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On July 27 2011 00:23 Copenap wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 00:17 rotegirte wrote:On July 26 2011 23:47 Copenap wrote:On July 26 2011 23:39 Nightfall.589 wrote:On July 26 2011 23:36 Copenap wrote:On July 26 2011 23:27 Justanx wrote:
I believe TSL was one of the first teams to give out salaries, and Fruitdealer was one of the highest paid players, but left with trickster to ST. Fruitdealer even remarked that he did not agree with the direction the team is going. Maybe Mr. Lee was not making the right decisions for these players in the end.
With all that being said. Why is it there is no uproar towards ST for talking to Fruitdealer and Trickster, is it because it was another Korean team. Fruit was looking out for number one as is Puma. The so called sensationalism made by Mr Lee and Milkies just drove up the drama. Puma only got recognition by TSL because he blew away NASL. Before that he was just a practice partner for some of the bigger names on the team. He probably felt it was time to move on where he was more marketable. All this speculation and grandiose writings can not even cut into what all these players are thinking and what the team was really doing before Puma became famous.
If Puma did not win the NASL would he even be mentioned right now. Rain left for reasons as well. That's 4 players who have left team TSL. So EG picked up a player who was not appreciated until NASL. Maybe a deeper look into TSL should be in order. Let me explain. Fruitdealer and Tester left for 2reasons afaik. Firstly TSL was implementing a more strict training schedule, because they had trouble finding sponsors due to the missing of good results. Fruitdealer and Tester didnt want that. Furthermore it was said that Coach Lee couldnt realise what he promised to them and he therefore could understand why they wanted to leave. So you cant really blame Coach Lee for doing what is needed to get new sponsors in order to take care of your players. Yet, he can't understand why an unpaid, uncontracted player isn't in any way obligated to say two words (Or put their future in his hands), if they wanted to leave? Or how an organisation that is no way indebted to him, can't negotiate on their own with an unpaid, uncontracted player? Again, if Coach Lee wanted to maintain the team, he could have contracted Puma. I was simply explaining why Fruitdealer and Tester left and why there was no uproar. Concerning contracting Pzma, I think it became pretty clear that you cant contract a player if you cannot offer anything to them due to the lack of sponsors. Now if you say "that is their problem and I dont care" then that is your oppinion but people might see that differently. No, it's certainly not an opinion. We might care or wish that TSL would be able to support their players, but most certainly it is their issue. Not EG's, not anyone else's. I disagree. If contractual obligations are the only thing that count then that is your oppinion, not mine and certainly not a fact. Edit: I'm obviously NOT talking frim a legal point of view.
I'm not talking about a legal point either. I am talking about the fact that PumA wanted to leave the team and TSL is unable to provide the support he wanted. Whether it'd be EG or anyone else did not matter.
1) Team X met the expectations of PumA
2) TSL did not.
The latter is TSL's very own problem.
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On July 27 2011 00:29 StiMMy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 00:18 Copenap wrote:On July 27 2011 00:10 Grimsong wrote:On July 27 2011 00:08 StiMMy wrote:
I find it hilarious that a business is being criticized for doing business.
Puma was on TSL, TSL obviously didn't care enough, or couldn't secure the financial means to persuade Puma to sign a contract.
EG, being a business, and a successful one, took the opportunity to secure a talented player that they know will make them money. They did it by having him sign a contract. Smart business move.
Criticizing EG because they didn't wear a monocle and tip their proverbial top hat at TSL before making their move is just childish.
It actually shows alot of class that EG decided to try to solve this rediculous drama cause by over zealous loud mouths, instead of just cutting to hard ass mode and black balling this entire conversation.
It would be completely in their right to pretend like the whole lot of your whiny kids are nothing more than a minor inconvenience that will inevitable forget all about this the next time something remotely dramatic happens.
It's too bad their are so many classless children out there who propogated this entire dramatic shit show, instead of objectively and critically analyzing the situation once all the facts were known.
Pathetic. I was going to post something to this extent for the 10000th time, but I appreciate you doing so for me. Time for some folks to grow up, we aren't 5 year olds playing GI Joes in a sandbox. Foxconn is being criticised for doing business as well and I would say rightfully so. The world isnt always black and white and you shouldnt force your opinion on anybody else. People might just see this differently due to other experiences, believes or whatever. Saying everyone with a different oppionion is a 5yr old kid isnt really helping. Edit: I'm in no way compairing EG to Foxconn O:-) Having a contradictory opinion to mine is by no means a crime, or even a slight against me. However, when a human being with a working brain jumps to conclusions without actively attempting to educate themselves on all aspects of the issue at hand, I feel it is a negative for the entire community. Whether we like it or not, the reason e-sports are available for us to enjoy, is because business' feel that it is a market where money can be made. And just as in every other market in this world, making money is #1. You have team's like EG to thank for going out and fighting the good fight to get large companies interested in E-sports. And if they have to step on athe toes of short sighted and small minded individuals to ensure that those sponsors stay interested in E-sports, and continue to funnel money into it, I won't stand in their way. Stop living in a fantasy land of lolipops and gum drops. Welcome to the real world.
Exactly.
This is a business. And until multiple businesses within the business start to treat it as such, the few that do need to find ways to continue to make money and progress the scene. No matter how you cut it up, you need teams like EG willing to shoot into the dark to try and burst the gates open for E-Sports. Signing a Korean progamer, who is an exceptional player and has some hype from NASL behind him, is a smart business move for EG.
Oh, and lets just completely toss aside the fact that Puma is going to be getting PAID to play SC2 internationally.
Such a shame what EG did! Get the holy water!
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If PuMa wanted to stay with TSL out of some filial obligation he would have. Money, as lots of anti-EG people have said over and over again in this thread, is not everything.
And please, please don't insult PuMa by saying a 19 year old can't make decisions for himself. Have some of this "respect" you guys keep talking about.
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Well I never saw a problem to begin with. Puma was approached by EG, he said he would talk to the coach by himself, he talked to the coach and told EG that it went well, Lee for some reason flips out and writes crap and now EG is the big bad wolf for going after a good business deal? What should they have done? Said no we will talk to coach Lee despite your wishes Puma, or should they not have tried to recruit him because you people don't like them or want Puma to stay in TSL where from what I have heard he was not even paid? Sorry but can I ask you in what kind of sugarcoated unicorns and rainbows world you you live in?
EG saw a good deal, they took it, that's how business works, it doesn't work on friendship and hopes or crap like that, it work so that if you see a good deal or opportunity you take it and don't care about the ones left in the dust(TSL), especially not in the SC2 world where the only thing that could get hurt are the your 12 year old girl feelings, seriously if you can't deal with it or don't agree write a blog post like TLO did, not that I agree with anything he said but at least he did it in a composed and partially inoffensive way.
As for Miliks or anyone who gets offended by things said about them on the internet, deal with it.
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If he was not contracted with TSL i fail to see the problem??
don't know anything about the milkies so i'm not gonna say anything about that.
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On July 27 2011 00:30 Rylaji wrote:
I still dont, nor have I ever like EG in any e-sport. However as long as you keep PuMa in Korea and let him train with peers rather than straight out bad players which is lets face it everyone on EG apart from IdrA and DeMusliM atm, then I dont give a fuck. I just want PuMa to unlock all his potential and be the best he can be. With or without EG.
Also you dont have to be "rich" to be a big bad corporation. I still think you are.
Spoken like a true fan! I hope EG realizes that that's what everyone wants -- players to perform their best.
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Good to hear EG's side, probably one of the better/more official press release about this issue, but looks like my initial idea of the problem was right. Well written EG.
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On July 27 2011 00:27 traxdatacd wrote:
in proffesional football (soccer) the rule is that u have to speak to the management FIRST.
than if they agree u can offer terms to the player.
if the rule is broken there are severe penaltys.
Professional soccer players are on contracts, and there is a governing body to draft the rules regarding transfers up and then enforce them.
None of these things exist in this situation
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On July 27 2011 00:43 Hawk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 00:27 traxdatacd wrote:
in proffesional football (soccer) the rule is that u have to speak to the management FIRST.
than if they agree u can offer terms to the player.
if the rule is broken there are severe penaltys. Professional soccer players are on contracts, and there is a governing body to draft the rules regarding transfers up and then enforce them. None of these things exist in this situation
Exactly.
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Interesting, so EG's Admins have more brains than its fan base claiming that ethics is stupid. So I guess that e-sports really are evolving.
But still, it's really fishy that the TL coach reacted so angry like that IF PuMa and EG are telling the truth. I wonder if PuMa really told Mr Lee everything like he claimed.
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What EG did was not right not matter how you spin it. I'm sure they approached Puma and told him about all the money he could be making at EG, and after several conversations had Puma convinced that EG was a better place for him. At that point what did they expect to happen? For TSL to keep an unhappy player on their roster? The TSL coach couldn't have done anything other than to let PUMA go and to express his dissatisfaction with team EG.
Of course, you could say that Puma was not under a contract and this is just the nature of buisness. But then again, buisness is a slimey buisness and last time I checked, it's OK to hate slimey people. amiright?
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Still not convinced after EGs press release, no offense. But as for me it clarifies the situation from both sides now that we have EGs story aswell. GL to EG anyways and of course to PuMa.
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the lifespan of a progamer is very short. on top of that, 99% of kids who attempt to go pro never see a dime and in fact, lose money trying to do so. In the current state of progaming, a 19yo gamer would be an idiot not to take the best deal available to him and ride with it, especially at the point in his career that he is most highly regarded(coming off of an nasl championship). this is great for puma, and it makes me so happy to see such a hardworking fellow get the credit he is due when so many other gamers continue to struggle for recognition.
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everyone saying this is bad business is working against the aspirations of progamers and wannabes everywhere. this is good for the sport. this is good for the players.
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On July 27 2011 00:48 hotwings wrote:
What EG did was not right not matter how you spin it. I'm sure they approached Puma and told him about all the money he could be making at EG, and after several conversations had Puma convinced that EG was a better place for him. At that point what did they expect to happen? For TSL to keep an unhappy player on their roster? The TSL coach couldn't have done anything other than to let PUMA go and to express his dissatisfaction with team EG.
Of course, you could say that Puma was not under a contract and this is just the nature of buisness. But then again, buisness is a slimey buisness and last time I checked, it's OK to hate slimey people. amiright?
Just as OK as it is to make assumptions AMIRITE?
You're fabricating a story to fit your perspective.
Congratulations.
And even if that were the case, I heard it's a crime to pay gamers via contractual agreements so that they can continue to live the dream of gaming for a living. Amiright?
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"0 was already a fan and still am"
No further comments, never wasnt a fan.
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On July 27 2011 00:48 AYSJr wrote:
Interesting, so EG's Admins have more brains than its fan base claiming that ethics is stupid. So I guess that e-sports really are evolving.
But still, it's really fishy that the TL coach reacted so angry like that IF PuMa and EG are telling the truth. I wonder if PuMa really told Mr Lee everything like he claimed.
I too think there is still more to the story as well. alex claims that talks between puma and mr.lee went well but then couldnt understand why mr.lee was negative about it to KR press. very very fishy.
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On July 27 2011 00:57 dib wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 00:48 AYSJr wrote:
Interesting, so EG's Admins have more brains than its fan base claiming that ethics is stupid. So I guess that e-sports really are evolving.
But still, it's really fishy that the TL coach reacted so angry like that IF PuMa and EG are telling the truth. I wonder if PuMa really told Mr Lee everything like he claimed. I too think there is still more to the story as well. alex claims that talks between puma and mr.lee went well but then couldnt understand why mr.lee was negative about it to KR press. very very fishy.
who cares? who is Mr lee? puma's master? nah, just some guy trying to make a living by running a pro-gaming team, something he appears to be less than capable of doing at the moment. Maybe he should find another job, or maybe he should reevaluate how he does business so the same thing doesnt happen to him again.
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On July 27 2011 00:57 dib wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 00:48 AYSJr wrote:
Interesting, so EG's Admins have more brains than its fan base claiming that ethics is stupid. So I guess that e-sports really are evolving.
But still, it's really fishy that the TL coach reacted so angry like that IF PuMa and EG are telling the truth. I wonder if PuMa really told Mr Lee everything like he claimed. I too think there is still more to the story as well. alex claims that talks between puma and mr.lee went well but then couldnt understand why mr.lee was negative about it to KR press. very very fishy.
fishy, or a hurt coach that feels his team is breaking apart. that's the whole beauty of spinning conspiracies isn't it
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4) PuMa was not contracted by TSL, and did not receive a salary. --GG
So why would EG need to contact TSL at all? Completely Puma's own decision and I agree they should've talked to him first regardless.
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EPT
