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I feel like a hipster...I purchased my pass before this prize pool talk.
Myself and others that I know LOVE it when it's MLG weekend. The whole time we are just sitting, talking with each other and LOVING the whole tournament experience. MLG is amazing, and I appreciate everything you're doing.
Take my small amount of money. I'd rather give it to you then give it to Starbucks for mediocre coffee priced too high.
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On July 30 2011 16:37 Halcyondaze wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 16:35 thatsundowner wrote:On July 30 2011 16:32 Halcyondaze wrote: I still hate how SC2 is on the mainstage and yet Halo has 2x the prize pool and Black Ops has 4x the prize pool. Seriously WTF. Just because MLG was founded on and by "Halo bros" doesn't mean the main stage, most popular game should have the lowest prize pool. It just doesn't make any sense blackops and halo have higher prize pools because they're team games I realize that. But that doesn't disprove the fact that they are VASTLY less popular than SC2 and bring MUCH more income to MLG than the other two games.
this maybe wasn't necessarily the case when the prize money was set, and it's probably all been budgeted out by this point
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Seriously, this sort of thing always confirms my suspicion that people, especially Starcraft fans, are really really dumb.
Suck it up and buy a pass. It's cheap and it helps everyone. MLGs always lose money and you can help make them successful.
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This is a great value, and it's dumb to be mad at a business wanting you to give them money. T hey're dumping free content at people and being transparent about their goals, something that should really be earning them some respect from the community. Yes, they want money. They are trying to be a sustainable business. A sustainable MLG means that it keeps happening for years and years to come. That's great for fans, and great for players.
EDIT: @incontrol- Okay, I am your fan but seriously. You were the public face of a league that didn't even have free VODs, nor did the NASL have free HQ. That was also trying to get people to pay an organization money.
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i just wanted to say Thank You Sundance, for everything you're doing and everything you've done. If my fiance and i didn't work all weekend we both would be buying passes.
i was definitely one of those people who shit all over MLG when crazy terrible things were happening, but from the little i was able to catch tonight after i got home from work, things are looking up, and i really hope that you're able to get enough memberships~
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I'm definitely planning on buying a gold pass when I get out of work, just wondering though - if we are unable to watch live are we able to watch the VODs somehow with the pass?
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On July 30 2011 16:25 nukeazerg wrote: Sundance here is how you save 50,000 dollars. Get rid of onsite open bracket. Just hold that online. Now you don't have to ship a load of computers and have onsite staff to monitor these people, and you can expand the viewing area to sell more tickets. You could even stream the open brackets to make some cash.
Yup. Just kill 90% of the festivities of the event. So then we can hold the event in sundance's basement.
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On July 30 2011 05:30 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 05:26 Domination wrote: Incontrol, the man who hyped NASL as the greatest thing since sliced bread and how we need to support it with our wallets, is mad at another man's "business ploy". Not sure what to say about that but I am certainly entertained. Not sure why hyping nasl means i cannot be critical of other leagues. When i encouraged people to support nasl I said so we can do more of them... Not to raise the prizepool. Read syndances post... He essentially meant to say "so we can do more mlgs" not anything about the prizepool.
I don't think you have any ground to say what he meant to say, nor how you know how his business is run.
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On July 30 2011 16:41 thatsundowner wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 16:37 Halcyondaze wrote:On July 30 2011 16:35 thatsundowner wrote:On July 30 2011 16:32 Halcyondaze wrote: I still hate how SC2 is on the mainstage and yet Halo has 2x the prize pool and Black Ops has 4x the prize pool. Seriously WTF. Just because MLG was founded on and by "Halo bros" doesn't mean the main stage, most popular game should have the lowest prize pool. It just doesn't make any sense blackops and halo have higher prize pools because they're team games I realize that. But that doesn't disprove the fact that they are VASTLY less popular than SC2 and bring MUCH more income to MLG than the other two games. this maybe wasn't necessarily the case when the prize money was set, and it's probably all been budgeted out by this point
That's probably the case. Sc2 has EXPLODED way bigger than I think anyone expected it to, and the fact that MLG is doing more and more to be increasingly supportive of SC2 with each passing MLG is a great thing for the community, and shows that they know how to run a business that can last (longevity has been an issue in a lot of esports leagues, lets be honest). Why are people upset that MLG continues to get better and better?
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On July 30 2011 05:35 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 05:31 Serene wrote:On July 30 2011 05:25 iNcontroL wrote: No. When you get more money you reinvest in areas that need imporovement first. The current prizepool doesn't alienate anyone. If they hit 100k dubs they won't be like " finally! Now that we raised 30 million dollars we can increase the prize pool 10k " if you think thatnus how it works you are A Damn fool Good job. You understand basic business practices. However, MLG has fantastic production value as is. So that rules out reinvesting into that. That leaves two avenues, both of which Sundance pointed out. 1. Increasing the prize pool for each individual event and for each game across the board. 2. Increasing the number of events held and innovating by including new leagues and games into the circuit. Sundance has mentioned both of these. While Twitter may not have been the best choice, I fail to see your criticism on this. I mean, how does this differ from you pushing NASL HD passes and hyping it up? If you're going to point out that you didn't say if you buy them we'll have a bigger prize pool next season. Then I'll just use your advice. When you have money invest it into this that need improvement. Like a new soundperson and overall production value. I think you missed the other twitter message where Sundance threatened to decrease the prize pool if they don't reach their target. In either case, many of us are interested in knowing the approx. subscriber base and would appreciate some transparency. Twitter and Facebook status/walls are terrible ways of making a point and sharing such things. Wording is everything.
Or maybe Sundance was saying that, since they will be increasing the amount of live events held within a year, if they do not meat a certain subscriber base, they will be required to lower prize pools?
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On July 30 2011 02:41 SundanceMLG wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2011 14:20 iNcontroL wrote: Uhhh if you give me a million dollars I will raise the prizepool??? Wow! That is amazing! Months ago you gave me shit about the prize pool and now I'm putting a simple and obtainable goal out there for the entire community and you give me shit again - and that's fine. I still respect you and appreciate what you've done and will continue to do for the scene. My question is this - if the number was 50,000 would you take an issue with my approach? How about 15,000? What if I didn't say a thing and just watched my spreadsheets populate with numbers and kept the community in the dark? Shouldn't the people who love this have some insight into what is needed for success? You're either in or you're out. $30 a year from 100,000 people makes this company a real business and not just a passion project from a guy with a hippy name who refuses to quit. $30 a year from 10,000 people means that we're all wrong and there isn't enough fan support to sustain a business of scale. Less than a dime a day from less than 10% of the people who visit our site over the course of an event weekend allows me to flip a switch and change next year to a structure that supports 24 live events & 28 meaningful ladders. 52 competitions with nearly 2 million dollars of prize money and stipends. Again - I don't care if you think I'm an asshole or a money grubbing prick. I just want to find out if what we do is actually meaningful to enough of you to step up.
I busted out my debit card after this, <3 frank honesty.
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On July 30 2011 05:30 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 05:26 Domination wrote: Incontrol, the man who hyped NASL as the greatest thing since sliced bread and how we need to support it with our wallets, is mad at another man's "business ploy". Not sure what to say about that but I am certainly entertained. Not sure why hyping nasl means i cannot be critical of other leagues. When i encouraged people to support nasl I said so we can do more of them... Not to raise the prizepool. Read syndances post... He essentially meant to say "so we can do more mlgs" not anything about the prizepool.
Do more of them, improve quality, and just make the whole experience better for both the players and the fans, right? How is that not what MLG is doing right now?
And NASL had terrible free LQ streams, and no free VODs. That was also totally a ploy to get money, except it was slightly less transparent. Now I don't object to this at all! I have 12month MLG membership, a season 1 nasl pass, and will be buying a s2 pass. Making a business work and be sustainable is hard and takes money. I get that, and do what I can to support esports.
Why are you attacking a guy who is trying to do essentially the same thing NASL is doing? The only real difference is MLG is being more up front about it.
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United States22883 Posts
On July 29 2011 14:20 iNcontroL wrote: Uhhh if you give me a million dollars I will raise the prizepool??? Wow! That is amazing! It's certainly better than begging people to buy passes for an unaired, unrefined product for the sake of ESPORTS. MLG at least has a stated goal/incentive, and some history behind their work. Surely even you can't miss the irony of your statement.
You don't like losing arguments on the internet, we get it. But you really can't expect to carry this one through with any semblance of a viable argument. Ask IdrA or Tyler or any other logical forum addict you can think of. They'll tell you you're being hypocritical on this. Once upon a time you could criticize MLG for this or asking people to buy shirts. That time has long since passed.
Anyways, I ended up getting the Gold Membership. I'm mostly watching EVO all weekend so I want the VODs, plus I decided to buy something from MLG after how well Columbus went.
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On July 30 2011 05:15 sanddbox_tl wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 04:41 Leafren wrote: Isn't Incontrol the guy that's always arguing on podcasts that everyone should act professional at all times etc? I'd say comments like that don't live up to his own standards. I think it's evident Sundance tries to make esports work and grow, so if you don't agree with his methods at least discuss it in a grown-up manner. Incontrol is pretty much the most perfect definition of a hypocrite you'll ever find. He makes racist remarks about Indians, makes jokes about rape, and commits numbers of other horrendous PR mistakes and then turns around the next minute and criticizes people for doing the same. Usually when someone brings it up he'll apologize and say that he's different and then be a total asshole the next day anyway. .
Basically just perfectly pegged incontrol in one paragraph wp
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Hopefully MLG doesn't turn into one of those big companies that just want your cash, this seems like an approach to it.
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On July 30 2011 17:14 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2011 14:20 iNcontroL wrote: Uhhh if you give me a million dollars I will raise the prizepool??? Wow! That is amazing! It's certainly better than begging people to buy passes for an unaired, unrefined product for the sake of ESPORTS. MLG at least has a stated goal/incentive, and some history behind their work. Surely even you can't miss the irony of your statement. You don't like losing arguments on the internet, we get it. But you really can't expect to carry this one through with any semblance of a viable argument. Ask IdrA or Tyler or any other logical forum addict you can think of. They'll tell you you're being hypocritical on this. Anyways, I ended up getting the Gold Membership. I'm mostly watching EVO all weekend so I want the VODs, plus I decided to buy something from MLG after how well Columbus went.
oh dear! how about actually trying to sell your product to consumers like a real company does?
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On July 30 2011 05:15 sanddbox_tl wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 04:41 Leafren wrote: Isn't Incontrol the guy that's always arguing on podcasts that everyone should act professional at all times etc? I'd say comments like that don't live up to his own standards. I think it's evident Sundance tries to make esports work and grow, so if you don't agree with his methods at least discuss it in a grown-up manner. Incontrol is pretty much the most perfect definition of a hypocrite you'll ever find. He makes racist remarks about Indians, makes jokes about rape, and commits numbers of other horrendous PR mistakes and then turns around the next minute and criticizes people for doing the same. Usually when someone brings it up he'll apologize and say that he's different and then be a total asshole the next day anyway. .
This post is an accurate reflection of my opinions. I can't believe the gall InControl has to come in here and do what he did. He accuses people of moneygrubbing when he is perhaps the MOST moneygrubbing person in the whole industry. Have we forgotten the gosucoaching debacle? What about the gosuguide? Incontrol has a history of promising big for some service, getting some money based off of his fame, and running off. And his fame is because of his non stop marketing, not because of the non-existant results he's posting.
How dare you attack MLG, and TotalBiscuit for that matter. For shame sir. You should instead look up to Sundance for being a professional businessman who follows through with his commitments instead of shirking his promises and making jokes of his blunders on podcasts.
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Incontrol: At least Sundance has delivered on his promises and produced a really good product. While NASL ended up having OK moments and redeeming itself in the end no-one involved handled themselves anywhere near as well as Sundance. As Jibba pointed out there wasn't empty hype and bullshit promises like there was with the NASL. I've bought subscriptions to MLG and NASL and I regret one of them. Guess which one? Like it's been said it's absurd for you to be talking like this given your own track record.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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On July 30 2011 17:28 iNcontroL wrote: Wat lol
Go and actually try to win some games please instead of trolling TL forums.
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