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EG signs PuMa, responds to criticism - Page 58

Forum Index > SC2 General
1623 CommentsPost a Reply
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originalred04
Profile Joined July 2011
United States53 Posts
July 26 2011 16:32 GMT
#1141
I think Korea should respect our culture and society, thank you Alex for being a sage and savvy American ambassador
I am the Ginger King
Fermats_last
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
England336 Posts
July 26 2011 16:32 GMT
#1142
Other than taking good players away from the teams that shaped them into good players what the fuck does EG do? It's entire mode of business is:
Wait for a small time team to create talent
Don't wait for long enough that the small time team is able to salary it's players well from the sponsorship the talented player can bring in from his big tournament wins.
Throw offers of large sums of money directly at the player who, because sponsorship and salaries have not been sorted out yet will see this as a great offer.
Sign new talented player
Leave Small time teams struggling to survive as just as they are about to become profitable their players are lured away from them.
Fuck the long term viability of the scene.

EG should really invest in it's own players rather than throwing money at other teams players untill they leave. Of course EG can offer a better deal to Puma right now, it's an already established business but if they gave it a month or two the extra money in sponsorship and tournaments Puma could bring in to TSL would rival that of EG's offer, they just don't give it a chance to happen.
The road goes ever ever on, down from the door where it began
sunman1g
Profile Joined May 2011
United States334 Posts
July 26 2011 16:35 GMT
#1143
In the case of TSL, the only reason we did not speak with Mr. Lee first is that it was established between EG and PuMa, in our very first conversation, that - if he eventually decided he was interested in joining EG - he felt that the best first step (read: *first* step) to take would be for him to personally bring the issue to his coach. And then, after that initial conversation, EG's management could be put in touch with TSL's management. So, that's the path we took. PuMa brought up the issue with Mr. Lee, and their talk went well. And we were still waiting to speak with PuMa (to be briefed on the conversation, and also to get the next step of the process in motion - namely, EG being put in touch with Mr. Lee), when Mr. Lee went to the press. And then, as you all know, this became a massive public issue, literally, overnight. Mr. Lee went to the press so fast, in fact, that the news broke before we'd even been able to speak with PuMa, let alone arrange a meeting with Mr. Lee. EG actually only found out the details of PuMa and Mr. Lee's conversation (namely, that it was very friendly), well after the news was already published.


If this is true - and I am positive it is based on the description and the circumstances - the discussion is over.

EG did not do anything weird/not-correct and all the people flaming EG are looking pretty silly to me.
dampv
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden83 Posts
July 26 2011 16:36 GMT
#1144
On July 27 2011 00:27 traxdatacd wrote:
in proffesional football (soccer) the rule is that u have to speak to the management FIRST.
than if they agree u can offer terms to the player.
if the rule is broken there are severe penaltys.


While this is true, do you really think that it is adhered to? Take the Ronaldo to Madrid saga and the more recent Fabregas to Barcelona, do you really believe Madrid/Barca didn't make contact with the players or their agents before they made an official bid to the respective clubs? I'm pretty damn sure they did, besides agents and clubs talk all the time. And as mentioned, these players are under contract, paid millions each year and there are bodies governing the sport, and even with these safeguards there are still players being tapped up.

In this case a player without contract was contacted by another organisation, that would have been legal in any sport. I fail to see how the coach of TSL (is that TheMarine by the way?) is a representative of PuMa, EG did nothing wrong here as far as I can see.
Grimsong
Profile Joined August 2010
United States252 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-26 16:39:04
July 26 2011 16:37 GMT
#1145
I don't even get how AG didn't respect this almighty and only right Korean culture? Because he signed a guy who didnt have a contract?

What's that argument? That Korea works off of loyalty and respect?

Why is everyone acting as if Kespa didn't exist. As if they didn't take advantage of kids during the BW high times? Come on, really?

Korea knows how contracts work. The "we're innocent" allusions are baffling.
originalred04
Profile Joined July 2011
United States53 Posts
July 26 2011 16:38 GMT
#1146
@Fermats_last

In any major sport the stars usually end up in the major cities of that sport. Football, Futball, Baseball, Basketball etc small market teams thriving is the exception to the rule, not the rule. Those sports are viable because of the large markets, in this case TL, EG, OGS, Slayers etc.

Thank you EG for making SC2 more viable for the long term
I am the Ginger King
Grimsong
Profile Joined August 2010
United States252 Posts
July 26 2011 16:38 GMT
#1147
On July 27 2011 01:38 originalred04 wrote:
Thank you EG for making SC2 more viable for the long term


This.
LuckedOut
Profile Joined December 2010
77 Posts
July 26 2011 16:40 GMT
#1148
Thanks +1 to EG for the response. GL to PUMA!
Vertical
Profile Joined July 2011
Indonesia4317 Posts
July 26 2011 16:43 GMT
#1149
On July 27 2011 01:36 dampv wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2011 00:27 traxdatacd wrote:
in proffesional football (soccer) the rule is that u have to speak to the management FIRST.
than if they agree u can offer terms to the player.
if the rule is broken there are severe penaltys.


While this is true, do you really think that it is adhered to? Take the Ronaldo to Madrid saga and the more recent Fabregas to Barcelona, do you really believe Madrid/Barca didn't make contact with the players or their agents before they made an official bid to the respective clubs? I'm pretty damn sure they did, besides agents and clubs talk all the time. And as mentioned, these players are under contract, paid millions each year and there are bodies governing the sport, and even with these safeguards there are still players being tapped up.

In this case a player without contract was contacted by another organisation, that would have been legal in any sport. I fail to see how the coach of TSL (is that TheMarine by the way?) is a representative of PuMa, EG did nothing wrong here as far as I can see.


in soccer assumption
then it'll be the same with serie a U-17 being poached by england teams
the england teams did no wrong because U-17 players in italy have no contract

but ethically, people in italy and italian scene lovers will hate england

this was the same case
legally EG did nothing wrong
but they're ethically hated
-Terran-
originalred04
Profile Joined July 2011
United States53 Posts
July 26 2011 16:45 GMT
#1150
Except for the fact the TSL could have given Puma a contract and Didn't. So really the whole soccer assumption is of base in this key respect. He could have had a contract, they didn't offer him one, EG didn't poach anyone, they promoted him to a full time paid position and instantly made him many times more marketable.
I am the Ginger King
Cheekzz
Profile Joined February 2011
United States15 Posts
July 26 2011 16:47 GMT
#1151
I believe both parties are justified in their reactions. EG was basically the new boyfriend, and TSL the old boyfriend. From reading this article, it seems like EG wanted Puma to break the news to his old boyfriend, and of course the old boyfriend responded in a way that was 100% reactionary ("releasing" Puma from EG.)

After all, with Puma's recent performance I am sure it was difficult for TSL to realize that they would no longer be the team associated with him.

Good job on this post, and trying the best of your ability to mend things with TSL and Mr. Lee!
“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”
dmillz
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada270 Posts
July 26 2011 16:48 GMT
#1152
God there are a bunch of whiny self righteous bitches on this forum. EG didn't do anything wrong by talking to PuMa first. Ultimately it was PuMa's decision if he was interested in joining EG and since he wasn't contracted there is no reason to go to TSL about it first. Stop creating drama where there is none.

Good job EG!
ST.Narcotics
Profile Joined July 2011
United Kingdom8 Posts
July 26 2011 16:48 GMT
#1153
I'd like to thank EG for taking the time to explain things and in such a controllable manner.
EG fighting!
Team Special Tectics
Fermats_last
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
England336 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-26 16:52:48
July 26 2011 16:48 GMT
#1154
On July 27 2011 01:38 originalred04 wrote:
@Fermats_last

In any major sport the stars usually end up in the major cities of that sport. Football, Futball, Baseball, Basketball etc small market teams thriving is the exception to the rule, not the rule. Those sports are viable because of the large markets, in this case TL, EG, OGS, Slayers etc.

Thank you EG for making SC2 more viable for the long term


This works if EG was 'a major city' of good players. Rather than 'a major city' of mediocre players with virtually no recent results aside from Idra. They didn't even get into the play offs in their purely foreigner team leage, where TL OGS Slayers weren't even present. TSL has players infinitely better than Incontrol, Axslav, StrifeCro, etc. They just aren't lucky enough to have the sponsorship YET. Taking top talent from a team that is better than you in skill isn't the same as taking top talent to a top talent team.

I.E taking Beckham from his local team to Manchester United is good because it will improve his skill as the team is better at Man U than his local team. But taking Beckham from A team full of talent to a team with little talent but lot's of money is a bad move as it won't improve his skill in any way.
The road goes ever ever on, down from the door where it began
Torumfroll
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
290 Posts
July 26 2011 16:49 GMT
#1155
"Hello we have expressed our interest in player X. Even though hes not contracted to your team we felt the need to contact you since he is a part of your team/organization. Blah Blah..."
Showing a little respect is THAT hard. EG should have recognized TSL as an entity and not try to go through with something like this behind their backs. Yeah, Puma was supposed to talk to the coach, but they should have made an effort to speak with him as well, regardless of how Puma perceived how his talk with the coach went.

The Milkis thing is just ridiculous on their part. Milkis has no obligations towards anyone except himself on this forum, since as far as I know he is not a TL.net staff member. He translates because he enjoys contributing to the community, because there is a lot of interesting stuff to read on korean sites. Milkis is not a journalist and a forum post should not be a subject to journalistic rules and ethics, unless justified. He did make an effort to get a statement from EG, and they weren't interested in giving one at that time. Tough luck.
Grimsong
Profile Joined August 2010
United States252 Posts
July 26 2011 16:52 GMT
#1156
On July 27 2011 01:48 Fermats_last wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2011 01:38 originalred04 wrote:
@Fermats_last

In any major sport the stars usually end up in the major cities of that sport. Football, Futball, Baseball, Basketball etc small market teams thriving is the exception to the rule, not the rule. Those sports are viable because of the large markets, in this case TL, EG, OGS, Slayers etc.

Thank you EG for making SC2 more viable for the long term


This works if EG was 'a big city' of good players. Rather than 'a big city' of mediocre players with virtually no recent results aside from Idra. They didn't even get into the play offs in their purely foreigner team leage, where TL OGS Slayers weren't even present. TSL has players infinitely better than Incontrol, Axslav, StrifeCro, etc. They just aren't lucky enough to have the sponsorship YET.


Big city is big city, regardless of wins/losses.

The Lakers struggled in the mid 2000's, were they not a big city still? Did they not still generate more revenue than the majority of those small market teams that are more or less dead end. When it comes to marketting and potential profits, is a player best of in an obscure market (IE Milwaukee Bucks), or in a booming market (IE Los Angeles Lakers)? Similarly, regardless of results, EG has a pretty large pull/swing in the E-Sports scene. Don't think they have influence? Check out the other 500 or so pages between all of these separate threads that have sprung up.
bonifaceviii
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2890 Posts
July 26 2011 16:56 GMT
#1157
On July 27 2011 01:48 Fermats_last wrote:
I.E taking Beckham from his local team to Manchester United is good because it will improve his skill as the team is better at Man U than his local team. But taking Beckham from A team full of talent to a team with little talent but lot's of money is a bad move as it won't improve his skill in any way.

Is Beckham still part of the LA Galaxy, by the way? Because that's pretty much a concrete example of your "rich but bad team buying a good player" thing.
Stay a while and listen || http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354018
Fermats_last
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
England336 Posts
July 26 2011 16:57 GMT
#1158
On July 27 2011 01:52 Grimsong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2011 01:48 Fermats_last wrote:
On July 27 2011 01:38 originalred04 wrote:
@Fermats_last

In any major sport the stars usually end up in the major cities of that sport. Football, Futball, Baseball, Basketball etc small market teams thriving is the exception to the rule, not the rule. Those sports are viable because of the large markets, in this case TL, EG, OGS, Slayers etc.

Thank you EG for making SC2 more viable for the long term


This works if EG was 'a big city' of good players. Rather than 'a big city' of mediocre players with virtually no recent results aside from Idra. They didn't even get into the play offs in their purely foreigner team leage, where TL OGS Slayers weren't even present. TSL has players infinitely better than Incontrol, Axslav, StrifeCro, etc. They just aren't lucky enough to have the sponsorship YET.


Big city is big city, regardless of wins/losses.

The Lakers struggled in the mid 2000's, were they not a big city still? Did they not still generate more revenue than the majority of those small market teams that are more or less dead end. When it comes to marketting and potential profits, is a player best of in an obscure market (IE Milwaukee Bucks), or in a booming market (IE Los Angeles Lakers)? Similarly, regardless of results, EG has a pretty large pull/swing in the E-Sports scene. Don't think they have influence? Check out the other 500 or so pages between all of these separate threads that have sprung up.


Going Somewhere with more money and less skill. Is not going to help you improve as a player, it's just going to give you a bit more money, (which i'm sure he needs after winning $50k which TSL took 0% of). In a sport where your own skill can vastly depend on practice partners, this is a huge detriment.
The road goes ever ever on, down from the door where it began
StiMMy
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada96 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-26 16:58:00
July 26 2011 16:57 GMT
#1159
On July 27 2011 01:49 Torumfroll wrote:
"Hello we have expressed our interest in player X. Even though hes not contracted to your team we felt the need to contact you since he is a part of your team/organization. Blah Blah..."
Showing a little respect is THAT hard. EG should have recognized TSL as an entity and not try to go through with something like this behind their backs. Yeah, Puma was supposed to talk to the coach, but they should have made an effort to speak with him as well, regardless of how Puma perceived how his talk with the coach went.

The Milkis thing is just ridiculous on their part. Milkis has no obligations towards anyone except himself on this forum, since as far as I know he is not a TL.net staff member. He translates because he enjoys contributing to the community, because there is a lot of interesting stuff to read on korean sites. Milkis is not a journalist and a forum post should not be a subject to journalistic rules and ethics, unless justified. He did make an effort to get a statement from EG, and they weren't interested in giving one at that time. Tough luck.


This shit disgusts me.

You're the type of person who would leave the doors of your car unlocked and then blame it on someone else when it got stolen.

If you honestly appreciate something, and care about it, you will protect it. Period.

TSL made a terrible business decision in leaving PuMa unprotected. EG capatilized on this mistake. Maybe you should all write EG letters with little hearts and pink lining telling them they should be "nicer".

Word's like disgusting and pathetic don't even begin to describe whats going on in this thread.

originalred04
Profile Joined July 2011
United States53 Posts
July 26 2011 16:57 GMT
#1160
@Ferments, obviously EG isn't a major city, this is online gaming, It is not difficult to draw the conclusion that they are the equivalent of a major city. They have the sponsors, and they have a fan base. Just because a small market city has good players doesn't mean they will be successful. I will not see Puma more than I would have otherwise. Incontrol, Idra, & Puma is a very solid core.

Also having sponsorships is not luck, it's diligent hard work.
I am the Ginger King
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