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On August 05 2011 03:55 Hellspawnl wrote:Using 35 million started streams is just a bullshit number to promote. Number of times a stream got loaded means nothing at all. 35 million streams started, 2,6 million of hours streamed means that EACH stream in average went on for 4,5 minutes, maybe not such a great number, I don't say it's bad either. What counts is Unique Viewers and average viewing time and Sundance responded to my tweet and said they will present that too when they got those numbers. Yes, I'm biased as I ran the SC2 Tours at DreamHack but compare this presentation with the DreamHacks
Yea, its a bullshit number, i got nothing against MLG but i also suspect they might have used tactics to inflate the numbers, i bought the HD stream and probably about 20-30 times throughout the entire event (wich i didnt watch every hour of, far from it actually) the stream would stop and it would tell me my code is being used (when it definitely wasnt i onyly ever had 1 stream open) and i would have to input the number again and restart the stream. So for me alone my number of stream initiations is inflated by 30, if even half the people had the same problem as me that would be siginificantly lower stream initiations right there.
To me only live numbers are meaningful, stream initiations could even imply a poor streaming service because of people constantly having to restart their streams, its the wrong number to advertise in my mind, because we know there wasnt even close to a million people watching, MAYBE 100-150k MAX (for starcraft, and i would assume other games would have siginificantly lower stream numbers.)
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On August 05 2011 05:13 K_Dilkington wrote:
Impressive. I find the 20 000 visitor number a bit dodgy though, from what I've seen it looked more like 8000-10 000 but I could be wrong.
Well, 20,000 visitors over the 3 days is reasonable I think. I'm sure there were people who attended one day and not another, people who bought passes but were unable to actually attend or people who attended for part of the day. I mean, some people were able to go during the morning then had to leave and there would be people who were only able to attend in the afternoon etc. It's not like a football game where the half time attendance is indicative of the exact number of people at the event.
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MLG Colombus was 22.5M stream views in June.
MLG Anaheim was 35M stream views in August.
Thats like 50% growth in 2 months. Yes stream views can be inaccurate but the Anaheim stream was more stable than Colombus, which makes the figure even more impressive.
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On August 05 2011 05:13 K_Dilkington wrote:
Impressive. I find the 20 000 visitor number a bit dodgy though, from what I've seen it looked more like 8000-10 000 but I could be wrong.
That number is almost certainly inflated by people only going to one of the days, rebuying their entry bracelet each day because they don't know any better etc.
I like the rest of you wish we got some straight up unique views numbers and concurrent views numbers, but I don't see why there's all this vitriol about it. They're statistics, the number one source of misinformation in the world.
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On August 05 2011 05:15 cheesemaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 03:55 Hellspawnl wrote:Using 35 million started streams is just a bullshit number to promote. Number of times a stream got loaded means nothing at all. 35 million streams started, 2,6 million of hours streamed means that EACH stream in average went on for 4,5 minutes, maybe not such a great number, I don't say it's bad either. What counts is Unique Viewers and average viewing time and Sundance responded to my tweet and said they will present that too when they got those numbers. Yes, I'm biased as I ran the SC2 Tours at DreamHack but compare this presentation with the DreamHacks Yea, its a bullshit number, i got nothing against MLG but i also suspect they might have used tactics to inflate the numbers, i bought the HD stream and probably about 20-30 times throughout the entire event (wich i didnt watch every hour of, far from it actually) the stream would stop and it would tell me my code is being used (when it definitely wasnt i onyly ever had 1 stream open) and i would have to input the number again and restart the stream. So for me alone my number of stream initiations is inflated by 30, if even half the people had the same problem as me that would be siginificantly lower stream initiations right there. To me only live numbers are meaningful, stream initiations could even imply a poor streaming service because of people constantly having to restart their streams, its the wrong number to advertise in my mind, because we know there wasnt even close to a million people watching, MAYBE 100-150k MAX (for starcraft, and i would assume other games would have siginificantly lower stream numbers.)
Wow...some people certainly are cynical. Self sabotage seems pretty ridiculous to me. It wouldn't take long for that tactic to wear thin on the viewers and viewership would drop drastically and sponsors would leave. I don't think they intentionally want stream issues to occur. Also, why not give the feedback to MLG directly telling them what problems you had with the stream so they can correct them? Or is it easier to complain instead of doing something constructive?
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How do you know he hasn't?
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There are three numbers in there:
35 million stream views
2.6 million hours of video consumed
average user time per stream was more than three hours
The relationship between these three is views = total hours/average user time.
35.000.000 = 2.600.000/3
That does not work out. Something's fishy. Even then, we should probably divide the right hand side by some number >1 to account for people watching multiple streams at once.
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On August 05 2011 04:12 Exarl25 wrote:
With regards to the 35 million number, I don't think people understand that this is the number advertisers are mainly interested in. This was explained when stream numbers were released for the last MLG.
Advertisers also want to look at Unique Viewers. Companies with marketing budget that want to invest in eSports are not stupid and want real numbers to look at.
If you want to invest in advertising on a online streamed tournament you look at every statistics that is possible and Unique Viewers are a really important stat for this, but you also want to look at number of views.
MLG would look more serious if they released both of the numbers. Right now some will look at it and be sceptical, which is sad because I bet that the UV for MLG are fantastic.
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On August 05 2011 05:19 RoboBob wrote:
MLG Colombus was 22.5M stream views in June.
MLG Anaheim was 35M stream views in August.
Thats like 50% growth in 2 months. Yes stream views can be inaccurate but the Anaheim stream was more stable than Colombus, which makes the figure even more impressive.
The Anaheim stream was everything but stable. I had to refresh 50-100 times because of the problems a lot of people had
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On August 05 2011 05:25 nam nam wrote:
How do you know he hasn't?
Experience tells me that most people prefer to complain to others about a bad experience/something they have problems with rather than do anything constructive with their opinion. Where I work the people that complain almost always refuse to fill in a comments/feedback form because they can't be bothered or don't think it's worth it.
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On August 05 2011 05:06 Domination wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 05:02 Ryalnos wrote:On August 05 2011 04:59 delo wrote:On August 05 2011 03:55 Hellspawnl wrote:Using 35 million started streams is just a bullshit number to promote. Number of times a stream got loaded means nothing at all. 35 million streams started, 2,6 million of hours streamed means that EACH stream in average went on for 4,5 minutes, maybe not such a great number, I don't say it's bad either. What counts is Unique Viewers and average viewing time and Sundance responded to my tweet and said they will present that too when they got those numbers. Yes, I'm biased as I ran the SC2 Tours at DreamHack but compare this presentation with the DreamHacks For reference, how long did the average unique watch the streams at DH summer? Absolute unique viewers: 1,494,026 Total Viewing Time (hours): 17,324 hours <-- I'm guessing this isn't the cumulative hours watched across all 1,494,026 uniques...right? That'd only be 41.7 seconds/unique. I imagine it's gotta be higher than that. I would guess that it was supposed to be 17,324,000. You would be wrong because that would mean the average unique watched like 11+ hours of dreamhack which I highly doubt.
You have a fair point there which I overlooked. 17,324 seemed absurdly small so my first guess was that it was off by some zeroes. After that my guess was 1,732,400 but that starts to feel almost a little small (though 1 hr average per viewer is not that unreasonable, especially if you consider how many might have been watching due to Riot's embedding of the streams in the LoL client).
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On August 05 2011 05:28 alexhard wrote:
There are three numbers in there:
35 million stream views
2.6 million hours of video consumed
average user time per stream was more than three hours
The relationship between these three is views = total hours/average user time.
35.000.000 = 2.600.000/3
That does not work out. Something's fishy. Even then, we should probably divide the right hand side by some number >1 to account for people watching multiple streams at once.
35,000,000 is basically streams initiated. Lots of people initiated streams multiple times throughout the weekend. 2,600,000 / 3 appears to be the closest thing to a viewer count being handed out in these statistics, but that might double or triple count people with multiple streams open.
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On August 05 2011 05:31 Ladnil wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 05:28 alexhard wrote:
There are three numbers in there:
35 million stream views
2.6 million hours of video consumed
average user time per stream was more than three hours
The relationship between these three is views = total hours/average user time.
35.000.000 = 2.600.000/3
That does not work out. Something's fishy. Even then, we should probably divide the right hand side by some number >1 to account for people watching multiple streams at once. 35,000,000 is basically streams initiated. Lots of people initiated streams multiple times throughout the weekend. 2,600,000 / 3 appears to be the closest thing to a viewer count being handed out in these statistics, but that might double or triple count people with multiple streams open.
I only ever had one stream open. I would guess that the average streams open at once per person is something moderate like ~1.2.
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On August 05 2011 05:28 TheSilverfox wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 04:12 Exarl25 wrote:
With regards to the 35 million number, I don't think people understand that this is the number advertisers are mainly interested in. This was explained when stream numbers were released for the last MLG. Advertisers also want to look at Unique Viewers. Companies with marketing budget that want to invest in eSports are not stupid and want real numbers to look at. If you want to invest in advertising on a online streamed tournament you look at every statistics that is possible and Unique Viewers are a really important stat for this, but you also want to look at number of views. MLG would look more serious if they released both of the numbers. Right now some will look at it and be sceptical, which is sad because I bet that the UV for MLG are fantastic.
I'd go ahead and say that either the unique viewership statistics haven't been released yet, or they've only been released privately to sponsors or advertisers. It's unlikely that MLG would be sitting on those numbers and letting them go to waste unless there was a reason for us/others not knowing what they were.
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On August 05 2011 04:21 Hellspawnl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 04:05 Frogsox wrote:On August 05 2011 03:57 Bear4188 wrote:
2.6 million hours and 3 hours of stream / user would suggest just under 900000 unique users, which seems a reasonable number to me.
Good to see MLG getting healthy viewership.
Hellspawn, we don't need a pissing contest between a 3 game league and a massive LAN with like 5x as many games going on. I totally agree that it's great to see MLG growing. It's great for Esports in general as well as good for the viewers. Also, I don't know why people like Hellspawn bother coming in here with that sort of attitude. It's the same sort of fanboy rubbish you see with consoles etc etc. I don't understand why he can't be happy for the fact that Esports is growing as an industry and there's more and more great events to watch. Instead he has to turn it into a contest for some reason. I think he just wanted to brag about running tours at Dreamhack. When focusing on numbers which are totally uninteresting to just boost your business then it's bad which has to be pointed out, I love E-sport overall and I don't want anything else than MLG to grow. But they have to grow for the right reasons not how they can manipulate their sponsors and fans. I have an extremely hard time to believe that MLG Anaheim had 20 000 visitors while DreamHack Summer 2011 had 12 475. How is those 20 000 counted? Event pass is x3 and every day pass added on top? These questions grows at least in my head when you use numbers in a way that suits you the best. People in this thread BELIEVES that 35 million people watched MLG Anaheim, why you ask? Because that is the number MLG what everybody to see, even though it means nothing at all. Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 04:12 Odyssey wrote:On August 05 2011 04:06 Tschis wrote:On August 05 2011 03:55 Hellspawnl wrote:Using 35 million started streams is just a bullshit number to promote. Number of times a stream got loaded means nothing at all. 35 million streams started, 2,6 million of hours streamed means that EACH stream in average went on for 4,5 minutes, maybe not such a great number, I don't say it's bad either. What counts is Unique Viewers and average viewing time and Sundance responded to my tweet and said they will present that too when they got those numbers. Yes, I'm biased as I ran the SC2 Tours at DreamHack but compare this presentation with the DreamHacks Unique video views: 1,740,771
Absolute unique viewers: 1,494,026 What's the difference? I believe Dreamhack can thank LOL for a lot of their views. Keep in mind MLG is picking up LOL next event too. If Riot pushes MLG like they did Dreamhack with the link to MLG right after you sign into LOL I would expect MLG numbers to be much much larger. To be honest SC2 and LOL are where its at for gaming right now. When MLG start running both of them we will see a ton of new viewers. I'm going to end up having 3-4 streams up for every MLG now haha. The difference is that you have Uniques per stream and Unquies in totalt, at DreamHack it was like +20 different streams. Absolute is also absolute, so it didn't matter if someone was all 20 different streams No sorry mate, LoL was not included in those numbers as first of all it was run on own3d and also that it wasn't a DreamHack Tournament. Riot ran that event by them self in the exhibition area at DreamHack. I guess it feels good to try to spread false numbers, guess that will be the truth too =D
Jesus christ you really going to do this? You come in here criticizing good news just because they stated factual numbers? Nothing they said was incorrect. They never said 35 million unique viewers. Get off your high horse and stop thrashing other companies just because you are offended how they present their numbers. Sundance already tweeted they will release unique viewers when that number is available. Will you then come in and bash them by saying they manipulated those numbers as well? Let MLG have their time in the light and when your event comes around just do your best. That's all the viewers want, not some stupid muscle flexing over the internet.
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All right, I'll say it.
ESPORTS.
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On August 05 2011 05:33 Frogsox wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 05:28 TheSilverfox wrote:On August 05 2011 04:12 Exarl25 wrote:
With regards to the 35 million number, I don't think people understand that this is the number advertisers are mainly interested in. This was explained when stream numbers were released for the last MLG. Advertisers also want to look at Unique Viewers. Companies with marketing budget that want to invest in eSports are not stupid and want real numbers to look at. If you want to invest in advertising on a online streamed tournament you look at every statistics that is possible and Unique Viewers are a really important stat for this, but you also want to look at number of views. MLG would look more serious if they released both of the numbers. Right now some will look at it and be sceptical, which is sad because I bet that the UV for MLG are fantastic. I'd go ahead and say that either the unique viewership statistics haven't been released yet, or they've only been released privately to sponsors or advertisers. It's unlikely that MLG would be sitting on those numbers and letting them go to waste unless there was a reason for us/others not knowing what they were.
It could be so, and I'm certain that they will release these numbers soon.
But I still think it would look a lot more serious if these numbers were added in the Press Release. Hey, I would rather wait 2-3 days and get these numbers added to look more serious.
Don't get me wrong here. I think MLG Anaheim numbers are great - I just think that the release could be more awesome :D.
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i dunno if refreshing the page 150 times over the mlg weekend counts each as a unique view due to my screen going black randomly after each commercial, but yea that can explain why there was so many viewers.
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On August 05 2011 05:48 OrangeSoda wrote:
i dunno if refreshing the page 150 times over the mlg weekend counts each as a unique view due to my screen going black randomly after each commercial, but yea that can explain why there was so many viewers.
You should get a Gold/Silver pass and therefore forgo the ads and drop outs ;-D
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Hellspawnlord
PLEASE can #MLG stop announcing bullshit numbers? 35 million started streams, WHO CARES? #MLGAnaheim @@MLGSundance @MLGLee @Slasher
2 hours ago
MLGSundance
@Hellspawnlord how is it BS? It's a standard measurement of video engagement on the web for live stream events along with concurrents.
2 hours ago
Hellspawnlord
@MLGSundance As the unique numbers, the reach, is the most important. How many times the stream restarted or people sapping through it is BS
2 hours ago via web
MLGSundance
@Hellspawnlord keep in mind - press releases are for the mainstream press. They look for comparable numbers and stats. Have a nice day.
2 hours ago
MLGSundance
@Hellspawnlord well once we get the all in numbers from our distribution partners (IMG, Justin and others) we will release that as well.
2 hours ago
*sigh*
User was warned for this post
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EPT
