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This might very well be why Hero is now with oGS. I.E. : to bypass that foolish decision by SC2Con.
As a matter of fact, decisions like this one might push more and more koreans to sign up with foreign teams.
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On August 12 2011 11:08 Veritask wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 11:07 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 12 2011 11:05 Veritask wrote:On August 12 2011 10:34 NASL.tv wrote:On August 12 2011 10:31 epik640x wrote:On August 12 2011 08:34 NASL.tv wrote:On August 12 2011 08:31 masterbreti wrote:
tbh good for the Koreans for sticking to their guns.
Has anyone here auctally tried to caculate the cost of a 1 week trip to cali from seoul and back. its damn expensive. Being almost 3k with hotel and airfare and such. For the chance at $500, which would still lose them $500 if NASL paid 2k.
I can understand why the teams would do this tbh. They are not in a healthy state in Korea and of course they would want people to pay, since they can't temselves. I can answer this question. We paid for Korean players to come to NASL Season 1. We bought tickets for MC, PuMa, Zenio, and Squirtle. We paid $1,192 for each ticket. The hotel cost was $353 for the entire event. Travel cost was about $80 per person (shuttle service to and from). This averages out about $1650, factoring in meals ($50 per day even) ... giving each player $2,000 should cover that. $1,192 for a ticket is just one way though, right? Round trip is usually almost $3,000. So $2,000 wouldn't nearly be enough. Nope -- $1,192 round trip. Alright, if it doesn't cost over $2000 why wouldn't NASL agree to pay 100%? they agreed to pay $2000 ($1000 stipend; $1000 guaranteed prize money). what are you smoking? If you read the OP, it says the Korean demands were for NASL to pay 100% of travel stipends, which NASL didn't agree to.
Because that formulation in clearest possible way prevents Koreans from demanding anything else at the last moment.
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Wow, how come so much hate against Mr. Chae and Gom TV? People are so fickle these days. Mr. Chae has been so helpful for the Starcraft community and it seems he was just caught in the crossfire.
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Thinking about this situation more NASL is really the one losing out here..... They have the potential to become the premier international league but without the koreans I don't see that happening. The only way I see this working is if one way or another they have at least 6-8 koreans participating.
Really disappointing that SC2con didn't work it out but also wish NASL had deep enough pockets to give into covering all their costs........
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as people have said before in this thread, I don't have a big problem with this either. I do like to see some of our non-korean pros go up against other koreans, but lets be honest here. Basicaly every tournament that koreans have attended (with the exception of DH) have been dominated by koreans. The finals usualy end up beeing koreans vs koreans, but I get my share of that kind of action from the GSL. Just this MLG koreans took places 6th - 1st, and while I'm sure we can all appriciate the skill of these players, the matches usualy end up very similar to the GSL matches.
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This is news to me, I'm pretty disappointed - not that the Koreans pulled out but that they gave really short notice. That's not good for anyone.
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On August 12 2011 11:21 Lamphead wrote:
i think we need to hear the Korean Team side of this instead of NASL's side to get the full story You mean in addition to, right, not instead of?
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Brunei Darussalam24 Posts
On August 12 2011 11:21 thedz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 11:21 88FuZiLeiRo wrote:
Bad for NASL, sad for the e-Sports scenario at all...
I still think the Koreans are VERY wrong at this point, 2000$ for each player, in an e-Sports tournament is too much, more than enough for accomodation and the travel itself... Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 11:19 Brian333 wrote:
I'm not totally sure about this as I'm usually not the one directly buying or arranging the flights I take between Asia and the US but $1000 is definitely not enough and given the circumstances, $2000 might not be nearly enough either when including hotel fees. Keep in mind that it's a $1000 stipend plus $1000 prize. And the ticket alone will almost certainly be more than $1000. So they'd be essentially be using their own money (earned from over 9 weeks of pool play) to help pay for travel.
Basically meaning, if they're lucky they'll break even after 2 months of playing. It's a waste of their time and money to play.
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On August 12 2011 11:22 ptbl wrote:
Wow, how come so much hate against Mr. Chae and Gom TV? People are so fickle these days. Mr. Chae has been so helpful for the Starcraft community and it seems he was just caught in the crossfire.
It happened in Korea too >o<
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253750¤tpage=54#1077
Actually, maybe NASL should make a note in the OP like the translator did at PlayXP. Make it clear Mr. Chae was more an intermediary than an actual part of the decision making (although this is just an assumption, too...)
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Why was it impossible to redistribute the prize pool, so that instead of 40k grand prize, use some of that to get top tier players.
Why would you shoot yourself in the foot regarding viewership. The koreans aren't coming because they know you have to bend over backwards to get them here, or your viewership will suffer.
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Don't worry, you can be successful without the Koreans as well. You will be able to get them nxt season with ( 4-5 invites ) North American E-sports pride, don't give up and work hard! You have my full support! ( i will try to watch )
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Let's hear from both parties before passing any judgment please.
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On August 12 2011 11:15 MildSeven wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 11:12 Deception-35 wrote:On August 12 2011 10:44 DueSs wrote:
Well, I'm MORE interested in Season 2. Buying a pass. i will definitely buy the pass. im actually more exited with them out of it. I guess you enjoy watching medicore play that you can keep up with intellectually.
Lol, because excitement is about intellect ? Excitement is emotional thing and if you could not care less about Korean players their matches might be intelectually more beautiful, yet less exciting. Also your condescending post about Starcraft appreciation shows that the intellectual problems are probably not on the side of the guy you respond to.
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Losing the Koreans is bad, and will lower the level of the competition, but lets not forget how amazing it is to even have Koreans in a tournament, especially ones based in North America. NASL did amazing job of getting sooooo many Koreans the first season and it made it great, and really helped launch the whole tournament to what it is today, where it doesn't need the Koreans to remain popular. So I'm sad to see to them go, but I think we're going to still have a kick-ass season 2!
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On August 12 2011 11:17 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 11:05 Talin wrote:On August 12 2011 10:50 esotericc wrote:On August 12 2011 10:47 Talin wrote:On August 12 2011 10:39 esotericc wrote:
As more time goes on I am getting more and more sick of the korean scenes overall attitude. Could just be a vocal minority but they sure do believe their proverbial crap don't stink.
Considering the foreign scene is much larger than korea in regards to SC2 I feel we owe them nothing at all and they should jump at a chance to give themselves a stronger foot hold in the foreign scene. Foreign scene isn't larger than Korean scene. Strength of a scene is measured by quality and skill of players because that is the only real long-term value. Everything else (tournaments, prize money etc) is just temporary, it's basically an inflated bubble. This very thread proves that best. Korean scene in SC2 did a LOT for the foreign scene. They're basically offering free entry in the highest level professional competition in the world, something that western Brood War progamers (who couldn't even manage to earn a progaming LICENCE, let alone qualify for anything significant) would have killed for back in the day. We owe them quite a bit actually. I understand your point of view and appreciate where you are coming from but in my opinion strength of scene comes with the money being invested into the players and events. You can have as many amazing players in korea that you want but if they only have 1 big competition, no upcoming events other than that one and they refuse to be part of the rest of the worlds events then their scene won't grow. Just because we enjoy watching them doesn't mean they are going to be picking up sponsors outside of korea if they refuse to leave. Then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.  From everything I've seen by following Korean BW and keeping an eye on some e-sport attempts in the west, I have to say that right now I'm nearly convinced that you can't build e-sports with money. Money, show and sponsorships can come into it when you already have an intense level of competition, passion and following and when you have players demonstrating skill that the audience can really appreciate. Speaking of sponsors, while I can agree with your statement, have you also considered that without interest and without a sufficiently high level of competition, western sponsors may soon no longer be interested in western tournaments either? Foreign scene does not justify $20k+ prize pool tournaments in the long run. On the other hand, whether SC2 grows in Korea is mostly up to Korea. They're pretty much an e-sport country (as much as a country can be), so if the game is pushed through the right channels there's plenty of sponsorship money to go around within Korea. It's not the lack of western sponsors that slowed down the growth of SC2 in Korea, it was mostly the internal factors (and Blizzard). Nope. Prize pools are determined by viewership or rather specifically by sponsors calculating if sponsorship will pay itself. So it is purely determined by size and demographics of viewership. The "Foreign scene does not justify $20k+ prize pool tournaments in the long run." is therefore quite strange statement. In what way does it not justify the prize pool ?
That's one part of it - it won't attract the viewers. Take a look at IPL stream to the right, it's 12k viewers for probably the most exciting set of matches so far this season (featuring Ret, Thorzain, Idra and WhiteRa)
Second and bigger part of the point is that you can organize a $15k tournament and a $100k tournament, and both tournaments will attract the same quality of players (basically most top foreign players out of Korea) and the same number of viewers. So why would you waste $85k that you don't need to?
Sure you could argue that it's about sustaining the e-sport in the long run, but western sponsors aren't here for the long run. They don't actually own Starcraft teams, TV stations and the whole infrastructure like in Korea, they don't care if 5 years from now it dies out (they'll just find something else that's popular to sponsor).
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On August 12 2011 11:22 ptbl wrote:
Wow, how come so much hate against Mr. Chae and Gom TV? People are so fickle these days. Mr. Chae has been so helpful for the Starcraft community and it seems he was just caught in the crossfire.
Just a case of people shooting the messenger; it seemed from the OP a bit like Mr. Chae was speaking on behalf of SC2Con and therefore part of the decision-making process, even if he apparently (as Xeris said) was trying to get SC2Con to come to an agreement with NASL.
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On August 12 2011 11:24 Boomy123 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 11:21 thedz wrote:On August 12 2011 11:21 88FuZiLeiRo wrote:
Bad for NASL, sad for the e-Sports scenario at all...
I still think the Koreans are VERY wrong at this point, 2000$ for each player, in an e-Sports tournament is too much, more than enough for accomodation and the travel itself... On August 12 2011 11:19 Brian333 wrote:
I'm not totally sure about this as I'm usually not the one directly buying or arranging the flights I take between Asia and the US but $1000 is definitely not enough and given the circumstances, $2000 might not be nearly enough either when including hotel fees. Keep in mind that it's a $1000 stipend plus $1000 prize. And the ticket alone will almost certainly be more than $1000. So they'd be essentially be using their own money (earned from over 9 weeks of pool play) to help pay for travel. Basically meaning, if they're lucky they'll break even after 2 months of playing. It's a waste of their time and money to play.
yes, that is true. but it is the same for everyone. why should one group receive different treatment? sen is in taiwan; white ra in ukraine. why should they have to bear more risk?
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On August 12 2011 11:25 Omegastorm wrote:
Don't worry, you can be successful without the Koreans as well. You will be able to get them nxt season with ( 4-5 invites ) North American E-sports pride, don't give up and work hard! You have my full support! ( i will try to watch )
Optimism is nice but I'm not sure sure about that. There's a reason there was a Korean playing during almost every scheduled stream time at MLG. Top players draw viewers.
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On August 12 2011 11:27 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 11:24 Boomy123 wrote:On August 12 2011 11:21 thedz wrote:On August 12 2011 11:21 88FuZiLeiRo wrote:
Bad for NASL, sad for the e-Sports scenario at all...
I still think the Koreans are VERY wrong at this point, 2000$ for each player, in an e-Sports tournament is too much, more than enough for accomodation and the travel itself... On August 12 2011 11:19 Brian333 wrote:
I'm not totally sure about this as I'm usually not the one directly buying or arranging the flights I take between Asia and the US but $1000 is definitely not enough and given the circumstances, $2000 might not be nearly enough either when including hotel fees. Keep in mind that it's a $1000 stipend plus $1000 prize. And the ticket alone will almost certainly be more than $1000. So they'd be essentially be using their own money (earned from over 9 weeks of pool play) to help pay for travel. Basically meaning, if they're lucky they'll break even after 2 months of playing. It's a waste of their time and money to play. yes, that is true. but it is the same for everyone. why should one group receive different treatment? sen is in taiwan; white ra in ukraine. why should they have to bear more risk?
They have different teams with different sponsors, and no commitments to the GSL schedule.
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EPT
