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On August 05 2011 04:05 Frogsox wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 03:57 Bear4188 wrote:
2.6 million hours and 3 hours of stream / user would suggest just under 900000 unique users, which seems a reasonable number to me.
Good to see MLG getting healthy viewership.
Hellspawn, we don't need a pissing contest between a 3 game league and a massive LAN with like 5x as many games going on. I totally agree that it's great to see MLG growing. It's great for Esports in general as well as good for the viewers. Also, I don't know why people like Hellspawn bother coming in here with that sort of attitude. It's the same sort of fanboy rubbish you see with consoles etc etc. I don't understand why he can't be happy for the fact that Esports is growing as an industry and there's more and more great events to watch. Instead he has to turn it into a contest for some reason. I think he just wanted to brag about running tours at Dreamhack.
Why would two major sc2 organizers competing with each other be a bad thing? If anything it will benefit the viewers greatly. Lets say one tournament have 5 high quality streams and the viewers love it, the other tournament will feel heavy pressure to match or surpass that and so on. I don't get the mindset that they have to be all buddy buddy. Would you like that for any other service or product you buy?
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On August 05 2011 04:29 Oboeman wrote:
I think about 10 million of those views were me refreshing anytime there was a break, or I wanted to switch streams, or the stream stopped working.
Ye I think so too 
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One is in America and one is in Europe. its not a competition. They aren't even on at the same time. Competing against each other is pointless.
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On August 05 2011 04:54 skeldark wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 04:45 PhattY` wrote:
Regardless of whether or not MLG is inflating numbers to promote themselves, I don't see why people are so quick to criticize them. MLG is currently the best chance that the U.S. ESports scene has at matching the popularity of Esports in Korea.
I understand that this is the Internet and a lot of people want to sound cool and criticize everything, but how about some of you become less ignorant and more supportive of the growth of our amazing sport.
Remember, MLG doesn't HAVE to continue improving their online stream quality for spectators tourney after tourney, but they choose to for the good of the scene and for the continuing support of their viewers. Be grateful. because they lie. if you wirte it this way people could think they had 35 million viewers and obvious they had not. You say: " but the lie help us support esport" so dam you that you say they lie...."
I don't get why people are saying that MLG is "lying" to us. They released factual numbers based upon the telemetry they recorded during the event. There will almost certainly be more data available as time goes on. People complaining about having to refresh etc, what do you want MLG to do? Do you think there is a realistic way for them to sort refreshes etc out of the numbers? I think a lot of people simply aren't engaging their brains to look at the information provided for what it is. They're trying to make it into something that it isn't or trying to over-analyse the information.
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On August 05 2011 04:58 TheResidentEvil wrote:
One is in America and one is in Europe. its not a competition. They aren't even on at the same time. Competing against each other is pointless.
Come on you can't seriously believe that? Also I'm talking in general, people have been saying the same things for other events.
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Someone tell MLG
"SELECT COUNT(DISTINCT ip) AS Total from Viewers"
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On August 05 2011 03:55 Hellspawnl wrote:Using 35 million started streams is just a bullshit number to promote. Number of times a stream got loaded means nothing at all. 35 million streams started, 2,6 million of hours streamed means that EACH stream in average went on for 4,5 minutes, maybe not such a great number, I don't say it's bad either. What counts is Unique Viewers and average viewing time and Sundance responded to my tweet and said they will present that too when they got those numbers. Yes, I'm biased as I ran the SC2 Tours at DreamHack but compare this presentation with the DreamHacks
For reference, how long did the average unique watch the streams at DH summer?
Absolute unique viewers: 1,494,026
Total Viewing Time (hours): 17,324 hours <-- I'm guessing this isn't the cumulative hours watched across all 1,494,026 uniques...right? That'd only be 41.7 seconds/unique. I imagine it's gotta be higher than that.
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On August 05 2011 04:59 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 04:58 TheResidentEvil wrote:
One is in America and one is in Europe. its not a competition. They aren't even on at the same time. Competing against each other is pointless. Come on you can't seriously believe that?
No I seriously do. Did you watch the Sundance interview about going into Europe? he explicitly states that he has no desire to go in and take over and compete. he is looking for people to partner with just like he did with GSL. Not everything is a competition.
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On August 05 2011 04:59 delo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 03:55 Hellspawnl wrote:Using 35 million started streams is just a bullshit number to promote. Number of times a stream got loaded means nothing at all. 35 million streams started, 2,6 million of hours streamed means that EACH stream in average went on for 4,5 minutes, maybe not such a great number, I don't say it's bad either. What counts is Unique Viewers and average viewing time and Sundance responded to my tweet and said they will present that too when they got those numbers. Yes, I'm biased as I ran the SC2 Tours at DreamHack but compare this presentation with the DreamHacks For reference, how long did the average unique watch the streams at DH summer? Absolute unique viewers: 1,494,026 Total Viewing Time (hours): 17,324 hours <-- I'm guessing this isn't the cumulative hours watched across all 1,494,026 uniques...right? That'd only be 41.7 seconds/unique. I imagine it's gotta be higher than that.
I would guess that it was supposed to be 17,324,000.
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Wow, viewers from 171 countries. Awesome!
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On August 05 2011 04:56 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 04:05 Frogsox wrote:On August 05 2011 03:57 Bear4188 wrote:
2.6 million hours and 3 hours of stream / user would suggest just under 900000 unique users, which seems a reasonable number to me.
Good to see MLG getting healthy viewership.
Hellspawn, we don't need a pissing contest between a 3 game league and a massive LAN with like 5x as many games going on. I totally agree that it's great to see MLG growing. It's great for Esports in general as well as good for the viewers. Also, I don't know why people like Hellspawn bother coming in here with that sort of attitude. It's the same sort of fanboy rubbish you see with consoles etc etc. I don't understand why he can't be happy for the fact that Esports is growing as an industry and there's more and more great events to watch. Instead he has to turn it into a contest for some reason. I think he just wanted to brag about running tours at Dreamhack. Why would two major sc2 organizers competing with each other be a bad thing? If anything it will benefit the viewers greatly. Lets say one tournament have 5 high quality streams and the viewers love it, the other tournament will feel heavy pressure to match or surpass that and so on. I don't get the mindset that they have to be all buddy buddy. Would you like that for any other service or product you buy?
I get what you mean and I actually agree. Events like Dreamhack and MLG should look to each other to find places where they can improve their coverage/structure so that the viewers benefit. I don't have any problem with that aspect of your comment or anyone else's. However, it's hard to compare the two events because they differ greatly in structure and organisation given that one is being run almost monthly while the other is biannual so it's not like they are in direct competition.
What I was really pointing out that people shouldn't come on here and try and turn some sort of reasonable discussion into a "my dad is stronger than your dad" kind of argument and trying to reason that one is bigger and better than the other despite the fact that it's not what the thread is about and it's not even really constructive. The main point of this should be that MLG is exhibiting strong signs of growth and people should be happy about that instead of trying to find ways to criticise the event/organisation.
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Let's see - did the viewers get a new commercial for each refresh? I only watched a couple hours myself so I don't remember how it worked.
(My rough hypothesis could be that advertisers are curious about how many times ads are viewed, and viewer hours + 'streams' might be relevant for that)
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On August 05 2011 05:02 Ryalnos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 04:59 delo wrote:On August 05 2011 03:55 Hellspawnl wrote:Using 35 million started streams is just a bullshit number to promote. Number of times a stream got loaded means nothing at all. 35 million streams started, 2,6 million of hours streamed means that EACH stream in average went on for 4,5 minutes, maybe not such a great number, I don't say it's bad either. What counts is Unique Viewers and average viewing time and Sundance responded to my tweet and said they will present that too when they got those numbers. Yes, I'm biased as I ran the SC2 Tours at DreamHack but compare this presentation with the DreamHacks For reference, how long did the average unique watch the streams at DH summer? Absolute unique viewers: 1,494,026 Total Viewing Time (hours): 17,324 hours <-- I'm guessing this isn't the cumulative hours watched across all 1,494,026 uniques...right? That'd only be 41.7 seconds/unique. I imagine it's gotta be higher than that. I would guess that it was supposed to be 17,324,000.
You would be wrong because that would mean the average unique watched like 11+ hours of dreamhack which I highly doubt.
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On August 05 2011 05:00 TheResidentEvil wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 04:59 nam nam wrote:On August 05 2011 04:58 TheResidentEvil wrote:
One is in America and one is in Europe. its not a competition. They aren't even on at the same time. Competing against each other is pointless. Come on you can't seriously believe that? No I seriously do. Did you watch the Sundance interview about going into Europe? he explicitly states that he has no desire to go in and take over and compete. he is looking for people to partner with just like he did with GSL. Not everything is a competition.
Exactly. This is where the fanboys ruin the day by trying to put one over the other instead of being happy for the fact that their interests in general are being advanced on multiple fronts to ensure that they're getting more of what they want at higher quality than they've ever seen before.
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On August 05 2011 04:54 skeldark wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 04:45 PhattY` wrote:
Regardless of whether or not MLG is inflating numbers to promote themselves, I don't see why people are so quick to criticize them. MLG is currently the best chance that the U.S. ESports scene has at matching the popularity of Esports in Korea.
I understand that this is the Internet and a lot of people want to sound cool and criticize everything, but how about some of you become less ignorant and more supportive of the growth of our amazing sport.
Remember, MLG doesn't HAVE to continue improving their online stream quality for spectators tourney after tourney, but they choose to for the good of the scene and for the continuing support of their viewers. Be grateful. because they lie. if they wirte it this way, people could think they had 35 million viewers and obvious they had not. You say: " but the lie help support esport, so dam you that you say they lie...." Oo
Are they hurting your feelings if they lie? Are they hurting anyone if they "lie"? In all honesty, whether they 1 viewer or 10000000000 viewers, business is business and they'll attempt to spin any negativity into a positive thing for the company. That's how businesses work, welcome to the 21st century. My point is that MLG is doing nothing but good things for the eSports community and all people want to point out is that they had to F5 every once in awhile? Grow up, stop being lazy and enjoy the game.
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And still MLG price pool is so low.
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Good input as always Hellspawn. When e-sport is getting bigger we ofcourse need to keep supporting good organizations like MLG and DH but we also need to question them. And Hellspawn is one of those people who does just that.
Id like to know the amount of unique viewers they had. I do not doubt its a record aswell, but i guess it doesnt look as nice as 35M.
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On August 05 2011 05:05 Ryalnos wrote:
Let's see - did the viewers get a new commercial for each refresh? I only watched a couple hours myself so I don't remember how it worked.
(My rough hypothesis could be that advertisers are curious about how many times ads are viewed, and viewer hours + 'streams' might be relevant for that)
Another valid point which I've seen a couple of times already.
I think people are (among other things) not looking at the information for what it is. It's almost certainly primarily for sponsors and advertisers to look at to see what sort of gains they can make through advertising/sponsoring the event with their products. This kind of information is good for MLG so that they can help attract more money through new sponsors or improve their deals with their existing sponsors.
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Impressive. I find the 20 000 visitor number a bit dodgy though, from what I've seen it looked more like 8000-10 000 but I could be wrong.
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On August 05 2011 05:02 Ryalnos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 04:59 delo wrote:On August 05 2011 03:55 Hellspawnl wrote:Using 35 million started streams is just a bullshit number to promote. Number of times a stream got loaded means nothing at all. 35 million streams started, 2,6 million of hours streamed means that EACH stream in average went on for 4,5 minutes, maybe not such a great number, I don't say it's bad either. What counts is Unique Viewers and average viewing time and Sundance responded to my tweet and said they will present that too when they got those numbers. Yes, I'm biased as I ran the SC2 Tours at DreamHack but compare this presentation with the DreamHacks For reference, how long did the average unique watch the streams at DH summer? Absolute unique viewers: 1,494,026 Total Viewing Time (hours): 17,324 hours <-- I'm guessing this isn't the cumulative hours watched across all 1,494,026 uniques...right? That'd only be 41.7 seconds/unique. I imagine it's gotta be higher than that. I would guess that it was supposed to be 17,324,000.
To get a true comparison we need the starcraft ONLY numbers. I don't know if that's doable. I kind a like MLG, but Im North American. Im sure the Europeans like Dreamhack more. Dreamhack is run so smooth, MLG more messy, but I get much more drawn in, more involved, can't put my finger on it. Seems more free wheeling fan oriented.
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EPT
