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People like to make it good vs bad. So no matter the subject the way it's perceived is what really matters. People perceive EG to be shady and underhanded, and they perceive TSL coach Lee to be a beacon of honorable purity. EG is clearly at fault for "sniping" a player from TSL that TSL developed for not even a whole year. Coach Lee was taken advantage of by the Evil Geniuses and the hope of his team Puma left. Coach Lee cried, everyone points a finger at EG........SHAME, how could you be so business minded and cut throat. It's ruining the sport.
Reality is often different than perception. EG approaches Puma, Puma show's interest, Puma wants to be the one to break the news, coach Lee is cordial with Puma, goes immediately to the press, press spins it, and community accepts that EG did something wrong, even if no one is sure what they did wrong, or what they were supposed to do, EG Alex tries to make nice, community now believes he must be guilty because he apologized, but his apology sounded to defensive, so he's not really sorry, and now he is even more shady and underhanded. Bottom line Puma is making a ton more money, and increasing his personal brand in a way TSL could not do for him.
Lots of complaining and little is said about how they should have done it. It's all what you perceive to be reality.
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Feel really bad for Mama Bear, but EG isn't exactly doing anything wrong by just going to a player handing them a business card and pique his interest.
Still Mama Bear has done so much for Esports it's hard to not feel bad for him for losing another pillar player when TSL has been falling apart quite abit recently.
Mama Bear fighting!
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I found this whole statement to be a bunch of crap and cheap politic measures.
Alex wrote a bunch of paragraphs to clarify, explain and justify EG's procedure while defending the position the organization took regarding the situation. This being said, the fact they are also publicly apologizing really throws them off.
The fact of the matter is EG tampered with a player before approaching the team he was working for at that time. That's both unethical and immoral, and Alex knows it. That's why he bothered to write a wall of text. Trying in a respectful way to elude people into thinking they took the "appropriate" measures. But then this alone could be considered offensive towards the Korean progaming teams and organizations, so they "faint" a public apology to Mr. Lee (not TSL) to make people happy.
Not your finest moment Alex.
Still, the best thing about SC2 is the fact that having a team tag on the nick name is purely a publicity measure. With the exception of the most notable figures in the game, they earn their fans individually, not for their teams. So I'll keep rooting for my favorite players regardless if they are in EG or not.
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@Kiy0
I'm curious, I want the opinion of someone who feels the opposite of me on this matter, I don't feel that EG really had any blame here, but I'm wondering what would upset the sizable portion of this community that feels Eg is in the wrong more, EG not saying anything at all, or issuing the apology that Alex posted??
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On July 26 2011 09:21 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 09:20 farvacola wrote:On July 26 2011 09:17 Shiori wrote:On July 26 2011 09:16 aderum wrote:On July 26 2011 09:15 zeru wrote:
Still no apology to milkis? Extremely disappointed. Does he have to apologies for having a different opinion then him and debating that with him? What? he deserves an apology after being accused of dishonest journalism and defamation, to say the least. Well after the information that has come to light, Milikis effectively promulgated and defended outright incorrect information. Maybe not with his translation, but with his decision to appear on Lo3 his side was clear. ....What?
What? EG said they talked to Puma And They were aware that the transition of Puma To EG from TSL was in good accord.
So you mis-reported the story that TSL's Coach may have blown out of proportion because he lost one of his best players.
But couldn't afford to pay him.
Puma said himself he is happier with EG and wish everyone to support him and EG.
He wasn't under contract.
and he wished to be paid a salary(now he is)
Whats wrong with the situation in your eyes/... @_@
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On July 27 2011 12:23 originalred04 wrote:
@Kiy0
I'm curious, I want the opinion of someone who feels the opposite of me on this matter, I don't feel that EG really had any blame here, but I'm wondering what would upset the sizable portion of this community that feels Eg is in the wrong more, EG not saying anything at all, or issuing the apology that Alex posted??
What Alex just posted wasn't an apology. It was a wall of text justifying their position under the guise of one.
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I can't really make my mind up about this issue.
On one hand, I find it hard to believe that EG isn't aware of Korean business ethics. Particularly seeing as they're involved in a Korean dominated industry. If they weren't aware, it makes EG look bad as a business. If they were, it makes them look underhanded. Either way EG don't look good.
On the second hand, Lee hasn't really helped himself. Much like Wheat, I've ran gaming communities before, and whilst the level of involvement doesn't at all parallel Lee's contributions to TSL, I remember the personal involvement and the feelings that can get in the way of making straight decisions. Although I can relate on some level, it doesn't bode well for Lee's reputation professionally.
There's so many factors, too many to list (I only have 2 hands), and it all boils down to this issue questioning the legitimecy of Esports. Professionalism. Code of conduct. And all the while I can't help but feel that people may be overreacting?
Hopefully the issue doesn't expand much further.
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On July 27 2011 12:35 LegendaryZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 12:23 originalred04 wrote:
@Kiy0
I'm curious, I want the opinion of someone who feels the opposite of me on this matter, I don't feel that EG really had any blame here, but I'm wondering what would upset the sizable portion of this community that feels Eg is in the wrong more, EG not saying anything at all, or issuing the apology that Alex posted?? What Alex just posted wasn't an apology. It was a wall of text justifying their position under the guise of one.
Well it was kind of apologetic but the tone I felt is more like,
"I am not sure why mama bear is so worked up over this when we didn't take any drastic measure to get PuMa, we just tried to pique his interests and he was interested"
This is not wrong on my account by all means of course but that's pretty much what I read as EG's PoV
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I feel that the OP was in essence very poor constructed for a public apology, it neither apologizes nor does it shift the blame. I study public relations and if you had any experience in the field, you'd realize that you cant do both in 1 release. It just makes no sense. Alex basically said in 1 post:
EG and PuMa are not to blame - they did the right thing - they'll always do the right thing, blames Mr. Lee - but proceeds to apologize for not doing the right thing - stating that it was the right move in that case - then proceeds to apologize while stating they are right?
What?
Personally, I don't buy the post, in part due to the contradictions present as well as the relatively obvious bias that Alex would have. The fact that EG approached PuMa first goes against EG's said practice of speaking with the managers first.
What do I think happened? I think EG saw PuMa, drooled over PuMa and realized that he wasn't really on a contract, decided to talk to him first to pique his interest and make a move before he becomes TSL contracted player.
Just my 2 cents.
Edit: typo!
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On July 27 2011 12:42 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 12:35 LegendaryZ wrote:On July 27 2011 12:23 originalred04 wrote:
@Kiy0
I'm curious, I want the opinion of someone who feels the opposite of me on this matter, I don't feel that EG really had any blame here, but I'm wondering what would upset the sizable portion of this community that feels Eg is in the wrong more, EG not saying anything at all, or issuing the apology that Alex posted?? What Alex just posted wasn't an apology. It was a wall of text justifying their position under the guise of one. Well it was kind of apologetic but the tone I felt is more like, "I am not sure why mama bear is so worked up over this when we didn't take any drastic measure to get PuMa, we just tried to pique his interests and he was interested" This is not wrong on my account by all means of course but that's pretty much what I read as EG's PoV
"We're sorry you were offended, but we didn't do anything wrong." isn't an apology. Either you did do something wrong, in which case just admit what you did wrong and apologize for it or you didn't do anything wrong, in which case what do you have to apologize about in the first place? Any apology attached to "but what we did was fine" is pretty insincere to me.
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you guys need to get over this issue.
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On July 27 2011 12:42 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 12:35 LegendaryZ wrote:On July 27 2011 12:23 originalred04 wrote:
@Kiy0
I'm curious, I want the opinion of someone who feels the opposite of me on this matter, I don't feel that EG really had any blame here, but I'm wondering what would upset the sizable portion of this community that feels Eg is in the wrong more, EG not saying anything at all, or issuing the apology that Alex posted?? What Alex just posted wasn't an apology. It was a wall of text justifying their position under the guise of one. Well it was kind of apologetic but the tone I felt is more like, "I am not sure why mama bear is so worked up over this when we didn't take any drastic measure to get PuMa, we just tried to pique his interests and he was interested" This is not wrong on my account by all means of course but that's pretty much what I read as EG's PoV
Yo that bear shit is creepy as fuck, please cut it out lol. You can insinuate Coach Lee is overprotective and emasculate him without sounding like a creeper.
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On July 27 2011 12:33 XRaDiiX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 09:21 Milkis wrote:On July 26 2011 09:20 farvacola wrote:On July 26 2011 09:17 Shiori wrote:On July 26 2011 09:16 aderum wrote:On July 26 2011 09:15 zeru wrote:
Still no apology to milkis? Extremely disappointed. Does he have to apologies for having a different opinion then him and debating that with him? What? he deserves an apology after being accused of dishonest journalism and defamation, to say the least. Well after the information that has come to light, Milikis effectively promulgated and defended outright incorrect information. Maybe not with his translation, but with his decision to appear on Lo3 his side was clear. ....What? What? EG said they talked to Puma And They were aware that the transition of Puma To EG from TSL was in good accord. So you mis-reported the story that TSL's Coach may have blown out of proportion because he lost one of his best players. But couldn't afford to pay him. Puma said himself he is happier with EG and wish everyone to support him and EG. He wasn't under contract. and he wished to be paid a salary(now he is) Whats wrong with the situation in your eyes/... @_@
he didn't "mis-report" anything. he just translated the korean articles. also don't include your own biases. Puma never said he is happier with EG. He hardly knows anyone from the team/organization. he just wants people to be optimistic about his transition to another team and continue to support him.
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Okay that was waaaaay too redundant but very glad you cleared that up Alex.
I think you made the point that PuMa was not signed at the time of the press releases nearly 10 times. But I guess it's important to stress.
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i have been a big fan of EG, so i guess i am a pretty biased but i feel like this was blown out of proportion =(
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On July 27 2011 12:58 StyLeD wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 12:42 Blasterion wrote:On July 27 2011 12:35 LegendaryZ wrote:On July 27 2011 12:23 originalred04 wrote:
@Kiy0
I'm curious, I want the opinion of someone who feels the opposite of me on this matter, I don't feel that EG really had any blame here, but I'm wondering what would upset the sizable portion of this community that feels Eg is in the wrong more, EG not saying anything at all, or issuing the apology that Alex posted?? What Alex just posted wasn't an apology. It was a wall of text justifying their position under the guise of one. Well it was kind of apologetic but the tone I felt is more like, "I am not sure why mama bear is so worked up over this when we didn't take any drastic measure to get PuMa, we just tried to pique his interests and he was interested" This is not wrong on my account by all means of course but that's pretty much what I read as EG's PoV Yo that bear shit is creepy as fuck, please cut it out lol. You can insinuate Coach Lee is overprotective and emasculate him without sounding like a creeper.
Coach lee is mama bear that's just the way it is, haven't you watched Hyung Joon becomes a Pro Gamer? Coach Lee's nick is Mama Bear
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I think the Koreans have a sense of entitlement that is very uncalled for. Yes, nobody can deny they were the best at Brood War, and yes they now produce most of the best SC2 players, but to look down on foreigners and run and cry to the media about lack of respect is very hypocritical. EG provided a better situation for PuMa fair and square, and it seems like Mr. Lee and any other Korean that is unhappy about this situation is just bitter about the fact that they were bested by a foreigner. If Mr. Lee is looking for respect, he went about it the absolute wrong way as he will no longer get any from me.
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On July 27 2011 12:11 DeaTH.1914 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 11:48 johanngrunt wrote:
I'm worried that EG is living up to the first word of their name instead of the second.
Has any other team ever had to make so many public apologies? EG shouldn't have had to apologize for anything and to anyone saying Milkis deserves an apology, that is laughable. The guy pretty much destroyed the public image of EG's business in one biased post. (I'm not saying Milkis is biased, however the article he translated obviously was and had apparently very little actual fact on the situation.) Alex had a great point, Milkis is a journalist regardless of getting paid or not and as a journalist you can and will be held accountable for covering a story with such blatant disregard. However I think after the discussion with Alex on WoC he will indeed be more careful before posting in these situations from now on. Anyways as for the actual situation, EG is totally in the right. The player was not under contract and therefore had no obligations to TSL. I do believe EG was fully intending on contacting the coach of TSL after PuMa had brought it up, however I believe this was unnecessary. The fact that the player was under no contractual obligations to me means EG has the right to discuss the issue with the player directly regardless of cultural and/or ethical differences.
He's a translator.
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On July 27 2011 13:03 JoeSchmoe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 12:33 XRaDiiX wrote:On July 26 2011 09:21 Milkis wrote:On July 26 2011 09:20 farvacola wrote:On July 26 2011 09:17 Shiori wrote:On July 26 2011 09:16 aderum wrote:On July 26 2011 09:15 zeru wrote:
Still no apology to milkis? Extremely disappointed. Does he have to apologies for having a different opinion then him and debating that with him? What? he deserves an apology after being accused of dishonest journalism and defamation, to say the least. Well after the information that has come to light, Milikis effectively promulgated and defended outright incorrect information. Maybe not with his translation, but with his decision to appear on Lo3 his side was clear. ....What? What? EG said they talked to Puma And They were aware that the transition of Puma To EG from TSL was in good accord. So you mis-reported the story that TSL's Coach may have blown out of proportion because he lost one of his best players. But couldn't afford to pay him. Puma said himself he is happier with EG and wish everyone to support him and EG. He wasn't under contract. and he wished to be paid a salary(now he is) Whats wrong with the situation in your eyes/... @_@ he didn't "mis-report" anything. he just translated the korean articles. also don't include your own biases. Puma never said he is happier with EG. He hardly knows anyone from the team/organization. he just wants people to be optimistic about his transition to another team and continue to support him.
I think it's more the fact that he defended his translation. If he had only translated and nothing more, then EG would be completely out of line to insult him, but as soon as Milkis decided to take a side in the matter, he opened himself up to criticism.
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Objectively - EG did nothing wrong
Subjectively - EG did something pretty immoral. Look at the state of TSL in Korea; they were losing players fast and one of their best remaining players wins the NASL. This gives momentum and hope for the Team but then EG comes along and shatters the momentum in TSL by taking their best player. Imagine the shock that the Team and Coach would experience. EG can argue that it was his decision and he was happy with it but still it's a bit inconsiderate of EG to do that. I don't disagree with them for trying to recuit Korean players but I honestly believe that they shouldn't have tried to recruit the Champion of a currently struggling team. I'm sure people can argue that it's not EG's problem but hey we're all human and we need to respect each other on an emotional level to succeed as a community.
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EPT
