL.tv referred to S2CON - our understanding of it is basically a unified front of Korean teams. If NASL.tv misunderstood, it doesn't seem like a huge mistake. I agree with this. All the SC2Con teams unite in a decision to break contracts that they signed, but, it's not SC2Con? Then what is it then? And what is the SC2Con for? Like what if all team liquid pros, managers, and moderators put together a post saying that they would not play in the NASL, but then later TL released a statement saying this was not a TL decision? copy/paste from my reply s2con members: FXOKorea, IM, MVP, NSHoSeo, oGs, TSL, Prime, StarTale, ZeNEX Korean teams withdrawing: oGs, StarTale, WeMadeFox, TSL, Prime
Ummmm...
FXOKorea: That's what NASL is saying - that FXOKorea is currently fighting with SC2Con.
IM: Doesn't have any players to withdraw
MVP: Doesn't have any players to withdraw, though if NASL is to be believed, MVP seems to have been offered some of the spots that other teams withdrew, and has interest in taking them, albeit cannot without SC2Con's consent.
ZeNEX: Doesn't have any players to withdraw
NSHoSeo: Doesn't have any players to withdraw
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So from what I understand, there are a few teams wanting to play in NASL, but because most of the korean teams don't want to, they're not letting the other teams? Im confused, can we get a better clarification please?
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On August 14 2011 11:02 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 10:54 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 10:47 Slider954 wrote:On August 14 2011 10:46 JoeSchmoe wrote:On August 14 2011 10:17 whateverpeeps wrote:On August 14 2011 10:11 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 10:06 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 14 2011 10:01 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 09:55 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 14 2011 09:53 nitdkim wrote:
[quote]
I'm not sure where your sense of entitlement to something is coming from. If the koreans are to participate in the NASL, they have to go through countless games and stay up til 3-4 in the morning. Staying up that late may influence your performance in the GSTL and GSL (which are more important to them). They aren't even guaranteed to make it to the grand finals and to be at the finals you'd have to pay out of your own pocket initially and there aren't any guarantees that you'd make any money. NASL season is super long and the payoff for just being in Grand Finals (if you make it) aren't that great unless you get into Ro4 or something like that. Do you have any idea what you're talking about? They all agreed to these rules weeks ago. And then they waited until it had already started to begin making demands. That's not incredibly fucked up to you? We can all agree the Koreans have a harder time given the playtime, lag, etc... but they agreed to it only to then go back on their word. edit: i also have absolutely no idea where a sense of entitlement would come from my post. I don't think it means what you think it means. True, the part about them falling back on their words is very fucked up of them. But upon review, teams may have realized that NASL is not best for the team so they just decided not to participate. You can hate them for that but it's not a decision that's necessarily wrong. If they found the terms to be bad for the team and the players, even if it was late, I think I can understand why they'd go back on their word. Not that I support their action. It is wrong because they committed to NASL and then broke the contract. I don't get how they like the terms and then ten days later don't like the terms and demand change and money. And if its about the terms so much, how come they didn't ask for matches to be played at different times or on the KR server? They only asked for money. Money is the biggest issue. They can't really negotiate the time zones since NASL has a studio in NA and it's a live recording. The teams either can't afford to send out their players or they think that it's not worth the money to send out the players. Koreans wanted NASL to pay them more and NASL can't afford to pay more. White-Ra paid his ticket out of pocket, got eliminated in the first round at the finals, and still is happily returning to Season 2. NASL has conceded a lot of things for the Koreans. They DID actually change the times, from what NASL said, for season 2, and are allowing Koreans to play on Korean server when it's KvK. They didn't do that for EU players, and yet, it is still the Koreans that are asking for more? I think NASL has done enough, tbh. I respect the Korean' teams decision to not participate (if it is even their decision...it certainly isn't FXO's or MVP's). But I think they should have stated it in a timely manner, not signed a contract, complain, and demand more money and special privileges than they were already given. I love watching Korean players play, but, I think it is time that Korean management learns that the rest of the world can't jump through hoops for them. In a way, they are mostly hurting themselves over this rather than getting anything out of it. What exactly do they get out of not being in NASL? Nothing really. white-ra is sponsored by Tt Esports. Now he is, I believe at that time he wasn't, not sure though. Just because white-ra can afford to come doesn't mean that everyone else in korea should be able to. The situations are quite different. White-ra was sponsored by duckload and thermal take during the duration of NASL. a korean gamer is basically sponsored by his team. I think most teams are given a set amount of money from the sponsors in the korean scene since most of the costs are cost of living. Foreign scene wasn't considered as much just up until recently. The point is that he didn't go to NASL and say hey you need to pay for me to come over or I'm not coming over after committing to come over. His expenses were just as much as the Koreans, but still made it. Korean teams not having money shouldn't be NASL's problem. Its their problem that they need to fix, not ask every tournament they play in to pay for everything. Especially when signing a contract stating you agree to the terms (such as the travel stipend)
So the koreans just need to go and get some more money...? The teams can't afford to send their players or it's not a worthwhile investment for them to send out their players. They ask NASL to help pay so that they can send their players. The terms weren't satisfying for the teams so they backed off even if it was after they signed the contracts. Why would they want to stick around to play in a long term tourament when they think that they won't even be able to send their player to the grand finals because of finances?
The withdrawing teams are supposedly making their official statements about this matter so we will know for sure why they are not participating and the details of it.
On August 14 2011 11:08 AxelTVx wrote:
So from what I understand, there are a few teams wanting to play in NASL, but because most of the korean teams don't want to, they're not letting the other teams? Im confused, can we get a better clarification please?
It would be best to see those issues as separate conflicts. A lof of people here are clumping them together but as of right now, there are no official statements from anybody concerning SC2Con not allowing some teams to participate even if they wanted to.
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On August 14 2011 11:09 nitdkim wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 11:02 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 14 2011 10:54 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 10:47 Slider954 wrote:On August 14 2011 10:46 JoeSchmoe wrote:On August 14 2011 10:17 whateverpeeps wrote:On August 14 2011 10:11 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 10:06 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 14 2011 10:01 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 09:55 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
[quote]
Do you have any idea what you're talking about? They all agreed to these rules weeks ago. And then they waited until it had already started to begin making demands.
That's not incredibly fucked up to you? We can all agree the Koreans have a harder time given the playtime, lag, etc... but they agreed to it only to then go back on their word.
edit: i also have absolutely no idea where a sense of entitlement would come from my post. I don't think it means what you think it means. True, the part about them falling back on their words is very fucked up of them. But upon review, teams may have realized that NASL is not best for the team so they just decided not to participate. You can hate them for that but it's not a decision that's necessarily wrong. If they found the terms to be bad for the team and the players, even if it was late, I think I can understand why they'd go back on their word. Not that I support their action. It is wrong because they committed to NASL and then broke the contract. I don't get how they like the terms and then ten days later don't like the terms and demand change and money. And if its about the terms so much, how come they didn't ask for matches to be played at different times or on the KR server? They only asked for money. Money is the biggest issue. They can't really negotiate the time zones since NASL has a studio in NA and it's a live recording. The teams either can't afford to send out their players or they think that it's not worth the money to send out the players. Koreans wanted NASL to pay them more and NASL can't afford to pay more. White-Ra paid his ticket out of pocket, got eliminated in the first round at the finals, and still is happily returning to Season 2. NASL has conceded a lot of things for the Koreans. They DID actually change the times, from what NASL said, for season 2, and are allowing Koreans to play on Korean server when it's KvK. They didn't do that for EU players, and yet, it is still the Koreans that are asking for more? I think NASL has done enough, tbh. I respect the Korean' teams decision to not participate (if it is even their decision...it certainly isn't FXO's or MVP's). But I think they should have stated it in a timely manner, not signed a contract, complain, and demand more money and special privileges than they were already given. I love watching Korean players play, but, I think it is time that Korean management learns that the rest of the world can't jump through hoops for them. In a way, they are mostly hurting themselves over this rather than getting anything out of it. What exactly do they get out of not being in NASL? Nothing really. white-ra is sponsored by Tt Esports. Now he is, I believe at that time he wasn't, not sure though. Just because white-ra can afford to come doesn't mean that everyone else in korea should be able to. The situations are quite different. White-ra was sponsored by duckload and thermal take during the duration of NASL. a korean gamer is basically sponsored by his team. I think most teams are given a set amount of money from the sponsors in the korean scene since most of the costs are cost of living. Foreign scene wasn't considered as much just up until recently. The point is that he didn't go to NASL and say hey you need to pay for me to come over or I'm not coming over after committing to come over. His expenses were just as much as the Koreans, but still made it. Korean teams not having money shouldn't be NASL's problem. Its their problem that they need to fix, not ask every tournament they play in to pay for everything. Especially when signing a contract stating you agree to the terms (such as the travel stipend) So the koreans just need to go and get some more money...? The teams can't afford to send their players or it's not a worthwhile investment for them to send out their players. They ask NASL to help pay so that they can send their players. The terms weren't satisfying for the teams so they backed off even if it was after they signed the contracts. Why would they want to stick around to play in a long term tourament when they think that they won't even be able to send their player to the grand finals because of finances?
You're missing the point. He's saying that if NASL isnt helping other players/teams (like White-Ra) get to finals, why should they have to help the Koreans. Times are tough for everybody. The world economy isn't exactly in the greatest shape right now.
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On August 14 2011 10:46 JoeSchmoe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 10:17 whateverpeeps wrote:On August 14 2011 10:11 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 10:06 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 14 2011 10:01 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 09:55 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 14 2011 09:53 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 09:44 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 14 2011 09:43 Redmark wrote:
If the NASL folks are saying that they have no idea what's going on in Korea I don't see why posters here act like they do. Just wait for more information to come out instead of pretending your opinions have any basis. It doesn't matter what they call themselves. NASL might not know if they're dealing with sc2con or just the teams... but it doesn't change what has already happened, which is what people are upset about. I don't think anybody gives 2 shit whether it was sc2con or the teams banding together to make this decision, the results are the same. The only thing that it changes is the idea of them blocking sc/mvp, but that's still a sidestory as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure where your sense of entitlement to something is coming from. If the koreans are to participate in the NASL, they have to go through countless games and stay up til 3-4 in the morning. Staying up that late may influence your performance in the GSTL and GSL (which are more important to them). They aren't even guaranteed to make it to the grand finals and to be at the finals you'd have to pay out of your own pocket initially and there aren't any guarantees that you'd make any money. NASL season is super long and the payoff for just being in Grand Finals (if you make it) aren't that great unless you get into Ro4 or something like that. Do you have any idea what you're talking about? They all agreed to these rules weeks ago. And then they waited until it had already started to begin making demands. That's not incredibly fucked up to you? We can all agree the Koreans have a harder time given the playtime, lag, etc... but they agreed to it only to then go back on their word. edit: i also have absolutely no idea where a sense of entitlement would come from my post. I don't think it means what you think it means. True, the part about them falling back on their words is very fucked up of them. But upon review, teams may have realized that NASL is not best for the team so they just decided not to participate. You can hate them for that but it's not a decision that's necessarily wrong. If they found the terms to be bad for the team and the players, even if it was late, I think I can understand why they'd go back on their word. Not that I support their action. It is wrong because they committed to NASL and then broke the contract. I don't get how they like the terms and then ten days later don't like the terms and demand change and money. And if its about the terms so much, how come they didn't ask for matches to be played at different times or on the KR server? They only asked for money. Money is the biggest issue. They can't really negotiate the time zones since NASL has a studio in NA and it's a live recording. The teams either can't afford to send out their players or they think that it's not worth the money to send out the players. Koreans wanted NASL to pay them more and NASL can't afford to pay more. White-Ra paid his ticket out of pocket, got eliminated in the first round at the finals, and still is happily returning to Season 2. NASL has conceded a lot of things for the Koreans. They DID actually change the times, from what NASL said, for season 2, and are allowing Koreans to play on Korean server when it's KvK. They didn't do that for EU players, and yet, it is still the Koreans that are asking for more? I think NASL has done enough, tbh. I respect the Korean' teams decision to not participate (if it is even their decision...it certainly isn't FXO's or MVP's). But I think they should have stated it in a timely manner, not signed a contract, complain, and demand more money and special privileges than they were already given. I love watching Korean players play, but, I think it is time that Korean management learns that the rest of the world can't jump through hoops for them. In a way, they are mostly hurting themselves over this rather than getting anything out of it. What exactly do they get out of not being in NASL? Nothing really. white-ra is sponsored by Tt Esports.
He was in Duckload at the time, who didn't pay for his plane ticket. It was out of pocket.
[EDIT] My point is, many players have it worse when it comes to NASL, but are not complaining or demanding nearly as much.
The Koreans have received so much special treatment (asked about which hours they prefer playing, allowed to play on K server), that the argument that, "NASL is a difficult tournament for them to play in" doesn't hold much weight.
If 30+ players can do it on worse conditions, then they should be able to do it, if they want to be considered professional players.
And if the Korean teams are so poor, they are not going to get any money sitting around. True story. Even $200 out of pocket is reimbursed through the exposure to Western sponsors that NASL provides, especially when there are no Korean sponsors.
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On August 14 2011 11:14 Slider954 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 11:09 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 11:02 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 14 2011 10:54 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 10:47 Slider954 wrote:On August 14 2011 10:46 JoeSchmoe wrote:On August 14 2011 10:17 whateverpeeps wrote:On August 14 2011 10:11 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 10:06 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 14 2011 10:01 nitdkim wrote:
[quote]
True, the part about them falling back on their words is very fucked up of them. But upon review, teams may have realized that NASL is not best for the team so they just decided not to participate. You can hate them for that but it's not a decision that's necessarily wrong. If they found the terms to be bad for the team and the players, even if it was late, I think I can understand why they'd go back on their word. Not that I support their action. It is wrong because they committed to NASL and then broke the contract. I don't get how they like the terms and then ten days later don't like the terms and demand change and money. And if its about the terms so much, how come they didn't ask for matches to be played at different times or on the KR server? They only asked for money. Money is the biggest issue. They can't really negotiate the time zones since NASL has a studio in NA and it's a live recording. The teams either can't afford to send out their players or they think that it's not worth the money to send out the players. Koreans wanted NASL to pay them more and NASL can't afford to pay more. White-Ra paid his ticket out of pocket, got eliminated in the first round at the finals, and still is happily returning to Season 2. NASL has conceded a lot of things for the Koreans. They DID actually change the times, from what NASL said, for season 2, and are allowing Koreans to play on Korean server when it's KvK. They didn't do that for EU players, and yet, it is still the Koreans that are asking for more? I think NASL has done enough, tbh. I respect the Korean' teams decision to not participate (if it is even their decision...it certainly isn't FXO's or MVP's). But I think they should have stated it in a timely manner, not signed a contract, complain, and demand more money and special privileges than they were already given. I love watching Korean players play, but, I think it is time that Korean management learns that the rest of the world can't jump through hoops for them. In a way, they are mostly hurting themselves over this rather than getting anything out of it. What exactly do they get out of not being in NASL? Nothing really. white-ra is sponsored by Tt Esports. Now he is, I believe at that time he wasn't, not sure though. Just because white-ra can afford to come doesn't mean that everyone else in korea should be able to. The situations are quite different. White-ra was sponsored by duckload and thermal take during the duration of NASL. a korean gamer is basically sponsored by his team. I think most teams are given a set amount of money from the sponsors in the korean scene since most of the costs are cost of living. Foreign scene wasn't considered as much just up until recently. The point is that he didn't go to NASL and say hey you need to pay for me to come over or I'm not coming over after committing to come over. His expenses were just as much as the Koreans, but still made it. Korean teams not having money shouldn't be NASL's problem. Its their problem that they need to fix, not ask every tournament they play in to pay for everything. Especially when signing a contract stating you agree to the terms (such as the travel stipend) So the koreans just need to go and get some more money...? The teams can't afford to send their players or it's not a worthwhile investment for them to send out their players. They ask NASL to help pay so that they can send their players. The terms weren't satisfying for the teams so they backed off even if it was after they signed the contracts. Why would they want to stick around to play in a long term tourament when they think that they won't even be able to send their player to the grand finals because of finances? You're missing the point. He's saying that if NASL isnt helping other players/teams (like White-Ra) get to finals, why should they have to help the Koreans. Times are tough for everybody. The world economy isn't exactly in the greatest shape right now.
Times are tough. Koreans don't have as much money as foreigners and that is fact. Even with NASL's financial aid, Koreans still have declined to play.
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On August 14 2011 11:09 nitdkim wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 11:02 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 14 2011 10:54 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 10:47 Slider954 wrote:On August 14 2011 10:46 JoeSchmoe wrote:On August 14 2011 10:17 whateverpeeps wrote:On August 14 2011 10:11 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 10:06 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 14 2011 10:01 nitdkim wrote:On August 14 2011 09:55 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
[quote]
Do you have any idea what you're talking about? They all agreed to these rules weeks ago. And then they waited until it had already started to begin making demands.
That's not incredibly fucked up to you? We can all agree the Koreans have a harder time given the playtime, lag, etc... but they agreed to it only to then go back on their word.
edit: i also have absolutely no idea where a sense of entitlement would come from my post. I don't think it means what you think it means. True, the part about them falling back on their words is very fucked up of them. But upon review, teams may have realized that NASL is not best for the team so they just decided not to participate. You can hate them for that but it's not a decision that's necessarily wrong. If they found the terms to be bad for the team and the players, even if it was late, I think I can understand why they'd go back on their word. Not that I support their action. It is wrong because they committed to NASL and then broke the contract. I don't get how they like the terms and then ten days later don't like the terms and demand change and money. And if its about the terms so much, how come they didn't ask for matches to be played at different times or on the KR server? They only asked for money. Money is the biggest issue. They can't really negotiate the time zones since NASL has a studio in NA and it's a live recording. The teams either can't afford to send out their players or they think that it's not worth the money to send out the players. Koreans wanted NASL to pay them more and NASL can't afford to pay more. White-Ra paid his ticket out of pocket, got eliminated in the first round at the finals, and still is happily returning to Season 2. NASL has conceded a lot of things for the Koreans. They DID actually change the times, from what NASL said, for season 2, and are allowing Koreans to play on Korean server when it's KvK. They didn't do that for EU players, and yet, it is still the Koreans that are asking for more? I think NASL has done enough, tbh. I respect the Korean' teams decision to not participate (if it is even their decision...it certainly isn't FXO's or MVP's). But I think they should have stated it in a timely manner, not signed a contract, complain, and demand more money and special privileges than they were already given. I love watching Korean players play, but, I think it is time that Korean management learns that the rest of the world can't jump through hoops for them. In a way, they are mostly hurting themselves over this rather than getting anything out of it. What exactly do they get out of not being in NASL? Nothing really. white-ra is sponsored by Tt Esports. Now he is, I believe at that time he wasn't, not sure though. Just because white-ra can afford to come doesn't mean that everyone else in korea should be able to. The situations are quite different. White-ra was sponsored by duckload and thermal take during the duration of NASL. a korean gamer is basically sponsored by his team. I think most teams are given a set amount of money from the sponsors in the korean scene since most of the costs are cost of living. Foreign scene wasn't considered as much just up until recently. The point is that he didn't go to NASL and say hey you need to pay for me to come over or I'm not coming over after committing to come over. His expenses were just as much as the Koreans, but still made it. Korean teams not having money shouldn't be NASL's problem. Its their problem that they need to fix, not ask every tournament they play in to pay for everything. Especially when signing a contract stating you agree to the terms (such as the travel stipend) So the koreans just need to go and get some more money...? The teams can't afford to send their players or it's not a worthwhile investment for them to send out their players. They ask NASL to help pay so that they can send their players. The terms weren't satisfying for the teams so they backed off even if it was after they signed the contracts. Why would they want to stick around to play in a long term tourament when they think that they won't even be able to send their player to the grand finals because of finances? The withdrawing teams are supposedly making their official statements about this matter so we will know for sure why they are not participating and the details of it. Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 11:08 AxelTVx wrote:
So from what I understand, there are a few teams wanting to play in NASL, but because most of the korean teams don't want to, they're not letting the other teams? Im confused, can we get a better clarification please? It would be best to see those issues as separate conflicts. A lof of people here are clumping them together but as of right now, there are no official statements from anybody concerning SC2Con not allowing some teams to participate even if they wanted to.
They never should have signed the contracts. Why sign them and 10 days later say the terms don't work for them? You say that before you sign the contract. If the terms aren't satisfying, dont agree to them. I'm fine with them not finding them satisfying, just don't agree to them and then 15 days later pull out from the tournament and screw NASL over. They acted incredibly unprofessional.
And yes they need to go out and get money. Cause if they don't they will lose their players and the scene will die. I'm not saying its easy, but it needs to be done.
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EPT
