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the innerworkings of mr.lee
Fruitdealer won season 1 GSL
TSL gain popularity
mr.lee super happy.
fruitdealer leaves TSL
trickster leaves TSL
mr.lee 
puma wins NASL
mr.lee feels gewd
puma leaves TSL
mr.lee >
If i was mr.lee i would be in rage. don't blame EG, but just the sheer drama mr.lee is in is quite disasterous. all his hardwork, gawn. and it's no one's fault but his. THat's even worse!
i hope mr.lee will fix his mistake from now on and not do anythign crazy with the korean teams.
being in such psycological distress can lead to bad things like the puma incident with going to PR right away.
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Here is how I see it:
I have a compagy and we're doing printed shirts and my company name is TSL
For all our employees we supply food, beds and we train them in making the best possible shirts!! The only downside is that I can't pay them since I don't make enough money and I can't contract my employees cause I don't know if my company will live long enough without the money.
and I have a competitor, the damn EG company that does the same shirt, just with bit less quality than I can make.
and they supply, food, beds and a lesser training BUT they will pay and contract.
I wonder where the applicants will go!!! hummm.......
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On July 27 2011 03:00 Konsume wrote:
Here is how I see it:
I have a compagy and we're doing printed shirts and my company name is TSL
For all our employees we supply food, beds and we train them in making the best possible shirts!! The only downside is that I can't pay them since I don't make enough money and I can't contract my employees cause I don't know if my company will live long enough without the money.
and I have a competitor, the damn EG company that does the same shirt, just with bit less quality than I can make.
and they supply, food, beds and a lesser training BUT they will pay and contract.
I wonder where the applicants will go!!! hummm.......
shouldn't be a *in house* team if u cant feed ur players. has he been starving those poor guys that play 10~12 hours for him?
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On July 27 2011 03:00 Konsume wrote:
Here is how I see it:
I have a compagy and we're doing printed shirts and my company name is TSL
For all our employees we supply food, beds and we train them in making the best possible shirts!! The only downside is that I can't pay them since I don't make enough money and I can't contract my employees cause I don't know if my company will live long enough without the money.
and I have a competitor, the damn EG company that does the same shirt, just with bit less quality than I can make.
and they supply, food, beds and a lesser training BUT they will pay and contract.
I wonder where the applicants will go!!! hummm.......
i dont know to who are you addresing this to
but in my case
I do not blame EG for taking the chances
and for PuMa to make a better living
i just hate it in personal term by the fact that EG taking TSL's hard work of raising PuMa
on the other note
some of your applicant stays in TSL shirt
namely Clide and SangHo :D
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Puma had an verbal contract or a contract by conduct with TSL. His compensation for training and playing fpr TSL in tournamants was free accomodation and maybe a small salary for his personal needs each week.
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Fair play to EG . But they knew full well what they were doing, they knew Pumas situation and scooped him before TSL could afford to pay him there selves. I maybe wrong but although he wasnt given a salary dont TSL provide him with a house to stay in, a bed to sleep in and food to eat? While he sits on his arse and plays a computer game all day? Thats alot to give to a player who has now reached his potential and with that has gone.
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For the record, I'd like all of you to know that we put a higher percentage of our gross revenue back into player support than almost any other team in the world.
I want a source on this, or calling this bullshit.
How could you possibly know the percent of gross revenue going to player support for every single SC2 team in the world?
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On July 27 2011 03:05 T1Sugar wrote:
Fair play to EG . But they knew full well what they were doing, they knew Pumas situation and scooped him before TSL could afford to pay him there selves. I maybe wrong but although he wasnt given a salary dont TSL provide him with a house to stay in, a bed to sleep in and food to eat? While he sits on his arse and plays a computer game all day? Thats alot to give to a player who has now reached his potential and with that has gone.
You're here on TL, and you're demoting professional gaming by implicating that its less of an occupation than any other job?
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On July 27 2011 03:07 Lokian wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 03:05 T1Sugar wrote:
Fair play to EG . But they knew full well what they were doing, they knew Pumas situation and scooped him before TSL could afford to pay him there selves. I maybe wrong but although he wasnt given a salary dont TSL provide him with a house to stay in, a bed to sleep in and food to eat? While he sits on his arse and plays a computer game all day? Thats alot to give to a player who has now reached his potential and with that has gone. You're here on TL, and you're demoting professional gaming by implicating that its less of an occupation than any other job?
he havent mention "provide capable practice partner and proper coaching" 
which is essential for profesional gaming
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EG didn't do anything illegal, and I think the ethics of this move could be debated either way, but I don't understand why EG didn't make a straight up apology to TSL, Coach Lee, and both the Korean and Foreign SC communities. This post by Alex sounds super defensive; every other paragraph is "We're sorry Coach Lee, but ED didn't do anything wrong, and we wouldn't change anything anyways." Had they come out and said "Look, we fucked up, we learned more about how the Korean SC scene operates, and we will try to do our best in the future to follow their conventions," I think they would have been able to garner much more good will worldwide.
You don't need to feel you did wrong to apologize; sometimes it does more good than standing your ground.
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On July 27 2011 02:21 Vertical wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 02:16 originalred04 wrote:
I think Korean sponsors don't care about US fan base....what can they advertise to us? A. Don't speak the language at all, B. Couldn't buy their products.
Koreans are in Foreign tourny's cause that's were the money is at, and they have a great chance of winning. this was also true but which one has bigger viewer ? IPL or GSL ? EG Master Cup or GSTL ? i dont think foreign scene that exclude koreans having better viewer either highest rated turnament all have foreigner vs korean matches MLG, Dreamhack, NASL, etc btw i see ur point about korean product dont need foreign exposure they need more local viewers anyway this getting of topic :D
one thing to consider though Vertical, is that that the GSL/GSTL, while being at horrible viewing times for us westerners, we still make up the majority of the viewer count. Koreans really dont watch sc2.... comparatively to BW. on the other hand, thats basically all we westerners watch. Koreans, on the other really dont make up a sizable viewer audience in western things (not saying you guys dont watch it. but your not a giant chunk of the pie.)
now compare western tourneys (everything other than Korea basically) not only do we watch the GSL, but we also watch the IPL/MLG/Dreamhack/IEM/NASL, and i believe(not positive, but fairly sure) that all of those event actually get higher numbers of live viewers AND with the exception of NASL, all the VODs are free. unlike GOM, which is terrible business sense, bc the overwhelming majority of viewers wont pay 25$ for each season. that means less VOD viewership which also means less advertising.
so yea, I'd say, at the end of the day. we have the viewer count. People need to realize that times are changing rapidly. Korea isnt the the absolute center of the ESPORTS universe anymore. they still have the best players(for now) but the rest of the world has already surpassed them in everything but player skill. and they are even catching up rapidly in that. i look forward to another GSL vs the World Tourney. think how close it was last time. and the absolute best foreigners didnt even go.
disclaimer; just a another perspective on the subjuct, no ill intent implied
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On July 27 2011 03:15 wonko wrote:
EG didn't do anything illegal, and I think the ethics of this move could be debated either way, but I don't understand why EG didn't make a straight up apology to TSL, Coach Lee, and both the Korean and Foreign SC communities. This post by Alex sounds super defensive; every other paragraph is "We're sorry Coach Lee, but ED didn't do anything wrong, and we wouldn't change anything anyways." Had they come out and said "Look, we fucked up, we learned more about how the Korean SC scene operates, and we will try to do our best in the future to follow their conventions," I think they would have been able to garner much more good will worldwide.
You don't need to feel you did wrong to apologize; sometimes it does more good than standing your ground.
yes it does sounded like that to me
it was like
"im sorry, but..."
"im sorry, but..."
"im sorry, but..."
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Still a fan of EG after this. The fact that puma wasn't under contract by TSL makes this whole situation a lot better for EG in my opinion. Nice to now have both sides of the story.
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On July 27 2011 03:17 cavalier117 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 02:21 Vertical wrote:On July 27 2011 02:16 originalred04 wrote:
I think Korean sponsors don't care about US fan base....what can they advertise to us? A. Don't speak the language at all, B. Couldn't buy their products.
Koreans are in Foreign tourny's cause that's were the money is at, and they have a great chance of winning. this was also true but which one has bigger viewer ? IPL or GSL ? EG Master Cup or GSTL ? i dont think foreign scene that exclude koreans having better viewer either highest rated turnament all have foreigner vs korean matches MLG, Dreamhack, NASL, etc btw i see ur point about korean product dont need foreign exposure they need more local viewers anyway this getting of topic :D one thing to consider though Vertical, is that that the GSL/GSTL, while being at horrible viewing times for us westerners, we still make up the majority of the viewer count. Koreans really dont watch sc2.... comparatively to BW. on the other hand, thats basically all we westerners watch. Koreans, on the other really do make up a sizable viewer audience in western things (not saying you guys dont watch it. but your not a giant chunk of the pie.) now compare western tourneys (everything other than Korea basically) not only do we watch the GSL, but we also watch the IPL/MLG/Dreamhack/IEM/NASL, and i believe(not positive, but fairly sure) that all of those event actually get higher numbers of live viewers AND with the exception of NASL, all the VODs are free. unlike GOM, which is terrible business sense, bc the overwhelming majority of viewers wont pay 25$ for each season. that means less VOD viewership which also means less advertising. so yea, I'd say, at the end of the day. we have the viewer count. People need to realize that times are changing rapidly. Korea isnt the the absolute center of the ESPORTS universe anymore. they still have the best players(for now) but the rest of the world has already surpassed them in everything but player skill. and they are even catching up rapidly in that. i look forward to another GSL vs the World Tourney. think how close it was last time. and the absolute best foreigners didnt even go.
I've tried this point to, people still don't get it man.
Once you register on TL...
- Korea is the best thing since sliced bread.
- Only Korean values matter
- Anything other than Korean values being presented means you should apologize to Korea for not acting as if you are also Korean.
- Korea.
- Business goes out the window.
- Insert some funny quote about Korea not using Contracts but respect, without even considering Kespa in the equation.
- The rest of the world doesn't matter, because Korea exists.
I'm really shocked at how everyone expects EG, AG, and the community to bend at every whim for the Korean SC community. You know what stops all of this from happening?
Korea getting it right. Not plastering out there that EG signed Puma to a contract when Puma hadn't signed anywhere yet (including TSL which had the opportunity to provide Puma with a contract prior to NASL, prior to him talking to EG, and even after he talked to EG). You don't think playpxp or whatever got it wrong by reporting that Puma signed a contract with EG when EG was still handling things in-house (not blaming Milikis calm down white knights)? Where's the apology for that? Creating outrage amongst the SC2 community one way or the other, costing a team that has invested a great deal of time/money in being a professional team (outside the scope of the SC2 scene, EG has existed longer than that)?
If the article read something more accurate like, say, "TSL and Puma part ways, Puma and EG likely to partner" then it would be a different story. But the whole feeling from the outset has been this "EG sniped Puma" undertone and quite frankly that isn't fair to EG.
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On July 26 2011 09:04 EGalex wrote:And obviously, it was never EG's intention, in any manner, to disrespect Mr. Lee or TSL. On behalf of EG, I would like to publicly apologize to Mr. Lee for any personal disrespect this situation has caused him. I have already sent him a personal letter of apology, but I feel that a public apology is necessary as well. In EG's defense, I want to state that, given the facts shared above, I really don't think that EG is guilty of any massive transgression here. I think the situation has been blown out of proportion to a ridiculous extent. However, I absolutely acknowledge that this situation ultimately boils down to the issue of cross-cultural respect. I truly do believe that EG's approach in this situation was appropriate, but I'm not so stubborn and belligerent as to sit here and claim that EG is 0% at fault. At the same time, though, the community's majority reaction was to place TSL as being 0% at fault, and that's not fair or accurate either.
1- "Apologize" to TSL
2- Say it's not completely your fault
3- Say it's kind of TSL's fault too
Nice apology x_x... Come on EG. You should criticize other teams in a month or two when people forget that you like to trample all over other teams. You should criticize other teams when people forget that you were completely out of line when you basically attacked Milkis. EG was unprofessional. And this fake apology is just business for you.
Let's look at Koreans, in the future, being reluctant to send players in the US because there's always a chance that big US teams with big US sponsors will snag players off their ranks if they're successful.
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On July 27 2011 03:26 Djzapz wrote:
[
Let's look at Koreans, in the future, being reluctant to send players in the US because there's always a chance that big US teams with big US sponsors will snag players off their ranks if they're successful.
Or Korea can contract those valuable players, sort of like what EG has done. Smart business is smart.
Or Korea can choose not to send their players to international events, and continue being isolationist and elitist. That would be their loss at the end of the day, because the writings on the wall in regards to the Korean SC2 scene (or should I say lackthereof)
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On July 27 2011 03:09 Vertical wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 03:07 Lokian wrote:On July 27 2011 03:05 T1Sugar wrote:
Fair play to EG . But they knew full well what they were doing, they knew Pumas situation and scooped him before TSL could afford to pay him there selves. I maybe wrong but although he wasnt given a salary dont TSL provide him with a house to stay in, a bed to sleep in and food to eat? While he sits on his arse and plays a computer game all day? Thats alot to give to a player who has now reached his potential and with that has gone. You're here on TL, and you're demoting professional gaming by implicating that its less of an occupation than any other job? he havent mention "provide capable practice partner and proper coaching" which is essential for profesional gaming
does mr.lee know how to play sc2 or any strategies? NO
how do i know? watch jaehun or whatever becomes a progamer from BW and you can see how pathetic mr.lee is in the role of coaching. even tho hes been in BW for multiple years, thats all he is. don't think 1 year of sc2 will make him anymore of a coach. setting up a schedule varies from team to team and that can be arranged easily
what is it that you think IS professional gaming? being in a team lets your practice with each other and other players give you tips.
does that = capable practice partner and proper coaching?
puma will do fine by himself because he has plenty of support from progamers. it's more of a progamer circle than a team because you see in multiple interviews that the gamers get help from other teams and people from the outside.
professional gaming shouldn't be confined to proper coaching. practice partners u can get on your own because they're pretty much your coaches as well.
professional gaming is professional means you need to have a contract for a paid occupation. not by calling your freind over and feeding him so he can get good
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On July 27 2011 02:40 Vertical wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 02:38 Zyphen wrote:
Are people reading the same BS I am? How did this statement clear anything up or make things all better? Because it's a giant wall of text and he's hoping to give you reader's fatigue?
Alex basically confirmed that he went to see and talk with Puma first before talking to TSL. Whether or not it was "legal" doesn't make it any less unethical of a business practice. People like Alex are the reason why you have to get a goddamn contract with your own mother now because a person's word doesn't mean anything anymore. Plus, he admits to doing it multiple times (i.e. Sen) with other players as well.
Alex's account of how Puma and Coach Lee "seemed fine with it at the time" is nothing but conjecture and disproven by the facts. Obviously, the coach wasn't fine with it. And letting Puma sit on the offer for as long as he did and laying the responsibility on him to inform his coach was a dick move and completely unprofessional. Puma being ok with it does not absolve Alex or EG of any blame. If anything, it just makes Puma almost as much of a dick.
I'm boycotting Puma, EG, and anything they're associated with. I hated PuMa and EG as much as you do but legally both PuMa and EG did nothing wrong but if you said PuMa just bite the hand that fed him than yes, i fully agree
He didn't bite the hand that fed him. They refused to contract him!!!!! They contracted there other stars, and walla decided against PUMA. Then they sent PUMA oversea's! seriously?????
If your not getting compensated what your feel the market dictates then its time to move on into a better situation. I think this actually is more of a situation of the upheaval, and a good timing by EG. Had they not had 3 top pro's leave already this would never have occurred. You think when 3 guys talk about giving money back and contract expecations not being lived up to doesn't make an impression on a extremely young/naive kid??? When FD is mad after a game and says well crap I had to give salary back for the team to continue... etc
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On July 26 2011 09:12 kaarotto wrote:
cool story bro
User was warned for this post
lol.
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On July 27 2011 03:28 Lokian wrote:
professional gaming is professional means you need to have a contract for a paid occupation. not by calling your freind over and feeding him so he can get good
Friend A
"Hey bro come over I'm ordering pizza lets play some COD"
Friend B
"Alright"
/two months later, after angry tirades to media outlets from friend A
Friend A
"Hey bro whyd you sign with EG I gave you a bunch of pizza and a 46'' television to play on at my house"
Friend B
"Wait what? We discussed this, I told you I was going to get signed and play for more than cheese pizzas."
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EPT
