EPTKorean teams withdraw from NASL - Page 73
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snakeeyez
United States1231 Posts
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EricCartman
Canada306 Posts
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zipz0p
United States123 Posts
On August 12 2011 12:40 magnaflow wrote: Can you imagine if this happened to MLG next? Think about it, sc2con does have the upper hand here. MLG does pay for travel expenses as part of the GSL/MLG exchange. | ||
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Disquiet
Australia628 Posts
On August 12 2011 12:36 ke_ivan wrote: Yeah Korea is far away from pretty much everywhere and the cost to fly is expensive. So I'm not surprised they pulled out - they probably don't have the upfront cash. They did do this late though, so bad planning there. Even if they went on a young person's ticket, that would cost US$1250. A weak US Dollar obviously helps, but imagine if you were MC and your team wanted to fly you once a month out the NASL. Even 2k per player wouldn't be enough, and that doesn't even include expenses like lodging and food. The only reasonable thing to do would be to pull out. I'm not saying that they should've, but NASL and the teams should've considered this already. Aren't the managers supposed to the number crunching first? That's why FXO has a wonderful model - think of it as a business subsidiary: FXOKorea and FXO. Look all the financial excuses are BS. Plane tickets are 1500 return at the most. With this prizing they will be making a profit even if they lose in the first round. The concern might be upfront cash. Well I think Koreans need to learn what a loan is, when you have guaranteed income to repay the loan in the future theres no risk of excessive ongoing interest payments from a loan. Its collective bargaining from sc2con to try and get more than they deserve. You see this kind of thing all the time with unions and in the end everyone loses. | ||
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tripper688
United States569 Posts
1.) $2000 barely covers travelling expenses minus room and board. 2.) Last time around they were playing in pretty bad conditions with bad lag and crazy early games. And there's nothing NA about the NASL aside from location. A ton of players are European as well, I don't see anyone saying they have a problem with MorroW or TLO because they're not from NA. On August 12 2011 08:30 Redlol wrote: We should probably stop calling GSL the GSL, lets just call it a StarCraft League in Korea. The only tournament that has legitimately tried to globalize itself and do so in a fair manner is NASL. Even the MLG-GSL partnership is riddled with rules, regulations, and by-laws which prevent it from really being global. Anyone is open to going to Korea and trying out for GSL no? How is that not being global? Is it GOM's fault if players burn out and just can't keep up and decide to go home? Not to mention with MLG/GSL...aren't those players getting a free ride at this point? And how do you describe scheduling Koreans to play at 6 in the morning with heavier lag while NA/EU players play in afternoon and evening to be any fairer than what GOM has done? They even tried to reorganize the schedule of Code A for foreigners no? On August 12 2011 08:14 NASL.tv wrote: BoxeR already declined participation (his withdrawal came before the SC2Con decision, but for similar reasons) For everyone talking about SlayerS and BoxeR ^^^^ On August 12 2011 08:14 bkrow wrote: I will watch and enjoy; there seems to be a strange amount of elitism coming across in the post. I get a sense of "Us Koreans shouldn't have to pay" but that may just my cynicism. From the post it seems NASL went to extraodinary lengths to accommodate the Korean participates but they just wouldn't play ball. I am sure this is not the end of the issue. I don't think this is entirely accurate. The last batch of foreign invites from GOM are getting a free ride and an equal playing field in Korea. GOM even went out of their way to get foreigners into the schedule when it became apparent that they were doing other tournaments as well. Compared to that, given the scheduling and latency issues that the Koreans had to deal with last time as well as the fact that $2000 barely covers the plane ticket, would you still say the Koreans are being too elitist? Is the NASL really going to such extraordinary lengths? | ||
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Dr.Sin
Canada1126 Posts
On August 12 2011 12:43 zipz0p wrote: MLG does pay for travel expenses as part of the GSL/MLG exchange. And the favor is returned by stacking all the foreigners in the exchange together. | ||
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WesleyLok
Canada99 Posts
If you read the brackets you can see that they're only going to pay 1000, the rest will be taken out of the korean players winnings.... so yea I wouldn't agree to that either. | ||
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magnaflow
Canada1521 Posts
On August 12 2011 12:43 zipz0p wrote: MLG does pay for travel expenses as part of the GSL/MLG exchange. Exactly, and they are trying to do the same thing with the NASL. As bad as this may sound Koreans are in high demand for foreign events. How much are we willing to pay to have them? Money in the bank in my eyes. Teams are broke, sponsors aren't there, they somehow have to make money in order to continue. What would anyone do in that position? "You want our players participating in your tournament? How much you willing to spend to get them there?" This is just the beginning I fear. | ||
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dabom88
United States3483 Posts
On August 12 2011 12:40 magnaflow wrote: Can you imagine if this happened to MLG next? Think about it, sc2con does have the upper hand here. MLG DOES cover all their travel expenses, or so I understand. They don't have to pull any of this Stipend crap and just pays for their flight and hotel. What freaking financial incentive is there if you stand to win less money than the other participants just because you're from Korea? The deposit thing IS very unreasonable on the Korean's part, though. They probably don't have quite a good understanding of how it works or something. | ||
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nicknt
185 Posts
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Slider954
United States342 Posts
On August 12 2011 12:38 Brian333 wrote: Apparently, you missed my earlier post. You know why the OP should not do that? Because it's deceptively disingenuous and biased to try and tack that price onto the trip. The cost of plane tickets swings wildly depending on when you book it and how long in advance you book it. If I were to try and jump on a plane on Monday from Incheon International Airport to LAX, it would cost me nearly $3500 before taxes for a non-refundable multiple stop round-trip economy class ticket. Go check for yourself on the United Airlines website. Realistically speaking, booking about a month in advance during off-season will drop that price to $1200 before taxes. Still more than their travel stipend. And, that's assuming that the player can even book his flight a month in advance as if there is some guarantee that he will still be going a month later (there is none). Refundable tickets are significantly more expensive and I do not know the policies on canceling reservations beyond the 24-hour cut off but I have a suspicion it's not cheap. Booking a week in advance brings it up to $1600 before taxes. Brian, don't know if you saw this post earlier from the NASL poster , going to assume you missed it: I can answer this question. We paid for Korean players to come to NASL Season 1. We bought tickets for MC, PuMa, Zenio, and Squirtle. We paid $1,192 for each ticket. The hotel cost was $353 for the entire event. Travel cost was about $80 per person (shuttle service to and from). This averages out about $1650, factoring in meals ($50 per day even) ... giving each player $2,000 should cover that. The 2k they offered was more than enough then and I don't see why it would be any different for season 2. | ||
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whateverpeeps
United States214 Posts
On August 12 2011 12:40 magnaflow wrote: Can you imagine if this happened to MLG next? Think about it, sc2con does have the upper hand here. It won't happen to MLG, but I can see this happening to a league like TSL. I think that's why it's important that NASL is making a stand. Let's assume they actually have the money to give in. By giving in, they only feed the notion that committee can harass tournament organizers for benefits by threatening last minute pull-outs. If we want SC2 to grow globally, that's not how you conduct business. The West has extended a hand to Korea by asking their players to participate. Korea now needs to be more willing to work with the West and not be so guarded. Being guarded will only worsen the situation of lack of sponsorships in Korea for teams and players. It is a backwards and obsolete to fight to maintain a Korean superiority when it comes to SC2, because the scene is rapidly expanding to Europe and the West. If they truly wanted to be successful, they would start capitalizing on this now, rather than try to fight it. | ||
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JoeSchmoe
Canada2058 Posts
On August 12 2011 12:30 dAPhREAk wrote: there is no admission fee; it is free. as for effort and time, so what? its a tournament. you don't show up and ask for your check. everyone risks their "time and effort." also, the travel expenses apply to all non-US citizens (and some who live on the east coast of US). I agree that it may not be worth their time and money to come to the US for a tournament (although at $40k for first, thats a questionable decision if you are a good player). I have no problem with them deciding not to go. i have a problem with them expecting that NASL subsidize them; treatment not received by other players. everyone risks time and effort but like I said it's a disadvantage to play at shitty times and deal with latency (precisely one of the reasons among others why Jinro and Huk did not participate in S1). travel expenses from korea to USA is also much greater than national flight fares. also another thing you completely misunderstood. the koreans are the ones lobbying for a bigger budget in travel expenses but the changes if any made by NASL is applied to all participants who make it into the the playoffs. One of their offers was to redistribute the prize pool to give everyone an additional $1000 for just making it into ro16. it won't be "special" treatment for the koreans. if anything this is a positive change for all participants. if you live in the US and don't need the travel money, you basically make some extra cash. like i said the only problem i have with the koreans is this late notification which is unprofessional. they should've decided on this sooner. | ||
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Ravnemesteren
224 Posts
The Korean scene seems juvenile to me. And they don't seem to have any business sense. It all seems so idiotic when thinking about mr Chae's post where he critized foreigners for not wanting to live in Korea for GSL. He made a point out of saying that any Korean player would gladly travel abroad to compete in a large tournament. Hypocritcal BS. | ||
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EnSky
Philippines1003 Posts
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dookudooku
255 Posts
On August 12 2011 12:41 jmbthirteen wrote: Its ridiculous to ask NASL to cover it. I think NASL's offer is generous, and I do not think s2con is being greedy. You can't blame them for asking NASL to cover it. Teams are not on equal financial footing. They don't have sponsers that will pay the cost of sending a player overseas. When travel costs are not covered, disputes among players and teams over who pays those costs are inevitable. | ||
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Archvil3
Denmark989 Posts
It seems pretty brutal to me, pulling out last second because they cant have it exactly like they want it, despite already signing contracts etc? Is it some kind of revenge act towards the international scene EG/TSL Puma drama to make a statement they and only they make the rules? | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
On August 12 2011 12:38 Brian333 wrote: Apparently, you missed my earlier post. You know why the OP should not do that? Because it's deceptively disingenuous and biased to try and tack that price onto the trip. The cost of plane tickets swings wildly depending on when you book it and how long in advance you book it. If I were to try and jump on a plane on Monday from Incheon International Airport to LAX, it would cost me nearly $3500 before taxes for a non-refundable multiple stop round-trip economy class ticket. Go check for yourself on the United Airlines website. Realistically speaking, booking about a month in advance during off-season will drop that price to $1200 before taxes. Still more than their travel stipend. And, that's assuming that the player can even book his flight a month in advance as if there is some guarantee that he will still be going a month later (there is none). Refundable tickets are significantly more expensive and I do not know the policies on canceling reservations beyond the 24-hour cut off but I have a suspicion it's not cheap. Booking a week in advance brings it up to $1600 before taxes. this is great information on the actual cost of "travel" ~o~;;; | ||
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KOFgokuon
United States14892 Posts
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tripper688
United States569 Posts
On August 12 2011 12:44 Disquiet wrote: Look all the financial excuses are BS. Plane tickets are 1500 return at the most. With this prizing they will be making a profit even if they lose in the first round. The concern might be upfront cash. Well I think Koreans need to learn what a loan is, when you have guaranteed income to repay the loan in the future theres no risk of excessive ongoing interest payments from a loan. Its collective bargaining from sc2con to try and get more than they deserve. You see this kind of thing all the time with unions and in the end everyone loses. How is it getting more than they deserve when their biggest league is shipping foreigners to play in their tournaments for free, as well as housing them, giving them equal opportunity in the tournaments, and rescheduling their groups just so the foreigners can participate in an extra couple of tournies? As for money being BS...$1500 for plane ticket alone, not counting room, board, further traveling costs once on the ground, that adds up for poorer teams. | ||
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