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Didn't see this anywhere, so I figure I'll post it up:
Major League Gaming (MLG), the world's largest professional video game league and provider of cross platform online videogame competition, shattered previous MLG records delivering more than 35 million stream views of the Anaheim Pro Circuit weekend July 29-31. In addition to online viewers, more than 20,000 fans attended over the course of the weekend and more than 1,000 players from around the world competed. Online viewership, combined with in-person attendance make the Anaheim competition the largest Pro Circuit in MLG history. Viewers from 171 countries watched four live streams during the three-day, double elimination tournament online at www.majorleaguegaming.com for a total of more than 2.6 million hours of video consumed. The average user time per stream was more than three hours. MLG is working with Streamworks to deliver live and on demand coverage of all 2011 and 2012 Pro Circuit competitions. Rebroadcasts of all Anaheim Pro Circuit matches are available on MLG.tv.
Obviously numbers can be manipulated, but I think the pure fact MLG has continued to grow substantially between events is definitely a good thing. It will be very interesting to see if they can sustain this growth heading into Raleigh.
Source: ESFIWorld
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Congrats MLG! That means more west coast events?
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On August 05 2011 03:41 DyEnasTy wrote:
Congrats MLG! That means more west coast events?
MLG wants to have more smaller events, and more online events, if they can get memberships to fill the pools and cost.
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Grats, glad to see that it is still growing and maturing.
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How many people watched though? They said 35 million views at one point and said average view time was 3 hours, but there's no way 35m people watched for 3 hrs.
I wish organizations would release relevant numbers sometimes. :\
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Wow, awesome. What was the highest number of concurrent viewers?
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I wonder how many extra views each one of us added by having to hit refresh to deal with either
A) frozen streams
B) wanting to switch the other stream to high quality (really wish they would let us have both in HQ)
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That's excellent news! It is awesome to see both GOM and MLG hitting these crazy high numbers. This can only help the scene grow. 
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On August 05 2011 03:54 ensign_lee wrote:
I wonder how many extra views each one of us added by having to hit refresh to deal with either
A) frozen streams
B) wanting to switch the other stream to high quality (really wish they would let us have both in HQ)
This. I literally had to refresh after EVERY match, because once the ad played, the stream went black. By the time i refreshed, they were midway into the second game.
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Using 35 million started streams is just a bullshit number to promote. Number of times a stream got loaded means nothing at all.
35 million streams started, 2,6 million of hours streamed means that EACH stream in average went on for 4,5 minutes, maybe not such a great number, I don't say it's bad either.
What counts is Unique Viewers and average viewing time and Sundance responded to my tweet and said they will present that too when they got those numbers.
Yes, I'm biased as I ran the SC2 Tours at DreamHack but compare this presentation with the DreamHacks
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On August 05 2011 03:46 Zip! wrote:
Wow, awesome. What was the highest number of concurrent viewers?
On Saturday Sundance announced that they had broken 100,000 concurrent, which had never happened for them on a Saturday before. Since the bulk of the views and the highest concurrency is always for Championship Sunday, I think it's safe to say that the Sunday concurrency must have been significantly higher than that, although in the past MLG has not released concurrency numbers. I was actually surprised that Sundance announced the concurrency on Saturday, but it was a pretty huge milestone for them and he was clearly excited.
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Are they Claiming then 865,000 unique? If 2.6Million hours/3 hours per user, that would mean over 865,000 unique people tuned in. That is fairly incredible.
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2.6 million hours and 3 hours of stream / user would suggest just under 900000 unique users, which seems a reasonable number to me.
Good to see MLG getting healthy viewership.
Hellspawn, we don't need a pissing contest between a 3 game league and a massive LAN with like 5x as many games going on.
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Yeah, the numbers don't mean much, but they are higher then past tournaments whilst stream problems were roughly consistent. A growth is a growth, and it is the best thing for the growth of SC2, especially if those numbers persuade one more sponsor to get on board.
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Well... there are a LOT of people who watch both streams at the same time.
Also the streams would turn cut itself off occasionally forcing a refresh - they might have added the refresh numbers as well.
To brag they need to announce the # of unique views.
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On August 05 2011 03:46 hmunkey wrote:
How many people watched though? They said 35 million views at one point and said average view time was 3 hours, but there's no way 35m people watched for 3 hrs.
I wish organizations would release relevant numbers sometimes. :\
There weren't 35 million people watching. If you reread the article you'll notice that there were 35 million "views" of the event across the streams. That means that there were 35 million different "clicks" to view streams. That would include every time someone refreshed, reopened etc a stream. To put that into perspectice, I was watching both the Red and Blue almost all weekend and had to refresh/relog my computers now and then which would contribute a fair few views. Especially when you factor that I also flipped back and forth to the FPS streams when they were showing the same match on both Red and Blue at times. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if I contributed 50+ views easily over the course of the weekend. Furthermore, I watched almost every minute of both streams, so that's well, well over the 3 hour average per view.
The numbers are actually relevant, I just think you misread or misinterpreted what was written in the article.
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On August 05 2011 03:56 Ladnil wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 03:46 Zip! wrote:
Wow, awesome. What was the highest number of concurrent viewers? On Saturday Sundance announced that they had broken 100,000 concurrent, which had never happened for them on a Saturday before. Since the bulk of the views and the highest concurrency is always for Championship Sunday, I think it's safe to say that the Sunday concurrency must have been significantly higher than that, although in the past MLG has not released concurrency numbers. I was actually surprised that Sundance announced the concurrency on Saturday, but it was a pretty huge milestone for them and he was clearly excited.
I don't know if Sunday would be significantly higher.
I know I turned it off once it was clear that there would just be back-to-back-to-back TvT for the top spots.
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A more meaningful number would be the number of UNIQUE views, not people refreshing because their stream would randomly die..
Anywho, congrats to them and wish them luck in their future events!
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On August 05 2011 03:46 hmunkey wrote:
How many people watched though? They said 35 million views at one point and said average view time was 3 hours, but there's no way 35m people watched for 3 hrs.
I wish organizations would release relevant numbers sometimes. :\
I think that a lot would tune in for some series and then there were also a lot like me that had both streams up all weekend. You would figure a hour on the low side for most people then 20+ hours for a lot of people like me. Just leaving it up regardless of what I was doing. Either way congrats MLG it's great to see these numbers.
Frogsox you misunderstood what Hmunkey meant much like I did at first. Read harder
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On August 05 2011 03:57 Bear4188 wrote:
2.6 million hours and 3 hours of stream / user would suggest just under 900000 unique users, which seems a reasonable number to me.
Good to see MLG getting healthy viewership.
Hellspawn, we don't need a pissing contest between a 3 game league and a massive LAN with like 5x as many games going on.
I totally agree that it's great to see MLG growing. It's great for Esports in general as well as good for the viewers.
Also, I don't know why people like Hellspawn bother coming in here with that sort of attitude. It's the same sort of fanboy rubbish you see with consoles etc etc. I don't understand why he can't be happy for the fact that Esports is growing as an industry and there's more and more great events to watch. Instead he has to turn it into a contest for some reason. I think he just wanted to brag about running tours at Dreamhack.
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Gratz MLG, it's fully deserved.
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So when is MLG's logo gonna include a mouse? 
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On August 05 2011 03:55 Hellspawnl wrote:Using 35 million started streams is just a bullshit number to promote. Number of times a stream got loaded means nothing at all. 35 million streams started, 2,6 million of hours streamed means that EACH stream in average went on for 4,5 minutes, maybe not such a great number, I don't say it's bad either. What counts is Unique Viewers and average viewing time and Sundance responded to my tweet and said they will present that too when they got those numbers. Yes, I'm biased as I ran the SC2 Tours at DreamHack but compare this presentation with the DreamHacks
Unique video views: 1,740,771
Absolute unique viewers: 1,494,026
What's the difference?
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Congratulations, you won me over and I paid for membership... now please organize your vods :D
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The average user time per stream was more than three hours.
this number is being manipulated
MLG Columbus had around 450K unique viewers. there is no way that unique viewers doubled from MLG Columbus to MLG Anaheim. MLG needs LoL to achieve that.
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I'm really surprised they had more viewership this time even though the time was less convenient for Europeans. Either they got a lot more American viewership or they manipulated the numbers a bit.
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On August 05 2011 04:08 udgnim wrote:this number is being manipulated MLG Columbus had around 450K unique viewers. there is no way that unique viewers doubled.
If its not outside the realm of physical possibility, then it can happen.
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Whoa, incredible O_O
Can we raise the prize pool now?
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Would be nice if mlg released some relevant numbers, this stuff is just for show.
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On August 05 2011 03:54 ch33psh33p wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 03:54 ensign_lee wrote:
I wonder how many extra views each one of us added by having to hit refresh to deal with either
A) frozen streams
B) wanting to switch the other stream to high quality (really wish they would let us have both in HQ)
This. ^
I literally had to refresh after EVERY match, because once the ad played, the stream went black. By the time i refreshed, they were midway into the second game.
I think I accounted for 500k of those views. I found that after every match it went dead and sometimes I even missed the next game!
This from a dedicated EUROPEAN viewer. I know it might not be much to you guys but I was so excited I abandoned my girlfriend to watch from 2 in the morning onwards on the first day.
Sooo my issues are bad times for Europeans and then black screening to boot. I must say I was a tad let down in those areas. Also It was poorly announced when each stream would be live and how long they would be before returning I think this could be addressed.
The great things I found were the short announcements to the side of the stream. I really enjoyed seeing all those hundreds of results and reading them through! That and the fact that they supplied a free stream as well. I am not one to take things like that for granted, so I like to think.
This is meant only as constructive criticism I am a huge SC2 tourney fan and i think MLG is really promoting esports in a great way.
edit: Terrible grammar
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On August 05 2011 04:08 udgnim wrote:this number is being manipulated MLG Columbus had around 450K unique viewers. there is no way that unique viewers doubled from MLG Columbus to MLG Anaheim. MLG needs LoL to achieve that. there could have been a larger influx of korean viewers thanks to boxer or something
hell there was probably a larger influx of foreign viewers thanks to boxer too
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On August 05 2011 04:06 Tschis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 03:55 Hellspawnl wrote:Using 35 million started streams is just a bullshit number to promote. Number of times a stream got loaded means nothing at all. 35 million streams started, 2,6 million of hours streamed means that EACH stream in average went on for 4,5 minutes, maybe not such a great number, I don't say it's bad either. What counts is Unique Viewers and average viewing time and Sundance responded to my tweet and said they will present that too when they got those numbers. Yes, I'm biased as I ran the SC2 Tours at DreamHack but compare this presentation with the DreamHacks What's the difference?
I believe Dreamhack can thank LOL for a lot of their views. Keep in mind MLG is picking up LOL next event too. If Riot pushes MLG like they did Dreamhack with the link to MLG right after you sign into LOL I would expect MLG numbers to be much much larger. To be honest SC2 and LOL are where its at for gaming right now. When MLG start running both of them we will see a ton of new viewers. I'm going to end up having 3-4 streams up for every MLG now haha.
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So....are we going to get to see numbers that aren't meant to appease advertisers?
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With regards to the 35 million number, I don't think people understand that this is the number advertisers are mainly interested in. This was explained when stream numbers were released for the last MLG.
The fanbase may be more interested in knowing how many unique views there were but in the grand scheme of things the 35 million is more relevant. MLG isn't trying to mislead anyone here.
I would be interested in knowing the numbers for unique and concurrent viewers though.
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oh man i got nerd tears and nerd bumps all over haha, DAMN I cant wait till i get a new comp im in it so hard and fast its insane.
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On August 05 2011 04:11 NorNor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 03:54 ch33psh33p wrote:On August 05 2011 03:54 ensign_lee wrote:
I wonder how many extra views each one of us added by having to hit refresh to deal with either
A) frozen streams
B) wanting to switch the other stream to high quality (really wish they would let us have both in HQ) This. ^ I literally had to refresh after EVERY match, because once the ad played, the stream went black. By the time i refreshed, they were midway into the second game. I think I accounted for 500k of those views. I found that after every match it went dead and sometimes I even missed the next game! This from a dedicated EUROPEAN viewer. I know it might not be much to you guys but I was so excited I abandoned my girlfriend to watch from 2 in the morning onwards on the first day. Sooo my issues are bad times for Europeans and then black screening to boot. I must say I was a tad let down in those areas. Also It was poorly announced when each stream would be live and how long they would be before returning I think this could be addressed. The great things I found were the short announcements to the side of the stream. I really enjoyed seeing all those hundreds of results and reading them through! That and the fact that they supplied a free stream as well. I am not one to take things like that for granted, so I like to think. This is meant only as constructive criticism I am a huge SC2 tourney fan and i think MLG is really promoting esports in a great way. edit: Terrible grammar
That's unfortunate for you. I didn't have any stream problems though viewing from Australia. Then again I didn't really see many ads since I was watching on a premium pass. That said, the Ultra stream was amazing and clear.
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On August 05 2011 04:12 Odyssey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 04:06 Tschis wrote:On August 05 2011 03:55 Hellspawnl wrote:Using 35 million started streams is just a bullshit number to promote. Number of times a stream got loaded means nothing at all. 35 million streams started, 2,6 million of hours streamed means that EACH stream in average went on for 4,5 minutes, maybe not such a great number, I don't say it's bad either. What counts is Unique Viewers and average viewing time and Sundance responded to my tweet and said they will present that too when they got those numbers. Yes, I'm biased as I ran the SC2 Tours at DreamHack but compare this presentation with the DreamHacks Unique video views: 1,740,771
Absolute unique viewers: 1,494,026 What's the difference? I believe Dreamhack can thank LOL for a lot of their views. Keep in mind MLG is picking up LOL next event too. If Riot pushes MLG like they did Dreamhack with the link to MLG right after you sign into LOL I would expect MLG numbers to be much much larger. To be honest SC2 and LOL are where its at for gaming right now. When MLG start running both of them we will see a ton of new viewers. I'm going to end up having 3-4 streams up for every MLG now haha.
Was it LoL? I thought I saw HoN mentioned? Either way, more viewers and more revenue for MLG is great as long as they don't have to divert resources away from the SC2 service. I really don't think they could go back to 1 stream.
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United States213 Posts
didnt even know there were 171 countries now... wow this is pretty big
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On August 05 2011 03:55 Hellspawnl wrote:Using 35 million started streams is just a bullshit number to promote. Number of times a stream got loaded means nothing at all. 35 million streams started, 2,6 million of hours streamed means that EACH stream in average went on for 4,5 minutes, maybe not such a great number, I don't say it's bad either. What counts is Unique Viewers and average viewing time and Sundance responded to my tweet and said they will present that too when they got those numbers. Yes, I'm biased as I ran the SC2 Tours at DreamHack but compare this presentation with the DreamHacks
Yeah think so too. Are you the real hellspawn from Rakaka? o:
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On August 05 2011 04:05 Frogsox wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 03:57 Bear4188 wrote:
2.6 million hours and 3 hours of stream / user would suggest just under 900000 unique users, which seems a reasonable number to me.
Good to see MLG getting healthy viewership.
Hellspawn, we don't need a pissing contest between a 3 game league and a massive LAN with like 5x as many games going on. I totally agree that it's great to see MLG growing. It's great for Esports in general as well as good for the viewers. Also, I don't know why people like Hellspawn bother coming in here with that sort of attitude. It's the same sort of fanboy rubbish you see with consoles etc etc. I don't understand why he can't be happy for the fact that Esports is growing as an industry and there's more and more great events to watch. Instead he has to turn it into a contest for some reason. I think he just wanted to brag about running tours at Dreamhack.
When focusing on numbers which are totally uninteresting to just boost your business then it's bad which has to be pointed out, I love E-sport overall and I don't want anything else than MLG to grow. But they have to grow for the right reasons not how they can manipulate their sponsors and fans. I have an extremely hard time to believe that MLG Anaheim had 20 000 visitors while DreamHack Summer 2011 had 12 475. How is those 20 000 counted? Event pass is x3 and every day pass added on top? These questions grows at least in my head when you use numbers in a way that suits you the best. People in this thread BELIEVES that 35 million people watched MLG Anaheim, why you ask? Because that is the number MLG what everybody to see, even though it means nothing at all.
On August 05 2011 04:12 Odyssey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 04:06 Tschis wrote:On August 05 2011 03:55 Hellspawnl wrote:Using 35 million started streams is just a bullshit number to promote. Number of times a stream got loaded means nothing at all. 35 million streams started, 2,6 million of hours streamed means that EACH stream in average went on for 4,5 minutes, maybe not such a great number, I don't say it's bad either. What counts is Unique Viewers and average viewing time and Sundance responded to my tweet and said they will present that too when they got those numbers. Yes, I'm biased as I ran the SC2 Tours at DreamHack but compare this presentation with the DreamHacks Unique video views: 1,740,771
Absolute unique viewers: 1,494,026 What's the difference? I believe Dreamhack can thank LOL for a lot of their views. Keep in mind MLG is picking up LOL next event too. If Riot pushes MLG like they did Dreamhack with the link to MLG right after you sign into LOL I would expect MLG numbers to be much much larger. To be honest SC2 and LOL are where its at for gaming right now. When MLG start running both of them we will see a ton of new viewers. I'm going to end up having 3-4 streams up for every MLG now haha.
The difference is that you have Uniques per stream and Unquies in totalt, at DreamHack it was like +20 different streams. Absolute is also absolute, so it didn't matter if someone was all 20 different streams
No sorry mate, LoL was not included in those numbers as first of all it was run on own3d and also that it wasn't a DreamHack Tournament. Riot ran that event by them self in the exhibition area at DreamHack. I guess it feels good to try to spread false numbers, guess that will be the truth too =D
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and thats because everyone had to refresh the stream after EVERY advertisment.
dont know if thats on purpose but those numbers saying nothing~
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This is pretty great news. Unique views or not, this is still big for spreading eSports. I think MLG needs to use these numbers to increase the prize pool for SC2 though, because these numbers have been increased drastically since it hit the Pro Circuit.
I must say that I did have some freezing issues with the stream, but it wasn't overwhelming and I can understand the amount of traffic produced by an event like this. From the sounds of it, investing in an HD pass would be a good idea too. ^_^
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I think about 10 million of those views were me refreshing anytime there was a break, or I wanted to switch streams, or the stream stopped working.
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Congratulations, MLG. Keep it up~
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Come to Chicago!!!!! Please!!!!!!!
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As much as this is great for mlg this is such bullshit how they manipulate due to their broken streaming. I personally refreshed close to 100 times due to stream problems and had bot streams open on saturday as I know many others did greatly cutting into their 35m and 100k concurrent on saturday. I would hazard that it was a bit under 750k unique and 60-70k on saturday, maybe 75k for sunday at some point.
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It's weird to me that one of the most viewed competitions has one of the smallest prize pools.
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Impressive considering I'm sure my buddy and I weren't the only ones who stopped watching when it came down to pure mirror matchups.
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On August 05 2011 04:33 kushm4sta wrote:
It's weird to me that one of the most viewed competitions has one of the smallest prize pools.
Exactly my thoughts. Congrats to MLG for the good numbers, but as mentioned above I also had to refresh the stream after every commercial brake, due to the stream freezing after said break. Hopefully the next MLG will be even more successful for both players and organizers.
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On August 05 2011 04:21 Hellspawnl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 04:05 Frogsox wrote:On August 05 2011 03:57 Bear4188 wrote:
2.6 million hours and 3 hours of stream / user would suggest just under 900000 unique users, which seems a reasonable number to me.
Good to see MLG getting healthy viewership.
Hellspawn, we don't need a pissing contest between a 3 game league and a massive LAN with like 5x as many games going on. I totally agree that it's great to see MLG growing. It's great for Esports in general as well as good for the viewers. Also, I don't know why people like Hellspawn bother coming in here with that sort of attitude. It's the same sort of fanboy rubbish you see with consoles etc etc. I don't understand why he can't be happy for the fact that Esports is growing as an industry and there's more and more great events to watch. Instead he has to turn it into a contest for some reason. I think he just wanted to brag about running tours at Dreamhack. When focusing on numbers which are totally uninteresting to just boost your business then it's bad which has to be pointed out, I love E-sport overall and I don't want anything else than MLG to grow. But they have to grow for the right reasons not how they can manipulate their sponsors and fans. I have an extremely hard time to believe that MLG Anaheim had 20 000 visitors while DreamHack Summer 2011 had 12 475. How is those 20 000 counted? Event pass is x3 and every day pass added on top? These questions grows at least in my head when you use numbers in a way that suits you the best. People in this thread BELIEVES that 35 million people watched MLG Anaheim, why you ask? Because that is the number MLG what everybody to see, even though it means nothing at all. Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 04:12 Odyssey wrote:On August 05 2011 04:06 Tschis wrote:On August 05 2011 03:55 Hellspawnl wrote:Using 35 million started streams is just a bullshit number to promote. Number of times a stream got loaded means nothing at all. 35 million streams started, 2,6 million of hours streamed means that EACH stream in average went on for 4,5 minutes, maybe not such a great number, I don't say it's bad either. What counts is Unique Viewers and average viewing time and Sundance responded to my tweet and said they will present that too when they got those numbers. Yes, I'm biased as I ran the SC2 Tours at DreamHack but compare this presentation with the DreamHacks Unique video views: 1,740,771
Absolute unique viewers: 1,494,026 What's the difference? I believe Dreamhack can thank LOL for a lot of their views. Keep in mind MLG is picking up LOL next event too. If Riot pushes MLG like they did Dreamhack with the link to MLG right after you sign into LOL I would expect MLG numbers to be much much larger. To be honest SC2 and LOL are where its at for gaming right now. When MLG start running both of them we will see a ton of new viewers. I'm going to end up having 3-4 streams up for every MLG now haha. The difference is that you have Uniques per stream and Unquies in totalt, at DreamHack it was like +20 different streams. Absolute is also absolute, so it didn't matter if someone was all 20 different streams No sorry mate, LoL was not included in those numbers as first of all it was run on own3d and also that it wasn't a DreamHack Tournament. Riot ran that event by them self in the exhibition area at DreamHack. I guess it feels good to try to spread false numbers, guess that will be the truth too =D
Thanks for clearing that up and no I wasn't trying to spread false rumors. If you read my opening sentence I clearly state I BELIEVE. Either way I don't really have any desire to continue this conversation with you any further. Thanks for clearing up the LOL numbers though that was news to me.
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Hooray im in guiness world records :D
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I refreshed the stream over a dozen times because it would not resume after "breaks". I also tuned in and out another dozen times. I also switched between Red and Blue many times. Do each of these count? I alone could account for 50+ views because of this. Is this really how they measure a view?
On August 05 2011 04:09 Chargelot wrote:
MLG Columbus had around 450K unique viewers. there is no way that unique viewers doubled.
I didn't watch MLG Columbus but I watched MLG Anaheim. There's a lot of us that did the same.
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The biggest point to take from these numbers is that the amount of people watching MLG is still growing. This is good because it probably means bigger prize pool (^_^), more events and many other things.
I find it strange though how there could be more watching this event though the times were way harder for us euros to watch, anyway <3<3 esport growing :D
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Regardless of whether or not MLG is inflating numbers to promote themselves, I don't see why people are so quick to criticize them. MLG is currently the best chance that the U.S. ESports scene has at matching the popularity of Esports in Korea.
I understand that this is the Internet and a lot of people want to sound cool and criticize everything, but how about some of you become less ignorant and more supportive of the growth of our amazing sport.
Remember, MLG doesn't HAVE to continue improving their online stream quality for spectators tourney after tourney, but they choose to for the good of the scene and for the continuing support of their viewers. Be grateful.
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to the people flaming the post for inflation, who fucking cares, any press at this point is good for SC2 and if you think otherwise you're ruining ESPORTS
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everytime a ad comes the stream crash and i have to refresh
so im like 2k-3k viewers NIce ^^
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My stream never froze, and congrats to MLG!
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On August 05 2011 04:45 PhattY` wrote:
Regardless of whether or not MLG is inflating numbers to promote themselves, I don't see why people are so quick to criticize them. MLG is currently the best chance that the U.S. ESports scene has at matching the popularity of Esports in Korea.
I understand that this is the Internet and a lot of people want to sound cool and criticize everything, but how about some of you become less ignorant and more supportive of the growth of our amazing sport.
Remember, MLG doesn't HAVE to continue improving their online stream quality for spectators tourney after tourney, but they choose to for the good of the scene and for the continuing support of their viewers. Be grateful.
because they lie.
if they wirte it this way, people could think they had 35 million viewers and obvious they had not.
You say: " but the lie help support esport, so dam you that you say they lie...." Oo
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On August 05 2011 04:53 ReaperX wrote:
My stream never froze, and congrats to MLG!
Same here. Viewing one on Ultra and one on Mid or Low and I didn't have any issues at all on either.
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im more impressed by the 171 country count than anything else!
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On August 05 2011 04:05 Frogsox wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 03:57 Bear4188 wrote:
2.6 million hours and 3 hours of stream / user would suggest just under 900000 unique users, which seems a reasonable number to me.
Good to see MLG getting healthy viewership.
Hellspawn, we don't need a pissing contest between a 3 game league and a massive LAN with like 5x as many games going on. I totally agree that it's great to see MLG growing. It's great for Esports in general as well as good for the viewers. Also, I don't know why people like Hellspawn bother coming in here with that sort of attitude. It's the same sort of fanboy rubbish you see with consoles etc etc. I don't understand why he can't be happy for the fact that Esports is growing as an industry and there's more and more great events to watch. Instead he has to turn it into a contest for some reason. I think he just wanted to brag about running tours at Dreamhack.
Why would two major sc2 organizers competing with each other be a bad thing? If anything it will benefit the viewers greatly. Lets say one tournament have 5 high quality streams and the viewers love it, the other tournament will feel heavy pressure to match or surpass that and so on. I don't get the mindset that they have to be all buddy buddy. Would you like that for any other service or product you buy?
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On August 05 2011 04:29 Oboeman wrote:
I think about 10 million of those views were me refreshing anytime there was a break, or I wanted to switch streams, or the stream stopped working.
Ye I think so too
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One is in America and one is in Europe. its not a competition. They aren't even on at the same time. Competing against each other is pointless.
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On August 05 2011 04:54 skeldark wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 04:45 PhattY` wrote:
Regardless of whether or not MLG is inflating numbers to promote themselves, I don't see why people are so quick to criticize them. MLG is currently the best chance that the U.S. ESports scene has at matching the popularity of Esports in Korea.
I understand that this is the Internet and a lot of people want to sound cool and criticize everything, but how about some of you become less ignorant and more supportive of the growth of our amazing sport.
Remember, MLG doesn't HAVE to continue improving their online stream quality for spectators tourney after tourney, but they choose to for the good of the scene and for the continuing support of their viewers. Be grateful. because they lie. if you wirte it this way people could think they had 35 million viewers and obvious they had not. You say: " but the lie help us support esport" so dam you that you say they lie...."
I don't get why people are saying that MLG is "lying" to us. They released factual numbers based upon the telemetry they recorded during the event. There will almost certainly be more data available as time goes on. People complaining about having to refresh etc, what do you want MLG to do? Do you think there is a realistic way for them to sort refreshes etc out of the numbers? I think a lot of people simply aren't engaging their brains to look at the information provided for what it is. They're trying to make it into something that it isn't or trying to over-analyse the information.
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On August 05 2011 04:58 TheResidentEvil wrote:
One is in America and one is in Europe. its not a competition. They aren't even on at the same time. Competing against each other is pointless.
Come on you can't seriously believe that? Also I'm talking in general, people have been saying the same things for other events.
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Someone tell MLG
"SELECT COUNT(DISTINCT ip) AS Total from Viewers"
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On August 05 2011 03:55 Hellspawnl wrote:Using 35 million started streams is just a bullshit number to promote. Number of times a stream got loaded means nothing at all. 35 million streams started, 2,6 million of hours streamed means that EACH stream in average went on for 4,5 minutes, maybe not such a great number, I don't say it's bad either. What counts is Unique Viewers and average viewing time and Sundance responded to my tweet and said they will present that too when they got those numbers. Yes, I'm biased as I ran the SC2 Tours at DreamHack but compare this presentation with the DreamHacks
For reference, how long did the average unique watch the streams at DH summer?
Absolute unique viewers: 1,494,026
Total Viewing Time (hours): 17,324 hours <-- I'm guessing this isn't the cumulative hours watched across all 1,494,026 uniques...right? That'd only be 41.7 seconds/unique. I imagine it's gotta be higher than that.
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On August 05 2011 04:59 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 04:58 TheResidentEvil wrote:
One is in America and one is in Europe. its not a competition. They aren't even on at the same time. Competing against each other is pointless. Come on you can't seriously believe that?
No I seriously do. Did you watch the Sundance interview about going into Europe? he explicitly states that he has no desire to go in and take over and compete. he is looking for people to partner with just like he did with GSL. Not everything is a competition.
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On August 05 2011 04:59 delo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 03:55 Hellspawnl wrote:Using 35 million started streams is just a bullshit number to promote. Number of times a stream got loaded means nothing at all. 35 million streams started, 2,6 million of hours streamed means that EACH stream in average went on for 4,5 minutes, maybe not such a great number, I don't say it's bad either. What counts is Unique Viewers and average viewing time and Sundance responded to my tweet and said they will present that too when they got those numbers. Yes, I'm biased as I ran the SC2 Tours at DreamHack but compare this presentation with the DreamHacks For reference, how long did the average unique watch the streams at DH summer? Absolute unique viewers: 1,494,026 Total Viewing Time (hours): 17,324 hours <-- I'm guessing this isn't the cumulative hours watched across all 1,494,026 uniques...right? That'd only be 41.7 seconds/unique. I imagine it's gotta be higher than that.
I would guess that it was supposed to be 17,324,000.
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Wow, viewers from 171 countries. Awesome!
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On August 05 2011 04:56 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 04:05 Frogsox wrote:On August 05 2011 03:57 Bear4188 wrote:
2.6 million hours and 3 hours of stream / user would suggest just under 900000 unique users, which seems a reasonable number to me.
Good to see MLG getting healthy viewership.
Hellspawn, we don't need a pissing contest between a 3 game league and a massive LAN with like 5x as many games going on. I totally agree that it's great to see MLG growing. It's great for Esports in general as well as good for the viewers. Also, I don't know why people like Hellspawn bother coming in here with that sort of attitude. It's the same sort of fanboy rubbish you see with consoles etc etc. I don't understand why he can't be happy for the fact that Esports is growing as an industry and there's more and more great events to watch. Instead he has to turn it into a contest for some reason. I think he just wanted to brag about running tours at Dreamhack. Why would two major sc2 organizers competing with each other be a bad thing? If anything it will benefit the viewers greatly. Lets say one tournament have 5 high quality streams and the viewers love it, the other tournament will feel heavy pressure to match or surpass that and so on. I don't get the mindset that they have to be all buddy buddy. Would you like that for any other service or product you buy?
I get what you mean and I actually agree. Events like Dreamhack and MLG should look to each other to find places where they can improve their coverage/structure so that the viewers benefit. I don't have any problem with that aspect of your comment or anyone else's. However, it's hard to compare the two events because they differ greatly in structure and organisation given that one is being run almost monthly while the other is biannual so it's not like they are in direct competition.
What I was really pointing out that people shouldn't come on here and try and turn some sort of reasonable discussion into a "my dad is stronger than your dad" kind of argument and trying to reason that one is bigger and better than the other despite the fact that it's not what the thread is about and it's not even really constructive. The main point of this should be that MLG is exhibiting strong signs of growth and people should be happy about that instead of trying to find ways to criticise the event/organisation.
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Let's see - did the viewers get a new commercial for each refresh? I only watched a couple hours myself so I don't remember how it worked.
(My rough hypothesis could be that advertisers are curious about how many times ads are viewed, and viewer hours + 'streams' might be relevant for that)
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On August 05 2011 05:02 Ryalnos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 04:59 delo wrote:On August 05 2011 03:55 Hellspawnl wrote:Using 35 million started streams is just a bullshit number to promote. Number of times a stream got loaded means nothing at all. 35 million streams started, 2,6 million of hours streamed means that EACH stream in average went on for 4,5 minutes, maybe not such a great number, I don't say it's bad either. What counts is Unique Viewers and average viewing time and Sundance responded to my tweet and said they will present that too when they got those numbers. Yes, I'm biased as I ran the SC2 Tours at DreamHack but compare this presentation with the DreamHacks For reference, how long did the average unique watch the streams at DH summer? Absolute unique viewers: 1,494,026 Total Viewing Time (hours): 17,324 hours <-- I'm guessing this isn't the cumulative hours watched across all 1,494,026 uniques...right? That'd only be 41.7 seconds/unique. I imagine it's gotta be higher than that. I would guess that it was supposed to be 17,324,000.
You would be wrong because that would mean the average unique watched like 11+ hours of dreamhack which I highly doubt.
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On August 05 2011 05:00 TheResidentEvil wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 04:59 nam nam wrote:On August 05 2011 04:58 TheResidentEvil wrote:
One is in America and one is in Europe. its not a competition. They aren't even on at the same time. Competing against each other is pointless. Come on you can't seriously believe that? No I seriously do. Did you watch the Sundance interview about going into Europe? he explicitly states that he has no desire to go in and take over and compete. he is looking for people to partner with just like he did with GSL. Not everything is a competition.
Exactly. This is where the fanboys ruin the day by trying to put one over the other instead of being happy for the fact that their interests in general are being advanced on multiple fronts to ensure that they're getting more of what they want at higher quality than they've ever seen before.
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On August 05 2011 04:54 skeldark wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 04:45 PhattY` wrote:
Regardless of whether or not MLG is inflating numbers to promote themselves, I don't see why people are so quick to criticize them. MLG is currently the best chance that the U.S. ESports scene has at matching the popularity of Esports in Korea.
I understand that this is the Internet and a lot of people want to sound cool and criticize everything, but how about some of you become less ignorant and more supportive of the growth of our amazing sport.
Remember, MLG doesn't HAVE to continue improving their online stream quality for spectators tourney after tourney, but they choose to for the good of the scene and for the continuing support of their viewers. Be grateful. because they lie. if they wirte it this way, people could think they had 35 million viewers and obvious they had not. You say: " but the lie help support esport, so dam you that you say they lie...." Oo
Are they hurting your feelings if they lie? Are they hurting anyone if they "lie"? In all honesty, whether they 1 viewer or 10000000000 viewers, business is business and they'll attempt to spin any negativity into a positive thing for the company. That's how businesses work, welcome to the 21st century. My point is that MLG is doing nothing but good things for the eSports community and all people want to point out is that they had to F5 every once in awhile? Grow up, stop being lazy and enjoy the game.
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And still MLG price pool is so low.
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Good input as always Hellspawn. When e-sport is getting bigger we ofcourse need to keep supporting good organizations like MLG and DH but we also need to question them. And Hellspawn is one of those people who does just that.
Id like to know the amount of unique viewers they had. I do not doubt its a record aswell, but i guess it doesnt look as nice as 35M.
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On August 05 2011 05:05 Ryalnos wrote:
Let's see - did the viewers get a new commercial for each refresh? I only watched a couple hours myself so I don't remember how it worked.
(My rough hypothesis could be that advertisers are curious about how many times ads are viewed, and viewer hours + 'streams' might be relevant for that)
Another valid point which I've seen a couple of times already.
I think people are (among other things) not looking at the information for what it is. It's almost certainly primarily for sponsors and advertisers to look at to see what sort of gains they can make through advertising/sponsoring the event with their products. This kind of information is good for MLG so that they can help attract more money through new sponsors or improve their deals with their existing sponsors.
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Impressive. I find the 20 000 visitor number a bit dodgy though, from what I've seen it looked more like 8000-10 000 but I could be wrong.
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On August 05 2011 05:02 Ryalnos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 04:59 delo wrote:On August 05 2011 03:55 Hellspawnl wrote:Using 35 million started streams is just a bullshit number to promote. Number of times a stream got loaded means nothing at all. 35 million streams started, 2,6 million of hours streamed means that EACH stream in average went on for 4,5 minutes, maybe not such a great number, I don't say it's bad either. What counts is Unique Viewers and average viewing time and Sundance responded to my tweet and said they will present that too when they got those numbers. Yes, I'm biased as I ran the SC2 Tours at DreamHack but compare this presentation with the DreamHacks For reference, how long did the average unique watch the streams at DH summer? Absolute unique viewers: 1,494,026 Total Viewing Time (hours): 17,324 hours <-- I'm guessing this isn't the cumulative hours watched across all 1,494,026 uniques...right? That'd only be 41.7 seconds/unique. I imagine it's gotta be higher than that. I would guess that it was supposed to be 17,324,000.
To get a true comparison we need the starcraft ONLY numbers. I don't know if that's doable. I kind a like MLG, but Im North American. Im sure the Europeans like Dreamhack more. Dreamhack is run so smooth, MLG more messy, but I get much more drawn in, more involved, can't put my finger on it. Seems more free wheeling fan oriented.
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On August 05 2011 03:55 Hellspawnl wrote:Using 35 million started streams is just a bullshit number to promote. Number of times a stream got loaded means nothing at all. 35 million streams started, 2,6 million of hours streamed means that EACH stream in average went on for 4,5 minutes, maybe not such a great number, I don't say it's bad either. What counts is Unique Viewers and average viewing time and Sundance responded to my tweet and said they will present that too when they got those numbers. Yes, I'm biased as I ran the SC2 Tours at DreamHack but compare this presentation with the DreamHacks
Yea, its a bullshit number, i got nothing against MLG but i also suspect they might have used tactics to inflate the numbers, i bought the HD stream and probably about 20-30 times throughout the entire event (wich i didnt watch every hour of, far from it actually) the stream would stop and it would tell me my code is being used (when it definitely wasnt i onyly ever had 1 stream open) and i would have to input the number again and restart the stream. So for me alone my number of stream initiations is inflated by 30, if even half the people had the same problem as me that would be siginificantly lower stream initiations right there.
To me only live numbers are meaningful, stream initiations could even imply a poor streaming service because of people constantly having to restart their streams, its the wrong number to advertise in my mind, because we know there wasnt even close to a million people watching, MAYBE 100-150k MAX (for starcraft, and i would assume other games would have siginificantly lower stream numbers.)
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On August 05 2011 05:13 K_Dilkington wrote:
Impressive. I find the 20 000 visitor number a bit dodgy though, from what I've seen it looked more like 8000-10 000 but I could be wrong.
Well, 20,000 visitors over the 3 days is reasonable I think. I'm sure there were people who attended one day and not another, people who bought passes but were unable to actually attend or people who attended for part of the day. I mean, some people were able to go during the morning then had to leave and there would be people who were only able to attend in the afternoon etc. It's not like a football game where the half time attendance is indicative of the exact number of people at the event.
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MLG Colombus was 22.5M stream views in June.
MLG Anaheim was 35M stream views in August.
Thats like 50% growth in 2 months. Yes stream views can be inaccurate but the Anaheim stream was more stable than Colombus, which makes the figure even more impressive.
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On August 05 2011 05:13 K_Dilkington wrote:
Impressive. I find the 20 000 visitor number a bit dodgy though, from what I've seen it looked more like 8000-10 000 but I could be wrong.
That number is almost certainly inflated by people only going to one of the days, rebuying their entry bracelet each day because they don't know any better etc.
I like the rest of you wish we got some straight up unique views numbers and concurrent views numbers, but I don't see why there's all this vitriol about it. They're statistics, the number one source of misinformation in the world.
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On August 05 2011 05:15 cheesemaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 03:55 Hellspawnl wrote:Using 35 million started streams is just a bullshit number to promote. Number of times a stream got loaded means nothing at all. 35 million streams started, 2,6 million of hours streamed means that EACH stream in average went on for 4,5 minutes, maybe not such a great number, I don't say it's bad either. What counts is Unique Viewers and average viewing time and Sundance responded to my tweet and said they will present that too when they got those numbers. Yes, I'm biased as I ran the SC2 Tours at DreamHack but compare this presentation with the DreamHacks Yea, its a bullshit number, i got nothing against MLG but i also suspect they might have used tactics to inflate the numbers, i bought the HD stream and probably about 20-30 times throughout the entire event (wich i didnt watch every hour of, far from it actually) the stream would stop and it would tell me my code is being used (when it definitely wasnt i onyly ever had 1 stream open) and i would have to input the number again and restart the stream. So for me alone my number of stream initiations is inflated by 30, if even half the people had the same problem as me that would be siginificantly lower stream initiations right there. To me only live numbers are meaningful, stream initiations could even imply a poor streaming service because of people constantly having to restart their streams, its the wrong number to advertise in my mind, because we know there wasnt even close to a million people watching, MAYBE 100-150k MAX (for starcraft, and i would assume other games would have siginificantly lower stream numbers.)
Wow...some people certainly are cynical. Self sabotage seems pretty ridiculous to me. It wouldn't take long for that tactic to wear thin on the viewers and viewership would drop drastically and sponsors would leave. I don't think they intentionally want stream issues to occur. Also, why not give the feedback to MLG directly telling them what problems you had with the stream so they can correct them? Or is it easier to complain instead of doing something constructive?
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How do you know he hasn't?
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There are three numbers in there:
35 million stream views
2.6 million hours of video consumed
average user time per stream was more than three hours
The relationship between these three is views = total hours/average user time.
35.000.000 = 2.600.000/3
That does not work out. Something's fishy. Even then, we should probably divide the right hand side by some number >1 to account for people watching multiple streams at once.
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On August 05 2011 04:12 Exarl25 wrote:
With regards to the 35 million number, I don't think people understand that this is the number advertisers are mainly interested in. This was explained when stream numbers were released for the last MLG.
Advertisers also want to look at Unique Viewers. Companies with marketing budget that want to invest in eSports are not stupid and want real numbers to look at.
If you want to invest in advertising on a online streamed tournament you look at every statistics that is possible and Unique Viewers are a really important stat for this, but you also want to look at number of views.
MLG would look more serious if they released both of the numbers. Right now some will look at it and be sceptical, which is sad because I bet that the UV for MLG are fantastic.
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On August 05 2011 05:19 RoboBob wrote:
MLG Colombus was 22.5M stream views in June.
MLG Anaheim was 35M stream views in August.
Thats like 50% growth in 2 months. Yes stream views can be inaccurate but the Anaheim stream was more stable than Colombus, which makes the figure even more impressive.
The Anaheim stream was everything but stable. I had to refresh 50-100 times because of the problems a lot of people had
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On August 05 2011 05:25 nam nam wrote:
How do you know he hasn't?
Experience tells me that most people prefer to complain to others about a bad experience/something they have problems with rather than do anything constructive with their opinion. Where I work the people that complain almost always refuse to fill in a comments/feedback form because they can't be bothered or don't think it's worth it.
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On August 05 2011 05:06 Domination wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 05:02 Ryalnos wrote:On August 05 2011 04:59 delo wrote:On August 05 2011 03:55 Hellspawnl wrote:Using 35 million started streams is just a bullshit number to promote. Number of times a stream got loaded means nothing at all. 35 million streams started, 2,6 million of hours streamed means that EACH stream in average went on for 4,5 minutes, maybe not such a great number, I don't say it's bad either. What counts is Unique Viewers and average viewing time and Sundance responded to my tweet and said they will present that too when they got those numbers. Yes, I'm biased as I ran the SC2 Tours at DreamHack but compare this presentation with the DreamHacks For reference, how long did the average unique watch the streams at DH summer? Absolute unique viewers: 1,494,026 Total Viewing Time (hours): 17,324 hours <-- I'm guessing this isn't the cumulative hours watched across all 1,494,026 uniques...right? That'd only be 41.7 seconds/unique. I imagine it's gotta be higher than that. I would guess that it was supposed to be 17,324,000. You would be wrong because that would mean the average unique watched like 11+ hours of dreamhack which I highly doubt.
You have a fair point there which I overlooked. 17,324 seemed absurdly small so my first guess was that it was off by some zeroes. After that my guess was 1,732,400 but that starts to feel almost a little small (though 1 hr average per viewer is not that unreasonable, especially if you consider how many might have been watching due to Riot's embedding of the streams in the LoL client).
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On August 05 2011 05:28 alexhard wrote:
There are three numbers in there:
35 million stream views
2.6 million hours of video consumed
average user time per stream was more than three hours
The relationship between these three is views = total hours/average user time.
35.000.000 = 2.600.000/3
That does not work out. Something's fishy. Even then, we should probably divide the right hand side by some number >1 to account for people watching multiple streams at once.
35,000,000 is basically streams initiated. Lots of people initiated streams multiple times throughout the weekend. 2,600,000 / 3 appears to be the closest thing to a viewer count being handed out in these statistics, but that might double or triple count people with multiple streams open.
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On August 05 2011 05:31 Ladnil wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 05:28 alexhard wrote:
There are three numbers in there:
35 million stream views
2.6 million hours of video consumed
average user time per stream was more than three hours
The relationship between these three is views = total hours/average user time.
35.000.000 = 2.600.000/3
That does not work out. Something's fishy. Even then, we should probably divide the right hand side by some number >1 to account for people watching multiple streams at once. 35,000,000 is basically streams initiated. Lots of people initiated streams multiple times throughout the weekend. 2,600,000 / 3 appears to be the closest thing to a viewer count being handed out in these statistics, but that might double or triple count people with multiple streams open.
I only ever had one stream open. I would guess that the average streams open at once per person is something moderate like ~1.2.
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On August 05 2011 05:28 TheSilverfox wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 04:12 Exarl25 wrote:
With regards to the 35 million number, I don't think people understand that this is the number advertisers are mainly interested in. This was explained when stream numbers were released for the last MLG. Advertisers also want to look at Unique Viewers. Companies with marketing budget that want to invest in eSports are not stupid and want real numbers to look at. If you want to invest in advertising on a online streamed tournament you look at every statistics that is possible and Unique Viewers are a really important stat for this, but you also want to look at number of views. MLG would look more serious if they released both of the numbers. Right now some will look at it and be sceptical, which is sad because I bet that the UV for MLG are fantastic.
I'd go ahead and say that either the unique viewership statistics haven't been released yet, or they've only been released privately to sponsors or advertisers. It's unlikely that MLG would be sitting on those numbers and letting them go to waste unless there was a reason for us/others not knowing what they were.
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On August 05 2011 04:21 Hellspawnl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 04:05 Frogsox wrote:On August 05 2011 03:57 Bear4188 wrote:
2.6 million hours and 3 hours of stream / user would suggest just under 900000 unique users, which seems a reasonable number to me.
Good to see MLG getting healthy viewership.
Hellspawn, we don't need a pissing contest between a 3 game league and a massive LAN with like 5x as many games going on. I totally agree that it's great to see MLG growing. It's great for Esports in general as well as good for the viewers. Also, I don't know why people like Hellspawn bother coming in here with that sort of attitude. It's the same sort of fanboy rubbish you see with consoles etc etc. I don't understand why he can't be happy for the fact that Esports is growing as an industry and there's more and more great events to watch. Instead he has to turn it into a contest for some reason. I think he just wanted to brag about running tours at Dreamhack. When focusing on numbers which are totally uninteresting to just boost your business then it's bad which has to be pointed out, I love E-sport overall and I don't want anything else than MLG to grow. But they have to grow for the right reasons not how they can manipulate their sponsors and fans. I have an extremely hard time to believe that MLG Anaheim had 20 000 visitors while DreamHack Summer 2011 had 12 475. How is those 20 000 counted? Event pass is x3 and every day pass added on top? These questions grows at least in my head when you use numbers in a way that suits you the best. People in this thread BELIEVES that 35 million people watched MLG Anaheim, why you ask? Because that is the number MLG what everybody to see, even though it means nothing at all. Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 04:12 Odyssey wrote:On August 05 2011 04:06 Tschis wrote:On August 05 2011 03:55 Hellspawnl wrote:Using 35 million started streams is just a bullshit number to promote. Number of times a stream got loaded means nothing at all. 35 million streams started, 2,6 million of hours streamed means that EACH stream in average went on for 4,5 minutes, maybe not such a great number, I don't say it's bad either. What counts is Unique Viewers and average viewing time and Sundance responded to my tweet and said they will present that too when they got those numbers. Yes, I'm biased as I ran the SC2 Tours at DreamHack but compare this presentation with the DreamHacks Unique video views: 1,740,771
Absolute unique viewers: 1,494,026 What's the difference? I believe Dreamhack can thank LOL for a lot of their views. Keep in mind MLG is picking up LOL next event too. If Riot pushes MLG like they did Dreamhack with the link to MLG right after you sign into LOL I would expect MLG numbers to be much much larger. To be honest SC2 and LOL are where its at for gaming right now. When MLG start running both of them we will see a ton of new viewers. I'm going to end up having 3-4 streams up for every MLG now haha. The difference is that you have Uniques per stream and Unquies in totalt, at DreamHack it was like +20 different streams. Absolute is also absolute, so it didn't matter if someone was all 20 different streams No sorry mate, LoL was not included in those numbers as first of all it was run on own3d and also that it wasn't a DreamHack Tournament. Riot ran that event by them self in the exhibition area at DreamHack. I guess it feels good to try to spread false numbers, guess that will be the truth too =D
Jesus christ you really going to do this? You come in here criticizing good news just because they stated factual numbers? Nothing they said was incorrect. They never said 35 million unique viewers. Get off your high horse and stop thrashing other companies just because you are offended how they present their numbers. Sundance already tweeted they will release unique viewers when that number is available. Will you then come in and bash them by saying they manipulated those numbers as well? Let MLG have their time in the light and when your event comes around just do your best. That's all the viewers want, not some stupid muscle flexing over the internet.
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All right, I'll say it.
ESPORTS.
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On August 05 2011 05:33 Frogsox wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 05:28 TheSilverfox wrote:On August 05 2011 04:12 Exarl25 wrote:
With regards to the 35 million number, I don't think people understand that this is the number advertisers are mainly interested in. This was explained when stream numbers were released for the last MLG. Advertisers also want to look at Unique Viewers. Companies with marketing budget that want to invest in eSports are not stupid and want real numbers to look at. If you want to invest in advertising on a online streamed tournament you look at every statistics that is possible and Unique Viewers are a really important stat for this, but you also want to look at number of views. MLG would look more serious if they released both of the numbers. Right now some will look at it and be sceptical, which is sad because I bet that the UV for MLG are fantastic. I'd go ahead and say that either the unique viewership statistics haven't been released yet, or they've only been released privately to sponsors or advertisers. It's unlikely that MLG would be sitting on those numbers and letting them go to waste unless there was a reason for us/others not knowing what they were.
It could be so, and I'm certain that they will release these numbers soon.
But I still think it would look a lot more serious if these numbers were added in the Press Release. Hey, I would rather wait 2-3 days and get these numbers added to look more serious.
Don't get me wrong here. I think MLG Anaheim numbers are great - I just think that the release could be more awesome :D.
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i dunno if refreshing the page 150 times over the mlg weekend counts each as a unique view due to my screen going black randomly after each commercial, but yea that can explain why there was so many viewers.
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On August 05 2011 05:48 OrangeSoda wrote:
i dunno if refreshing the page 150 times over the mlg weekend counts each as a unique view due to my screen going black randomly after each commercial, but yea that can explain why there was so many viewers.
You should get a Gold/Silver pass and therefore forgo the ads and drop outs ;-D
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Hellspawnlord
PLEASE can #MLG stop announcing bullshit numbers? 35 million started streams, WHO CARES? #MLGAnaheim @@MLGSundance @MLGLee @Slasher
2 hours ago
MLGSundance
@Hellspawnlord how is it BS? It's a standard measurement of video engagement on the web for live stream events along with concurrents.
2 hours ago
Hellspawnlord
@MLGSundance As the unique numbers, the reach, is the most important. How many times the stream restarted or people sapping through it is BS
2 hours ago via web
MLGSundance
@Hellspawnlord keep in mind - press releases are for the mainstream press. They look for comparable numbers and stats. Have a nice day.
2 hours ago
MLGSundance
@Hellspawnlord well once we get the all in numbers from our distribution partners (IMG, Justin and others) we will release that as well.
2 hours ago
*sigh*
User was warned for this post
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On August 05 2011 05:55 delo wrote:Show nested quote +Hellspawnlord
PLEASE can #MLG stop announcing bullshit numbers? 35 million started streams, WHO CARES? #MLGAnaheim @@MLGSundance @MLGLee @Slasher
2 hours ago
MLGSundance
@Hellspawnlord how is it BS? It's a standard measurement of video engagement on the web for live stream events along with concurrents.
2 hours ago
Hellspawnlord
@MLGSundance As the unique numbers, the reach, is the most important. How many times the stream restarted or people sapping through it is BS
2 hours ago via web
MLGSundance
@Hellspawnlord keep in mind - press releases are for the mainstream press. They look for comparable numbers and stats. Have a nice day.
2 hours ago
MLGSundance
@Hellspawnlord well once we get the all in numbers from our distribution partners (IMG, Justin and others) we will release that as well.
2 hours ago *sigh*
is hellspawnlord that bs kotaku guy ?
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On August 05 2011 05:55 delo wrote:Show nested quote +Hellspawnlord
PLEASE can #MLG stop announcing bullshit numbers? 35 million started streams, WHO CARES? #MLGAnaheim @@MLGSundance @MLGLee @Slasher
2 hours ago
MLGSundance
@Hellspawnlord how is it BS? It's a standard measurement of video engagement on the web for live stream events along with concurrents.
2 hours ago
Hellspawnlord
@MLGSundance As the unique numbers, the reach, is the most important. How many times the stream restarted or people sapping through it is BS
2 hours ago via web
MLGSundance
@Hellspawnlord keep in mind - press releases are for the mainstream press. They look for comparable numbers and stats. Have a nice day.
2 hours ago
MLGSundance
@Hellspawnlord well once we get the all in numbers from our distribution partners (IMG, Justin and others) we will release that as well.
2 hours ago *sigh*
Pwned.
User was warned for this post
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SC2 is making MLG much more popular, everything on their main site is centered around Starcraft now. This is great news for us, but also not a surprise. We all know the game is a 10 in the competitive world, it is just a matter of reaching more audience and informing them.
The reason this press release is getting some bad comments is because it was written in such a way that it is confusing and after reading it your left wondering what all the numbers even mean.
The technical writer did not do so well with this one, so it may be good press but it's also bad press.
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On August 05 2011 05:55 delo wrote:Show nested quote +Hellspawnlord
PLEASE can #MLG stop announcing bullshit numbers? 35 million started streams, WHO CARES? #MLGAnaheim @@MLGSundance @MLGLee @Slasher
2 hours ago
MLGSundance
@Hellspawnlord how is it BS? It's a standard measurement of video engagement on the web for live stream events along with concurrents.
2 hours ago
Hellspawnlord
@MLGSundance As the unique numbers, the reach, is the most important. How many times the stream restarted or people sapping through it is BS
2 hours ago via web
MLGSundance
@Hellspawnlord keep in mind - press releases are for the mainstream press. They look for comparable numbers and stats. Have a nice day.
2 hours ago
MLGSundance
@Hellspawnlord well once we get the all in numbers from our distribution partners (IMG, Justin and others) we will release that as well.
2 hours ago *sigh*
oh Hellspawn.... /facepalm
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Hellspawn: Head Admin of Dreamhack Starcraft 2
Not cool.
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haha MLG and dreamhack are sniping at each other now, hope some competition grows out of this
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On August 05 2011 06:09 Sandro wrote:
haha MLG and dreamhack are sniping at each other now, hope some competition grows out of this
there won't be any, because MLGSundance wants to work with everyone.
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On August 05 2011 06:09 Sandro wrote:
haha MLG and dreamhack are sniping at each other now, hope some competition grows out of this
I don't think direct competition is really desirable or realistic given how different the events are in there frequency and scope. Not to mention that the competitors are free to enter what ever competitions they want to and are easily able to attend both.
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On August 05 2011 06:04 TheResidentEvil wrote:
Hellspawn: Head Admin of Dreamhack Starcraft 2
Not cool.
Wait, is this correct? I would be shocked if such an unprofessional person would be in such a position.
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I somewhat agree with hellspawn that it's unnecessary to discuss random numbers on a site like this, where everyone know they don't mean anything, but there's no need to get all hostile about it :p
On August 05 2011 06:13 Ryalnos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 06:04 TheResidentEvil wrote:
Hellspawn: Head Admin of Dreamhack Starcraft 2
Not cool. Wait, is this correct? I would be shocked if such an unprofessional person would be in such a position.
He doesnt work full time, his community involvement is through rakaka.se
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On August 05 2011 06:13 busbarn wrote:I somewhat agree with hellspawn that it's unnecessary to discuss random numbers on a site like this, where everyone know they don't mean anything, but there's no need to get all hostile about it :p Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 06:13 Ryalnos wrote:On August 05 2011 06:04 TheResidentEvil wrote:
Hellspawn: Head Admin of Dreamhack Starcraft 2
Not cool. Wait, is this correct? I would be shocked if such an unprofessional person would be in such a position. He doesnt work full time, his community involvement is through rakaka.se
(Edit: nevermind, point not worth arguing.)
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Unique views could easily double.
At some point I got my grilfriend to watch DRG vs MVP, so when last time it was just me, this time it was 2 diferent viewers :p
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It would be nice if DreamHack put up correct viewing hours, if it's necessary to actually compare  .
That is arguably just as useful a measure as unique viewers.
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On August 05 2011 06:13 busbarn wrote:I somewhat agree with hellspawn that it's unnecessary to discuss random numbers on a site like this, where everyone know they don't mean anything, but there's no need to get all hostile about it :p Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 06:13 Ryalnos wrote:On August 05 2011 06:04 TheResidentEvil wrote:
Hellspawn: Head Admin of Dreamhack Starcraft 2
Not cool. Wait, is this correct? I would be shocked if such an unprofessional person would be in such a position. He doesnt work full time, his community involvement is through rakaka.se
While they aren't too worthwhile here (other than the obvious growth of views from 22.5 million to 35 million, which is just good in general), MLG didn't post them here. They sent out a press release. I think Hellspawn's reaction was rather out of line. MLG didn't release this for us to discuss. They released it for their sponsors and potential sponsors, as thats the number they want to see, which we learned last time MLG released total views for Columbus.
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On August 05 2011 06:04 TheResidentEvil wrote:
Hellspawn: Head Admin of Dreamhack Starcraft 2
Not cool.
Really immature of someone in that position to act like this.
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I don't understand why this release is making people so upset. I just hope the revenue get reinvested into sc2 and not into supporting 5 new titles on the MLG circuit next year, because that 5k top prize is looking kind of silly.
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Some very crude math suggests there may have been just around 700,000 unique viewers. I base this on that the stream views reported for Columbus were 22,5 million and the unique views we're 450,000. 22.5 million is about 64% of 35 million, so if you assume that the unique viewers increased at the same rate as stream views did, you end up around 700,000. Note that this is extremely unreliable though and just speculation on my part.
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well....u had to refresh the stream after every f**kn map because of the blackscreen....now i know why!
35million views...lol
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Hellspawn needs to approach this in a much better manner, he's turning me off from even wanting to watch Dreamhack because he has involvement with them. His complaint seems petty and as has been explained, the number is the number MLG sponsors care about. Act professional, take your complaint to Sundance in a private manner.
Anyways, congratulations MLG for huge growth in numbers, I don't see how anyone can say that the amount of people watching didn't go up. I'd guess with the amount of people that had multiple streams open there were around 700,000~ or so unique viewers, and that might be low balling it ever so slightly. Next event where they have LoL and possibly hon should increase unique viewers by a ton as well, especially if Riot gets on board with promoting the stream.
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20k visitors may be possible if you sum up attendeenumbers of all 3 days. (the fact that many visitors attended all 3 days throws this stat pretty much off.) and for the streamviews, hellspawn said it all. I will wait for the unique viewers. At the end of the day it was a great event and those numbers are only interesting for a small amount of people. (including the ones that matter though)
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Awesome. Congrats to MLG. The events have been a blast. The only complaint from a home viewer from this last event was the the crowd level was lower, or at least seemed to be at home. It seemed to me like the crowd was not nearly as lively, but I think it was just the sound leveling.
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On August 05 2011 06:34 coddan wrote:
Some very crude math suggests there may have been just around 700,000 unique viewers. I base this on that the stream views reported for Columbus were 22,5 million and the unique views we're 450,000. 22.5 million is about 64% of 35 million, so if you assume that the unique viewers increased at the same rate as stream views did, you end up around 700,000. Note that this is extremely unreliable though and just speculation on my part.
I doubt your math is correct - in Cbus you could open 2 streams at once, but MLG changed it. During MLG Anaheim you had to switch between streams all the time and therefore its logic the streamnumbers are higher. Unique Viewers is a much more reliable stat.
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Why is hellspawn so butthurt? I'm confused. Nobody is hurt by MLG's numbers.
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On August 05 2011 06:48 zul wrote:
20k visitors may be possible if you sum up attendeenumbers of all 3 days. (the fact that many visitors attended all 3 days throws this stat pretty much off.) and for the streamviews, hellspawn said it all. I will wait for the unique viewers. At the end of the day it was a great event and those numbers are only interesting for a small amount of people. (including the ones that matter though)
Its funny how hellspawn asks who cares in his tweet. You know who cares? the fucking sponsors (as you implied in your last statement).
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On August 05 2011 06:53 zul wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 06:34 coddan wrote:
Some very crude math suggests there may have been just around 700,000 unique viewers. I base this on that the stream views reported for Columbus were 22,5 million and the unique views we're 450,000. 22.5 million is about 64% of 35 million, so if you assume that the unique viewers increased at the same rate as stream views did, you end up around 700,000. Note that this is extremely unreliable though and just speculation on my part. I doubt your math is correct - in Cbus you could open 2 streams at once, but MLG changed it. During MLG Anaheim you had to switch between streams all the time and therefore its logic the streamnumbers are higher. Unique Viewers is a much more reliable stat.
You could have two streams up the whole time, just not two HQ streams.
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On August 05 2011 06:22 Ryalnos wrote:It would be nice if DreamHack put up correct viewing hours, if it's necessary to actually compare . That is arguably just as useful a measure as unique viewers.
It will be hard to compare the numbers between MLG and Dreamhack since the difference in stream structure. Comparing the viewing hours would give an advantage to Dreamhack since they had more streams and people like me, who watched several streams at once, would get 3-4 viewing hours for every real time hour watching.
Hellspawn is silly and it feels like his twitter posts are a little bit too immature for someone in his position.
We shouldn't really be bashing these numbers since these are the numbers sponsors use to decide how much they should put into esports. If MLG would provide 100 times lower number in their next press release due to them only accounting for every stream viewer with an unique IP watching the games for more than 1h then the amount of money from sponsors for the next event would be at least 10 times lower.
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On August 05 2011 06:23 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 06:13 busbarn wrote:I somewhat agree with hellspawn that it's unnecessary to discuss random numbers on a site like this, where everyone know they don't mean anything, but there's no need to get all hostile about it :p On August 05 2011 06:13 Ryalnos wrote:On August 05 2011 06:04 TheResidentEvil wrote:
Hellspawn: Head Admin of Dreamhack Starcraft 2
Not cool. Wait, is this correct? I would be shocked if such an unprofessional person would be in such a position. He doesnt work full time, his community involvement is through rakaka.se While they aren't too worthwhile here (other than the obvious growth of views from 22.5 million to 35 million, which is just good in general), MLG didn't post them here. They sent out a press release. I think Hellspawn's reaction was rather out of line. MLG didn't release this for us to discuss. They released it for their sponsors and potential sponsors, as thats the number they want to see, which we learned last time MLG released total views for Columbus.
Of course the sponsor wants number that make the event looks as good as possible through the eyes of a casual beholder. So? Saying it was not for us to discuss is a silly argument to make.
I agree with people that thinks hellspawn expressed himself poorly but I fully agree with his point - those number are not much better than being worthless. And just because he's a dreamhack representative shouldn't mean he can't express his opinion.
For the record this won't effect my desire to watch either tournament one bit, I'm still tuning in and it's silly for people to threaten to stop watching them because it.
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Awesome to see the event gain so much steam in a small period of time. 171 countries viewing is insane! Live attendance was higher than ever before as well. Keep it up.
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On August 05 2011 06:55 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 06:53 zul wrote:On August 05 2011 06:34 coddan wrote:
Some very crude math suggests there may have been just around 700,000 unique viewers. I base this on that the stream views reported for Columbus were 22,5 million and the unique views we're 450,000. 22.5 million is about 64% of 35 million, so if you assume that the unique viewers increased at the same rate as stream views did, you end up around 700,000. Note that this is extremely unreliable though and just speculation on my part. I doubt your math is correct - in Cbus you could open 2 streams at once, but MLG changed it. During MLG Anaheim you had to switch between streams all the time and therefore its logic the streamnumbers are higher. Unique Viewers is a much more reliable stat. You could have two streams up the whole time, just not two HQ streams.
ok - then I apologize for generalisation and admit I was just semiright.
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Yes we are the best! most of the people watching are from this very site im sure lol. So great to see records being broken, mainly due to SC2.
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This number doesn't mean really much tbh. If the spectators and HD passes or memberships not high enough, obviously the rest are just free SD quality viewers
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These numbers are useless. You can't even compare then to columbus numbers because the 22.5m refreshes in comparison to the 35m of Anaheim probably has more to do with how the stream operates than how many people are watching. These numbers are really bad and mlg really needs to change their take on what numBers they release. People on a forum can see through this, investors are probably smarter and will ask for real figures too. In the future I hope mlg releases meaningful figures only such as unique viewers or total hours watched by everyone.
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I don't like being involved in forum wars but I reply to the accusation of me being unprofessional, biased and wanting to start a war between MLG and DreamHack.
I am first and for most an "E-sport journalist" who's actually doesn't just take what people, organizations or tournament organizers say for granted, I try to have an objective and critical approach as I know from my knowledge of the scene that it's needed.
If I was just around to promote DreamHack and get people to hate MLG why would I fly to MLG Anaheim from Sweden to make Rakakas first coverage. We did by far the most content and actually a lot of people thought it was great. Watch the +20 interviews here
So why do I take this discussion publicly on Twitter and Teamliquids forums? Because the numbers are released and publicly discussed. Therefore it's needed to approach them for what they are worth and what they mean. I really think we need to have a huge discussion about streaming numbers because this is not the first time this has happened and it's actually extremely important that we convergent to comparable numbers.
If MLG communicates the number 22 million views which they did from MLG Columbus when they actually had 450 000 unique viewers (something like that), which is a ratio between views and unique that I have NEVER seen anything like.
If you compare this weekends two big events MLG Anaheim and Evolution Las Vegas. MLG says 35 million views and what it seems from calculations they mean 700k-900k unique and Evo communicates "over 2 million unique viewers". Which one do you think had the most successful event and can in the future land the biggest sponsors deals?
Remember that most people just read the topic which actually is even more true when it comes to "suits" in big cooperation. So where would you put your money? In an 35 million event or in an "over 2 million" event? If you don't get that or don't understand the difference and the very bad communications method MLG uses then there ain't much I can do.
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On August 05 2011 06:53 Sideburn wrote:
Why is hellspawn so butthurt? I'm confused. Nobody is hurt by MLG's numbers.
Because the numbers are insanely misleading and only meant to entice sponsors while not giving an indication of the true stream numbers.
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On August 05 2011 06:40 draumr wrote:
Hellspawn needs to approach this in a much better manner, he's turning me off from even wanting to watch Dreamhack because he has involvement with them. His complaint seems petty and as has been explained, the number is the number MLG sponsors care about. Act professional, take your complaint to Sundance in a private manner.
Anyways, congratulations MLG for huge growth in numbers, I don't see how anyone can say that the amount of people watching didn't go up. I'd guess with the amount of people that had multiple streams open there were around 700,000~ or so unique viewers, and that might be low balling it ever so slightly. Next event where they have LoL and possibly hon should increase unique viewers by a ton as well, especially if Riot gets on board with promoting the stream.
I agree with this about Hellspawn, It's unprofessional when you're representing both Rakaka.se and DreamHack. They invited you to MLG and then you backstab them on their hospitality. Or were you hurt by the comment Slasher make on your backstage tour of how you didn't do research about the people involve in MLG organization before coming to MLG?
On August 05 2011 07:05 Hellspawnl wrote:
... If MLG communicates the number 22 million views which they did from MLG Columbus when they actually had 450 000 unique viewers (something like that), which is a ratio between views and unique that I have NEVER seen anything like.
I don't have any problem with the stream, because I don't have adblockplus on. The reason why the number seem inflated is because it's mostly brought upon on by yourself (people who use adblockplus excluding some legit technical issue such as pass code error). Watching ads to support E-Sport in background with mute on is less hassle than having to refresh every time stream black out when ads come on and didn't resume stream.
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Not sure what you expect Hellspawn. MLG didn't lie about any numbers. They didn't intentionally mislead.
They reported a statistic that is most likely to entice sponsors. Usually that is the goal with this sort of press release.
They would be absolutely retarded to do otherwise. Maybe evo should follow suit. No one is stopping them.
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On August 05 2011 07:07 Xkalibert wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 06:40 draumr wrote:
Hellspawn needs to approach this in a much better manner, he's turning me off from even wanting to watch Dreamhack because he has involvement with them. His complaint seems petty and as has been explained, the number is the number MLG sponsors care about. Act professional, take your complaint to Sundance in a private manner.
Anyways, congratulations MLG for huge growth in numbers, I don't see how anyone can say that the amount of people watching didn't go up. I'd guess with the amount of people that had multiple streams open there were around 700,000~ or so unique viewers, and that might be low balling it ever so slightly. Next event where they have LoL and possibly hon should increase unique viewers by a ton as well, especially if Riot gets on board with promoting the stream. I agree with this about Hellspawn, It's unprofessional when you're representing both Rakaka.se and DreamHack. They invited you to MLG and then you backstab them for their hospitality. Or were you hurt by the comment Slasher make on your backstage tour of how you didn't do research about the people involve in MLG organization before coming to MLG? I don't have any problem with the stream, because I don't have adblockplus on. The reason why the number seem inflamed is because it's mostly brought upon on by yourself (people who use adblockplus excluding some legit technical issue such as pass code error). Watching ads to support E-Sport in background with mute on is less hassle than having to refresh every time stream black out when ads come on and didn't resume stream.
I watched add every time i refreshed stream because it went black (i dont have adblock), don't speak about stuff u have no idea about.
Other part of ur post is just sad.
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numbers are over hyped, sad would like to know the true break down of it.
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Marketing organisations look very careful on viewers and would laugh about such data.
They care about how many watched what how long and how old and how rich he is and what his interests are.
this numbers are to mislead the press and guys on forums not the sponsors.
= they are published to mislead you guys....
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if anyone has earned the right to voice his opinion its hellspawn
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On August 05 2011 06:53 zul wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 06:34 coddan wrote:
Some very crude math suggests there may have been just around 700,000 unique viewers. I base this on that the stream views reported for Columbus were 22,5 million and the unique views we're 450,000. 22.5 million is about 64% of 35 million, so if you assume that the unique viewers increased at the same rate as stream views did, you end up around 700,000. Note that this is extremely unreliable though and just speculation on my part. I doubt your math is correct - in Cbus you could open 2 streams at once, but MLG changed it. During MLG Anaheim you had to switch between streams all the time and therefore its logic the streamnumbers are higher. Unique Viewers is a much more reliable stat.
That's not true though, I ran both streams without problem through the whole event.
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On August 05 2011 07:20 coddan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 06:53 zul wrote:On August 05 2011 06:34 coddan wrote:
Some very crude math suggests there may have been just around 700,000 unique viewers. I base this on that the stream views reported for Columbus were 22,5 million and the unique views we're 450,000. 22.5 million is about 64% of 35 million, so if you assume that the unique viewers increased at the same rate as stream views did, you end up around 700,000. Note that this is extremely unreliable though and just speculation on my part. I doubt your math is correct - in Cbus you could open 2 streams at once, but MLG changed it. During MLG Anaheim you had to switch between streams all the time and therefore its logic the streamnumbers are higher. Unique Viewers is a much more reliable stat. That's not true though, I ran both streams without problem through the whole event.
You probably didn't pay for premium? When you entered your premium code you got problems watching both streams at the same time and you had to do some nifty workarounds to get it working with two streams.
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oh so the stream randomly going black all the time so that u have to refresh it was to get more of these views. interesting
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Im sorry, but this stats are intentionally misleading. It's great to see MLG getting better event after event but this doesn't tell anything about the actual viewers the event had.
For example, in a website I may have 50,000 page views, and if I ever need to "show off some stats" I would really emphasize the fact that I had this 50,000 page views, when if you dig deeper you'll find that out of those I had only 15,000 visits, and out of those, I had 12,000 unique visitors... the same thing applies here.
If you have an unstable stream, which many times is necessary to refresh (I don't have adblock and still had this problem) your stream views will just explode, but how many absolute viewers were? I'd say that more than Columbus, but it just really sounds bigger if I say 35 million stream views, even if that doesn't really mean anything at all.
As I said at the beginning, this is in no way a rant to MLG or anything like that, in fact, I've loved more and more this events because they've improved a lot and keep doing it, but it would be better to see more informative stats, for instance, the peak of viewers at one match or something like that, or what match had the most viewers... those would be cool stats to hear.
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At Columbus, I was able to watch one stream and it didn't randomly become black, meaning I didn't have to f5 every 15 minutes.
At Anaheim, I probably initiated the stream 30 times more than Columbus, meaning that if everyone was in my position, there were less viewers for Anaheim than Columbus. Obviously, not everyone had the black screen problem so we never know. But it isn't beyond the realm of possibility that Columbus was more successful. We had tastosis, idra drama, MC drama, first time seeing the Koreans, it had more hype. The LR threads were longer, the stream didn't turn black.
The statistics mlg have released in no way show a 50% increase in views, and less views may even be possible.
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Sick statistics, MLG is definately NOT killing ESPORTS!
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On August 05 2011 03:59 Frogsox wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 03:46 hmunkey wrote:
How many people watched though? They said 35 million views at one point and said average view time was 3 hours, but there's no way 35m people watched for 3 hrs.
I wish organizations would release relevant numbers sometimes. :\ There weren't 35 million people watching. If you reread the article you'll notice that there were 35 million "views" of the event across the streams. That means that there were 35 million different "clicks" to view streams. That would include every time someone refreshed, reopened etc a stream. To put that into perspectice, I was watching both the Red and Blue almost all weekend and had to refresh/relog my computers now and then which would contribute a fair few views. Especially when you factor that I also flipped back and forth to the FPS streams when they were showing the same match on both Red and Blue at times. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if I contributed 50+ views easily over the course of the weekend. Furthermore, I watched almost every minute of both streams, so that's well, well over the 3 hour average per view. The numbers are actually relevant, I just think you misread or misinterpreted what was written in the article.
No that's my point. The numbers they released are completely meaningless. If they arrived at the figure that people watched at 3 hours average, they have to first be able to find out how many people did that.
Of course like every other organization they instead chose to give us bullshit data that is not relevant to anything.
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On August 05 2011 07:48 hmunkey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 03:59 Frogsox wrote:On August 05 2011 03:46 hmunkey wrote:
How many people watched though? They said 35 million views at one point and said average view time was 3 hours, but there's no way 35m people watched for 3 hrs.
I wish organizations would release relevant numbers sometimes. :\ There weren't 35 million people watching. If you reread the article you'll notice that there were 35 million "views" of the event across the streams. That means that there were 35 million different "clicks" to view streams. That would include every time someone refreshed, reopened etc a stream. To put that into perspectice, I was watching both the Red and Blue almost all weekend and had to refresh/relog my computers now and then which would contribute a fair few views. Especially when you factor that I also flipped back and forth to the FPS streams when they were showing the same match on both Red and Blue at times. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if I contributed 50+ views easily over the course of the weekend. Furthermore, I watched almost every minute of both streams, so that's well, well over the 3 hour average per view. The numbers are actually relevant, I just think you misread or misinterpreted what was written in the article. No that's my point. The numbers they released are completely meaningless. If they arrived at the figure that people watched at 3 hours average, they have to first be able to find out how many people did that. Of course like every other organization they instead chose to give us bullshit data that is not relevant to anything.
Hmmm is that really where the numbers come from? I was watching both streams 100% of the event and had to refresh both after every commercial at least, sometimes in the middle of games. I would not be surprised either if I "hit" the stream 200+ times alone. Either way I think the numbers are impressive even with that taken into account. Though it would be nice to have a unique viewer count for the event.
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I prefer unique IP viewers. Number of page loads (with 2 streams - blue and red) simply means the stream disconnected very often and people had to reload and reload (as I did). In addition, when the stream was lagging, it would buffer instead of renew, so in order not to lag too much behind the real time of the event, one would have had to regularly reload, even when the connection didn't drop yet.
That said, Anaheim was great and I'm certain it was one of the top SC2 events ever, just this particular cited statistic isn't necessarily a positive one. MLG fighting! ;-)
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Pls get the thread:
MLGSundance already said: well once we get the all in numbers from our distribution partners (IMG, Justin and others) we will release that as well.
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2.6 million hours of video viewed, there was about 30ish(?) hours of video (per stream), so at any given time during the stream there is 86,666.666~ viewers. I am sure the spikes are going to be way higher than that, and there was a fair amount of downtime and stream switching involved... but that might give a closer idea on the viewers at any second. Unique viewers are probably way over 1 million
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well done, good news even if the figures arent to clear
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Throughout the course of MLG, I probably loaded a stream 75 times or more.
10 or so were loading the stream throughout the day after long breaks, the other 65+ were from me refreshing the stream after every ad because it wouldn't load back up (and yes i turned off ad block). I'm eagerly awaiting the actual number of unique viewers.
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just want to know why they dont release individual game statistics. does halo/cod really do that bad in terms of viewership? lol
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it's good to see that there are alot of views, but i guess we have to take a step back to see how many unique views there are, and statistical views of number of people per game, (halo/cod/sc2). i personally had to refresh my stream almost every match as well.
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On August 05 2011 12:55 carebear91 wrote:
it's good to see that there are alot of views, but i guess we have to take a step back to see how many unique views there are, and statistical views of number of people per game, (halo/cod/sc2). i personally had to refresh my stream almost every match as well.
i honestly think sc2 had like 80-90k concurrent viewers while halo/cod had 10k combined. which is why mlg doesn't release those statistics. thats my assumption =)
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MLG gives a great tournament. Free VODs with English commentaries and even replays. So much better than GSL IMHO.
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On August 05 2011 13:12 bonedriven wrote:
MLG gives a great tournament. Free VODs with English commentaries and even replays. So much better than GSL IMHO.
VODs are free?
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On August 05 2011 07:05 Hellspawnl wrote:
I am first and for most an "E-sport journalist" who's actually doesn't just take what people, organizations or tournament organizers say for granted, I try to have an objective and critical approach as I know from my knowledge of the scene that it's needed.
OK, granted, but isn't every company out there doing these tricks with numbers? Is it new for you that ads have numbers like these? Heck, forget about the ads and companies, even in science, they try to "sell" their research with fancy numbers, don't they?
Crazy numbers, yes, but it would be appropriate to react differently. Like asking "hey guys, would you be also kind to post the number of unique views, as it is more important and telling in this case?"
Because in the position you are, your statements make you look like jealous and butt-hurt.
That said, would you please post the numbers for DreamHack, even if it is comparably laughable? Thanks.
PS You could post the total number of views or unique views for all I care
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On August 05 2011 07:13 DoomsVille wrote:
Not sure what you expect Hellspawn. MLG didn't lie about any numbers. They didn't intentionally mislead.
They reported a statistic that is most likely to entice sponsors. Usually that is the goal with this sort of press release.
They would be absolutely retarded to do otherwise. Maybe evo should follow suit. No one is stopping them.
I do not fully agree.
The part about "to entice the sponsors" is actually not totally correct.
When a potential sponsor looking for things to invest their money in the most important thing is not the amount of views. What you want to know is - how many people are watching, and that's unique viewers.
When you do plan to advertise the number of views are important because many ads are payed in CPM (Cost per Mille) - the views number here are really important.
I think it would be much better if MLG waited a couple of days with this Press Release and provided data for Unique Viewers.
Hey, I even think they would get more mainstream press if they waited and provided some more correct numbers - now some reporters will look at this and be sceptical.
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On August 05 2011 16:08 TheSilverfox wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 07:13 DoomsVille wrote:
Not sure what you expect Hellspawn. MLG didn't lie about any numbers. They didn't intentionally mislead.
They reported a statistic that is most likely to entice sponsors. Usually that is the goal with this sort of press release.
They would be absolutely retarded to do otherwise. Maybe evo should follow suit. No one is stopping them. I do not fully agree. The part about "to entice the sponsors" is actually not totally correct. When a potential sponsor looking for things to invest their money in the most important thing is not the amount of views. What you want to know is - how many people are watching, and that's unique viewers. When you do plan to advertise the number of views are important because many ads are payed in CPM (Cost per Mille) - the views number here are really important. I think it would be much better if MLG waited a couple of days with this Press Release and provided data for Unique Viewers. Hey, I even think they would get more mainstream press if they waited and provided some more correct numbers - now some reporters will look at this and be sceptical.
At the very least, we can assume 860k+ watched. With 2.6 million hours and 3+ hours on average, that gives around 866,667+ viewers. Even if EVERYBODY had 2 streams up at once and did one of these:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qRcwx.jpg)
We'd still have over 430k unique IPs (and therefor viewers) registered.
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Wow.. Esport's is really getting big. Isn't long ago 20 000 viewers was ALOT xD lol
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Wow, such great news! Not surprised really, but keep inviting your friends everyone, this should only get bigger.
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33 Posts
For the record - I don't have an issue with Hellspawn for his comments.
Not really worth a battle here nor on twitter. Fact is you have a window to grab mainstream press attention following an event and the easiest stat to produce on short turn around is streams (along with hours and average viewer time (which connect back to streams).
3.1 hours average length of viewer stay on stream
26 million hours.
35+ million streams
You can start to see the bigger picture.
However - this only accounts for our player. Not any of the distribution partners. Those numbers are still coming in and being made sense of.
Anyway - not worth the fight. Numbers are up. Partners are happy. New partners are coming in.
win win scenario in my book.
-sd
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On August 06 2011 07:28 SundanceMLG wrote:
For the record - I don't have an issue with Hellspawn for his comments.
Not really worth a battle here nor on twitter. Fact is you have a window to grab mainstream press attention following an event and the easiest stat to produce on short turn around is streams (along with hours and average viewer time (which connect back to streams).
3.1 hours average length of viewer stay on stream
26 million hours.
35+ million streams
You can start to see the bigger picture.
However - this only accounts for our player. Not any of the distribution partners. Those numbers are still coming in and being made sense of.
Anyway - not worth the fight. Numbers are up. Partners are happy. New partners are coming in.
win win scenario in my book.
-sd
And thats all that matters with these numbers.
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On August 06 2011 07:34 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2011 07:28 SundanceMLG wrote:
For the record - I don't have an issue with Hellspawn for his comments.
Not really worth a battle here nor on twitter. Fact is you have a window to grab mainstream press attention following an event and the easiest stat to produce on short turn around is streams (along with hours and average viewer time (which connect back to streams).
3.1 hours average length of viewer stay on stream
26 million hours.
35+ million streams
You can start to see the bigger picture.
However - this only accounts for our player. Not any of the distribution partners. Those numbers are still coming in and being made sense of.
Anyway - not worth the fight. Numbers are up. Partners are happy. New partners are coming in.
win win scenario in my book.
-sd And thats all that matters with these numbers.
And what's wrong with that?
Isn't that the whole purpose of doing this?
To brag about how successful the event was and to entice more sponsors?
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On August 06 2011 07:37 JiPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2011 07:34 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 06 2011 07:28 SundanceMLG wrote:
For the record - I don't have an issue with Hellspawn for his comments.
Not really worth a battle here nor on twitter. Fact is you have a window to grab mainstream press attention following an event and the easiest stat to produce on short turn around is streams (along with hours and average viewer time (which connect back to streams).
3.1 hours average length of viewer stay on stream
26 million hours.
35+ million streams
You can start to see the bigger picture.
However - this only accounts for our player. Not any of the distribution partners. Those numbers are still coming in and being made sense of.
Anyway - not worth the fight. Numbers are up. Partners are happy. New partners are coming in.
win win scenario in my book.
-sd And thats all that matters with these numbers. And what's wrong with that? Isn't that the whole purpose of doing this? To brag about how successful the event was and to entice more sponsors?
he never said anything was wrong with that.
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On August 06 2011 07:50 Eleaven wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2011 07:37 JiPrime wrote:On August 06 2011 07:34 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 06 2011 07:28 SundanceMLG wrote:
For the record - I don't have an issue with Hellspawn for his comments.
Not really worth a battle here nor on twitter. Fact is you have a window to grab mainstream press attention following an event and the easiest stat to produce on short turn around is streams (along with hours and average viewer time (which connect back to streams).
3.1 hours average length of viewer stay on stream
26 million hours.
35+ million streams
You can start to see the bigger picture.
However - this only accounts for our player. Not any of the distribution partners. Those numbers are still coming in and being made sense of.
Anyway - not worth the fight. Numbers are up. Partners are happy. New partners are coming in.
win win scenario in my book.
-sd And thats all that matters with these numbers. And what's wrong with that? Isn't that the whole purpose of doing this? To brag about how successful the event was and to entice more sponsors? he never said anything was wrong with that.
This!
Also either way great news for sc2 and E sports in general! I'd love to eventually hear the actually unique viewers numbers at some point in time if possible though! lots of speculation of 860k+ that would be amazing if its right(Which sounds about right according to the math!).
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Thank the Starcraft 2 Community for those numbers Sundance.
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That is a shitload of viewers O.O
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On August 06 2011 07:28 SundanceMLG wrote:
For the record - I don't have an issue with Hellspawn for his comments.
Not really worth a battle here nor on twitter. Fact is you have a window to grab mainstream press attention following an event and the easiest stat to produce on short turn around is streams (along with hours and average viewer time (which connect back to streams).
3.1 hours average length of viewer stay on stream
26 million hours.
35+ million streams
You can start to see the bigger picture.
However - this only accounts for our player. Not any of the distribution partners. Those numbers are still coming in and being made sense of.
Anyway - not worth the fight. Numbers are up. Partners are happy. New partners are coming in.
win win scenario in my book.
-sd
A lot of people assume that the high unique views number has something to do with the constant necessity to refresh the stream when an ad played (seemed to be only for free users - not premium members). Maybe it's also local to EU / Germany dont know (but all my 8 friends who watched it had the issue and it was mentioned multiple times in this thread).
I have no idea how your partnerships work (and how you aquire new partners) but I assume the numbers will be lower, when you fix the refresh issue, for the next MLG. Doesnt that mean your partners wouldnt be happy? You're basically telling a scenario which you (probably) cannot achieve the next time.
Or do you think you're able to grow enough to make up for those lost views when the issue has been fixed?
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When I watched the stream going dead all the time, I really thought about if MLG did this intentionally. I mean I watched so many ads this way, their partners must be pretty happy. But whatever it needs to grow Esports is fine with me as long as MLG does not abuse the real passion all those people have for their own agenda. That in fact could kill it all together. People are very sensitive to that.
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On August 06 2011 08:16 ReseT wrote:
Thank the Starcraft 2 Community for those numbers Sundance.
Do you expect him to grovel at our feet or something? That was kind of uncalled for.
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On August 05 2011 03:46 hmunkey wrote:
How many people watched though? They said 35 million views at one point and said average view time was 3 hours, but there's no way 35m people watched for 3 hrs.
I wish organizations would release relevant numbers sometimes. :\
well duh, they weren't implying that 35m people watched for 3 hours, it said THE AVERAGE.
and remember, some people watched probably 10 to 20 hours over the weekend.
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People are starting so much shit when MLG hasn't even released Unique Viewer count, how bout let them get that to us than you can try to tell us about how they are "lieing" about their views. NOWHERE did they claim they had 35 million unique viewers.
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someone should make a post to compare this with actual sports and stuff. i'd like to see some sort of a scale to understand how big esports is getting. perfect time for an infographic.
ie: superbowl > nba playoffs > random show > normal sports event > esports event > stream > etc
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The proof that these numbers are worth reporting is the fact that it got picked up by Forbes and republished.
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On August 05 2011 04:06 Numy wrote:So when is MLG's logo gonna include a mouse?
Haha so true. The way things are going I would absolutely not be surprised if MLG would be turned into a SC2-only event.
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HMMMMMMMMMM I WONDER IF THIS IS AT ALL CONNECTED TO STARCRAFT? :D
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Aw well I like MLG and Dreamhack. I think it's great that both are successful. I don't even see the two as being in competition, really. Seems like the more attention generated towards SC2 and "eSports" (gah, hate using the word) in general helps everybody involved. Hell, partners could potentially sponsor both events, right?
Anyway, that said, I'm kinda bummed to see that apparently there's an admin or some type of guy directly involved with Dreamhack that takes it upon himself to belittle MLG. Sort of unprofessional/childish IMO. Good to see that MLG responds to it professionally and doesn't stoop to the level of that guy. I expect to see both organizations grow!
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well if my math is correct 2.6 million hours with over 3 hours average watched per user means around 865K unique viewers which is way higher than 450K(last event). So yea, go MLG man esports getting real big fuck yea.
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MLG has been getting huge because Sundance made a decision to make a big investment in production and staff after Dallas. This is the result, he took a risk and will hopefully be reaping the rewards for a long time to come. Other tournaments like NASL should take notice.
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MLG has had problems with West Coast in the past. Great job MLG and West Coast residents making a great event.
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so will we ever get the numbers on the unique viewers and highest concurrent viewers?
I really want to know
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What were the pre-SC2 numbers? lol
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On August 06 2011 10:15 Sumwar wrote:
well if my math is correct 2.6 million hours with over 3 hours average watched per user means around 865K unique viewers which is way higher than 450K(last event). So yea, go MLG man esports getting real big fuck yea.
Those viewers aren't necessarily unique. For instance, I watched MLG in 2 hour segments for most of the weekend, for a total of somewhere in the range of 16 views from Friday-Sunday. So I'm one unique viewer, that accounts for at least 16 'views', and that doesn't account for all the times I switched streams, and had to re-load because of their request for me to drop my ad-block even though I have a gold pass :p
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On August 05 2011 03:55 Hellspawnl wrote:Using 35 million started streams is just a bullshit number to promote. Number of times a stream got loaded means nothing at all. 35 million streams started, 2,6 million of hours streamed means that EACH stream in average went on for 4,5 minutes, maybe not such a great number, I don't say it's bad either. What counts is Unique Viewers and average viewing time and Sundance responded to my tweet and said they will present that too when they got those numbers. Yes, I'm biased as I ran the SC2 Tours at DreamHack but compare this presentation with the DreamHacks
Why can't people like you just be happy?
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On August 05 2011 07:05 Hellspawnl wrote:Remember that most people just read the topic which actually is even more true when it comes to "suits" in big cooperation. So where would you put your money? In an 35 million event or in an "over 2 million" event? If you don't get that or don't understand the difference and the very bad communications method MLG uses then there ain't much I can do.
Does anyone know how many times EVO mentioned that viewers should tune into MLG?
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33 Posts
On August 05 2011 07:05 Hellspawnl wrote:
I don't like being involved in forum wars but I reply to the accusation of me being unprofessional, biased and wanting to start a war between MLG and DreamHack.
I am first and for most an "E-sport journalist" who's actually doesn't just take what people, organizations or tournament organizers say for granted, I try to have an objective and critical approach as I know from my knowledge of the scene that it's needed.
First off let me say that no other journalist asked for clarification by accusing me on twitter of releasing "bullshit numbers". I did a follow up interview with Forbes yesterday and was asked for a break down of the numbers so that the reporter could better understand the context. He was both objective and critical. You just seem to be critical when it comes to this topic. Still don't have an issue with you but if you have questions for me you should reach out formally and I'll answer them formally.
Our number currently stands at 940,583 uniques without factoring in one of our distribution partners. Hopefully we get their numbers today. This math stuff is hard sometimes when you don't have a unified set of reporting tools.
As far as the 35 million streams number goes - We release a set of numbers that is ready following the events to capitalize on mainstream media awareness of our efforts. No deception - no lies just a set of data that is provided by our streaming and distribution partners. The takeaway for MLG Anaheim is this - with a schedule which was awful for European viewers and our most stable stream yet - our numbers rose significantly.
This is a good thing. Let's be happy and hope that everyone's views keep going up and that everyone's partners, fans and players continue to be happy.
Also - prize pool can't go up until next year. That comes down from on high so unless a miracle happens it is what it is until 2012.
Finally live event attendance is attendees per day added up.
Have a nice day.
-sd
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Awesome numbers! I am happy for MLG and happy that they keep SC2 as part of the circuit!
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940,583 unique.......
ZOMG O.O
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Damn that's a huge amount of Unique views ^^
Wish the prize pools could be raised right now but better late then never :D
Good stuff SunnyD
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You continue to be one of my esports heroes Sundance, keep up the fucking amazing work my friend.
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good news sundance , almost one mil unique.. wow. Keep up the good work, cant wait for raleigh!
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On August 09 2011 21:37 busbarn wrote:good news sundance , almost one mil unique.. wow. Keep up the good work, cant wait for raleigh!
I think it's gonna pass 1 mill uniques once they add up the other distribution partner.
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On August 05 2011 05:13 K_Dilkington wrote:
Impressive. I find the 20 000 visitor number a bit dodgy though, from what I've seen it looked more like 8000-10 000 but I could be wrong.
Hey dudes! I looked at the crowd and thought "Dayum that looks like 8-10 thousand people!", I was probably right so I'm going to attack the credibility of a decent eSports loving corporation!
nice trollin'
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On August 09 2011 21:24 SundanceMLG wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 07:05 Hellspawnl wrote:
I don't like being involved in forum wars but I reply to the accusation of me being unprofessional, biased and wanting to start a war between MLG and DreamHack.
I am first and for most an "E-sport journalist" who's actually doesn't just take what people, organizations or tournament organizers say for granted, I try to have an objective and critical approach as I know from my knowledge of the scene that it's needed.
First off let me say that no other journalist asked for clarification by accusing me on twitter of releasing "bullshit numbers". I did a follow up interview with Forbes yesterday and was asked for a break down of the numbers so that the reporter could better understand the context. He was both objective and critical. You just seem to be critical when it comes to this topic. Still don't have an issue with you but if you have questions for me you should reach out formally and I'll answer them formally. Our number currently stands at 940,583 uniques without factoring in one of our distribution partners. Hopefully we get their numbers today. This math stuff is hard sometimes when you don't have a unified set of reporting tools. As far as the 35 million streams number goes - We release a set of numbers that is ready following the events to capitalize on mainstream media awareness of our efforts. No deception - no lies just a set of data that is provided by our streaming and distribution partners. The takeaway for MLG Anaheim is this - with a schedule which was awful for European viewers and our most stable stream yet - our numbers rose significantly. This is a good thing. Let's be happy and hope that everyone's views keep going up and that everyone's partners, fans and players continue to be happy. Also - prize pool can't go up until next year. That comes down from on high so unless a miracle happens it is what it is until 2012. Finally live event attendance is attendees per day added up. Have a nice day. -sd
Sundance, I appreciate you being so active and reachable in the community. I know you take a lot of flak from some members of the community because for some reason they see you as the big evil corporate guy just out for everyone's money. I know you care about eSports and the industry and in my eyes you are truly a pioneer of the industry.
Keep up the good work man.
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Sundance is a bosssss. Keep it up with everything you do at MLG!
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
Wow, almost a million uniques! That's epic, can't wait for nationals.
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Go sundance. I'm just glad the MLG stream wasn't the debacle the NASL one was. It's nice that you have decent audio people and actually stick to a schedule (when boxer doesn't ruin it :D )
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I wonder who this other distribution partner is, GSL perhaps?
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I love MLG, thanks for the great work! And nice, almost 1 million unique viewers
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On August 09 2011 22:05 SLTR.Maverick wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 21:24 SundanceMLG wrote:On August 05 2011 07:05 Hellspawnl wrote:
I don't like being involved in forum wars but I reply to the accusation of me being unprofessional, biased and wanting to start a war between MLG and DreamHack.
I am first and for most an "E-sport journalist" who's actually doesn't just take what people, organizations or tournament organizers say for granted, I try to have an objective and critical approach as I know from my knowledge of the scene that it's needed.
First off let me say that no other journalist asked for clarification by accusing me on twitter of releasing "bullshit numbers". I did a follow up interview with Forbes yesterday and was asked for a break down of the numbers so that the reporter could better understand the context. He was both objective and critical. You just seem to be critical when it comes to this topic. Still don't have an issue with you but if you have questions for me you should reach out formally and I'll answer them formally. Our number currently stands at 940,583 uniques without factoring in one of our distribution partners. Hopefully we get their numbers today. This math stuff is hard sometimes when you don't have a unified set of reporting tools. As far as the 35 million streams number goes - We release a set of numbers that is ready following the events to capitalize on mainstream media awareness of our efforts. No deception - no lies just a set of data that is provided by our streaming and distribution partners. The takeaway for MLG Anaheim is this - with a schedule which was awful for European viewers and our most stable stream yet - our numbers rose significantly. This is a good thing. Let's be happy and hope that everyone's views keep going up and that everyone's partners, fans and players continue to be happy. Also - prize pool can't go up until next year. That comes down from on high so unless a miracle happens it is what it is until 2012. Finally live event attendance is attendees per day added up. Have a nice day. -sd Sundance, I appreciate you being so active and reachable in the community. I know you take a lot of flak from some members of the community because for some reason they see you as the big evil corporate guy just out for everyone's money. I know you care about eSports and the industry and in my eyes you are truly a pioneer of the industry. Keep up the good work man.
Indeed. Time for some people to lay off the guy and take a look at what he's accomplished.
He's been busting his ass for us, we've seen BOXER play in the US, and we've had improvements on all our viewing experiences (live and online). But now that we're into the post-MLG season, people want to start ragging on him again for being a "suit". Whatever man, just keep on doing what you do.
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On August 05 2011 03:57 Bear4188 wrote:
2.6 million hours and 3 hours of stream / user would suggest just under 900000 unique users, which seems a reasonable number to me.
Good to see MLG getting healthy viewership.
Hellspawn, we don't need a pissing contest between a 3 game league and a massive LAN with like 5x as many games going on.
no thats wrong
they dont know the duration of 1 USER being on the stream but how long a stream was open after it got opended on some computer... so if you consider that some people would watch more than 1 stream at a time + tune in like 4 times during the weekend that would mean to me that there were a total of about 200k-300k unique viewers (which would still be quite good)
edit: what i wrote was probalby bullshit reading sundances post right now lol ^^
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On August 09 2011 21:24 SundanceMLG wrote:
Also - prize pool can't go up until next year. That comes down from on high so unless a miracle happens it is what it is until 2012.
Not sure what he means by "that comes down from on high" , but this saddens me, was really hoping for a bigger pool to justify the enormity of MLG viewerships
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<3 Sundance. Congratulations on the huge success! Hopefully, people like Hellspawn can stop being such biased douchebags and realize that growth in MLG is growth in E-Sports overall, which is a wonderful thing.. Instead of starting pissing contests between Dreamhack and MLG constantly. It's fantastic that both events (and others) are having big success and providing such entertainment for the community.
Keep doing what you're doing MLG, thanks for the entertainment!!
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On August 10 2011 00:17 alphaQ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 21:24 SundanceMLG wrote:
Also - prize pool can't go up until next year. That comes down from on high so unless a miracle happens it is what it is until 2012.
Not sure what he means by "that comes down from on high" , but this saddens me, was really hoping for a bigger pool to justify the enormity of MLG viewerships
Basically the budget was set preseason, The national championship prize pool is 10x bigger...
all the great vierwship and attendence is showing is that they can double or more the prizepool for the players, and get even more of the top players to come - and maybe even get more views/attendence due to the stars that show up.
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Something is wrong with the number of hours they reported - I'd be curious to know the real number (only 17k for 1 million uniques is absurdly low).
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On August 09 2011 22:05 SLTR.Maverick wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 21:24 SundanceMLG wrote:On August 05 2011 07:05 Hellspawnl wrote:
I don't like being involved in forum wars but I reply to the accusation of me being unprofessional, biased and wanting to start a war between MLG and DreamHack.
I am first and for most an "E-sport journalist" who's actually doesn't just take what people, organizations or tournament organizers say for granted, I try to have an objective and critical approach as I know from my knowledge of the scene that it's needed.
First off let me say that no other journalist asked for clarification by accusing me on twitter of releasing "bullshit numbers". I did a follow up interview with Forbes yesterday and was asked for a break down of the numbers so that the reporter could better understand the context. He was both objective and critical. You just seem to be critical when it comes to this topic. Still don't have an issue with you but if you have questions for me you should reach out formally and I'll answer them formally. Our number currently stands at 940,583 uniques without factoring in one of our distribution partners. Hopefully we get their numbers today. This math stuff is hard sometimes when you don't have a unified set of reporting tools. As far as the 35 million streams number goes - We release a set of numbers that is ready following the events to capitalize on mainstream media awareness of our efforts. No deception - no lies just a set of data that is provided by our streaming and distribution partners. The takeaway for MLG Anaheim is this - with a schedule which was awful for European viewers and our most stable stream yet - our numbers rose significantly. This is a good thing. Let's be happy and hope that everyone's views keep going up and that everyone's partners, fans and players continue to be happy. Also - prize pool can't go up until next year. That comes down from on high so unless a miracle happens it is what it is until 2012. Finally live event attendance is attendees per day added up. Have a nice day. -sd Sundance, I appreciate you being so active and reachable in the community. I know you take a lot of flak from some members of the community because for some reason they see you as the big evil corporate guy just out for everyone's money. I know you care about eSports and the industry and in my eyes you are truly a pioneer of the industry. Keep up the good work man.
Dont know about the evil corporate guy thing, never seen that in a thread but otherwise I agree totally. Those numbers are great and will be even larger when the other partner is accounted for. Good times indeed.
And what's up with hellspawn, the fuck kind of attitude is that. Then claiming to be a journalist and not acting the least professional. laugh.
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On August 10 2011 00:33 Ryalnos wrote:
Something is wrong with the number of hours they reported - I'd be curious to know the real number (only 17k for 1 million uniques is absurdly low).
Could have been the LoL launcher counting people starting the game as a unique viewer. Start the game, see the stream and ignore it while logging in. Not sure if that was the case but it would make sense on the low number of viewer hours.
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Calgary25979 Posts
Sundance is my favourite ESPORTS guy. He always just comes in, drops some knowledge, and then stays out of the bullshit. It's awesome. Many people could take a lesson
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All of the drama in this thread could have been avoided if we had all read the bolded part below and just nodded and moved on.
On August 05 2011 03:55 Hellspawnl wrote:Yes, I'm biased as I ran the SC2 Tours at DreamHack but compare this presentation with the DreamHacks
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Of course it was the largest event, because it wasn't in the middle of nowhere, I mean you put events in the midwest, vs California. I mean California has such a larger population than the places that they normally hold the events. Grand Finals in Rhode Island lol?
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Calgary25979 Posts
On August 10 2011 00:42 Aberu wrote:
Of course it was the largest event, because it wasn't in the middle of nowhere, I mean you put events in the midwest, vs California. I mean California has such a larger population than the places that they normally hold the events. Grand Finals in Rhode Island lol?
You know costs in major cities are higher too? I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if the events in the midwest make them more money.
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it was 20k throughout the event. i knew lots of people that only dropped by for hours or for 1 day. in fact i think that was probably the majority of spectators who did that and didn't stay the entire weekend. knowing that, seeing 8-10k people there at all time would make some sense turning out to be 20k spectators.
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cool number, but their prize pool is shit as fucked.i dont get their lame excuses, MLG have more sponsors,ads,live audience and have VoDs memberships than dreamhack but DH still manage to make prize pool bigger.and their lame excuse for not releasing the replay so everyone will buy VoDs
and they change it back because they figure it out we are not stupid. stop being greedy and pay the players whats their worth.
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On August 10 2011 00:48 vertical101 wrote:
cool number, but their prize pool is shit as fucked.i dont get their lame excuses, MLG have more sponsors,ads,live audience and have VoDs memberships than dreamhack but DH still manage to make prize pool bigger.and their lame excuse for not releasing the replay so everyone will buy VoDs
and they change it back because they figure it out we are not stupid. stop being greedy and pay the players whats their worth.
Learn to read. Sundance said it's "come down from on high" that they can't change the prize pools this year. That spells Blizzard.
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I don't exactly know what you are comparing now? Are you comparing these numbers?
DreamHack: "Total Viewing Time (hours): 17,324 hours" with 1.49M unique viewers vs this:
MLG "more than 2.6 million hours of video consumed" with 940K unique viewers.
I have no idea about the 17,324 hours number stand for. It's probably different statistics because it's way off and thus these two numbers can't be compared to each other.
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Shouldn't stream views be an indicator of failure rather than success ? I mean, if 800,000 people refresh the stream 40 times each, the stream has to be kinda fucked up right ?
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On August 10 2011 00:55 TheSilverfox wrote:I don't exactly know what you are comparing now? Are you comparing these numbers? DreamHack: "Total Viewing Time (hours): 17,324 hours" with 1.49M unique viewers vs this: MLG "more than 2.6 million hours of video consumed" with 940K unique viewers. I have no idea about the 17,324 hours number stand for. It's probably different statistics because it's way off and thus these two numbers can't be compared to each other.
Sundance said 26M hours, not 2.6M.
On August 06 2011 07:28 SundanceMLG wrote:
...
3.1 hours average length of viewer stay on stream
26 million hours.
35+ million streams
...
-sd
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imo peak viewers is what matters most
wheres that number?
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On August 10 2011 01:58 SovSov wrote:
imo peak viewers is what matters most
wheres that number?
I believe at one point during the weekend, it was mentioned that there was near 100,000 concurrent viewers. I cannot recall if this was all 3 streams, or what. Sorry 
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On August 10 2011 02:32 kentarre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2011 01:58 SovSov wrote:
imo peak viewers is what matters most
wheres that number? I believe at one point during the weekend, it was mentioned that there was near 100,000 concurrent viewers. I cannot recall if this was all 3 streams, or what. Sorry
That was on Saturday. Sunday should have had the largest peak concurrents and that info hasn't been released yet. Apparently it was 117,000 peak at Columbus.
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On August 10 2011 00:44 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2011 00:42 Aberu wrote:
Of course it was the largest event, because it wasn't in the middle of nowhere, I mean you put events in the midwest, vs California. I mean California has such a larger population than the places that they normally hold the events. Grand Finals in Rhode Island lol? You know costs in major cities are higher too? I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if the events in the midwest make them more money.
Given the amount of investment money going into MLG, it would be disappointing if they took such a short term view of the situation.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
It's the BoxeR effect. What else can I say? ALL HAIL THE EMPEROR!
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On August 05 2011 04:11 NorNor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 03:54 ch33psh33p wrote:On August 05 2011 03:54 ensign_lee wrote:
I wonder how many extra views each one of us added by having to hit refresh to deal with either
A) frozen streams
B) wanting to switch the other stream to high quality (really wish they would let us have both in HQ) This. ^ I literally had to refresh after EVERY match, because once the ad played, the stream went black. By the time i refreshed, they were midway into the second game. I think I accounted for 500k of those views. I found that after every match it went dead and sometimes I even missed the next game! This from a dedicated EUROPEAN viewer. I know it might not be much to you guys but I was so excited I abandoned my girlfriend to watch from 2 in the morning onwards on the first day. Sooo my issues are bad times for Europeans and then black screening to boot. I must say I was a tad let down in those areas. Also It was poorly announced when each stream would be live and how long they would be before returning I think this could be addressed. The great things I found were the short announcements to the side of the stream. I really enjoyed seeing all those hundreds of results and reading them through! That and the fact that they supplied a free stream as well. I am not one to take things like that for granted, so I like to think. This is meant only as constructive criticism I am a huge SC2 tourney fan and i think MLG is really promoting esports in a great way. edit: Terrible grammar did you have adblock turned on? because it did that for me when I had adblock but as soon as I turned it off I was fine.
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Braavos36374 Posts
On August 10 2011 00:42 Aberu wrote:
Of course it was the largest event, because it wasn't in the middle of nowhere, I mean you put events in the midwest, vs California. I mean California has such a larger population than the places that they normally hold the events. Grand Finals in Rhode Island lol?
Let's make a bet on whether Anaheim or Rhode Island have more live attendees yayaya?
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Thanks for your hard work, Sundance!
So... how is that 100000 paid memberships milestone going?
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Sundance wins some ESPORTS points yet again. It's always nice to have people talk openly and answer as many community questions as possible.
Anyway, can we stop the ridiculous MLG vs DreamHack comparisons? If anything, they have different games, different number of streams and so on, so there is no way to compare them unless they release the data for their SC2 streams separately.
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On August 10 2011 01:57 NightAngel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2011 00:55 TheSilverfox wrote:I don't exactly know what you are comparing now? Are you comparing these numbers? DreamHack: "Total Viewing Time (hours): 17,324 hours" with 1.49M unique viewers vs this: MLG "more than 2.6 million hours of video consumed" with 940K unique viewers. I have no idea about the 17,324 hours number stand for. It's probably different statistics because it's way off and thus these two numbers can't be compared to each other. Sundance said 26M hours, not 2.6M. Show nested quote +On August 06 2011 07:28 SundanceMLG wrote:
...
3.1 hours average length of viewer stay on stream
26 million hours.
35+ million streams
...
-sd
Ah, thank you! Then it's even more weird with the DH numbers. I'll check to see what happened here because right now it's impossible to compare these stats.
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United States994 Posts
Prizes.
I posted in another thread on this subject. We are well aware of the short comings of our current structure, prizes, etc.
For next year, look for more direct avenues into our seeding system, more immediate opportunities to crack pool play, more online activity, less forgiveness of poor showings (e.g. no tenure for players that do not do well), GLOBAL feeder systems, better prizes....I could go on and on, and I'm very excited to announce details when we're ready, but the bottom line is: We are addressing, and hopefully fixing, many of the complaints/suggestions that we read from the community in an effort to truly represent the SC2 community.
We learned some lessons, as we have every year in nearly 10 years of doing these events, and we're excited to apply to them to all of our titles for next year, especially sC2
PS. I have worked for Sunny and MLG for going on a decade...basically my first job after graduating college. I know someone needs to take the brunt of criticism, but he really does want the best for this community.
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I find releasing those misleading numbers (yes they are misleading, there's no way to deny that) disgusting and I understand that the majority here is from America and I understand the need to defend MLG since it's "your" event, though without Hellspawn we wouldn't have known MLG just had 940.000~ unique but I doubt they'll put that on a press release.
At least I'm thankful for Hellspawn for giving corruption in the eSport scene some light.
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On August 10 2011 05:41 Pr0spect wrote:
I find releasing those misleading numbers (yes they are misleading, there's no way to deny that) disgusting and I understand that the majority here is from America and I understand the need to defend MLG since it's "your" event, though without Hellspawn we wouldn't have known MLG just had 940.000~ unique but I doubt they'll put that on a press release.
At least I'm thankful for Hellspawn for giving corruption in the eSport scene some light.
Stop being such a melodramatic moron.
You realise that means nearly a million people tuned in to watch an eSports event, right? Especially one that was on at a disastrously inconvenient time for Europe. I stayed up till 8am three nights in a row to watch MLG Anaheim, the idea that you'd denigrate 939,999 other people doing the same is laughable.
As far as 'exposing' corruption goes...that's just being disingenuous. You're implying they 'duked the stats', right? And the source we have for this wonderful exposé is...oh? A central figure in a rival (alas not friendly it seems) tournament? You mean, someone who would have something to gain from disparaging MLG and their viewer count?
Interesting.
The thing is I don't recall Sundance being dishonest in the slightest here. He didn't state there were millions of unique views. He simply presented the data in the raw form. We've been aware of this for a while now, from MLG to other tournaments. People need to calm the hell down.
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On August 10 2011 05:41 Pr0spect wrote:
I find releasing those misleading numbers (yes they are misleading, there's no way to deny that) disgusting and I understand that the majority here is from America and I understand the need to defend MLG since it's "your" event, though without Hellspawn we wouldn't have known MLG just had 940.000~ unique but I doubt they'll put that on a press release.
At least I'm thankful for Hellspawn for giving corruption in the eSport scene some light.
My Scandinavian brother, what are you smoking?
I believe the Columbus numbers where released without Hellspawns involvement, so i fail to see how it was Hellspawn getting the Anaheim numbers released, as they'd be released anyways.
Besides it's more than 940000 uniques, they don't have all the numbers in yet, so the 940000 is a misleading number.
Corruption? What the fuck...
Stop making this some stupid US vs EU thing, it's stupid and it is hurting ESPORTS.
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On August 10 2011 05:41 Pr0spect wrote:
I find releasing those misleading numbers (yes they are misleading, there's no way to deny that) disgusting and I understand that the majority here is from America and I understand the need to defend MLG since it's "your" event, though without Hellspawn we wouldn't have known MLG just had 940.000~ unique but I doubt they'll put that on a press release.
At least I'm thankful for Hellspawn for giving corruption in the eSport scene some light.
Hmm Pr0spect Sweden. I'm sure it's a coincidence that Dreamhack was in Sweden too. No bias at all.
Stop this nationalistic BS, Dreamhack and MLG aren't competitors. Both are amazing events with amazing fans. No need to try to tear one down to make the other one look better.
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On August 10 2011 06:09 thebigdonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2011 05:41 Pr0spect wrote:
I find releasing those misleading numbers (yes they are misleading, there's no way to deny that) disgusting and I understand that the majority here is from America and I understand the need to defend MLG since it's "your" event, though without Hellspawn we wouldn't have known MLG just had 940.000~ unique but I doubt they'll put that on a press release.
At least I'm thankful for Hellspawn for giving corruption in the eSport scene some light. Hmm Pr0spect Sweden. I'm sure it's a coincidence that Dreamhack was in Sweden too. No bias at all. Stop this nationalistic BS, Dreamhack and MLG aren't competitors. Both are amazing events with amazing fans. No need to try to tear one down to make the other one look better.
Not so much nationalism as it is Jante Law
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On August 10 2011 05:41 Pr0spect wrote:
I find releasing those misleading numbers (yes they are misleading, there's no way to deny that) disgusting and I understand that the majority here is from America and I understand the need to defend MLG since it's "your" event, though without Hellspawn we wouldn't have known MLG just had 940.000~ unique but I doubt they'll put that on a press release.
At least I'm thankful for Hellspawn for giving corruption in the eSport scene some light. ]
This is some of the dumbest fucking shit I have read all day. Conspiracy and corruption... What the fuck is it with this Us vs Them mentality in eSports? It's fucking stupid. Stop it!
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On August 10 2011 05:41 Pr0spect wrote:
I find releasing those misleading numbers (yes they are misleading, there's no way to deny that) disgusting and I understand that the majority here is from America and I understand the need to defend MLG since it's "your" event, though without Hellspawn we wouldn't have known MLG just had 940.000~ unique but I doubt they'll put that on a press release.
At least I'm thankful for Hellspawn for giving corruption in the eSport scene some light.
Hellspawn doesn't know what he is talking about and neither do you. What MLG did is the standard when it comes to advertising in every medium including things like billboards. I have worked in media research for every medium you can imagine and what MLG did with the 35 million stat is what NBC would do, what Forbes would do and what TNT would do.
Sometimes you have to blow up one stat to attract the advertiser or client. Instead of ignoring the one sheet or mailer they will actually pay attention and want to know more. Advertising can be misleading but that is the nature of the business. Next time read the footnote when you see "3 out of 4 doctors recommend Colgate".
It is actually sad you guys had to come in and rain on this parade like bitter people. It is disgusting to watch. And I really hope Hellzspawn is not representing Dreamhack.
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I just found amazing that people like sundance, who runs an enterpirse with unimaginable numbers for the normal people takes his time to respond to criticism in a mannered way, and when it comes to bullshit, he keeps his cool and unleash the numbers with explanations.
Don't remember anyone doing this. Altough im from EU, Sundance is doing not only a great job, but his approach with the people, talking about themes that his not obligated in any way to share its incredible.
Dont understand why this bullshit discussion after almost any MLG event. Me, as european, im soooooo glad and happy when it comes to the weekend, after a tiring week and to see the world's greatest players on MLG, Dreamhack, TL SL, IPL and other tourneys that i dont remember but i enjoy like a teenager.
People making stupid inquiries about who has the bigger dick needs to be cast aside. Not helping anyone and leave a shitty feeling to normal people who only wants to see the best of the best on important events.
Sorry for my poor english, hope my opinion was understandable.Regards
And I really hope Hellzspawn is not representing Dreamhack.
I hope that too.
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Nice to see almost 1M unique viewers. But why the hell do u want to release the number the stream has started? Makes no sense.
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People should not get mad about the numbers, its just good business yes, its the uniques that actually matter. But if you want news on your event you get the biggest number you have out there. it would be silly to do different. The numbers are not misleading at all, as we all know what a view compared to a unique is. so how can it be misleading. the thing about numbers are they are fact(or you just being lied to ) there not misleading at all. its a great number of people watching , go mlg :D
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Seriously what's the problem with stream started number if it's released with other numbers as well? Even in OP it was stated how many viewing hours were there.
ofc unique visitors is most relevant information but we also got that info so where's the problem if they are not hiding anything?
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On August 11 2011 05:42 eqez wrote:
Nice to see almost 1M unique viewers. But why the hell do u want to release the number the stream has started? Makes no sense.
Because that number was primarily targeted advertisers, that at the end of the day, doesn't care about uniques.
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Just to remind everyone - the number of uniques wasn't immediately available after the event. Because MLG partners with a distribution company (IMG), they don't know exactly what their viewership is for all the distribution partners right away.
Also, bottom line, nearly a million viewers is INSANE! This is a really positive thing no matter how you look at it.
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Does anyone know how many was the most amount of viewers at a single time?
I know we got 87k on MC vs Idra round 2 in columbus, but does anyone know if we surpassed 100k at any time yet?
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thanks for the update Sundance! I didn't imagine anaheim would have that many unique viewers.
@popcorn they mention they surpassed 100k on Saturday already. Should be bigger on Sunday
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EPT
