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On July 30 2011 13:04 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 12:59 nukeazerg wrote:
So if MLG makes 3 million plus in online revenue they better raise their prizes by 300,000 dollars at least. NASL has 400,000 in prize money, so MLG needs to step up. That's because NASL apparently didn't spend a dime to improve production values. When you rent satellite trucks, create a traveling venue, and provide computers and consoles for literally hundreds of players, costs can get pretty high compared to a relatively stationary event. It also shows since MLG seems like a much more presentable face of esports comparatively.
MLG also has to pay a much larger collection of employees.
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On July 30 2011 12:57 dabom88 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 12:53 Ribbon wrote:On July 30 2011 12:42 Telcontar wrote:On July 30 2011 12:32 Ribbon wrote:On July 30 2011 07:29 hellsan631 wrote:
What we don't need is for someone to shove t-shirts down our throats, products to buy, and being told that if your not buying, your not helping. Saying these things makes the value of your brand go down, and makes you seem a little bit obtuse. If you're not buying, you're not helping. It's a fact. Stop being entitled. It's not like they're taking away the option to watch TOTALLY FUCKING FREE or anything. MLG will succeed or fail, not due to the amount of people that throw money at you, but because of your sponsorships and viewer numbers. .... It doesn't matter how many people buy your product? Wha? (Which is something that you cannot ask directly for.) Increased viewer numbers (premium or not), will increase sponsorship interest, which will in turn help generate that 3 million you are asking for. Quick, how many viewers to you need to pull $3 million/year in sponsorship money? Jesus christ, people are self-entitled. How dare MLG ask more people to buy their products? How dare they adjust their spending based on their revenue? Assholes, clearly. You're missing the subtlety of the issue being discussed here. No one is faulting MLG for asking for more subscriptions but the manner in which Sundance has done so. Holding the prizepool for ransom is not the way to go for many people. Even if it's 100% true and anything short of 100k subscriptions mean a possible decrease in the prizepool, no one likes being presented with ultimatums. Is it an ultimatum or is it a fact? Show nested quote +Sundance wrote:
"if that number is to high than I need to cut prize money next year."
Whether intentional or not, that sounds like a threat to me. If it wasn't, he definitely could have phrased it better.
No it doesn't. It sounds like a stated fact.
A threat would be worded:
"I want to see 100,000 new subscriptions, or else I'm lowering the prize pool."
The fact is that:
"If we can't get 100,000 new subscriptions, then I need to lower the prize pool."
One sentence is a direct threat, the other conveys a necessary action based on results.
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Both sound like threats to me, I don't even know how many unique viewers the SC2+Halo+Black Ops streams get, I hope it's at least 300,000 as I can't see half of the viewers buying subscriptions.
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Increasing the number of subscribers not only directly increases their revenue from paid subscriptions, but also proves to advertisers that they are able to get a huge viewership and hence, increases their viability to advertisers thereby increasing said revenue too. MLG may have had serious production issues in Dallas, but MLG Columbus has been excellent and I believe that we can trust MLG and Sundance value the production quality as much as we do. However, the costs of maintaining such high production qualities will be high as well, which is what increased revenue will be needed for.
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I appreciate the posts and responses Mr Sundance. 99.9 percent of the people in this thread most likely have no idea how hard or just how to even run a company at all. I do admit i enjoy some of the numbers random posters come up with and claim this and that.
I agree that if you can't pull real numbers or real money it will indeed prove that this is in fact a niche company and you won't be able to make a real push as a main stream company. It would be phenomenal to see MLG go international and run multiple leagues and ladders as well as international events.
I believe his intentions in his tweet were misunderstood by most people. If he can't pull these kind of numbers there is no chance of this being what he want/expects it to turn into. I would love to see MLG be a premier organization and they are a great company already. I have 3 real life friends employed by them and they all love it. ( shout out to Dave, Josh, and Galen).
Sundance obviously thinks this could be huge and is riding a lot on that fact. He knows they can and will obtain these numbers most likely. If he cant he is wrong. I don't know why you would consider his tweets a threat as opposed to just an honest fact. If they can't grow then obviously they will either level out or have to shrink to still be able to do what they do.
I love that you are involved with the community and try your best to be involved. I know it is hard to be involved with everything let alone coming to community sites to defend your self. I for one support you and MLG and will be at all your East Coast events.
Keep up the great work MLG and keep pushing for bigger and better things. I honestly believe you will do more then even you expect if your events continue to be as good as they have been. I have a strong hunch great things will come in the future.
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On July 30 2011 10:13 GreatHate wrote:
iNcontroL I'm a fan of your SC2 personality but you really need to take another approach to the whole "troll" thing. You constantly acknowledge and call people out on your stream and webshows for trolling, yet you actively participate in it.
I absolutely agree. The posts he has made in this thread really makes him look bad. And Sundance seems very desperate by posting this on the teamliquid forums, I mean, MLG has so many companies sponsoring them. Where does this money go?
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On July 29 2011 22:45 Hassybaby wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2011 22:38 nihlon wrote:On July 29 2011 22:26 enecateReAP wrote:
Hey guys!
Give me $1million and I'll create a tournament with a bigger prize pool than MLGs... Do people think that all of that imaginary million would be profit? Lol. Seems like people like to ignore the fact that it cost a lot of money as well to organize what MLG is doing. Edit: meant to write something... Exactly, getting the venue itself would cost a couple hundred thousand
It doesn't cost near a couple hundred thousand.
http://www.anaheimconventioncenter.com/section.cfm?id=16
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On July 30 2011 14:45 Odyssey wrote:
I appreciate the posts and responses Mr Sundance. 99.9 percent of the people in this thread most likely have no idea how hard or just how to even run a company at all. I do admit i enjoy some of the numbers random posters come up with and claim this and that.
We don't need to run a company to know you can't talk to your current or potential future customer base like he does and expect to be successful. There's a VERY REAL reason PR jobs exist. He talks about legitimizing esports/MLG. Well...it starts by acting like a legitimate company.
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On July 30 2011 14:31 Nemireck wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 12:57 dabom88 wrote:On July 30 2011 12:53 Ribbon wrote:On July 30 2011 12:42 Telcontar wrote:On July 30 2011 12:32 Ribbon wrote:On July 30 2011 07:29 hellsan631 wrote:
What we don't need is for someone to shove t-shirts down our throats, products to buy, and being told that if your not buying, your not helping. Saying these things makes the value of your brand go down, and makes you seem a little bit obtuse. If you're not buying, you're not helping. It's a fact. Stop being entitled. It's not like they're taking away the option to watch TOTALLY FUCKING FREE or anything. MLG will succeed or fail, not due to the amount of people that throw money at you, but because of your sponsorships and viewer numbers. .... It doesn't matter how many people buy your product? Wha? (Which is something that you cannot ask directly for.) Increased viewer numbers (premium or not), will increase sponsorship interest, which will in turn help generate that 3 million you are asking for. Quick, how many viewers to you need to pull $3 million/year in sponsorship money? Jesus christ, people are self-entitled. How dare MLG ask more people to buy their products? How dare they adjust their spending based on their revenue? Assholes, clearly. You're missing the subtlety of the issue being discussed here. No one is faulting MLG for asking for more subscriptions but the manner in which Sundance has done so. Holding the prizepool for ransom is not the way to go for many people. Even if it's 100% true and anything short of 100k subscriptions mean a possible decrease in the prizepool, no one likes being presented with ultimatums. Is it an ultimatum or is it a fact? Sundance wrote:
"if that number is to high than I need to cut prize money next year."
Whether intentional or not, that sounds like a threat to me. If it wasn't, he definitely could have phrased it better. No it doesn't. It sounds like a stated fact. A threat would be worded: "I want to see 100,000 new subscriptions, or else I'm lowering the prize pool." The fact is that: "If we can't get 100,000 new subscriptions, then I need to lower the prize pool." One sentence is a direct threat, the other conveys a necessary action based on results.
Either way I would much rather him advertise then try to force people to subscribe.
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A "pro" gamer attacking the major pro-gaming organization in North America, when they are trying to advertise their product and esports. Got to love it.
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On July 30 2011 16:06 Sharuko wrote:
A "pro" gamer attacking the major pro-gaming organization in North America, when they are trying to advertise their product and esports. Got to love it.
lol "attacking".
You're perfectly justified expressing what you think are faults within an organization. Just because they hold a tournament doesn't mean they're above reproach.
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Sundance here is how you save 50,000 dollars. Get rid of onsite open bracket. Just hold that online. Now you don't have to ship a load of computers and have onsite staff to monitor these people, and you can expand the viewing area to sell more tickets. You could even stream the open brackets to make some cash.
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On July 30 2011 02:41 SundanceMLG wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2011 14:20 iNcontroL wrote:
Uhhh if you give me a million dollars I will raise the prizepool??? Wow! That is amazing! Months ago you gave me shit about the prize pool and now I'm putting a simple and obtainable goal out there for the entire community and you give me shit again - and that's fine. I still respect you and appreciate what you've done and will continue to do for the scene. My question is this - if the number was 50,000 would you take an issue with my approach? How about 15,000? What if I didn't say a thing and just watched my spreadsheets populate with numbers and kept the community in the dark? Shouldn't the people who love this have some insight into what is needed for success? You're either in or you're out. $30 a year from 100,000 people makes this company a real business and not just a passion project from a guy with a hippy name who refuses to quit. $30 a year from 10,000 people means that we're all wrong and there isn't enough fan support to sustain a business of scale. Less than a dime a day from less than 10% of the people who visit our site over the course of an event weekend allows me to flip a switch and change next year to a structure that supports 24 live events & 28 meaningful ladders. 52 competitions with nearly 2 million dollars of prize money and stipends. Again - I don't care if you think I'm an asshole or a money grubbing prick. I just want to find out if what we do is actually meaningful to enough of you to step up.
YOU ARE A FUCKING GOD
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I love watching the growth of e-sports, it's getting bigger and better every day!
PS. I really hope incontrol gets knocked out of group stages so we can finally see his name so away. That kind of comment makes me so mad, almost like he doesn't want people to buy passes so the amount of money he could probably win stays the same. Why would you not support a comment that can only make you get more money for your profession?
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If only they could release the replays if you paid. They could do it with an online replay viewer, or with Blizzard's help.
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On July 30 2011 02:41 SundanceMLG wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2011 14:20 iNcontroL wrote:
Uhhh if you give me a million dollars I will raise the prizepool??? Wow! That is amazing! Months ago you gave me shit about the prize pool and now I'm putting a simple and obtainable goal out there for the entire community and you give me shit again - and that's fine. I still respect you and appreciate what you've done and will continue to do for the scene. My question is this - if the number was 50,000 would you take an issue with my approach? How about 15,000? What if I didn't say a thing and just watched my spreadsheets populate with numbers and kept the community in the dark? Shouldn't the people who love this have some insight into what is needed for success? You're either in or you're out. $30 a year from 100,000 people makes this company a real business and not just a passion project from a guy with a hippy name who refuses to quit. $30 a year from 10,000 people means that we're all wrong and there isn't enough fan support to sustain a business of scale. Less than a dime a day from less than 10% of the people who visit our site over the course of an event weekend allows me to flip a switch and change next year to a structure that supports 24 live events & 28 meaningful ladders. 52 competitions with nearly 2 million dollars of prize money and stipends. Again - I don't care if you think I'm an asshole or a money grubbing prick. I just want to find out if what we do is actually meaningful to enough of you to step up.
OWNED lol
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I still hate how SC2 is on the mainstage and yet Halo has 2x the prize pool and Black Ops has 4x the prize pool. Seriously WTF. Just because MLG was founded on and by "Halo bros" doesn't mean the main stage, most popular game should have the lowest prize pool. It just doesn't make any sense
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On July 30 2011 16:32 Halcyondaze wrote:
I still hate how SC2 is on the mainstage and yet Halo has 2x the prize pool and Black Ops has 4x the prize pool. Seriously WTF. Just because MLG was founded on and by "Halo bros" doesn't mean the main stage, most popular game should have the lowest prize pool. It just doesn't make any sense
blackops and halo have higher prize pools because they're team games
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They have enough prize money but it's not distributed properly between the regular events and the national championship. Also sc2 should have more of share in the prize pool than halo and blackops.
I don't know if 100k is reasonable. Seems like a pretty ridiculous number to me but i hope im wrong.
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On July 30 2011 16:35 thatsundowner wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 16:32 Halcyondaze wrote:
I still hate how SC2 is on the mainstage and yet Halo has 2x the prize pool and Black Ops has 4x the prize pool. Seriously WTF. Just because MLG was founded on and by "Halo bros" doesn't mean the main stage, most popular game should have the lowest prize pool. It just doesn't make any sense blackops and halo have higher prize pools because they're team games
I realize that. But that doesn't disprove the fact that they are VASTLY less popular than SC2 and bring MUCH more income to MLG than the other two games.
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EPT
