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On August 13 2011 05:11 Elthreann wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 04:48 ERG`ROB wrote:
i respect there choice (becuase its there choice) but over all i believe it was very greedy by them to demand especially when it was wayyyy too late. I hate to come off sounding lik e i know it all, but the fact is the korean players/coaches may think that the only reason these events are whatched, are because the koreans, im still going to whatch becuase the foreignors will some day catch up to the koreans but it will be very shortly. gl nasl i will still whatch you. Don't forget that the teams have limited sponsor money, and the players (as far as i know) don't get a salary in korea. They get a house and food from the team and the money they make is from tournaments. Now i have no idea what the cost for travel and stay is for koreans, but the teams cannot afford to make a loss on travel so i do understand why the TEAMS would withdraw the players. Note that it is not the players who don't want to participate.
Then why did they sign contracts for season 2 and then back out, essentially breaching their contract.
From the other thread discussing this:
NASL.TV:
WeMadeFox contract signed July 25th. Prime contracted signed July 26th. oGs contracts signed July 26th. So from the period in which they were signed (July 25-26), it took TEN days for Mr.Chae (not even a person from SC2Con) to tell me that the Korean players had issues. After I responded, it took another FIVE days (August 9th) for Mr.Chae to notify the NASL that Koreans would not play in Season 2.
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Financially, there's no real reason to pull out, the Koreans are starved for tournaments, and if they stand to break-even at the very least from this tournament then it would make sense for them to attend. I think it's more a question of the time they'd have to put in to get to final and there is probably an aversion to the idea of a security deposit.
Regardless, really unfortunate for all the parties involved, the Koreans would have stood to make a good bit of money and the foreign fans would have gotten some good games and story out of it.
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On August 13 2011 04:48 DNA61289 wrote:
So many people are hypocritical in this community. People got upset when Koreans got upset about EG taking puma from TSL, people said "oh Korean should be more business savvy and know better than too have a player not under contract". And now NASL makes a post painting SC2con and Korean teams and players in a negative light, all to gather sympathy from the foreigner community.
Seriously, why couldn't NASL have maintained their "professionalism" and simply state that neither side could reach a agreement. People know that a lot of Korean teams don't have a lot of funds and sponsors, so why do you have to post a thread acting like your the victim of greedy Koreans.
If the teams didn't want to participate in NASL because they think American food sucks, is that not their right to decline participation? From a business stand point it shouldn't matter what the reason why they declined only that they did and you move on. To make a thread and putting all the blame on the Koreans is immature and unprofessional. I hope NASL knows they have probably burnt a bridge that didn't need to be.
Sure, the Korean teams have the right to decline. The fans also have the right to be disappointed that those teams punted after being offered $2k per player to show up.
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I think giving each player 2.000 $ is a fair offer. Don't think that that doesn't cover their costs. There must be something more to it. Maybe they just don't like the format of the event and weird playing times.
I have to admit that I also do not like the format and I am not convinced by the casters. Paying for vods was never an option for me. On the other hand I bought tickets for the first few GSL season. The format was entertaining, casters were awesome. I think there is still a lot to learn from the korean scene.
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I'm a little curious about this since most seeded players are korean. Perhaps NASL will move its system, but what if seeded koreans decide to come back in season 3?
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On August 13 2011 05:22 Punti wrote:
I think giving each player 2.000 $ is a fair offer. Don't think that that doesn't cover their costs. There must be something more to it. Maybe they just don't like the format of the event and weird playing times.
I have to admit that I also do not like the format and I am not convinced by the casters. Paying for vods was never an option for me. On the other hand I bought tickets for the first few GSL season. The format was entertaining, casters were awesome. I think there is still a lot to learn from the korean scene.
Yes, one thing we can learn from them is how to NOT honor contracts. And that's directed toward the SC2Com, not the Korean scene in general.
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On August 13 2011 04:48 DNA61289 wrote:
is that not their right to decline participation? From a business stand point it shouldn't matter what the reason why they declined only that they did and you move on. To make a thread and putting all the blame on the Koreans is immature and unprofessional. I hope NASL knows they have probably burnt a bridge that didn't need to be.
your missing a big point.
1. Koreans players & mangers agreed to the format of the tournament and signed contracts to play in the tournament.
2. later on after qualifier have been played they decided they dont want to pay the security deposit (which is understandable since they are poor but it was in the already signed agreement) and now want more money to pay for travel
3. so Koreans ask for more money (which in my opinion sounds like extortion) nasl offered $2000 per player for travel. Korean say no it not enough
4. so they leave. leaving a tournament to be delayed while it works out how to either fill or reformat it season. which i cant imagine would make nasl sponsors happy.
imo if they didn't want to play because of the issues they said they were upset with (which they knew going into it) don't participate in the first place.
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Ultimately the burden is on the NASL to acquire the best and most interesting players. The Korean players represent an asset to the NASL's ad revenue. For instance, Boxer participating in a tournament generates interest which generates ad revenue (a lot more than NA and EU players).
A 2000$ stipend may barely cover travel expenses if only economy options are taken. But what about paying them for their celebrity status? Famous people are payed large sums to make commencement speeches, to give you an example.
You get what you pay for. $2000 doesn't pay for much these days.
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Lol. Koreans with power can be such kids sometimes...
Foreign tournaments should stop inviting koreans to foreign events if they keep acting this immature.
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On August 13 2011 05:26 integrity wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 04:48 DNA61289 wrote:
is that not their right to decline participation? From a business stand point it shouldn't matter what the reason why they declined only that they did and you move on. To make a thread and putting all the blame on the Koreans is immature and unprofessional. I hope NASL knows they have probably burnt a bridge that didn't need to be. your missing a big point. 1. Koreans players & mangers agreed to the format of the tournament and signed contracts to play in the tournament. 2. later on after qualifier have been played they decided they dont want to pay the security deposit (which is understandable since they are poor but it was in the already signed agreement) and now want more money to pay for travel 3. so Koreans ask for more money (which in my opinion sounds like extortion) nasl offered $2000 per player for travel. Korean say no it not enough 4. so they leave. leaving a tournament to be delayed while it works out how to either fill or reformat it season. which i cant imagine would make nasl sponsors happy. imo if they didn't want to play because of the issues they said they were upset with (which they knew going into it) don't participate in the first place.
Regarding #1: You are wrong. They signed contracts for season one and honored them. They had not signed contracts for season 2.
EDIT: I am wrong. According to NASL.tv contracts were signed.
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On August 13 2011 05:29 meadbert wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 05:26 integrity wrote:On August 13 2011 04:48 DNA61289 wrote:
is that not their right to decline participation? From a business stand point it shouldn't matter what the reason why they declined only that they did and you move on. To make a thread and putting all the blame on the Koreans is immature and unprofessional. I hope NASL knows they have probably burnt a bridge that didn't need to be. your missing a big point. 1. Koreans players & mangers agreed to the format of the tournament and signed contracts to play in the tournament. 2. later on after qualifier have been played they decided they dont want to pay the security deposit (which is understandable since they are poor but it was in the already signed agreement) and now want more money to pay for travel 3. so Koreans ask for more money (which in my opinion sounds like extortion) nasl offered $2000 per player for travel. Korean say no it not enough 4. so they leave. leaving a tournament to be delayed while it works out how to either fill or reformat it season. which i cant imagine would make nasl sponsors happy. imo if they didn't want to play because of the issues they said they were upset with (which they knew going into it) don't participate in the first place. Regarding #1: You are wrong. They signed contracts for season one and honored them. They had not signed contracts for season 2.
I believe they signed contracts for Season 2. Per NASL the contracts were signed late July, how could contracts be signed in late July for Season 1?
Also, Prime signed a contract. Considering Prime didn't have a player in Season 1 why would they sign a contract for Season 1?
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I don't want to sound bad here, but you would think the Koreans would suck it up for this and pay their players to travel because the foreigner scene is doing a HELL of a lot more for esports than Korea is actually doing. We cannot further esports by ourselves, we need to have the best competition at every single event we can.
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"So what?" I say! There are plenty of bright sides  There will be a sudden increase of budget and I was getting sick of them stealing our tournaments anyway !
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I'm also surprised that western companies aren't sponsoring Koreans to play in western tournaments and leagues. The fans love them. It seems silly that a Dr. Pepper or the like isn't chomping at the bit to sponsor Boxer at MLG, NASL, Dreamhack, etc.
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On August 13 2011 05:36 Smackzilla wrote:
I'm also surprised that western companies aren't sponsoring Koreans to play in western tournaments and leagues. The fans love them. It seems silly that a Dr. Pepper or the like isn't chomping at the bit to sponsor Boxer at MLG, NASL, Dreamhack, etc.
Pulling shit like this isn't going to make it easier for them to gain sponsors.
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does the NASL not get that the Korean's are super-stars, and you have to pay for super-stars, Its clear who the loser is in this case.
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On August 13 2011 05:37 jackthelad wrote:
does the NASL not get that the Korean's are super-stars, and you have to pay for super-stars, Its clear who the loser is in this case.
Wow another poster who just joined today and has 1 post to his credit.....
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On August 13 2011 05:26 cosimorondo wrote:
Ultimately the burden is on the NASL to acquire the best and most interesting players. The Korean players represent an asset to the NASL's ad revenue. For instance, Boxer participating in a tournament generates interest which generates ad revenue (a lot more than NA and EU players).
A 2000$ stipend may barely cover travel expenses if only economy options are taken. But what about paying them for their celebrity status? Famous people are payed large sums to make commencement speeches, to give you an example.
You get what you pay for. $2000 doesn't pay for much these days.
At the end it's about sponsoring I think. If a major sponsor of a team thinks the event is good for them (lots of people see their logos, and so on...), they'll want their players to show up there. It's up to the organizer to get the sponsors interested in it - then the players come. It's a win - win situation for both of them. But the NASL just doesn't seem to have the right format for that.
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On August 13 2011 05:37 jackthelad wrote:
does the NASL not get that the Korean's are super-stars, and you have to pay for super-stars, Its clear who the loser is in this case.
ya the koreans are the losers here. if it wasnt evident last season, they can easily make a lot of money in this. people just want to watch games, i could care less that koreans are not going. im actually happy because i like watching foreigners. having an almost korean free tournament is good by my standards
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EPT
