|
I was just wondering why everytime i watch a stream of an sc2 match with chat how come it seems that every caster is apparently a dic with no game knowledge and every player who loses is total shit.
it just annoys me to see good players who've put so much time into the game, are great fun to watch and learn from just being torn to shreds by viewers who probably don't have a clue just because that player lost a couple of games recently. For instance one player will play a great game making only one mistake and it'll be "OMG Rofl. X is so awful for making Y mistake." do these people making these comments always play a perfect game with no mistakes, why are they not in ipl or already beating koreans then?
that doesn't even include caster bashing. I don't understand the people who constantly hate on certain casters, maybe im just not experienced enough to realise casters may not know much, i dont know. but from what I gathered these casters earned their places by putting hard work and effort for little or no financial game into commentating replays or streams and helping educate and entertain fellow players. it seems wrong to me to just hate on people who only do what they do for the fans of sc2 and the community.
im kind of new to the starcraft scene and just wondered whether stream chats were actually representative of the majority of the community or whether it's only idiots who bother to chat whilst watching matches as I hope is the case.
as i first started watching brood war and it was refreshing after coming from console fps where top players are treated with disdain for 'having no life', that all the brood war players seem to be treated with the most utmost respect. Which is why it's confusing and sad to see all the stupid hateful comments when watching sc2, to see many people who just seem to enjoy hating everybody involved in the game. This is not meant to be a troll thread or to start any hatred because i am hoping that people will explain those i am describing are in the minority of the sc2 community.
maybe the solution is to just always hide chat and hide the few idiots. :/
edit:my bad. turns out in some scenarios of high level matches even the winning player is sometimes awful and "should just die"
|
There are these posters man. You think they would be good and all since they are pros but they go and make fuzzy statements or putting comas after and's and stuff.
I never make those mistakes posting on 4chan, I could be better than them if I posted 8 hours a day.
|
Generally speaking, from my understanding, it is the vocal minority as iNcontrol puts it. While most of the viewers simply watch the stream full screened, at least anyone that i have actually talked to when watching a tournament does that, it makes it quite hard to talk in chat, meaning that those who are don't care about the game as much as being noticed.
On the other hand, you do not have to be able to play a perfect game to be able to know where a pro is making mistakes (just cause I get supply blocked doesn't mean I can't say x player should not have gotten supply blocked.) That being said though, I think that those who are pointing out players faults are not doing so in what anyone would call a respectful manner nor a helpful one.
The same logic, at least for me, applies to those who caster bash as well. Long story short though, if you care about the games, and want to listen to the people commentating them, just full screen it or hide the chat, and enjoy, and always remember, haters gonna hate.
|
Stream chats and Youtube comments are Internet sewers. If you happen to be there don't be surprised it stinks
|
No one is ever supposed to lose a single game of starcraft in their lives
|
TBH the vast majority of those people are regulars of Steven Bonnells stream. I watched steven turn off his stream 2 days ago, then I saw mass kids talking shit on BlackCitadel.
|
On August 03 2011 10:08 how wrote:
Generally speaking, from my understanding, it is the vocal minority as iNcontrol puts it. While most of the viewers simply watch the stream full screened, at least anyone that i have actually talked to when watching a tournament does that, it makes it quite hard to talk in chat, meaning that those who are don't care about the game as much as being noticed.
On the other hand, you do not have to be able to play a perfect game to be able to know where a pro is making mistakes (just cause I get supply blocked doesn't mean I can't say x player should not have gotten supply blocked.) That being said though, I think that those who are pointing out players faults are not doing so in what anyone would call a respectful manner nor a helpful one.
The same logic, at least for me, applies to those who caster bash as well. Long story short though, if you care about the games, and want to listen to the people commentating them, just full screen it or hide the chat, and enjoy, and always remember, haters gonna hate.
yeah. again not trying to start any game flaming but i enjoy reading the chat for brood war matches if I'm ever watching one....plus i like to play poker in the bottom left corner alot. also yes it's not just pointing out errors made by pro's, it's the tone with which they're pointed out.
|
o gawd are you really complaining about stream chat?
I hope you realize the generic person in stream chat is a malicious heartless wanna be troll. Seriously stream chats are often the scum of the earth.
Don't take anything you read in stream chats to be the 'voice of the community' or anything. In reality it's like 2 fat obnoxious people spamming about the streamers skill etc.
|
On August 03 2011 10:11 JediGamer wrote:
TBH the vast majority of those people are regulars of Steven Bonnells stream. I watched steven turn off his stream 2 days ago, then I saw mass kids talking shit on BlackCitadel.
ugh thats really sad....i kinda of agree, but the thing that pisses me off is when someone loses a bo3 people just assume he lsot cuz hes much worse than him....well waht if the games were nail bitingly close? numbers wont show that...
|
I've noticed it too, and I wish streams had stricter moderation. If they just start permabanning the trolls eventually the stream chats will be less of the Wild West that they are now.
|
Where on earth did you get the name ThePianoDentist
|
Calgary25990 Posts
This aura of negativity is frustrating and it's something new to the Starcraft community. It's made me not want to cast, stream, post, basically... do anything.
|
When I began to read your post, I didn't think I would agree, but when I thought about it while watching IPL, I realized how much people actually are douchebags towards players. There were many comments in the EGMachine vs RGNSpades match that made me facepalm, along the line of "Wow BOTH these players are so bad," when I doubt literally any of them could beat either player.
I just think some don't have the place to talk. Constructive criticism is fine, but outright calling pro players bad is just nonsensical.
I don't know if I was being trolled, but they seemed pretty serious.
Examples:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vfyGH.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/t5GCw.jpg)
|
On August 03 2011 10:09 Alexj wrote:
Stream chats and Youtube comments are Internet sewers. If you happen to be there don't be surprised it stinks
Well put my friend, I have also noticed the certain troll like attitude of most(or many) stream chatters.
This doesn't apply to smaller streams or sheth's though 
There is a certain negative atmosphere which is usual for anything mainstream and as esports is gradually getting there.
If TL never stops TL there's not really a problem since casters can just do as husky and ask for his feedback in a thread on TL and the problem is thus solved.(in my world )
|
According to Tastless's "forum nerds", anyone who doesn't actually win a tourney played horribly.
Got 3rd place when you got 1st last time? Must be losing his edge.
Got 7th place when 10 korean were at a tourney? Lol foreigners so bad.
|
The complainers will always have the largest voice to an audience listening, but in most cases they are a very small minority. Those that are enjoying the games are much more interested in the games themselves rather then what the opinions of the trolls in stream chats and hence don't even bother participating in the discussion or even open the chat to begin with.
|
If you watch pros play and realize that they are pros and your spending your time watching their games because you know they are playing at the highest level then the opinions of the chat are irrelevant.
The most vocal people are generally the ones with rude things to say and for the most part they are ignored. Its hard to ban a whole chats worth of people (even if they deserve it).
|
Never show chat, ever.
People in chat are the same people you'll find on youtube comments. They're a herd of retarded sheep led by a pack of trolls.
|
I remember watching Rainbows stream, whenever someone would exit the game without a gg the chat would erupt 'no gg no skill' and devolve from there. I just hope that most of these viewers are just having some fun and don't seriously mean what they say, with stuff like "wow this streamer/opponent is garbage/terrible and should go back to other game/bronze" etc
|
On August 03 2011 10:11 JediGamer wrote:
TBH the vast majority of those people are regulars of Steven Bonnells stream. I watched steven turn off his stream 2 days ago, then I saw mass kids talking shit on BlackCitadel.
LOL
clearly the vast majority of negative people are destiny watchers. damn destiny and his contagious negativity.
|
I always find the chat on live streams insanely terrible. >_< It's just filled with trolls who think they understand the game a lot and try to let everybody know that they do.
My opinion on casters is that they're REALLY fun to watch and honestly I probably wouldn't have played Starcraft without finding casters. + Show Spoiler + And wouldn't have continued to play SC2 without again finding Team Liquid at the beginning of this 2011 year. GO TL
This combined with the "idiocy" of the internet could be the hate on casters that you're talking about. (Some pro player talks about how casters are stupid when it comes to SC, and bronze-folk follow.)
Also from what I've noticed the small time I've basically been lurking here, is that the quality of people has just degraded. :/
|
On August 03 2011 10:15 Probe1 wrote:
Where on earth did you get the name ThePianoDentist
from a late 90's (?) satirical british comedy called Brass Eye written by Chris Morris. it's a reference to that, he just uses the phrase when talking absolute bollocks to a (real) drug dealer "I don't want to wake up feeling like a bloody piano dentist". i just found it amusing and it's my favourite comedy so i thought id give a nod to that. also my xbox gamertag, and nowadays i get called 'piano' more often than i do johnny (thats when you know you're gaming a bit too much 
|
Welcome to the internet.
Seriously though, this isn't any different from every other gaming community. I'm not sure why you would find Starcraft2 to be an exception. Best thing to do is ignore the trolls and not give them the attention they desperately want.
|
Yeah those are annoying, but you forgot the big one. THOSE F KERS WHO COMPLAIN ABOUT BALANCE
Stupid nerds thinking just because their in diamond they know enough about the game to begin talking shit.
|
Most of the casters I dislike have a negative casting style and like to highlight player mistakes.
|
On August 03 2011 10:17 PopcornColonel wrote:When I began to read your post, I didn't think I would agree, but when I thought about it while watching IPL, I realized how much people actually are douchebags towards players. There were many comments in the EGMachine vs RGNSpades match that made me facepalm, along the line of "Wow BOTH these players are so bad," when I doubt literally any of them could beat either player. I just think some don't have the place to talk. Constructive criticism is fine, but outright calling pro players bad is just nonsensical. I don't know if I was being trolled, but they seemed pretty serious. Examples:
yeah i wasnt sure whether to make this thread until the spades machine match where it just went to the next level.
the zerg player had like 7? bases and apparently had shocking macro because he let his gas go over 1000 with 6/7 bases. this was one of the most respectful comments.
the other day at mlg boxer had 10k minerals in a match, omg, boxer is the worst player ever!
|
On August 03 2011 10:35 ThePianoDentist wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 10:17 PopcornColonel wrote:When I began to read your post, I didn't think I would agree, but when I thought about it while watching IPL, I realized how much people actually are douchebags towards players. There were many comments in the EGMachine vs RGNSpades match that made me facepalm, along the line of "Wow BOTH these players are so bad," when I doubt literally any of them could beat either player. I just think some don't have the place to talk. Constructive criticism is fine, but outright calling pro players bad is just nonsensical. I don't know if I was being trolled, but they seemed pretty serious. Examples: yeah i wasnt sure whether to make this thread until the spades machine match where it just went to the next level. the zerg player had like 7? bases and apparently had shocking macro because he let his gas go over 1000 with 6/7 bases. this was one of the most respectful comments. the other day at mlg boxer had 10k minerals in a match, omg, boxer is the worst player ever!
well boxer has proven that he is a top player and he can make 1000 mistakes and will still always be a great player and almost nobody has the right to say otherwise. As for the machine/spades match, machine played poorly for his usual self and spades is a hacker so nobody cares about him.
|
I do agree this much negativity is ridiculous. For example, on the public opinion about teams 80% or something like that said that teams like Zenex and NShoseoo are terrible. How on earth can you argue that they are terrible teams?! It seems that much of the community is eager to make definite statements without any sort of rational argument to preceding it, and most of the time is just to shit on someone.
|
On August 03 2011 10:25 ARcherTuRtle wrote:I always find the chat on live streams insanely terrible. >_< It's just filled with trolls who think they understand the game a lot and try to let everybody know that they do. My opinion on casters is that they're REALLY fun to watch and honestly I probably wouldn't have played Starcraft without finding casters. + Show Spoiler + And wouldn't have continued to play SC2 without again finding Team Liquid at the beginning of this 2011 year. GO TL but after I started to understand Starcraft and play it at a kind of better level, you start to realize that most casters that you might watch aren't even diamond level, so you almost feel inferior watching them, basically. High analysis-based casters would just become more fun to listen to. People like Day[9], Artosis(/Tasteless) or high level players when they cast like IdrA in the IPL and Painuser. This combined with the "idiocy" of the internet could be the hate on casters that you're talking about. (Some pro player talks about how casters are stupid when it comes to SC, and bronze-folk follow.) Also from what I've noticed the small time I've basically been lurking here, is that the quality of people has just degraded. :/
TBH some casters are just as bad. There's some master players who really are NOT that great at all. Lumping up a queen early/mid game into your attack force and accidently sending it halfway across a creep-less map? Being Force Fielded by the last remaining forces of a protoss army and instead of retreating roaches who cant get range to ball up some more with superior remaxing macro, choosing to let those roaches sit there and hit 1 of the last 5 stalkers standing as the single colossus helps wipe out said roaches? Banning me from their chat because I offered the suggestion that in such a situation a quick ling swarm could flank the units and kill the colossus in all likelyhood, and at least do a lot of damage to stalker while roaches have the heat taken off them until force fields pass?
And then the response to a single piece of advice is "LOL gtfo plat you dont know what you're talking about".
Its like that other thread talking about the validity of some people being in master when people of lower divisions are clearly better/more knowledgeable. I will agree that the comments get out of hand, but lets not kid ourselves when it comes to many casters that are simple "meh" or "average" in play ability, so in comparison with what we know they should do, them failing to do those things multiple times over the course of a single game can definitely sway informed opinion. The rest are in fact just trolls.
Just yesterday I had a "master" division player call me bad and knowing nothing, and laugh for saying baneling/roach/corruptor is a good counter to zealot/stalker/colossus... He had 6 colossus, and with all the zealots insta-dead from the banelings, the roaches proceed to hug the stalkers and massacre them. maxed army vs maxed army. 12 roaches and 8 corruptors survive. no colossi survive. But he was intent on saying he's master so he's better and that is a fail unit comp to laugh at...
On August 03 2011 11:16 Paramo wrote:
I do agree this much negativity is ridiculous. For example, on the public opinion about teams 80% or something like that said that teams like Zenex and NShoseoo are terrible. How on earth can you argue that they are terrible teams?! It seems that much of the community is eager to make definite statements without any sort of rational argument to preceding it, and most of the time is just to shit on someone.
See: Germany, WW2.
|
On August 03 2011 10:17 Chill wrote:
This aura of negativity is frustrating and it's something new to the Starcraft community. It's made me not want to cast, stream, post, basically... do anything.
You must persevere Chill! We need you to tell everyone to.............chill out?
|
I was just wondering why everytime i watch a stream of an sc2 match with chat how come it seems that every caster is apparently a dic with no game knowledge and every player who loses is total shit.
We've all been to the chats before...
The internet is like this man, not much to say about it, 'cept for maybe come to SlayerSDragon's stream. Total badass.
|
On August 03 2011 10:17 Chill wrote:
This aura of negativity is frustrating and it's something new to the Starcraft community. It's made me not want to cast, stream, post, basically... do anything.
I have a feeling that a lot people feel exactly like you. Better stay distant from the community and not interact with it than having to deal with the constant crap that comes out of peoples mouth.
|
People that post on live stream chats are often complete idiots. I'm not sure who they are or where they came from, but it's definitely better to avoid the chat.
|
My opinion in which there is so much negativity going on in the SC2 community is most likely because of the easier to use UI and better AI
in BW it was pretty damn hard to get good at that, and I guess people realized that and stopped talking shit
but in SC2 they expect players to be better because its 'easier'
just my 2 cents anyways
|
On August 03 2011 11:21 Rotodyne wrote:
People that post on live stream chats are often complete idiots. I'm not sure who they are or where they came from, but it's definitely better to avoid the chat.
there is usually one complete idiot among them, I;'d say at a 1:10 ratio to "normies". So its usuaklly better than not. If a chat is FULL of them, the mods are not banning them, so its a place for them to gather and troll each other. Well, sometimes someone has to sacrifice their chat channel so the others can live in peace.
however I have, often too, seen people who use a self righteous attitude when saying someone's "trolling" even if their comments are legitimate and factually backed. TeamLiquid channel SC2 in game chat has been getting a number of these. There's a difference between real trolls and people with actual differences of opinion based on rational thought. A lot of people will try to debase anyone's opinion with calling them a "troll", and In my eyes that makes them just another bad idiot troll. There IS a thought and rationality thread around these forums somewhere, I believe its called Critical Thinking.
|
Chat in live streams is terrrrrrrrrrrible. Viewers tend to point out all the faults in gameplay. It is obviously much easier to analyze everything from a spectator's point of view and suggest correct play than flawlessly execute one's strategy. I don't think players really care about the majority of trolling comments in their streams since most of them are exactly that, trolls.
Most caster bashing is due to lack of game knowledge. I know that most of the upcoming casters (who aren't pro players or previously pro) are doing their best to improve their game sense and knowledge of strategies, however, sometimes I feel like I know more than casters do from just watching GSL vods. I know it is very difficult to talk for entire game lengths at a time, but there are areas for improvement for many casters.
|
They are retarded trolls who should be ignored...just roll with it
|
Welcome to why immediately hiding the chat is the first thing I do upon opening a stream page.
|
Partially why I often can't stand being in a chat of a somewhat popular streamer. So much spam, so many people talking over each other, gives me a blistering headache (T_T;) Because of this it's also generally impossible to speak to anyone, let alone have a conversation. Unless, as I said, it's a less popular streamer and theres fewer people talking over each other. But more on topic, yeah, theres idiots everywhere that act like you can't be good and lose at the same time.
Kind of like Wolf in todays video by Artosis, Wolf lost about 90% of all his games, however that doesn't mean wolf is bad or he didn't learn anything. In fact you learn more from losing. Very obviously, because you didn't win, you didn't play perfectly, so what'd you do wrong? Anyway, that was pretty off topic too ('>,<')
Yeah, it all goes back to internet anonymity, especially when it's a chat room on a stream. Your post is gonna be gone in a few seconds, forever forgotten. So basically you can get away with a lot of shit.
Comment section in YT are very very bad too, I don't often refer to much as complete thrash, but really that's the best way of describing YT comment sections (#_#)
|
As long as I just stay on TL, everything will be fine.
|
On August 03 2011 11:35 Whole wrote:
As long as I just stay on TL, everything will be fine.
The LR threads are doing it too.
Especially when an American plays, the EU people jump all over it.
|
Seriously, don't watch chat during shoutcasts unless you like trolling and being trolled.
Real-time youtube comments, pretty much.
|
100% agree with OP. The bad mouthing is so cheap, so annoying.
Basically, it's an instance of the internet dickwad theory, as shown in this here pic:
![[image loading]](http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/215499488_8pSZr-L-2.jpg)
|
Good players sometimes play terribly in important matches, for a recent example watch
+ Show Spoiler +
in the IPL team league. Just because someone's masters or grandmasters doesn't mean they don't make bronze/silver level mistakes sometimes, especially when the pressure is on.
|
Before I would never understand why some lower league players would call pros suck and comments like "learn to play" or "is he even pro", but after watching some games tonight made me kinda agree with them (doesnt always apply obviously).
Also, if casters are reading this, unless you are Artosis or Day9 (read game knowledge), please dont say while you commentate "omg huge mistake" or "he should do this instead of that or he did this wrong etc" (trying to find mistakes of the player whole game) just commentate the game itself and let people decide who is bad and who isnt, even tho some casters might not realise it but if you are well known caster and say that X player played terrible you should consider that some people will think that for him for..long time until proven otherwise which can be hard sometimes because one BO3 series doesnt say anything about that player.
Example of this is Artosis (dont get me wrong I love him as a person and love his casts) - he says for some player "this guy is sick good" and 6 hours after everyone in spamming TL "wow that guy so good" just because he said it. This can be applied even easier in negative effect.
Another thing that casters should pay attention to, player X attacks player Y and player Y got no army (teching) and caster is like "WHY ISNT HE ATTACKING!!! HE GOT NO UNITS!! OMG!! i cant belive he isnt attacking!", you have to realise game is a lot easier when you have map hack on and see everything thats going on
But every caster just like players are learning every day about game and improving their casts, hopefully this will help some to improve even faster
|
why so negative...
just watch the games and don't comment
|
its funny because I mod one of the streams and I noticed people being completely idiotic/rude similar to examples in this thread in the chat. Then when they are banned / timeouted they complain about it in the stream thread. Except they complain about us being immature while using their new found grade 12 level try-hard-polite-grown-up-writing.
It makes me question how many people who post on teamliquid are immature but hiding it everywhere but on stream chats. I think it has to be said that a lot of people on this site hide how they actually are just so they aren't banned.
I could only imagine how much better the community was during BW days :\
|
If your letting some random chat without a mod get you down or angry you really should not be in the chat in the first place.
If the mods are not doing there job tell the broadcaster and tell them to get new mods. Chats fun to talk shit on and say whatever and even more fun when people make threads about how annoying it is. Best is "omg they are from 4chan scum of earth". Who takes that shit seriously?
tldr: tell the broadcaster to get new mods or close the chat. White-ras chat is moderated well from what I remember
|
Sometimes the negative responses are warranted. It's the delivery that is all-important though. There's a big difference between "lol this guy fucking sucks how is he a pro" and "he's making a lot of mistakes this game and is controlling his units pretty poorly."
I don't see a problem with the latter.
|
Stream chats are to the stream-watching community, what youtube comments are to youtube videos, or what forums are to a game.
They are a very small minority of the playerbase, very vocal and very annoying, for the most part they know little to nothing about the game, and are just idiots.
|
Watching Machine vs Spades right now was so incredibly cringe worthy I can't help but notice how justifiable this "negativity" towards pro gamers is. As a Mid Masters Zerg (by no means am I good in any way), even I felt that I could have handled multiple situations much better than Machine did. I mean seriously, losing 8 mutas to marines because he wasn't paying attention to them? Someone who does this constantly does not deserve to be called a pro gamer, and this is exactly what Machine did as he continued to make these huge blunders throughout the game. It's not just Machine, I've even seen Rainbow just leave 30 marines by themselves on a watch tower so he can donate them to an entire Zerg army for no reason.
In the end, this negativity has good points and the only good way to stop is by actually getting better. How often do you see people talking shit about blunders MC or Nestea did? I'd really like someone to point that out for me.
|
I haven't had much experience with most people's stream chats but people in mine seem to be great (maybe because I moderate the crap out of it lol )
From what I've seen though some stream viewers will find something to complain about no matter what -_-;;
|
On August 03 2011 11:52 Joey Wheeler wrote:
Watching Machine vs Spades right now was so incredibly cringe worthy I can't help but notice how justifiable this "negativity" towards pro gamers is. As a Mid Masters Zerg (by no means am I good in any way), even I felt that I could have handled multiple situations much better than Machine did. I mean seriously, losing 8 mutas to marines because he wasn't paying attention to them? Someone who does this constantly does not deserve to be called a pro gamer, and this is exactly what Machine did as he continued to make these huge blunders throughout the game. It's not just Machine, I've even seen Rainbow just leave 30 marines by themselves on a watch tower so he can donate them to an entire Zerg army for no reason.
In the end, this negativity has good points and the only good way to stop is by actually getting better. How often do you see people talking shit about blunders MC or Nestea did? I'd really like someone to point that out for me.
Quite often if you read the LR threads.
Especially when nestea dies to something like a bunker rush.
|
with the gsl casters the difference between tastosis and moletrap, wolf, and that other guy is just gigantic in entertainment value. and the reason why i hate on those other guys is because i would rather listen to tastosis any day.
|
On August 03 2011 11:55 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:52 Joey Wheeler wrote:
Watching Machine vs Spades right now was so incredibly cringe worthy I can't help but notice how justifiable this "negativity" towards pro gamers is. As a Mid Masters Zerg (by no means am I good in any way), even I felt that I could have handled multiple situations much better than Machine did. I mean seriously, losing 8 mutas to marines because he wasn't paying attention to them? Someone who does this constantly does not deserve to be called a pro gamer, and this is exactly what Machine did as he continued to make these huge blunders throughout the game. It's not just Machine, I've even seen Rainbow just leave 30 marines by themselves on a watch tower so he can donate them to an entire Zerg army for no reason.
In the end, this negativity has good points and the only good way to stop is by actually getting better. How often do you see people talking shit about blunders MC or Nestea did? I'd really like someone to point that out for me. Quite often if you read the LR threads. Especially when nestea dies to something like a bunker rush.
I can guarantee the ratio of someone calling Nestea shit compared to someone calling him a bonjwa is over 1 : 10000
|
On August 03 2011 11:59 Joey Wheeler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:55 SafeAsCheese wrote:On August 03 2011 11:52 Joey Wheeler wrote:
Watching Machine vs Spades right now was so incredibly cringe worthy I can't help but notice how justifiable this "negativity" towards pro gamers is. As a Mid Masters Zerg (by no means am I good in any way), even I felt that I could have handled multiple situations much better than Machine did. I mean seriously, losing 8 mutas to marines because he wasn't paying attention to them? Someone who does this constantly does not deserve to be called a pro gamer, and this is exactly what Machine did as he continued to make these huge blunders throughout the game. It's not just Machine, I've even seen Rainbow just leave 30 marines by themselves on a watch tower so he can donate them to an entire Zerg army for no reason.
In the end, this negativity has good points and the only good way to stop is by actually getting better. How often do you see people talking shit about blunders MC or Nestea did? I'd really like someone to point that out for me. Quite often if you read the LR threads. Especially when nestea dies to something like a bunker rush. I can guarantee the ratio of someone calling Nestea shit compared to someone calling him a bonjwa is over 1 : 10000
Until he loses a game, and people crawl our of their cracks.
that's the point this thread is making
It doesn't matter who a player is, if they have one bad game they suddenly are shit now, it's annoying
|
On August 03 2011 11:52 Joey Wheeler wrote:
Watching Machine vs Spades right now was so incredibly cringe worthy I can't help but notice how justifiable this "negativity" towards pro gamers is. As a Mid Masters Zerg (by no means am I good in any way), even I felt that I could have handled multiple situations much better than Machine did. I mean seriously, losing 8 mutas to marines because he wasn't paying attention to them? Someone who does this constantly does not deserve to be called a pro gamer, and this is exactly what Machine did as he continued to make these huge blunders throughout the game. It's not just Machine, I've even seen Rainbow just leave 30 marines by themselves on a watch tower so he can donate them to an entire Zerg army for no reason.
In the end, this negativity has good points and the only good way to stop is by actually getting better. How often do you see people talking shit about blunders MC or Nestea did? I'd really like someone to point that out for me.
Well. In all fairness, let's take something into consideration:
You and he are both on the ladder. Yet, you're not playing with those guys (which is my assumption). And we know that they're on top of the ladder. So as an overall rule his play must be better than yours.
Maybe the idea of losing 8 mutas to marines is a blunder and is cost inneffective in itself, but maybe a mistake you make which makes you incapable of making that mistake is paying too much attention to your mutalisks and not enough attention to other things like macro. So in 90% of the situations he's put in he has awesome macro and doesn't lose his mutalisks, but you never lose your mutalisks (which I doubt in itself) and you don't have excellent macro most of the time.
My bet is, even making those mistakes, players like EGmachine and Spades would still beat you.
BUT regardless I think a better question is why do people get so much enjoyment out of pointing out other people's mistakes? I frequent a website called 9gag.com. It's an imageboard for funny pictures. It used to be a lot better but now most of the "funny pictures" are pictures of people saying stupid things on yahoo answers and someone saying something "smart" in response. Or they're posts of how christians are stupid or how some group of people is stupid... I guess it's just something people enjoy doing, talking about other's mistakes. I think overall though, these people come out to be people who don't accomplish much in general. I think a certain amount of humbleness really helps in making yourself better than you were before.
|
On August 03 2011 10:43 Msr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 10:35 ThePianoDentist wrote:On August 03 2011 10:17 PopcornColonel wrote:When I began to read your post, I didn't think I would agree, but when I thought about it while watching IPL, I realized how much people actually are douchebags towards players. There were many comments in the EGMachine vs RGNSpades match that made me facepalm, along the line of "Wow BOTH these players are so bad," when I doubt literally any of them could beat either player. I just think some don't have the place to talk. Constructive criticism is fine, but outright calling pro players bad is just nonsensical. I don't know if I was being trolled, but they seemed pretty serious. Examples: yeah i wasnt sure whether to make this thread until the spades machine match where it just went to the next level. the zerg player had like 7? bases and apparently had shocking macro because he let his gas go over 1000 with 6/7 bases. this was one of the most respectful comments. the other day at mlg boxer had 10k minerals in a match, omg, boxer is the worst player ever! well boxer has proven that he is a top player and he can make 1000 mistakes and will still always be a great player and almost nobody has the right to say otherwise. As for the machine/spades match, machine played poorly for his usual self and spades is a hacker so nobody cares about him.
I understand that Machine was playing poorly, but I don't find this grounds to outright call him a terrible player.
Also, I don't know what you're referring to when you say spades is a hacker. Do you have a source for this information?
|
On August 03 2011 12:00 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:59 Joey Wheeler wrote:On August 03 2011 11:55 SafeAsCheese wrote:On August 03 2011 11:52 Joey Wheeler wrote:
Watching Machine vs Spades right now was so incredibly cringe worthy I can't help but notice how justifiable this "negativity" towards pro gamers is. As a Mid Masters Zerg (by no means am I good in any way), even I felt that I could have handled multiple situations much better than Machine did. I mean seriously, losing 8 mutas to marines because he wasn't paying attention to them? Someone who does this constantly does not deserve to be called a pro gamer, and this is exactly what Machine did as he continued to make these huge blunders throughout the game. It's not just Machine, I've even seen Rainbow just leave 30 marines by themselves on a watch tower so he can donate them to an entire Zerg army for no reason.
In the end, this negativity has good points and the only good way to stop is by actually getting better. How often do you see people talking shit about blunders MC or Nestea did? I'd really like someone to point that out for me. Quite often if you read the LR threads. Especially when nestea dies to something like a bunker rush. I can guarantee the ratio of someone calling Nestea shit compared to someone calling him a bonjwa is over 1 : 10000 Until he loses a game, and people crawl our of their cracks. that's the point this thread is making It doesn't matter who a player is, if they have one bad game they suddenly are shit now, it's annoying
It feels like you're making this completely up. From my experience I've never seen any major negativity towards Nestea losing to a cheese, quite the opposite in fact.
|
Can find this type of behavior in any of Destiny or Desrow's stream chat. I don't think they're 100% to blame but I do see somewhat of a trend. Bottomline, be more respectful and mannered. To avoid all of this, simply don't join the chat.
As far as commentator's go..not sure why people complain nonstop and feel they need to announce their hate to the world. Don't like the commentator? Mute it!
|
Well most gamers tend to be reactive - A happens -> B follows immediately. Similarly, often are proclaimed kings and bonjwas after one game, one match, or one tournament. Obviously it takes much longer periods to conclude anything about a player or a caster, as performance is generally volatile.
|
United States533 Posts
Just remember there is a reason they are the one's watching the caster and not casting their own play.
|
On August 03 2011 12:01 TERRANLOL wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:52 Joey Wheeler wrote:
Watching Machine vs Spades right now was so incredibly cringe worthy I can't help but notice how justifiable this "negativity" towards pro gamers is. As a Mid Masters Zerg (by no means am I good in any way), even I felt that I could have handled multiple situations much better than Machine did. I mean seriously, losing 8 mutas to marines because he wasn't paying attention to them? Someone who does this constantly does not deserve to be called a pro gamer, and this is exactly what Machine did as he continued to make these huge blunders throughout the game. It's not just Machine, I've even seen Rainbow just leave 30 marines by themselves on a watch tower so he can donate them to an entire Zerg army for no reason.
In the end, this negativity has good points and the only good way to stop is by actually getting better. How often do you see people talking shit about blunders MC or Nestea did? I'd really like someone to point that out for me. Well. In all fairness, let's take something into consideration: You and he are both on the ladder. Yet, you're not playing with those guys (which is my assumption). And we know that they're on top of the ladder. So as an overall rule his play must be better than yours. Maybe the idea of losing 8 mutas to marines is a blunder and is cost inneffective in itself, but maybe a mistake you make which makes you incapable of making that mistake is paying too much attention to your mutalisks and not enough attention to other things like macro. So in 90% of the situations he's put in he has awesome macro and doesn't lose his mutalisks, but you never lose your mutalisks (which I doubt in itself) and you don't have excellent macro most of the time. My bet is, even making those mistakes, players like EGmachine and Spades would still beat you. BUT regardless I think a better question is why do people get so much enjoyment out of pointing out other people's mistakes? I frequent a website called 9gag.com. It's an imageboard for funny pictures. It used to be a lot better but now most of the "funny pictures" are pictures of people saying stupid things on yahoo answers and someone saying something "smart" in response. Or they're posts of how christians are stupid or how some group of people is stupid... I guess it's just something people enjoy doing, talking about other's mistakes. I think overall though, these people come out to be people who don't accomplish much in general. I think a certain amount of humbleness really helps in making yourself better than you were before.
Imagine if someone goes to a restaurant, orders a dish, and is disgusted by it. He comments on how it's terrible, and upon hearing this individual criticizing the steak someone replies with "He can probably still cook better than you". This comment is not appropriate because of a clear reason: The guy who ordered the steak isn't a chef.
That situation is exactly the same as comparing me to Machine. Personally, I never played Brood War for a decade, I never was part of a pro gaming team, and I don't play Starcraft several hours a day to compete in tourneys (although I highly doubt Machine does this).
What I can do however, is compare Machine's level of skill to someone superior. That's when I notice the major flaws in his play and how his "amazing macro" isn't really that amazing, let alone his control.
|
Unfortunately many people think that this is an acceptable way to act. For some reason people become ass holes while on the internet. I think that most of these people would not act this way in person. I suppose the anonymity gives them a sense of freedom to do/say what ever they want, without thinking and have no consequences.
I have never really understood why some people think it is ok to act a like this on line yet not in person.
|
Imagine if TL's forums weren't moderated. These comments happen in all forms available. Stream chat is just another troll tool with which to troll.
|
im sorry to say this but this is just how the internet is you just gotta learn to live with it
|
In a community as big as this, you can say things and get away with them without your reputation suffering because nobody knows who you are among the sea of other people just like you. You're just another one of "the haters".
It's this semi-anonymity that motivates people to be complete douchebags. And it's not something that can be fixed.
It's kind of like how 4 guys walking down the street might be talking really positively and having a good time, but if you had 100 guys walking down the street, there would be pushing, shoving, and generally more people acting like idiots than usual.
|
Like anything on the internet you need mods.
That said, it's just super easy to type what you're thinking on a chat. You see a player lose his stuff and it's automatically "oh god this guy sucks" and you write that. That and the fact that SCII has so many people coming into the scene that there's bound to be a lot of bad eggs hidden among the masses of viewers.
|
Have you ever watched a sports game at a bar? During every game, there's always a couple of players who make a mistake at some point. Immediately following which everyone has their pitchforks out & is yelling about how stupid & godawful that player is. I've seen my sister, who can't hit a tennis ball to save her life, yell at the TV every time Federer makes an unforced error.
Fact of the matter is, even though most of us may suck compared to the GM streamers, we're still able to recognize mistakes when they do happen (or at least we think we know). We expect perfection from our sports pros, and starcraft streamers are no different. Is this behavior silly? Maybe. Do I wish people could be more civil? Definitely. But this is the current state of professional sports. Welcome to the big leagues.
|
TLADT24920 Posts
Best thing to do is ignore chat. I usually put it off or go full screen and only type in it after a game to gg or something
|
I find that, in the slower streams, ignoring a few trolls can make for a really good stream chat that is actually worth paying attention to.
|
On August 03 2011 12:19 ReturnStroke wrote:
Imagine if TL's forums weren't moderated. These comments happen in all forms available. Stream chat is just another troll tool with which to troll.
But I'm actually starting to feel like the people from the stream chat are coming here to argue.
o_o
Like boys dressed in a politician's suit. They're passively immature, but they feel like it's okay because they're in the Chamber of Team Liquid pretending to talk civilized at each other.
o_o'
|
Many, if not all, sports have this issue. It's just something that comes with unfortunately. And you'll of course have your lovely bunch of internet trolls as well
|
Ugh. I'm starting to hate this liberal use of the word troll.
Is it just me because acting like a fucktard isn't trolling, there are some geniune people out there who are actually just immature and stupid. If it was just 5-10 trolls at a time we wouldn't be caring at all.
|
On August 03 2011 12:17 Joey Wheeler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 12:01 TERRANLOL wrote:On August 03 2011 11:52 Joey Wheeler wrote:
Watching Machine vs Spades right now was so incredibly cringe worthy I can't help but notice how justifiable this "negativity" towards pro gamers is. As a Mid Masters Zerg (by no means am I good in any way), even I felt that I could have handled multiple situations much better than Machine did. I mean seriously, losing 8 mutas to marines because he wasn't paying attention to them? Someone who does this constantly does not deserve to be called a pro gamer, and this is exactly what Machine did as he continued to make these huge blunders throughout the game. It's not just Machine, I've even seen Rainbow just leave 30 marines by themselves on a watch tower so he can donate them to an entire Zerg army for no reason.
In the end, this negativity has good points and the only good way to stop is by actually getting better. How often do you see people talking shit about blunders MC or Nestea did? I'd really like someone to point that out for me. Well. In all fairness, let's take something into consideration: You and he are both on the ladder. Yet, you're not playing with those guys (which is my assumption). And we know that they're on top of the ladder. So as an overall rule his play must be better than yours. Maybe the idea of losing 8 mutas to marines is a blunder and is cost inneffective in itself, but maybe a mistake you make which makes you incapable of making that mistake is paying too much attention to your mutalisks and not enough attention to other things like macro. So in 90% of the situations he's put in he has awesome macro and doesn't lose his mutalisks, but you never lose your mutalisks (which I doubt in itself) and you don't have excellent macro most of the time. My bet is, even making those mistakes, players like EGmachine and Spades would still beat you. BUT regardless I think a better question is why do people get so much enjoyment out of pointing out other people's mistakes? I frequent a website called 9gag.com. It's an imageboard for funny pictures. It used to be a lot better but now most of the "funny pictures" are pictures of people saying stupid things on yahoo answers and someone saying something "smart" in response. Or they're posts of how christians are stupid or how some group of people is stupid... I guess it's just something people enjoy doing, talking about other's mistakes. I think overall though, these people come out to be people who don't accomplish much in general. I think a certain amount of humbleness really helps in making yourself better than you were before. Imagine if someone goes to a restaurant, orders a dish, and is disgusted by it. He comments on how it's terrible, and upon hearing this individual criticizing the steak someone replies with "He can probably still cook better than you". This comment is not appropriate because of a clear reason: The guy who ordered the steak isn't a chef. That situation is exactly the same as comparing me to Machine. Personally, I never played Brood War for a decade, I never was part of a pro gaming team, and I don't play Starcraft several hours a day to compete in tourneys (although I highly doubt Machine does this). What I can do however, is compare Machine's level of skill to someone superior. That's when I notice the major flaws in his play and how his "amazing macro" isn't really that amazing, let alone his control.
This would be a fair argument if you hadn't already compared yourself to machine
I was replying to what you were saying and saying why I believe it's still appropriate to call machine a progamer.
In the situation described, it would be as if you had said "I feel like I could have cooked some of these vegetables better than the chef could"
I guess my overall point though, was that I don't really care how not amazing Machine is. There are better players out there I'm very well aware of that. I don't even care to watch Machine or Spades. But I think it's a complete waste of time to sit there and talk about why Machine isn't as good as them unless it's for your own self improvement. But most of the time it's not.
|
I don't even open the chat windows anymore. No point in tainting my viewing experience.
|
It's an internet thing. Anonymity + Platform to speak = Hyperbolic responses.
Having sampled MLG Anaheim established that people can still have opinions without being an ass. I have a theory that, people don't actively think about how ridiculous they're acting on the internet or purposefully engage offensive mode to try and circumvent the linear nature of chat conversation.
Not being in punching range of another person also contributes greatly to the legitimacy of the ass build.
|
Idk i think negativity comes with the territory. Every sport theres people who bash the other team, it comes with team games, people take a side and then bash the other side, to some how think people who are passionate about a comptetion arent going to bicker back and forth is kind of rediculous(that goes for casting too hell tsn bash on casters of replays they use).
What i find more irritating, "when people say oh you arent as good as x player so you cant commentate on it or disagree with their opinion lets see you try it!"
|
On August 03 2011 11:52 Joey Wheeler wrote:
What I can do however, is compare Machine's level of skill to someone superior. That's when I notice the major flaws in his play and how his "amazing macro" isn't really that amazing, let alone his control.
Sure, comparing players is ok. Saying something like "Nestea decision making is better than Machine decision making" is completely fine. But the thing is that you don't need to use extreme negativity such as "he's a terrible player, he's the worst player ever, he will never win anything .." etc.
Sad thing is that the more popular Starcraft gets, the more of that stuff we'll see : /.
|
I think the medium (stream chat) just isn't conducive for any real discussion because of how fast it scrolls, so the only people talking are people not interested in discussion. It's more for reactions/shouting/loud noises just because of the sheer amount of text scrolling.
|
On August 03 2011 12:33 TERRANLOL wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 12:17 Joey Wheeler wrote:On August 03 2011 12:01 TERRANLOL wrote:On August 03 2011 11:52 Joey Wheeler wrote:
Watching Machine vs Spades right now was so incredibly cringe worthy I can't help but notice how justifiable this "negativity" towards pro gamers is. As a Mid Masters Zerg (by no means am I good in any way), even I felt that I could have handled multiple situations much better than Machine did. I mean seriously, losing 8 mutas to marines because he wasn't paying attention to them? Someone who does this constantly does not deserve to be called a pro gamer, and this is exactly what Machine did as he continued to make these huge blunders throughout the game. It's not just Machine, I've even seen Rainbow just leave 30 marines by themselves on a watch tower so he can donate them to an entire Zerg army for no reason.
In the end, this negativity has good points and the only good way to stop is by actually getting better. How often do you see people talking shit about blunders MC or Nestea did? I'd really like someone to point that out for me. Well. In all fairness, let's take something into consideration: You and he are both on the ladder. Yet, you're not playing with those guys (which is my assumption). And we know that they're on top of the ladder. So as an overall rule his play must be better than yours. Maybe the idea of losing 8 mutas to marines is a blunder and is cost inneffective in itself, but maybe a mistake you make which makes you incapable of making that mistake is paying too much attention to your mutalisks and not enough attention to other things like macro. So in 90% of the situations he's put in he has awesome macro and doesn't lose his mutalisks, but you never lose your mutalisks (which I doubt in itself) and you don't have excellent macro most of the time. My bet is, even making those mistakes, players like EGmachine and Spades would still beat you. BUT regardless I think a better question is why do people get so much enjoyment out of pointing out other people's mistakes? I frequent a website called 9gag.com. It's an imageboard for funny pictures. It used to be a lot better but now most of the "funny pictures" are pictures of people saying stupid things on yahoo answers and someone saying something "smart" in response. Or they're posts of how christians are stupid or how some group of people is stupid... I guess it's just something people enjoy doing, talking about other's mistakes. I think overall though, these people come out to be people who don't accomplish much in general. I think a certain amount of humbleness really helps in making yourself better than you were before. Imagine if someone goes to a restaurant, orders a dish, and is disgusted by it. He comments on how it's terrible, and upon hearing this individual criticizing the steak someone replies with "He can probably still cook better than you". This comment is not appropriate because of a clear reason: The guy who ordered the steak isn't a chef. That situation is exactly the same as comparing me to Machine. Personally, I never played Brood War for a decade, I never was part of a pro gaming team, and I don't play Starcraft several hours a day to compete in tourneys (although I highly doubt Machine does this). What I can do however, is compare Machine's level of skill to someone superior. That's when I notice the major flaws in his play and how his "amazing macro" isn't really that amazing, let alone his control. This would be a fair argument if you hadn't already compared yourself to machine I was replying to what you were saying and saying why I believe it's still appropriate to call machine a progamer. I guess my overall point though, was that I don't really care how not amazing Machine is. There are better players out there I'm very well aware of that. I don't even care to watch Machine or Spades. But I think it's a complete waste of time to sit there and talk about why Machine isn't as good as them unless it's for your own self improvement. But most of the time it's not.
What does me comparing myself to machine have to do with my argument being incorrect? It's the same thing if not worse: "I could have seasoned this steak better and I'm not even a chef".
You not even caring to watch Machine is exactly the reason why these flaws in his play are a bad thing. When I watch two pro teams battle it out (RGN vs EG), I expect my standards of high level players to be fulfilled, but instead I'm disappointed with major mistakes that no pro player should be ever doing. I'm just going to make it clear: what many of these players did WAS terrible, and saying I'm not a pro gamer and so I wouldn't understand doesn't cut it for me when I can see several players avoid these mistakes at all times.
|
Eh, the real problem is that there are so many meta-community threads (like this one) that just overstress issues and just pick stuff up and argue.
People will watch a Proleague game and say that a player played awfully or terribly, but the difference is, nobody will just pick that comment up, jump on it and argue over 10 pages about it (especially if it's true, relative to existing standards ofc).
However if you say anything even slightly negative about anyone in a completely non-offensive context in SC2, his entire fanclub thread group will pick it up and all hell breaks loose.
Yeah there are people who will be straight up offensive about it, just wait until they get banned and let it go. They are still a huge minority, and most of the shitstorms comes from "regular" users just arguing in circles about something.
|
On August 03 2011 10:17 Chill wrote:
This aura of negativity is frustrating and it's something new to the Starcraft community. It's made me not want to cast, stream, post, basically... do anything.
Yeah, there was an aura of respect around BW and the pro players. There was still this troll style 'criticism', but I don't think it was near as bad. There was also that feeling of, "yeah, (x) is a good foreigner, but he's not Korean." But it was totally true.
Now, people just want to degrade pros and be 'funny' (or troll)... it's sad.
|
im kind of new to the starcraft scene and just wondered whether stream chats were actually representative of the majority of the community or whether it's only idiots who bother to chat whilst watching matches as I hope is the case.
this is the case.
|
On August 03 2011 12:40 Joey Wheeler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 12:33 TERRANLOL wrote:On August 03 2011 12:17 Joey Wheeler wrote:On August 03 2011 12:01 TERRANLOL wrote:On August 03 2011 11:52 Joey Wheeler wrote:
Watching Machine vs Spades right now was so incredibly cringe worthy I can't help but notice how justifiable this "negativity" towards pro gamers is. As a Mid Masters Zerg (by no means am I good in any way), even I felt that I could have handled multiple situations much better than Machine did. I mean seriously, losing 8 mutas to marines because he wasn't paying attention to them? Someone who does this constantly does not deserve to be called a pro gamer, and this is exactly what Machine did as he continued to make these huge blunders throughout the game. It's not just Machine, I've even seen Rainbow just leave 30 marines by themselves on a watch tower so he can donate them to an entire Zerg army for no reason.
In the end, this negativity has good points and the only good way to stop is by actually getting better. How often do you see people talking shit about blunders MC or Nestea did? I'd really like someone to point that out for me. Well. In all fairness, let's take something into consideration: You and he are both on the ladder. Yet, you're not playing with those guys (which is my assumption). And we know that they're on top of the ladder. So as an overall rule his play must be better than yours. Maybe the idea of losing 8 mutas to marines is a blunder and is cost inneffective in itself, but maybe a mistake you make which makes you incapable of making that mistake is paying too much attention to your mutalisks and not enough attention to other things like macro. So in 90% of the situations he's put in he has awesome macro and doesn't lose his mutalisks, but you never lose your mutalisks (which I doubt in itself) and you don't have excellent macro most of the time. My bet is, even making those mistakes, players like EGmachine and Spades would still beat you. BUT regardless I think a better question is why do people get so much enjoyment out of pointing out other people's mistakes? I frequent a website called 9gag.com. It's an imageboard for funny pictures. It used to be a lot better but now most of the "funny pictures" are pictures of people saying stupid things on yahoo answers and someone saying something "smart" in response. Or they're posts of how christians are stupid or how some group of people is stupid... I guess it's just something people enjoy doing, talking about other's mistakes. I think overall though, these people come out to be people who don't accomplish much in general. I think a certain amount of humbleness really helps in making yourself better than you were before. Imagine if someone goes to a restaurant, orders a dish, and is disgusted by it. He comments on how it's terrible, and upon hearing this individual criticizing the steak someone replies with "He can probably still cook better than you". This comment is not appropriate because of a clear reason: The guy who ordered the steak isn't a chef. That situation is exactly the same as comparing me to Machine. Personally, I never played Brood War for a decade, I never was part of a pro gaming team, and I don't play Starcraft several hours a day to compete in tourneys (although I highly doubt Machine does this). What I can do however, is compare Machine's level of skill to someone superior. That's when I notice the major flaws in his play and how his "amazing macro" isn't really that amazing, let alone his control. This would be a fair argument if you hadn't already compared yourself to machine I was replying to what you were saying and saying why I believe it's still appropriate to call machine a progamer. I guess my overall point though, was that I don't really care how not amazing Machine is. There are better players out there I'm very well aware of that. I don't even care to watch Machine or Spades. But I think it's a complete waste of time to sit there and talk about why Machine isn't as good as them unless it's for your own self improvement. But most of the time it's not. What does me comparing myself to machine have to do with my argument being incorrect? It's the same thing if not worse: "I could have seasoned this steak better and I'm not even a chef". You not even caring to watch Machine is exactly the reason why these flaws in his play are a bad thing. When I watch two pro teams battle it out (RGN vs EG), I expect my standards of high level players to be fulfilled, but instead I'm disappointed with major mistakes that no pro player should be ever doing. I'm just going to make it clear: what many of these players did WAS terrible, and saying I'm not a pro gamer and so I wouldn't understand doesn't cut it for me when I can see several players avoid these mistakes at all times.
Oh I see I misunderstood your argument.
Regardless, I still think it is a waste of time to sit there and talk about why machine and spades are bad. If you are dissatisfied with the players go watch another tournament. If you want the tournament to have better players, write IGN an email. Bad mouthing the players just makes the community look bad.
The argument concerning IGN not meeting your standards seems kind of silly considering that IPL is actually free.
|
At first I tried to fight the system by calling everyone out that made huge assumptions about how good or bad someone is based on the one best of X they were seeing. After getting frustrated at getting trolled back after that I learned that many of the people in JTV chat are just morons trying to stir up shit. I now just automatically hide the chat or if they have an embed on TL I watch it without chat on here.
|
On August 03 2011 13:03 Demonace34 wrote:
At first I tried to fight the system by calling everyone out that made huge assumptions about how good or bad someone is based on the one best of X they were seeing. After getting frustrated at getting trolled back after that I learned that many of the people in JTV chat are just morons trying to stir up shit. I now just automatically hide the chat or if they have an embed on TL I watch it without chat on here.
I remember having continuous positive experiences with BW stream chat. It multiplied my enjoyment of the games. I have avoided SC2 chat for months now because it significantly reduces my enjoyment of the games. The main problem I have with the chat is the continuous complaining about everything (stream lag, game lag, this break is too long, the audio sucks, this background music is bad, why aren't they casting this other series instead, this observer keeps missing everything, I have complete vision of the game and this dumbass with fog of war is doing it wrong, this race is IMBA, premium content costs too much, premium content didn't meet my expectations, these games suck compared to those games, these players suck compared to those players, these casters suck compared to those casters, this league sucks compared to that league).
|
Lol when I first read this for some reason I thought of destiny.
EDIT: Oh cool I got a zergling!
|
what? how is this a problem?
I am a cubs fan. Do I usually talk about how awful the cubs are every season? yes. Do i realize that they are 234324 times more talented than I am at baseball? Duh
Everything is fucking relative, people. When someone says a pro sucks (in SC2, football, soccer, basketball, whatever) they are implicitly implying that they suck COMPARED TO OTHER PROS. Seriously, by the OP's logic, no one would be able to criticize their favorite sports teams.
|
Meet humans, this is what they are like, grow a thicker skin.
|
On August 03 2011 11:47 askTeivospy wrote:
its funny because I mod one of the streams and I noticed people being completely idiotic/rude similar to examples in this thread in the chat. Then when they are banned / timeouted they complain about it in the stream thread. Except they complain about us being immature while using their new found grade 12 level try-hard-polite-grown-up-writing.
It makes me question how many people who post on teamliquid are immature but hiding it everywhere but on stream chats. I think it has to be said that a lot of people on this site hide how they actually are just so they aren't banned.
I could only imagine how much better the community was during BW days :\
TBH, you are correct. In fact a lot of people hide like this:
On August 03 2011 10:14 aeris wrote:
o gawd are you really complaining about stream chat?
I hope you realize the generic person in stream chat is a malicious heartless wanna be troll. Seriously stream chats are often the scum of the earth.
Don't take anything you read in stream chats to be the 'voice of the community' or anything. In reality it's like 2 fat obnoxious people spamming about the streamers skill etc.
like if you're a closet gay but have been brought up to fear and hate that lifestyle, so anonymously you're all over it but publicly you condemn it very harshly. Not saying the above poster is this way, however it does happen all the time.
|
On August 03 2011 12:45 Shebuha wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 10:17 Chill wrote:
This aura of negativity is frustrating and it's something new to the Starcraft community. It's made me not want to cast, stream, post, basically... do anything. Yeah, there was an aura of respect around BW and the pro players. There was still this troll style 'criticism', but I don't think it was near as bad. There was also that feeling of, "yeah, (x) is a good foreigner, but he's not Korean." But it was totally true. Now, people just want to degrade pros and be 'funny' (or troll)... it's sad.
That's true actually. I think it's because the community, at least foreign, was a lot tighter. The fans had mostly been playing for a long time, and knew their place in comparison to top players because it had been beaten into them through the years.
Maybe that's part of it at least.
|
On August 03 2011 12:17 Joey Wheeler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 12:01 TERRANLOL wrote:On August 03 2011 11:52 Joey Wheeler wrote:
Watching Machine vs Spades right now was so incredibly cringe worthy I can't help but notice how justifiable this "negativity" towards pro gamers is. As a Mid Masters Zerg (by no means am I good in any way), even I felt that I could have handled multiple situations much better than Machine did. I mean seriously, losing 8 mutas to marines because he wasn't paying attention to them? Someone who does this constantly does not deserve to be called a pro gamer, and this is exactly what Machine did as he continued to make these huge blunders throughout the game. It's not just Machine, I've even seen Rainbow just leave 30 marines by themselves on a watch tower so he can donate them to an entire Zerg army for no reason.
In the end, this negativity has good points and the only good way to stop is by actually getting better. How often do you see people talking shit about blunders MC or Nestea did? I'd really like someone to point that out for me. Well. In all fairness, let's take something into consideration: You and he are both on the ladder. Yet, you're not playing with those guys (which is my assumption). And we know that they're on top of the ladder. So as an overall rule his play must be better than yours. Maybe the idea of losing 8 mutas to marines is a blunder and is cost inneffective in itself, but maybe a mistake you make which makes you incapable of making that mistake is paying too much attention to your mutalisks and not enough attention to other things like macro. So in 90% of the situations he's put in he has awesome macro and doesn't lose his mutalisks, but you never lose your mutalisks (which I doubt in itself) and you don't have excellent macro most of the time. My bet is, even making those mistakes, players like EGmachine and Spades would still beat you. BUT regardless I think a better question is why do people get so much enjoyment out of pointing out other people's mistakes? I frequent a website called 9gag.com. It's an imageboard for funny pictures. It used to be a lot better but now most of the "funny pictures" are pictures of people saying stupid things on yahoo answers and someone saying something "smart" in response. Or they're posts of how christians are stupid or how some group of people is stupid... I guess it's just something people enjoy doing, talking about other's mistakes. I think overall though, these people come out to be people who don't accomplish much in general. I think a certain amount of humbleness really helps in making yourself better than you were before. Imagine if someone goes to a restaurant, orders a dish, and is disgusted by it. He comments on how it's terrible, and upon hearing this individual criticizing the steak someone replies with "He can probably still cook better than you". This comment is not appropriate because of a clear reason: The guy who ordered the steak isn't a chef.That situation is exactly the same as comparing me to Machine. Personally, I never played Brood War for a decade, I never was part of a pro gaming team, and I don't play Starcraft several hours a day to compete in tourneys (although I highly doubt Machine does this). What I can do however, is compare Machine's level of skill to someone superior. That's when I notice the major flaws in his play and how his "amazing macro" isn't really that amazing, let alone his control.
facile argument. he might very well be another chef, and could be a master at making one, but noone in the restaurant knows him because he smurfs his chef account.
Additionally, in this game, everyone is practicing and TRYING to be the perfect chef. A more appropriate analogy would actually be a cooking school, where people get to try the dishes of others and rate them.
In essence, flawed argument.
|
I almost completely avoid tournament chats and often LR threads for this very reason. I remember many occasions where I've been watching the GSL and sees a game that I find interesting and go to read the LR thread to discuss it, it's been full with post of how bad something was, how bad the players were or something completely unrelated to the game at hand like caster bashing and so on. It completely ruins the fun and you often end up more annoyed than anything.
|
How is a normally-powerless-in-his-everyday-crappy-life teenager going to act in a situation where there's no longer any limits?
|
On August 03 2011 12:33 Teim wrote:
I don't even open the chat windows anymore. No point in tainting my viewing experience.
Pretty much. I think it's cool to interact with players like iNcontroL and Sheth, but so many chat channels are unbearable.
|
Kudos for TL to have such a great moderated forum. Without the strict moderation we would see more idiots posting shit stuff here as well.
I have a stream running and can tell: the smaller the amount of viewers, the less shit talk. Why is that so? It's natural. People dont have the feeling they can "hide" amongst others. Take one human being, he will most of the time act as a human being. Take a whole lot of people and they will act as a herd of cows believing that they can get away with their shit talk.
In addition: In real life those idiots writing shit stuff don't get any attention at all. This is just another way of expressing their frustration. Just ignore or like TL does immediately warn/temp ban/ban the people and show them that they have crossed a line which they shouldnt have.
|
On August 03 2011 12:31 Gamegene wrote:
Ugh. I'm starting to hate this liberal use of the word troll.
Is it just me because acting like a fucktard isn't trolling, there are some geniune people out there who are actually just immature and stupid. If it was just 5-10 trolls at a time we wouldn't be caring at all.
yep, even logical disagreement has come to be called "trolling" now and then. its the new "unpatriotic" label used to destroy the credibility of someone's argument. Its a witch hunt all over again.
|
I don't see any problem in calling a player bad and saying that a caster is bad.
Also, if you can back statements like "the caster has no clue" up with proper knowledge then it is also fine to say that.
Saying "damn that caster is bad I hope he dies of cancer" is totally different, though. But insulting was always bad.
So what is the point of the thread again?
|
it's disgusting and retarded! I can't stand the forums and live chats these days, almost every post is hate towards someone that actually DOES something for the community and many times for free!
i mean the most hated communitys members are always players, casters and event organizers! So they hate on people that do shit, bring content for us to see and that is almost always for free!
If those guys actually did something besides being on their mothers basement writing shit on forums, I wouldn't so pissed off!
The hate is killing me(not esports) because it's a lot less fun to see anything and have a discussion about it besides:
"X sucks"
"Y sucks and is a dick"
"foreigns suck, koreans are much better"
"i hate that because of this, so i hope they lose"
"A voice is annoying"
"B is ugly and got no game knowledge, he should die"
bla bla
|
On August 03 2011 13:31 ploy wrote:
what? how is this a problem?
I am a cubs fan. Do I usually talk about how awful the cubs are every season? yes. Do i realize that they are 234324 times more talented than I am at baseball? Duh
Everything is fucking relative, people. When someone says a pro sucks (in SC2, football, soccer, basketball, whatever) they are implicitly implying that they suck COMPARED TO OTHER PROS. Seriously, by the OP's logic, no one would be able to criticize their favorite sports teams.
OP is just complaining about anyone complaining. This is more of a blog that somehow made it to become a thread. I guess his favorite player never lost doing something stupid and was never upset about it.
|
Glad someone brought this up. When i play ladder and play really good players and win people is messaging me saying that i stream snipe just to be on their stream which i don't. I just play and then Que direct after. And same goes for when i play good players that streams and loses people just messaging me randomly and raging at me saying that i got stomped on. Like of course i cant win every game? which i don't but no one does? and im not the best player even by far and still people goes on a rampage fest. I get threats sometimes because i don't reply when i game and even when i don't type "gg" And thats not because i dont want to say "gg" or "gl hf" its just that i just focus on the game rather then get raged on later if i win or lose.
I stopped doing that a long time ago since people raged on me for doing it too and all this spamming made me sick. So i put my screen in a weird way that works for me so i cant see people messaging me on b.net(menu)
Viewers doesn't just rage on the streamer, they rage on the opponent too. If you don't deliver you're doomed lol.
|
On August 03 2011 10:17 Chill wrote:
This aura of negativity is frustrating and it's something new to the Starcraft community. It's made me not want to cast, stream, post, basically... do anything.
No way Chill - you're awesome!
|
Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
Its so apparent though, the whole community has become so darn critical of everything and everyone. Not too many people seem to appreciate just how lucky they are with everything thats happening. I cant stand the LR threads sometimes, the amount of negativity is saddening.
We would have killed for all that is happening today the past 13 years. The Korean leagues are broadcasted and we have good vods, the tournaments are INCREDIBLE with a great audience and there are many of them, the scene is huge and growing, TL has better content than ever, and there are more good casters than we've ever had before.
Sadly, with SC2 came the masses, and there's quite a lot of young players it seems.
As for the players, people just have too high expectations. Us BW nerds are used to Koreans dominating the shit out of us. There were just two different leagues, good foreigners, and good koreans. Now everything is mixed and people expect far too much, and get disappointed when this doesnt happen. Meh.
I hope the aura of positivity returns and people can be more respectful.
|
I don't really agree. Yes there is negativity but there's also so much positive. When someone does something amazing people get crazy happy. And usually at the end of the game people are talking about how great the winner is rather than how bad the loser is (excepting ofc if they are far more interested in the loser e.g. idra).
People should be allowed to comment. Even if its negative. Its part of discussion of any sport. Watching people fail can be just as interesting as someone doing well. I don't personally want to be part of a picture perfect audience that only says good things. That's boring.
Barring a few over the top malicious sagas like the whole kelly thing I think people overreact to this sort of stuff.
I guess it gets different when the negativity becomes hateful but that's really a small small minority imo.
|
Don't look at stream chats and youtube comments - problem solved
You can't enter a landfill and expect to not find any garbage.
It's sad that it is this way, but it is as it is and trolls and rude people won't vanish overnight.
|
husky made a dumb video about banelings and now he wants to be a caster, who wouldnt bash on him? kid knows nothing
User was warned for this post
User was temp banned for this post.
|
In regards to the general attitude towards what skill is, this community has ridiculous standards to determine who is not a shit player. If footballers were held to the same standards as Starcraft players, there'd only be one or two good teams in the world, and the rest would be shit.
So many people seem to have this notion that good players can not make mistakes, and if they do, they are useless. That's the one big thing that bothers me about the community.
|
On August 03 2011 10:17 PopcornColonel wrote:When I began to read your post, I didn't think I would agree, but when I thought about it while watching IPL, I realized how much people actually are douchebags towards players. There were many comments in the EGMachine vs RGNSpades match that made me facepalm, along the line of "Wow BOTH these players are so bad," when I doubt literally any of them could beat either player. I just think some don't have the place to talk. Constructive criticism is fine, but outright calling pro players bad is just nonsensical. I don't know if I was being trolled, but they seemed pretty serious. Examples:
posts like this make me rage for their stupidity, even though i beling to the "silent majority" i had to admit those games were horrible and yes, im allowed to say that even though they would beat me with ez in a 1v1 because guess what? im not the progamer , they are. I am the guy that actually allowes them to earn money trough playing starcraft 2 and as such i can expect a certain level of entertainment, its their job and its up to them to fulfill their job or to get fired.
I dont want to sound to angry or hateful towards the players, since i dont hate (not even in those games) but as a viewer i can pretend a certain quality in the games provided to me, and saying "LOL YOU CANT BEAT THEM SO YOU CANT CRITIZICE EM" its stupid
|
United States22883 Posts
On August 03 2011 10:17 Chill wrote:
This aura of negativity is frustrating and it's something new to the Starcraft community. It's made me not want to cast, stream, post, basically... do anything.
Part of it is bandwagon negativity, but also keep in mind the relative level of low-mid level pros is much, much lower than that we saw in BW. BW lacked a lot of the negativity simply because the players played so, so, so, so well. Occasionally there was ugliness, but it's not like people didn't constantly make fun of Rock or Mumyung. Today, and certainly in the EG-Reign match everyone is talking about, there are a lot of Mumyung's.
Look at Losira-Nestea, for example. The outcome was onesided, but no one is calling Losira a crappy player or terrible at ZvZ, because we realize how incredibly awesome Nestea's play was.
Are we more spoiled than we were 3-4-5 years ago? In the amount of games we get to watch, but I don't think the average quality is even comparable. Beyond that, this is just what happens in sports. Fans bitch a lot and then they get hyped. That doesn't mean they stop watching.
Granted, I might have a reputation as a critical ass, but a lot of people making fun of the match last night did not. It's a discretionary thing, though. Sometimes there really is a lot of baseless negativity, but sometimes it's well deserved.
|
i always tell myself those are all kids (probably false) otherwise i'd lose faith in humanity
and the fun we made of hyuk and zergbong for example (yeah nestea did get his fair share)
really was of another kind, it was actually FUN, i can only imagine everyone had a big banana grin, and i somehow dont think those haters have that :D
|
On August 03 2011 19:20 Enderskmc wrote:
husky made a dumb video about banelings and now he wants to be a caster, who wouldnt bash on him? kid knows nothing
Husky may not be as knowledgeable about sc2 as someone like Day9 or MrBitter, but does that mean that he should be bashed on for casting? Both Husky and TotalBiscuit provide great play-by-play and usually have a co-caster like MrBitter/Day9 to provide the analytical part of the cast. This is what makes a good casting combo and a successful show.
But as far as stream viewers go; they are extremely critical, and not only of the players, but also the casters themselves. The players we cast are semi-pro EU players who make it to the top and beat various pro-players but the amount of times I've seen people rage when they loose a unit or loose to someone who they don't know it goes wild, some people just don't remember to respect the people entertaining them.
I personally hate it when people aim that sort of hate towards casters for no legitimate reason, feedback is welcome but saying stupid shit like "this caster knows nothing!" and yet everything he's said so far is correct is just plain retarded, even when people make mistakes it's not like it's a huge deal and the stream will end because of it.
but tl;dr: People need to realise that those players and stream staff are there to entertain the viewer, and they are doing this for free - no cost to you - so cut them some slack and just enjoy the show, if you want to give criticism, great, make it constructive or email them, saying troll comments in chat gets you nowhere.
|
On August 03 2011 19:29 darlhet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 10:17 PopcornColonel wrote:When I began to read your post, I didn't think I would agree, but when I thought about it while watching IPL, I realized how much people actually are douchebags towards players. There were many comments in the EGMachine vs RGNSpades match that made me facepalm, along the line of "Wow BOTH these players are so bad," when I doubt literally any of them could beat either player. I just think some don't have the place to talk. Constructive criticism is fine, but outright calling pro players bad is just nonsensical. I don't know if I was being trolled, but they seemed pretty serious. Examples: posts like this make me rage for their stupidity, even though i beling to the "silent majority" i had to admit those games were horrible and yes, im allowed to say that even though they would beat me with ez in a 1v1 because guess what? im not the progamer , they are. I am the guy that actually allowes them to earn money trough playing starcraft 2 and as such i can expect a certain level of entertainment, its their job and its up to them to fulfill their job or to get fired. I dont want to sound to angry or hateful towards the players, since i dont hate (not even in those games) but as a viewer i can pretend a certain quality in the games provided to me, and saying "LOL YOU CANT BEAT THEM SO YOU CANT CRITIZICE EM" its stupid
lol what kind of attitude is that?
they dont owe you anything ^^
and you can criticize them all you want but flaming them in a public chat is another thing
and even then, you can, but you shouldnt
|
On August 03 2011 12:12 Tegin wrote:
Can find this type of behavior in any of Destiny or Desrow's stream chat. I don't think they're 100% to blame but I do see somewhat of a trend. Bottomline, be more respectful and mannered. To avoid all of this, simply don't join the chat.
As far as commentator's go..not sure why people complain nonstop and feel they need to announce their hate to the world. Don't like the commentator? Mute it!
Most of the reason, aka the kelly hate, etc was because they want the organizers to know not to hire the person or use them in the future. Although this doesn't usually happen civilly. How as a fan do you say "I don't want to listen to day9 cast a tournament" without being rude? Just an example. It's a way to give feedback, which is honestly important. Would there be better ways to do this aka have polls? yes, but have you seen gomtv ask for a poll on code a casters? Its usually community feedback started by TL members that start those polls.
It's honestly valuable feedback, "we want to watch koreans" was very strong feedback during NASL player choices, and is slowly getting to ign (also because of low viewer counts). The good comes with the bad but feedback needs a place to be vented even if the organization ignores it (nasl). IT could be handled better with mannered polls on caster feedback (husky even makes threads for feedbacks), etc but feedback needs to happen. TAstosis improved a lot (their work not haterS) from gomtv 1 on, was there a lot of needless hating from newbies who thought tasteless for instance had no idea how to play despite really good beta performances? yeah, but they still improved from it.
On a whole feedback is good and it's probably because its not directed in better ways (polls/etc) for people to be heard. You could have 70% of a stream who dislike the caster and without feedback it would never be known, so obviously people hate.
Honestly too, a lot of the streamers and even low-mid tier foreign pros have pretty poor mechanics compared to even B team koreans.
|
On August 03 2011 19:29 darlhet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 10:17 PopcornColonel wrote:When I began to read your post, I didn't think I would agree, but when I thought about it while watching IPL, I realized how much people actually are douchebags towards players. There were many comments in the EGMachine vs RGNSpades match that made me facepalm, along the line of "Wow BOTH these players are so bad," when I doubt literally any of them could beat either player. I just think some don't have the place to talk. Constructive criticism is fine, but outright calling pro players bad is just nonsensical. I don't know if I was being trolled, but they seemed pretty serious. Examples: posts like this make me rage for their stupidity, even though i beling to the "silent majority" i had to admit those games were horrible and yes, im allowed to say that even though they would beat me with ez in a 1v1 because guess what? im not the progamer , they are. I am the guy that actually allowes them to earn money trough playing starcraft 2 and as such i can expect a certain level of entertainment, its their job and its up to them to fulfill their job or to get fired. I dont want to sound to angry or hateful towards the players, since i dont hate (not even in those games) but as a viewer i can pretend a certain quality in the games provided to me, and saying "LOL YOU CANT BEAT THEM SO YOU CANT CRITIZICE EM" its stupid
I don't know how much you "allow them to earn money through playing starcraft 2" but we have enough useless criticism downing on players. And I can't take you seriously because of your spelling/grammar....
Also, unless your donating/sponsoring a player you really can't say "allow them to earn money" if your just watching their streams.
People like Husky have it really bad. He takes so much crap from this community yet he's the one spreading sc2 and e-sports via youtube. The criticism I see on youtube and stream chats really just disappoints me sometimes. Again, I'm not saying you can't criticise someone as long as it's constructive.
|
On August 03 2011 12:12 Tegin wrote:
Can find this type of behavior in any of Destiny or Desrow's stream chat. I don't think they're 100% to blame but I do see somewhat of a trend. Bottomline, be more respectful and mannered. To avoid all of this, simply don't join the chat.
As far as commentator's go..not sure why people complain nonstop and feel they need to announce their hate to the world. Don't like the commentator? Mute it!
Destiny isn't really a good example since he basically encourage it. Also you can see any chat that isn't moderated turn into a troll/flame war no matter what player they are watching. It's like when people see an unmoderated online chat they take that as a green light to troll to their hearts content. Especially since there is always a bunch of people that take the flaim baits seriously and try to reason with them, it doesn't stop. I'm pretty sure that if people would ignore the trolls the majority of them would get bored and move on.
|
On August 03 2011 19:54 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 12:12 Tegin wrote:
Can find this type of behavior in any of Destiny or Desrow's stream chat. I don't think they're 100% to blame but I do see somewhat of a trend. Bottomline, be more respectful and mannered. To avoid all of this, simply don't join the chat.
As far as commentator's go..not sure why people complain nonstop and feel they need to announce their hate to the world. Don't like the commentator? Mute it! Destiny isn't really a good example since he basically encourage it. Also you can see any chat that isn't moderated turn into a troll/flame war no matter what player they are watching. It's like when people see an unmoderated online chat they take that as a green light to troll to their hearts content. Especially since there is always a bunch of people that take the flaim baits seriously and try to reason with them, it doesn't stop. I'm pretty sure that if people would ignore the trolls the majority of them would get bored and move on.
You have never replied to a troll, have you?
Some people just say things that are so stupid that the only way of putting up with it is telling him he's an idiot.
I blame young/uneducated people for most of the trolling. They identify themselves with destiny or whoever (not to hate on him, I think he's a nice and smart person) and that's why their chat is the worst.
Once sc2 is ten years old most of the idiots will have gone away.
|
On August 03 2011 19:36 Firesilver wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 19:20 Enderskmc wrote:
husky made a dumb video about banelings and now he wants to be a caster, who wouldnt bash on him? kid knows nothing Husky may not be as knowledgeable about sc2 as someone like Day9 or MrBitter, but does that mean that he should be bashed on for casting? Both Husky and TotalBiscuit provide great play-by-play and usually have a co-caster like MrBitter/Day9 to provide the analytical part of the cast. This is what makes a good casting combo and a successful show.
Actually Husky is way better than MrBitter when it comes to analyzing. Just rewatch MLG, MrBitter is constantly repeating what Husky said even if it contradicted the point he made before.
That is no offense to MrBitter, though. Just wanted to point out that sainyg Husky isn't as knowledgeable as MrBitter lacks clear evidence. But it seems that over the time they casted together, MrBitter adopted a bit of Husky's "style". But just a bit. If he keeps improving he could do pretty well.^
So yea. This is how easy false conclusions get around...
|
The sad fact of the matter is people on the internet are going to hate.
Until we have a system like Korea where everything you do is tied to your Nation security number (Or which ever system you country uses) then we will get this stuff.
It is kids and people who are not happy with their own lives or skill level or w/e - pity them do not feed them and most of all ignore them.
Some people are also super jelly that these players or casters are e-famous and want nothing more than to be in their position. So it could also be seen as a form of flattery to be hatin' on people.
I have casters I don't like but you gotta respect them for getting out there and doing it! A prime example for me is TB, I think he is a really nice guy and what he is doing is amazing for the community but personally I don't like to listen to play-by-play stuff. This does not mean I send him personal abuse..... I have an IQ bigger than my shoe size you see!
|
I dont think this is an issue when it comes to casters. I think most are pretty fair in their analyses of the players and their games.
Random stream chats on the other hand........
But kids are just everywhere. Its about e-peen, thinking they are all cool when they call pro players "noobs" and such. Once they mature they will know it aint cool anymore.
|
You all have to keep in mind that many pro players and casters get money for what they do. If they play or cast bad, they basically fail at their own job. So it's obvious that people will react negative.
I'm not saying that it's cool that everyone posts his opinion everywhere, but when you become a public figure, EXPECT to be judged.
And please people, stop mentioning the korean system. It's awful to have no privacy, be happy that it's different here.
|
On August 03 2011 19:45 mcht wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 19:29 darlhet wrote:On August 03 2011 10:17 PopcornColonel wrote:When I began to read your post, I didn't think I would agree, but when I thought about it while watching IPL, I realized how much people actually are douchebags towards players. There were many comments in the EGMachine vs RGNSpades match that made me facepalm, along the line of "Wow BOTH these players are so bad," when I doubt literally any of them could beat either player. I just think some don't have the place to talk. Constructive criticism is fine, but outright calling pro players bad is just nonsensical. I don't know if I was being trolled, but they seemed pretty serious. Examples: posts like this make me rage for their stupidity, even though i beling to the "silent majority" i had to admit those games were horrible and yes, im allowed to say that even though they would beat me with ez in a 1v1 because guess what? im not the progamer , they are. I am the guy that actually allowes them to earn money trough playing starcraft 2 and as such i can expect a certain level of entertainment, its their job and its up to them to fulfill their job or to get fired. I dont want to sound to angry or hateful towards the players, since i dont hate (not even in those games) but as a viewer i can pretend a certain quality in the games provided to me, and saying "LOL YOU CANT BEAT THEM SO YOU CANT CRITIZICE EM" its stupid lol what kind of attitude is that? they dont owe you anything ^^ and you can criticize them all you want but flaming them in a public chat is another thing and even then, you can, but you shouldnt
did i say they "owe" me something? in some way they do , but i didnt go into that, a progamer playing really bad is someone not fullfilling his job, and disappointment is to be expected
|
Don't know, now that I am somewhat "older" I also look down on all the retards that type shit in those chatrooms. But I can't be certain that I would have been the bigger person when I was 13-16. And there will always be 13 year olds.
|
oh man, you're so off it's not even funnny ^^
where are the good times
|
Well my simple solution to this is dont turn on Stream Chat on Public Events or popular Streams.
The more people involved, the higher chance of jerks and the negative voice is always louder than the positive.
Try to join smaller Stream-Chats or create own communications networks (contact the people you think are okay directly and get into conversation that way). For example if you like watching SC:BW from time to time, join Sayle's Stream, the chat there is always friendly.
Its just the nature of Internet, unfortunately.
|
I see you've met humanity.
Colorful bunch.
|
On August 03 2011 20:27 Philosophy wrote:
You all have to keep in mind that many pro players and casters get money for what they do. If they play or cast bad, they basically fail at their own job. So it's obvious that people will react negative.
I'm not saying that it's cool that everyone posts his opinion everywhere, but when you become a public figure, EXPECT to be judged.
And please people, stop mentioning the korean system. It's awful to have no privacy, be happy that it's different here.
I wanted to comment on that, but then I noticed that the opening might not be about that the loser gets criticized so heavily, but outright flamed. To that I only have one response: welcome to the Internet.
Anyways, as long as most competitive gamers in the western scene train from home and do several other stuff gaming related besides it (casting and coaching for example), people will blame their failure due to lacking training. That the Koreans are so much better than they are even seem to underline the fact. What most people underestimate though, is how hard training to such a high level is and how greatly the presence of a coach supporting you can be.
|
Yea stream chats are pretty horrible probably most of the worst damaged trolls are ex-wow players who actually think that they are good at games...
|
I think that the negativity comes from jealous young viewers who are seeing a slightly subpar game and going totally overboard with the criticism. People were commenting on how bad Machine and Spades were playing because Spades didn't get medivacs, let his marines die to banelings off creep, and had poor macro. Machine had poor drop defence, floated tons of gas and suicided Mutas endlessly. Such mistakes are really easy to spot and to pick on. What people don't realise is everything they are doing that is incredibly difficult. Machine is injecting very well, no Diamond level players would be able to produce 100 Zerglings at once to reinforce, because all their queens would have 200 energy. Machine clearly knew his opponent would turtle after holding the first push and so double expanded which was great game sense. Spades had excellent muta defence and was safe from counter attacks all game. Machine did some excellent baneling bombs on mineral lines and scouted dilligently, created flanks with his zerglings and banelings and was patient, letting Terran walk onto creep. His drone timings were very good, not once was there a time he was caught with his pants down.
These players do so much right and get no credit. Viewers need to actually watch a few replays of themselves and realise just how many mistakes they make.
|
any chat on a stream with 1000+ viewers is not a chat, it's a message board on accid. People say things to get noticed and when something is happening people go to extremes to stand out. The slow mode on justin doesn't really help, people will just say even more pointed stuff when they finally have chance, it just help mods to handle the situation better. Most streams have to few mods to handle the amount of viewers.
This is nothing to get upset over, if you want a clean chat you need to work on it. In BW there wasn't a big fanbase, that is just fans. SC2 has that, and they act like fans of any sport. Try to moderate a soccer forum and you will find the exact same thing. This is just taking the things you bitch about infront of the TV with friend to a chat or forum.
A chat is what the broadcaster chooses it to be, and a forum is what the admin/mods chooses it to be.
|
People suck man. Like really down to the core of it all, that's the problem. People identify a fault and call the other person out to make themselves feel better - that's it. Why else mention something like "Oh this players shit" even if they offer vindictive bullshit under the guise of strategic feedback it's not like the player's going to see it from an event's stream chat. It's because they want to feel like a big man to the rest of the people in chat because they aren't getting that feeling in their usual daily life. Look at society - one of the quickest ways to peer-bond is to tear down others. It's bullshit, people suck man.
|
The community is insanely negative to most things, not everyone but most people are.
It is the whole "4chan age" where it is more about drama, griefing, shit talking than it is about the actual game. If you watch most streams the majority people are posting garbage, outright trash. It is why certain players are more famous than others, because they bring that sort of shit talking, internet thug persona up.
Its not just SC2, its gaming in general, so when someone loses it is a green light to start talking crap in some sort of pseudo macho chat room where everyone is a former UFC champion, dating Adriana Lima, bench presses 300 pounds and earns 15 million $ a year. Just the online gaming community in general.
|
Just a bunch of failtard trolls best one I saw was:
"This Zerg Player is bad, can't macro for shit well over 1k gas, Why did they invite this scrub to this event" Then the spire finishes... Then 9 muta's and +1 Start...
If only we could Punch people via the internet.
|
This thread needs more love, <3
It's probably best to just ignore streamchats and youtube comments.
|
Why does it matter. When we watch football we also complain about the manager's decisions and the players. This has always been part of being a spectator don't try and change it.
|
I never ever open a chat in a stream anymore because there are people on the internet who are fucking morons. Just remember that its only a handful of dumb shits out of the thousands of viewers some streams get.
Ignoring idiots and not letting them get to you is a good skill to have on the internets and in real life.
|
There is this idiotic mentality that is all over TL that you must be better than someone at playing or casting to criticize them. This does not exist in other sports. It does not exist because this is not how the world actually works. If people think the play is shit they won't watch. If your boss thinks your work is crappy you will get fired, regardless of if he can do it better than you or not. This is a delusional approach and the sooner the community grows out of it the better.
I feel like a lot of times the negativity is just intensified by all the white knights trying to defend a poor player or caster and the backlash they encourage from both the trolls and reasonably critical people. You literally have in SC2, casters who will never say a negative thing about a player no matter how shit they are playing, and people in the community who will defend anything a player does.
I'm not saying you should call machine and spades shit players, there should be some level of respect for them as competitors, but don't try and tell me a game like that is "high level"... Pro sports commentators often say a team is playing awful, or having a really poor performance/season, as long as you are insulting only the game play and not the person themselves (i.e. saying a player is stupid, fat, etc... is clearly out of bounds) there should be no problem.
Lastly, people are just as quick to say something was awesome as they are to say something sucks. For everyone who jumped to say machine vs. spades was a terrible series and an embarrassing match for the NA scene there is someone who ranted and raved about the Puma vs. MC series. If anything I think the white knights in this community are a bigger drag on it than the trolls.
|
We always bash the football (soccer) commentator with my friends in the pubs. It is fun. The truth is, I wouldn't say it to his face.
|
Russian Federation63 Posts
I'd say that's the other side of meritocracy that SC tries to foster.
For a silver league player, without any real understanding of either what good strategy is or what it takes to execute it, there are only two ways to differentiate between a good and a bad player. First is on the basis of "who won". Second is on the basis of simple indicators, such as "1000 minerals" or "supply blocked" or "he let this unit just die".
To a person that really doesn't know any better, due to simply lack of adequate knowledge, seeing even a single one of these indicators is enough to come to a conclusion that the one who shows this indicators is a bad player. And since in SC progaming world results > all, being perceived as a bad player immediately condemns you to social ridicule.
It gets most hilarious when the person manages to win despite being supply blocked, losing his units sloppily and building up a trust fund. I win most my games like that and got an "omg you're slow how did i lose (" response (less politely worded tho) more than once.
I daresay that back in the days where chats were enjoyable, you didn't live in results > all world, and were rather happy to explore the game with like-minded individuals.
Sweet childhood, how i miss thee )))
|
With how big starcraft has happened i think it was bound to end up like this. Thats not to say that we posotive thinking people cant enjoy ourselves, you just have avoid hotspots for trolls and flamers. Do not go into a stream chat of a tournament EVER. The only time I`ve had nice conversations on a stream chat is when I was watching some of the less popular people.
TL;DR The greater the group of people the bigger chance of it being filled with assholes. Just ignore them and dont let them bother you
|
I normally don't open the chat on streams. I have a hard time relating to the internet troll crowd.
I can always find things to critisize, no problem there, but the attitude of the critisizm is what blows my mind. It's not "Ooo how could he miss that force field!" It's more like "OMG what a complete idiot! This guy blows! Uninstall retard!!!!!"
I think this is relates to low self esteem and insecurity/frustration in real life venting out with anonymity.
Really it's an indictment on youth culture in general, not just the internet or gaming.
|
I fully agree.
It's saddening to see really, it's turned away most of the pro players from forums like TL. It's not only for matches or casters, it's also whenever people post, there's just so much hate and flame it's ridiculous. Back in the "old" BW days, a semi-pro could go onto the strategy forum and write useful advice to people asking for help. These days it doesn't really matter who you are, if you're not IdrA, HuK or Tyler, your opinion means shit and you get flamed most of the time. This is why you rarely, if ever, see pros post in the strategy forum anymore.
|
On August 03 2011 21:48 Duravi wrote:
There is this idiotic mentality that is all over TL that you must be better than someone at playing or casting to criticize them. This does not exist in other sports. It does not exist because this is not how the world actually works. If people think the play is shit they won't watch. If your boss thinks your work is crappy you will get fired, regardless of if he can do it better than you or not. This is a delusional approach and the sooner the community grows out of it the better.
I feel like a lot of times the negativity is just intensified by all the white knights trying to defend a poor player or caster and the backlash they encourage from both the trolls and reasonably critical people. You literally have in SC2, casters who will never say a negative thing about a player no matter how shit they are playing, and people in the community who will defend anything a player does.
I'm not saying you should call machine and spades shit players, there should be some level of respect for them as competitors, but don't try and tell me a game like that is "high level"... Pro sports commentators often say a team is playing awful, or having a really poor performance/season, as long as you are insulting only the game play and not the person themselves (i.e. saying a player is stupid, fat, etc... is clearly out of bounds) there should be no problem.
Lastly, people are just as quick to say something was awesome as they are to say something sucks. For everyone who jumped to say machine vs. spades was a terrible series and an embarrassing match for the NA scene there is someone who ranted and raved about the Puma vs. MC series. If anything I think the white knights in this community are a bigger drag on it than the trolls.
You dont have to be a bonjwa just to critique peoples play, the problem is respect. There is a difference in saying "Wow i cant believe a pro player just got supply blocked" and "OMG THAT GUY IS SO BAD LOLOL he just got supply blocked what a noob get him off the stream" Both saying that it was bad to get supply blocked but the latter example is just rude, and mean.
So, yeah i kind of agree with you. I dont understand what your saying in your last paragraph though, you say that people said that spades vs machine was bad and that puma vs mc was great... so what? I'm confused if you could please explain that would be great.
|
On August 03 2011 22:28 Anfi wrote:
I'd say that's the other side of meritocracy that SC tries to foster.
For a silver league player, without any real understanding of either what good strategy is or what it takes to execute it, there are only two ways to differentiate between a good and a bad player. First is on the basis of "who won". Second is on the basis of simple indicators, such as "1000 minerals" or "supply blocked" or "he let this unit just die".
To a person that really doesn't know any better, due to simply lack of adequate knowledge, seeing even a single one of these indicators is enough to come to a conclusion that the one who shows this indicators is a bad player. And since in SC progaming world results > all, being perceived as a bad player immediately condemns you to social ridicule.
It gets most hilarious when the person manages to win despite being supply blocked, losing his units sloppily and building up a trust fund. I win most my games like that and got an "omg you're slow how did i lose (" response (less politely worded tho) more than once.
I daresay that back in the days where chats were enjoyable, you didn't live in results > all world, and were rather happy to explore the game with like-minded individuals.
Sweet childhood, how i miss thee )))
Well some of the points you made are certainly true, there are things that are obvious even to bronze level players as being bad. Having idle mutas sitting over a pack of marines, blocking your expo with a pylon by accident, etc... I don't appreciate watching a player or players make really basic mistakes all game long that anyone could identify as being bad and then being told afterwards that it was "high-level" game play. It insults the intelligence of the viewers.
|
On August 03 2011 22:40 gogatorsfoster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 21:48 Duravi wrote:
There is this idiotic mentality that is all over TL that you must be better than someone at playing or casting to criticize them. This does not exist in other sports. It does not exist because this is not how the world actually works. If people think the play is shit they won't watch. If your boss thinks your work is crappy you will get fired, regardless of if he can do it better than you or not. This is a delusional approach and the sooner the community grows out of it the better.
I feel like a lot of times the negativity is just intensified by all the white knights trying to defend a poor player or caster and the backlash they encourage from both the trolls and reasonably critical people. You literally have in SC2, casters who will never say a negative thing about a player no matter how shit they are playing, and people in the community who will defend anything a player does.
I'm not saying you should call machine and spades shit players, there should be some level of respect for them as competitors, but don't try and tell me a game like that is "high level"... Pro sports commentators often say a team is playing awful, or having a really poor performance/season, as long as you are insulting only the game play and not the person themselves (i.e. saying a player is stupid, fat, etc... is clearly out of bounds) there should be no problem.
Lastly, people are just as quick to say something was awesome as they are to say something sucks. For everyone who jumped to say machine vs. spades was a terrible series and an embarrassing match for the NA scene there is someone who ranted and raved about the Puma vs. MC series. If anything I think the white knights in this community are a bigger drag on it than the trolls. You dont have to be a bonjwa just to critique peoples play, the problem is respect. There is a difference in saying "Wow i cant believe a pro player just got supply blocked" and "OMG THAT GUY IS SO BAD LOLOL he just got supply blocked what a noob get him off the stream" Both saying that it was bad to get supply blocked but the latter example is just rude, and mean. So, yeah i kind of agree with you. I dont understand what your saying in your last paragraph though, you say that people said that spades vs machine was bad and that puma vs mc was great... so what? I'm confused if you could please explain that would be great.
All I was saying at the end there is that some people like Chill earlier in the thread seem to have this idea that the community is really negative. I don't think it is negative at all; it is just reactionary, both positive and negative. People are quick to call bad things bad, and just as fast to call good things good. I'll avoid further name dropping, but a lot of people (I would argue the majority but we can leave that for another discussion) were quick to call certain casters terrible; and a lot of people were just as quick to say Wolf was an excellent caster.
The only time I would argue this is a bad thing is when incomplete information is presented, and that can lead to some stupid witch hunts and drama ... as we have seen. But as far as players playing and casters casting, we are just basing our opinions off of what they are doing directly in front of us and it annoys the hell out of me when there is a general consensus that people do not enjoy X caster and then some community figure rides in on his high horse to tell us plebeians "X has done so much for the community, way more than you will ever do, so don't criticize the casting of X". That is moronic white knighting.
|
Russian Federation63 Posts
On August 03 2011 22:40 Duravi wrote:Well some of the points you made are certainly true, there are things that are obvious even to bronze level players as being bad. Having idle mutas sitting over a pack of marines, blocking your expo with a pylon by accident, etc... I don't appreciate watching a player or players make really basic mistakes all game long that anyone could identify as being bad and then being told afterwards that it was "high-level" game play. It insults the intelligence of the viewers.
I can identify with players who make basic mistakes all the time.
It is a player which is facing something he wasn't prepared for, which splits his focus so much he forgets the basic things.
Now, one might argue that being a pro means being prepared for everything. And that might be true. And i also don't care ).
What's really interesting is the question of what got a player like machine to drop the ball this much. Was it something his opponent did? If so, i need to figure out what it is and may want to incorporate some of this in my play ).
Is it some RL crap he is dealing with? If so, i am interested just for pure gossip reasons.
Keyword here - interested. It doesn't ruin my viewing experience, it increases it.
People who troll the chats are not interested. They just want to see something and point fingers at it.
Getting them interested... Now that's a brain-teaser )
|
On August 03 2011 22:46 Duravi wrote:
All I was saying at the end there is that some people like Chill earlier in the thread seem to have this idea that the community is really negative. I don't think it is negative at all; it is just reactionary, both positive and negative. People are quick to call bad things bad, and just as fast to call good things good. I'll avoid further name dropping, but a lot of people (I would argue the majority but we can leave that for another discussion) were quick to call certain casters terrible; and a lot of people were just as quick to say Wolf was an excellent caster.
The reality is just that because SC2 is on internet streams, and chat is available, you get this. I'm sure if it was "normal" to watch the NFL this way you'd get the exact same thing. Frankly, I don't give a shit what the peanut gallery would have to say about some QB playing bad that day either, but you know it would be just as bad if there was some way for everyone watching to talk to each other.
As long as I can turn Stream chats off, I'm good.
|
I don't actually mean to bash, even though I guess I am; it's just that I'm, I guess you could say, a connoisseur of light Starcraft, which is a world where the standards are higher for certain things.
|
Mobs are fickle. Just ignore hate, it isn't worth your time.
|
On August 03 2011 10:14 aeris wrote:
o gawd are you really complaining about stream chat?
I hope you realize the generic person in stream chat is a malicious heartless wanna be troll. Seriously stream chats are often the scum of the earth.
Don't take anything you read in stream chats to be the 'voice of the community' or anything. In reality it's like 2 fat obnoxious people spamming about the streamers skill etc.
Live Report threads on TL aren't much better during games. People burn down players for no apparent reason. Mostly when they lose. Best example being Rain vs Qxc during MLG day 2 (I think). Rain gets burned down all the time, where he's still an awesome player. Not the best, no, but not a scrub like people make him to be.
I wonder the same as the OP and I doubt we'll ever find out :D
|
On August 03 2011 10:15 Zenislev wrote:
I've noticed it too, and I wish streams had stricter moderation. If they just start permabanning the trolls eventually the stream chats will be less of the Wild West that they are now.
this is true. and its even more frustrating when its not in slow mode.
|
Hater's gonna hate, I had my mods on perma ban "mode" but it's hard to realize if someone is giving constructive criticism but being a bit blunt or simply being a dick. Both type got banned and then you have a fuck ton of complain and people claiming your mods are natzi or calling you insecure T_T
Some trolls even change their IP so they can come back and keep flaming you, the ignore option on jtv is awesome ^_ ^
|
Freedom and anonymity makes people more themselves, or perhaps more herd-like, than anything else.
Thread TL;DR:
ID is op, nerf pl0x,.
Signed: Superego.
|
On August 03 2011 10:17 Chill wrote:
This aura of negativity is frustrating and it's something new to the Starcraft community. It's made me not want to cast, stream, post, basically... do anything.
i blame idra
|
The real big problem is linked to how a lot of people in the internet, with the anonymity to speak all they want, think that they are experts and better than everyone else, aggravated by the disrespectful way these same people always behavior.
And this doesn't mean that we shouldn't criticize one player when he play a bad game or does some silly mistake. But this critique must be respectful.
|
On August 03 2011 22:53 State wrote:
Mobs are fickle. Just ignore hate, it isn't worth your time.
Granted, if you don't feed the trolls they starve to death; however, hateful people, in my opinion, should not be ignored. It's like condoning their bad manners.
Some of you have mentioned you don't even want to stream due to the BM. That shouldn't be. You're in SC (or any other RTS) to have fun. Why let the minority ruin that for you?
If enough people in the SC community regard BM unfavorably, it wouldn't be as prevalent as it is; however, I've witnessed casters themselves being totally BM toward players and the stream chat is all "OMG he's so funny!"
It's up to those of us who don't think hurtful remarks are funny, to change the situation by refusing to tolerate BM.
|
On August 04 2011 08:35 Carush wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 10:17 Chill wrote:
This aura of negativity is frustrating and it's something new to the Starcraft community. It's made me not want to cast, stream, post, basically... do anything. i blame idra
Idra isn't new to the community. I think the main thing is that a lot of people are following SC2, and some of them are younger and have a pretty reactionary memory. Everyone is really good or really bad based on their latest set, which isn't the case and I think most people who post those sorts of comments know that. Games are usually described in extreme terms, whether they're good or bad. I just lower every accolade thrown at things. This match is the best thing ever -> this game is good and probably both players have above average macro/micro. This game is horrible -> it's mediocre, etc.
|
On August 03 2011 22:37 sudzy wrote:
I normally don't open the chat on streams. I have a hard time relating to the internet troll crowd.
I can always find things to critisize, no problem there, but the attitude of the critisizm is what blows my mind. It's not "Ooo how could he miss that force field!" It's more like "OMG what a complete idiot! This guy blows! Uninstall retard!!!!!"
I think this is relates to low self esteem and insecurity/frustration in real life venting out with anonymity.
Really it's an indictment on youth culture in general, not just the internet or gaming.
This is very well said, and exactly how I see the situation. Starcraft is a social group, and in social groups position and status is extremely important. Doctors have found actually that the effects of stress on the body (which is devastating over time) is radically decreased in those who feel successfull, even if that success is only within their hobby or social circle. So do not underestimate how seriously people take themselves when it comes to their knowlege or skill with starcraft... you can definitely see it even here in tl some times
|
Who reads chat on streams? Honestly, it's the dregs of the viewership in there. Their life is terrible so they try and make themselves feel better by acting like they're better than everyone.
|
On August 03 2011 22:38 meRz wrote:
I fully agree.
It's saddening to see really, it's turned away most of the pro players from forums like TL. It's not only for matches or casters, it's also whenever people post, there's just so much hate and flame it's ridiculous. Back in the "old" BW days, a semi-pro could go onto the strategy forum and write useful advice to people asking for help. These days it doesn't really matter who you are, if you're not IdrA, HuK or Tyler, your opinion means shit and you get flamed most of the time. This is why you rarely, if ever, see pros post in the strategy forum anymore.
Agreed. It's really sad to see pros somewhat shy away from the community. One thing I love so much about E-Sports is how accessible the players are. If I really like Tyler I can message him and tell him what I think about him and know there's a pretty good chance he'll see what I said, as opposed to 'Real sports' where if I wanted to get in touch with Peyton Manning to tell him what I thought about him, sure I could write him or tweet him but would he see it? Most likely not, and that's what makes E-Sports so amazing is how 'real' and accessible these guys are.
On the other hand I certainly see why pro players would shy away from major community conversation hubs like TL. The amount of senseless flaming and hate there is towards some players is pathetic. Look at a guy like Incontrol; I am biased here because I love the guy but he's the perfect example. This guy does SO much for E-Sports. He plays the game at the very highest level, he casted and was the face of a HUGE Starleague in the NASL [Not to mention playing in it too]; he is a pillar on one of the most popular Star 2 web shows out there in SOTG, the guy is always down to sign an autograph for the fans or take a picture. I mean, this guy argued for players sacrificing being 100% comfortable to be more accessable to the FANS. How can you not love everything this guy does for the community, but for some reason some of the community finds a reason to hate him.
The problem wouldn't be nearly as bad if the criticism was at least constructive but for the most part it's just senseless hating: 'Wow that guy said that? He's a fucking moron' or what seems to be gaining popularity is the unusually mean personal attacks that have nothing to do with Star 2 like 'Wow that guys girlfriend is totally fucking ugly' So, I can without a doubt see why pros wouldn't want to log on to forums or chats and see it filled up with that garbage. I guess the sentiment I'm trying to get to the community is we should be overwhelmingly positive to these guys that put out all this content we love so much, or give everything they have to play this game at the highest level, not hating on them. That serves to only further distance the pros from the fans.
|
I for one stopped going into stream chats around the end of last year and always stay away from any type of YouTube comments etc. I think people want to be talked about and get noticed so they act up thinking that they are somehow a "cool" person when other people "lol" at them so they just don't ever stop. I honestly also think many people who mess with stream chats and sit around messaging pro players would stop if nobody ever gave them attention but I think that's impossible anyways since someone will always laugh at them. Seems the same in all online communities though, not just ours. At least on TL we have amazing mods that aren't dumb-asses, they all do there jobs well so hopefully one day it will be "clean" enough around here for pro's to make time to post more.
|
It's true man, but dont u remember middle school? People do stupid stuff for attention.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
