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On August 13 2011 04:18 muddymuddy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 04:07 BlueFlames wrote:On August 13 2011 04:04 gehgrfhgrh wrote:On August 13 2011 00:02 aeoliant wrote:
too bad for both sides I don't see why it should be bad for the korean players. they're losing nothing! You are absolutely right. Puma and MMA would be sooooooooooo much more popular if they had just stayed in korea and never played a foreign tournament ... Your logic is flawed. Still .... live long and prosper i guess ^^ I disagree. I would argue they lose a lot. There can only come positive things from getting Western/global sponsors for your team and players, and the best way to do that is through participation in Western/global tournaments. I think PuMa is a perfect example of why participating in global tournaments is advantageous.
Sorry to disappoint you, but i thought i made it clear that i was very sarcastic in this post. Refering to the post i quoted, i made a very sarcastic post to highlight how untrue his claim was. I really need a sarcasm or irony smily on here. But i agree 100% with your post :-)
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If the NASL were to give in to these demands where would it end. If they could flex their muscles with this organization who else could they do it with.
Who cares about lack of sponsorship if they can just strongarm any foreign event to eventually make a profit.
Soon enough we will see Korean players being paid just to participate in foreign events. While anyone not from Korea will end up paying a larger sum to participate to make up for the losses.
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On August 13 2011 04:03 NASL.tv wrote:
TeeTS -- the offer is // was on the table (even during Season 1) where we would take care of everything and deduct it from what they received in terms of stipends // prize.
To clarify, if the cost of travel you covered exceeded the stipends + prize, then you wouldn't try to charge the team for the difference, correct?
If true, then the only cost paid by Korean teams would be for food, which teams already cover for their players. If the Korean players lose, then their team is out <$100. If they place well, then the players would stand to make a lot of money.
This simply doesn't make financial sense for the Koreans to pull out. I suspect that worries about foreign teams attracting players has a lot to do with this. I doubt it will work though, as now Korean players have new incentive to leave for foreign teams: the chance to take part in the NASL and win big money (especially now that much of the best competition has been removed from NASL).
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On August 13 2011 04:32 Zinthar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 04:03 NASL.tv wrote:
TeeTS -- the offer is // was on the table (even during Season 1) where we would take care of everything and deduct it from what they received in terms of stipends // prize. To clarify, if the cost of travel you covered exceeded the stipends + prize, then you wouldn't try to charge the team for the difference, correct? If true, then the only cost paid by Korean teams would be for food, which teams already cover for their players. If the Korean players lose, then their team is out <$100. If they place well, then the players would stand to make a lot of money. This simply doesn't make financial sense for the Koreans to pull out. I suspect that worries about foreign teams attracting players has a lot to do with this. I doubt it will work though, as now Korean players have new incentive to leave for foreign teams: the chance to take part in the NASL and win big money (especially now that much of the best competition has been removed from NASL).
Honestly, I suspect this is much less of a financial decision and much more of a personal one. The two sides simply do not like or respect one another, and so no arrangement can be formed. SC2Con doesn't care about a few bucks, they're just acting very principled because they feel like the way they're being treated is not worth the hassle and expense.
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On August 13 2011 04:34 Cel.erity wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 04:32 Zinthar wrote:On August 13 2011 04:03 NASL.tv wrote:
TeeTS -- the offer is // was on the table (even during Season 1) where we would take care of everything and deduct it from what they received in terms of stipends // prize. To clarify, if the cost of travel you covered exceeded the stipends + prize, then you wouldn't try to charge the team for the difference, correct? If true, then the only cost paid by Korean teams would be for food, which teams already cover for their players. If the Korean players lose, then their team is out <$100. If they place well, then the players would stand to make a lot of money. This simply doesn't make financial sense for the Koreans to pull out. I suspect that worries about foreign teams attracting players has a lot to do with this. I doubt it will work though, as now Korean players have new incentive to leave for foreign teams: the chance to take part in the NASL and win big money (especially now that much of the best competition has been removed from NASL). Honestly, I suspect this is much less of a financial decision and much more of a personal one. The two sides simply do not like or respect one another, and so no arrangement can be formed. SC2Con doesn't care about a few bucks, they're just acting very principled because they feel like the way they're being treated is not worth the hassle and expense.
Unfortunately for SC2Con, their players have a demonstrated interest in competing in foreign competitions and leagues, as well as meeting their foreign fans.
Korean SC2 pros stream for their fans more than ever before, and have greater ability to earn money outside of Korea (top Code S pros aside). Additionally, many foreign teams are well-managed and have strong sponsors and would love to sign more Koreans to their teams.
I think SC2Con will simply end up costing Korean teams much of their up and coming talent and there will end up being a large contingent of Korean players on foreign teams. Puma & Hero are the beginning of a trend.
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Does anyone know who makes up the SC2Con?
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On August 13 2011 04:43 Azzur wrote:
Does anyone know who makes up the SC2Con?
all the current Korean sc2 teams as far as i know
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On August 13 2011 04:44 SmoKim wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 04:43 Azzur wrote:
Does anyone know who makes up the SC2Con? all the current Korean sc2 teams as far as i know
I believe SlayerS is not part of it.
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On August 13 2011 04:43 Azzur wrote:
Does anyone know who makes up the SC2Con?
I've seen it posted somewhere but can't find it via google.
Basically though it's an organization of SC2 Player coaches, SC2 Teams and SC2 Tournament organizers. Not every team is a member, such as SlayerS. But the idea was to have more collaboration between the players, teams and leagues and less KeSPA.
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i respect there choice (becuase its there choice) but over all i believe it was very greedy by them to demand especially when it was wayyyy too late. I hate to come off sounding lik e i know it all, but the fact is the korean players/coaches may think that the only reason these events are whatched, are because the koreans, im still going to whatch becuase the foreignors will some day catch up to the koreans but it will be very shortly. gl nasl i will still whatch you.
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So many people are hypocritical in this community. People got upset when Koreans got upset about EG taking puma from TSL, people said "oh Korean should be more business savvy and know better than too have a player not under contract". And now NASL makes a post painting SC2con and Korean teams and players in a negative light, all to gather sympathy from the foreigner community.
Seriously, why couldn't NASL have maintained their "professionalism" and simply state that neither side could reach a agreement. People know that a lot of Korean teams don't have a lot of funds and sponsors, so why do you have to post a thread acting like your the victim of greedy Koreans.
If the teams didn't want to participate in NASL because they think American food sucks, is that not their right to decline participation? From a business stand point it shouldn't matter what the reason why they declined only that they did and you move on. To make a thread and putting all the blame on the Koreans is immature and unprofessional. I hope NASL knows they have probably burnt a bridge that didn't need to be.
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On August 13 2011 04:42 Zinthar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 04:34 Cel.erity wrote:On August 13 2011 04:32 Zinthar wrote:On August 13 2011 04:03 NASL.tv wrote:
TeeTS -- the offer is // was on the table (even during Season 1) where we would take care of everything and deduct it from what they received in terms of stipends // prize. To clarify, if the cost of travel you covered exceeded the stipends + prize, then you wouldn't try to charge the team for the difference, correct? If true, then the only cost paid by Korean teams would be for food, which teams already cover for their players. If the Korean players lose, then their team is out <$100. If they place well, then the players would stand to make a lot of money. This simply doesn't make financial sense for the Koreans to pull out. I suspect that worries about foreign teams attracting players has a lot to do with this. I doubt it will work though, as now Korean players have new incentive to leave for foreign teams: the chance to take part in the NASL and win big money (especially now that much of the best competition has been removed from NASL). Honestly, I suspect this is much less of a financial decision and much more of a personal one. The two sides simply do not like or respect one another, and so no arrangement can be formed. SC2Con doesn't care about a few bucks, they're just acting very principled because they feel like the way they're being treated is not worth the hassle and expense. Unfortunately for SC2Con, their players have a demonstrated interest in competing in foreign competitions and leagues, as well as meeting their foreign fans. Korean SC2 pros stream for their fans more than ever before, and have greater ability to earn money outside of Korea (top Code S pros aside). Additionally, many foreign teams are well-managed and have strong sponsors and would love to sign more Koreans to their teams. I think SC2Con will simply end up costing Korean teams much of their up and coming talent and there will end up being a large contingent of Korean players on foreign teams. Puma & Hero are the beginning of a trend.
I agree; this is a really unfortunate situation for everyone involved, and much like two arguing parents, the children are the ones that get hurt the most. Then again, don't forget that the NASL is the most inconvenient tournament for Koreans to participate in, so I'm sure the players have some mixed feelings in whether it's enjoyable or not.
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Well, I suppose Catz gets his wish: it really is the North American Starleague now.
I've already bought my ticket so I'll watch and see how the competition shapes up without the Koreans. It should be a little more dramatic, to be honest.
As for the whos/whats/whys: I think it should be noted that in the last three 'scandals' the TL initial response has been wrong on all three occasions and later more details came out that changed the general opinion. Twice bitten, twice shy, maybe?
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Why bother, this is a good news, last MLGs were awful due to koreans dominating, we can watch gsl to see them, and we want our own foreign scene, dont need koreans at all, they coming here for free money t.t
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Hell, I'm still watching it. I thought season 1 was great but would've like to see more foreigners in it. Great thing I can this time!
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On August 13 2011 05:04 SySLeif wrote:
Hell, I'm still watching it. I thought season 1 was great but would've like to see more foreigners in it. Great thing I can this time!
what he said...
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On August 13 2011 05:04 SySLeif wrote:
Hell, I'm still watching it. I thought season 1 was great but would've like to see more foreigners in it. Great thing I can this time!
Yep, I also agree with this. I already bought my season 2 pass and I'm still really excited for the league to start.
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Koreans are ruining eSports.
(but in all honesty this is hurting eSports a little).
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On August 13 2011 04:48 ERG`ROB wrote:
i respect there choice (becuase its there choice) but over all i believe it was very greedy by them to demand especially when it was wayyyy too late. I hate to come off sounding lik e i know it all, but the fact is the korean players/coaches may think that the only reason these events are whatched, are because the koreans, im still going to whatch becuase the foreignors will some day catch up to the koreans but it will be very shortly. gl nasl i will still whatch you.
Don't forget that the teams have limited sponsor money, and the players (as far as i know) don't get a salary in korea. They get a house and food from the team and the money they make is from tournaments. Now i have no idea what the cost for travel and stay is for koreans, but the teams cannot afford to make a loss on travel so i do understand why the TEAMS would withdraw the players.
Note that it is not the players who don't want to participate.
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I find it sad that people say they wont watch NASL without Korean in it, if NA is to compete on
equal footing with Koreans one day we have to support the leagues where our player will
compete.
Well for this seaon il be buying NASL instead of GomTv.
I also dont get why people dis on the games played by our players or in our tournament.. MLGs final.. Amazing Dreamhack, Homestory cup.. awesome, TSL 3 Epic, NASL Finals Also Epic. And in some of them, there was no koreans.
While in korea.. Every Single GSL Final Was a One Sidded Boring Series.
The best players dosent always mean the best games.
I also hope that the foreign teams will offer koreans support again. I bet many korean players are pissed that they cant go win "Easy money". If EgPuma win it again and come back to korea with a
diamond tiped in one hand and a bag of money in the other maybe some of them will change their mind about declining offers from teams outside korea.
I dont blame What NASL did, they tried but if you cant put more money you just cant. If you think
otherwise.. Well call NASL and give them your credit cards number and pay for the korean to
come yourself.
Anyway i hope people who said they would not watch nasl if it lacked top koreans will change
their mind or else, eventualy the sponsors who pay for our team and our tounaments will lose
interest and lets face it sc2 is not super healthy in korea, since they cant even afford to pay
half of a plane ticket for the players who will qualify. Im not saying sc2 is dying in korea, but
its slow to take off for real.
For now, the money is our on side of the map and if we want to keep it that way, we have to
support what is done here.
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EPT
