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On August 12 2011 12:55 Disquiet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 12:48 tripper688 wrote:On August 12 2011 12:44 Disquiet wrote:On August 12 2011 12:36 ke_ivan wrote:
Yeah Korea is far away from pretty much everywhere and the cost to fly is expensive. So I'm not surprised they pulled out - they probably don't have the upfront cash. They did do this late though, so bad planning there. Even if they went on a young person's ticket, that would cost US$1250. A weak US Dollar obviously helps, but imagine if you were MC and your team wanted to fly you once a month out the NASL. Even 2k per player wouldn't be enough, and that doesn't even include expenses like lodging and food. The only reasonable thing to do would be to pull out. I'm not saying that they should've, but NASL and the teams should've considered this already. Aren't the managers supposed to the number crunching first? That's why FXO has a wonderful model - think of it as a business subsidiary: FXOKorea and FXO. Look all the financial excuses are BS. Plane tickets are 1500 return at the most. With this prizing they will be making a profit even if they lose in the first round. The concern might be upfront cash. Well I think Koreans need to learn what a loan is, when you have guaranteed income to repay the loan in the future theres no risk of excessive ongoing interest payments from a loan. Its collective bargaining from sc2con to try and get more than they deserve. You see this kind of thing all the time with unions and in the end everyone loses. How is it getting more than they deserve when their biggest league is shipping foreigners to play in their tournaments for free, as well as housing them, giving them equal opportunity in the tournaments, and rescheduling their groups just so the foreigners can participate in an extra couple of tournies? As for money being BS...$1500 for plane ticket alone, not counting room, board, further traveling costs once on the ground, that adds up for poorer teams. I think you need to read the thread, it has been stated multiple times that 1650 is realistically how much the trip costs. They are making the a guaranteed profit of 350 just for attending. Asking for more is more than they deserve, and NASL rightfully refused them. I don't think this is the players decision, it is sc2cons decision. I'm sure the players would love to be paid 350 to go on a trip to america to play starcraft. And your comparison with the GSL is foolish. 1.) the GSL is month long, a much bigger investment than the 3day NASL. 2.) The koreans have a far greater chance of earning a significant amount of prizemoney than foreigners in the GSL.
This so much! I really feel like the players are getting screwed here.
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On August 12 2011 12:55 dookudooku wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 12:51 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 12:48 dookudooku wrote:On August 12 2011 12:41 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 12:37 dookudooku wrote:
People, think about it. Why are the teams demanding that NASL cover all the travel expenses?
The issue is almost certainly NOT about the return-on-investment, or the organization of the tournament. These people are gamers at heart. They want to play. But not all teams are on an equal financial footing.
Some teams can afford to send their players overseas. Some can't, and they want to protect teams. Some teams would allow their players to use prize money to cover additional expenses. Some teams will protect their players and don't want them to do that. The lowest common denominator here is to protect both TEAMS and PLAYERS. If NASL covers all the travel costs, then there is no point of contention. Since that didn't work out, withdrawal was necessary. Its ridiculous to ask NASL to cover it. I think NASL's offer is generous, and I do not think s2con is being greedy. You can't blame them for asking NASL to cover it. Teams are not on equal financial footing. They don't have sponsers that will pay the cost of sending a player overseas. When travel costs are not covered, disputes among players and teams over who pays those costs are inevitable. I think they are being greedy. I think as a team you need to know what you can and can't afford and then allow your players to play in tournaments from there on. You don't allow your players to qualify and then go to the tournament, oh hey we can't really afford this so if you could just pay for everything and then give our players the prize money on top of that, that would just be wonderful. If teams can't afford it, their players shouldn't play in it. Simple as that. Then the teams made the right choice.
Yeah they did make the right choice, but they made it way too late. They shouldn't have allowed their players to qualify for the NASL.
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Nazgul said earlier that he thinks it's reasonable for the Koreans to try to preserve their scene, and I think that's a good point. It's likely a defensive measure by the Koreans to prolong the true explosion of ESPORTS outside their country. People still consider Korea the place to be, and if the NASL is truly competitive that might not be the case anymore, especially with the recent exodus of Koreans to pro-teams.
Give it another year and Koreans will be begging to play in American and European tournaments, they can't preserve their scene forever.
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On August 12 2011 12:55 dabom88 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 12:54 Redlol wrote:On August 12 2011 12:54 dabom88 wrote:
HERE'S A QUESTION TO NASL::
If you say that 2000 dollars should "more than cover" the expenses... then why not just agree to cover all the expenses? It would cost you less than 2000 dollars shouldn't it? Because the Koreans want more than expenses. Such as?
Read the OP
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glad to hear this news
koreans want unfair treatment, not cool.
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On August 12 2011 12:55 goswser wrote:
Wow why would they not come with an offer of a 2000 dollar stipend....thats just stupid, their winnings would more than cover their expenses.....
They shouldn't be put on an uneven footing for prize winnings just because NASL doesn't want to cover all their travel expenses. They want it to be like MLG that do just cover all the expenses of flight, hotel, transportation, and food.
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On August 12 2011 12:54 dabom88 wrote:
HERE'S A QUESTION TO NASL:
If you say that 2000 dollars should "more than cover" the expenses... then why not just agree to cover all the expenses? It would cost you less than 2000 dollars shouldn't it?
Really, if you claim that the offer is reasonable and that it should cover the player's expenses, why NOT just cover the player's expenses?
If they we're to do this then it could potentially cost them 3k. 2k for stipend and 1k for the winnings
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Jesus, how many people can't read? In the opening post, it is NOT a $2000 travel stipend. It is a COMBINED $2000 from $1000 top 16 guaranteed winnings and $1000 travel stipend.
Like I keep on saying, the price of the ticket and housing is more than $1000. In essence, NASL is asking Korean teams to take the earnings rightfully owed to them to pay for their travels.
Koreans are NOT asking for more, they are asking for their travels to be covered so that their tournament winnings are actually tournament winnings and not just roundabout travel payments.
So, if what they say is true and it's $1650 for travel + lodging, they're essentially arguing about who should pay that remaining $650, NASL or the players.
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im very interested to see if NASL will gain or lose viewers. Since alot of foreigners want "local talent" to rise and get rid of koreans in the NORTH AMERICAN Starleague. Most people do want Koreans in the tournament because it will just improve the quality so much. I've never been a real watcher of NASL b/c of time but I guess it's the nice to have some foreigner take tournament money.
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In response to this, the GSL is no longer on my "to watch" list.
It seems like many of these players and teams feel that it's perfectly reasonable that Foreign players pay extensively from their teams and their own pockets in order to compete in the GSL, but Korean players shouldn't have to stoop down to that level. Players like HuK, Naniwa, Jinro, possibly Thorzain and more are all staying in Korea, outside the main part of their teams and definitely somewhat out of their comfort zones in order to compete in Korea. Some of these players don't even speak Korean; haven't played on the Korean ladder for more than a week or two, and have dedicated a lot of time and money just to compete in the GSL. Why should Korean players be any different? We're their fans too. We want to see them play because they are awesome. But if their management feels that they're too good or too preoccupied so much that they're willing to spit on the dedication that Foreigners have to StarCraft, then I don't want to see them play anyways.
The NASL is one of the coolest tournaments I've ever seen come to life. It had its own share of problems early on but it all fell together pretty neatly in the end and had some seriously cool games come out of it. I think this is unfair to all players and fans of this game and it needs to be changed.
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On August 12 2011 11:45 eggs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 11:44 godemperor wrote:No oGs, Startale, WeMadeFox, TSL, Prime and now SLAYERS!!! NOOOO!!! WHY!!! Bought the ticket already, guess there's no way to refund is there? Wish I knew this before my purchase, no Slayers was just the last straw.  If NASL had any spine they would offer to refund pre-purchased tickets given the recent withdrawal of star players.
This. 90% of the people I bought the ticket to watch isn't in it anymore.
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On August 12 2011 12:58 Brian333 wrote:
Jesus, how many people can't read? In the opening post, it is NOT a $2000 travel stipend. It is a COMBINED $2000 from $1000 top 16 guaranteed winnings and $1000 travel stipend.
So? What do you want to bed that the players would fucking love to come to Korea to play for a probable 300$ guaranteed payout.
The teams are just trying to protect StarCraft in Korea. In time they will beg to play in our tournaments as they realize they can't hide forever.
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Comparing Dreamhack to NASL, there were fewer invites and players...not to mention, half the Koreans just decided not to go to Summer 2011 anyway. Also, there were the issues of latency and scheduling that have already been mentioned that I believe were not present at DH.
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I think this is ok, hopefully a huge prize pool will give incentive for NA and EU players to work alot harder and train to realize their full potential, hopefully to a point where they can compete at the Korean level.
Everybody has always said that if there is money, there should be competition, and now that there is money hopefully the competition will still remain. I see no reason why people wouldn't want to train hard with a potential full years salary as a first prize spot.
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On August 12 2011 12:58 magnaflow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 12:54 dabom88 wrote:
HERE'S A QUESTION TO NASL:
If you say that 2000 dollars should "more than cover" the expenses... then why not just agree to cover all the expenses? It would cost you less than 2000 dollars shouldn't it?
Really, if you claim that the offer is reasonable and that it should cover the player's expenses, why NOT just cover the player's expenses? If they we're to do this then it could potentially cost them 3k. 2k for stipend and 1k for the winnings
Then that's NASL's problem. Don't expect Koreans to make the trip if they don't want to cover their travel expenses.
Ultimately, though, I do agree that it should be up to the players to decide and not SC2con.
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To all the people saying, well just cover the koreans expenses fully, why should they get everything covered when the other players aren't? And I'm not painting the players as greedy, I'm saying the teams are being unreasonable.
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On August 12 2011 13:00 Slider954 wrote:
To all the people saying, well just cover the koreans expenses fully, why should they get everything covered when the other players aren't? And I'm not painting the players as greedy, I'm saying the teams are being unreasonable.
Unless I'm mistaken, all player's travel expenses were covered at NASL, not just Korean's.
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On August 12 2011 12:57 Redlol wrote:
Nazgul said earlier that he thinks it's reasonable for the Koreans to try to preserve their scene, and I think that's a good point. It's likely a defensive measure by the Koreans to prolong the true explosion of ESPORTS outside their country. People still consider Korea the place to be, and if the NASL is truly competitive that might not be the case anymore, especially with the recent exodus of Koreans to pro-teams.
Give it another year and Koreans will be begging to play in American and European tournaments, they can't preserve their scene forever.
Never read something so ridiculous. Koreans have preserved their starcraft scene for ten years with zero foreign help.
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On August 12 2011 12:59 Fubi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 11:45 eggs wrote:On August 12 2011 11:44 godemperor wrote:No oGs, Startale, WeMadeFox, TSL, Prime and now SLAYERS!!! NOOOO!!! WHY!!! Bought the ticket already, guess there's no way to refund is there? Wish I knew this before my purchase, no Slayers was just the last straw. If NASL had any spine they would offer to refund pre-purchased tickets given the recent withdrawal of star players. This. 90% of the people I bought the ticket to watch isn't in it anymore.
Then AT&T should give me my money back and expunge my contract for removing their all-star unlimited plan by this logic.
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bad news~~ korea has the best sc2 plarys in the world~~~
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EPT
