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On July 27 2011 00:57 dib wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 00:48 AYSJr wrote:
Interesting, so EG's Admins have more brains than its fan base claiming that ethics is stupid. So I guess that e-sports really are evolving.
But still, it's really fishy that the TL coach reacted so angry like that IF PuMa and EG are telling the truth. I wonder if PuMa really told Mr Lee everything like he claimed. I too think there is still more to the story as well. alex claims that talks between puma and mr.lee went well but then couldnt understand why mr.lee was negative about it to KR press. very very fishy.
It WOULD be fishy but considering the facts, Ex. TSL throwing puma a going away party, coach lee confirming that he will keep in contact with puma and vice versa, TO ME, points to the fact that the conversation went well.
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can someone give me a link to the whole milkis thing?
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On July 27 2011 00:57 dib wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 00:48 AYSJr wrote:
Interesting, so EG's Admins have more brains than its fan base claiming that ethics is stupid. So I guess that e-sports really are evolving.
But still, it's really fishy that the TL coach reacted so angry like that IF PuMa and EG are telling the truth. I wonder if PuMa really told Mr Lee everything like he claimed. I too think there is still more to the story as well. alex claims that talks between puma and mr.lee went well but then couldnt understand why mr.lee was negative about it to KR press. very very fishy.
Coach Lee had to act like a jilted lover to the Korean media to protect his own interests. TSL is hemorrhaging good players, and Coach Lee needs to make it look like it's not his fault and he's the victim.
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On July 27 2011 01:02 bonifaceviii wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 00:57 dib wrote:On July 27 2011 00:48 AYSJr wrote:
Interesting, so EG's Admins have more brains than its fan base claiming that ethics is stupid. So I guess that e-sports really are evolving.
But still, it's really fishy that the TL coach reacted so angry like that IF PuMa and EG are telling the truth. I wonder if PuMa really told Mr Lee everything like he claimed. I too think there is still more to the story as well. alex claims that talks between puma and mr.lee went well but then couldnt understand why mr.lee was negative about it to KR press. very very fishy. Coach Lee had to act like a jilted lover to the Korean media to protect his own interests. TSL is hemorrhaging good players, and Coach Lee needs to make it look like it's not his fault and he's the victim.
Pretty much this. TSL is falling apart, something we have known for some time now. It sucks but hey, so does aspiring to be a progamer and never seeing a dime.
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can someone give me a link to the whole milkis thing?
yeah what happened to milkis?
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this is no different from U-17 football players
in italy players U-17 cannot be contracted
therefore teams from england are "poaching" them
1. Legally EG did not made a mistake
2. the action EG took, has it consequences, same goes with the football case
the "poaching" team will be hated by italian lovers
so ethically EG is wrong, but legally EG is at no fault
PuMa has no contract therefore EG has no obligation to ask for TSL's permission
PuMa needs a living so its just natural to accept some sum of money
TSL found, trained, made PuMa known for public but receive nothing
I'd say no one is at fault
but my heart says to hate EG
:D
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On July 27 2011 01:08 solidbebe wrote:yeah what happened to milkis?
Listen to the Weapon of Choice episode. Basically Alex got all high and mighty on Milkis for posting something that he translated from a Korean news source without asking EG for their side of the story. It was strange and accusatory and made everybody feel really uncomfortable.
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On July 27 2011 01:08 solidbebe wrote:yeah what happened to milkis?
it's in a weapon's of choice episode (it's even called PUMA EG TSL etc.). At the end EGAlex was trying to discuss with Milkis whether or not translators have a responsibility towards what they publicize online or not. For whatever reason people seem to believe that Alex was attacking Milkis verbally, but I think he was just trying to have a civilized debate.
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On July 27 2011 00:02 Scarlet- wrote:
More scumbag responses from Alex Garfield and the rest of EG. First saying iNcontroL had to leave SotG because of practice time, and not the sponsorship deals you didn't want to break. And now being a complete ass to the Korean gaming community, Milkis, and the rest of TL.
THIS is spot on
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The problem with Alex "blunder" Garfield is that he doesn't know how to simply say
"We made a mistake, I am sorry". Its that freaking easy. Anyone with half a brain who has any respect for different cultures or ideologies can see what is wrong with this situation, sadly most people simply go "L-O-L NO CONTRACT HAHA IDIOT" and have no idea of the bigger picture in Korea and how far their trust is taking e-sports, especially in their fragile environment where Starcraft's audience is split between both games..
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Never the less. Purchasing a player wether its from a viritual sport or a physical one. One goes through the proper channels which are the teams / organizasions / club manager. I know you have done this before, and you should have done this now as well. It would'nt have blown up like it did if u had.
Even if u did it in the best of your intentions, it was the wrong approache and therefor concidered Player Ninjaing no matter how you look at it or how well you put it.
Still a EG fan tho!
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On July 27 2011 01:10 bonifaceviii wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 01:08 solidbebe wrote:can someone give me a link to the whole milkis thing? yeah what happened to milkis? Listen to the Weapon of Choice episode. Basically Alex got all high and mighty on Milkis for posting something that he translated from a Korean news source without asking EG for their side of the story. It was strange and accusatory and made everybody feel really uncomfortable.
What was DJwheat's stand on that? I hope he keeps sat on the fence about it, would hate to see him get cosy with EG and them drag him down with them.
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On July 27 2011 01:15 sekritzzz wrote:
The problem with Alex "blunder" Garfield is that he doesn't know how to simply say
"We made a mistake, I am sorry". Its that freaking easy. Anyone with half a brain who has any respect for different cultures or ideologies can see what is wrong with this situation, sadly most people simply go "L-O-L NO CONTRACT HAHA IDIOT" and have no idea of the bigger picture in Korea and how far their trust is taking e-sports, especially in their fragile environment where Starcraft's audience is split between both games..
They didn't make a mistake, there's nothing to be sorry for. And even then AG apologized regardless. Not good enough? Dangled retro-pay to TSL.
How far their trust is TAKING E-Sports? I'd venture to say their perspective on E-Sports is actually holding back the international scene. Holding it back incredibly at that.
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Nice to finally hear EG's side of things. I doubt that either this account or TSL's account are completely accurate. It's all so hearsay that you really can't form an accurate judgement. At least they're standing their ground without being overly abrasive.
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Very reasonable response. Thank you to EG for clarifying the matter. Truth is stranger than fiction, and the media's take is usually stranger again.
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On July 27 2011 00:56 Grimsong wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 00:48 hotwings wrote:
What EG did was not right not matter how you spin it. I'm sure they approached Puma and told him about all the money he could be making at EG, and after several conversations had Puma convinced that EG was a better place for him. At that point what did they expect to happen? For TSL to keep an unhappy player on their roster? The TSL coach couldn't have done anything other than to let PUMA go and to express his dissatisfaction with team EG.
Of course, you could say that Puma was not under a contract and this is just the nature of buisness. But then again, buisness is a slimey buisness and last time I checked, it's OK to hate slimey people. amiright? Just as OK as it is to make assumptions AMIRITE? You're fabricating a story to fit your perspective. Congratulations. And even if that were the case, I heard it's a crime to pay gamers via contractual agreements so that they can continue to live the dream of gaming for a living. Amiright?
What assumptions am I making? EG has said they had several conversations with PUMA, and usually in conversations like that money does come up. Hell, EG even said that they waited until Puma "felt strong enough to approach Coach Lee". What do you think that means? It obviously means that Puma was already thinking of leaving TSL.
And you're right, it's not a crime to pay gamers. But it's also not a crime to be polite. Particularly, when a lot of bad PR can be headed your way.
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On July 26 2011 09:05 CellTech wrote:Thanks for your side of the story. Although, I believe EG may have indirectly sparked kespa 2.0 Puma was really becoming the Ace of a team that didn't "yet" have enough sponsors to support him as well as EG. imo. This was EG looking at Puma and whispering to themselves "omg, no salary, no contract, he's awesome, let's get him". If EG *really* cared about having top tier players it wouldn't contradict itself with much of it's current roster. Puma hwaiting, and best of luck. Poll: Team EG0 was already a fan and still am (1969) 43% -1 fan (1818) 40% +1 fan (802) 17% 4589 total votes Your vote: Team EG (Vote): +1 fan
(Vote): -1 fan
(Vote): 0 was already a fan and still am
Looks like the majority like EG.
41+14 = 55%
Glad to hear, i thought that 90% of TL was a bunch of haters/trolls that need to feed on drama.
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Well done, EG. 
Not sure why the community seems out for blood sometimes, there's nothing wrong with the way this was handled.
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He's handling it like a lawyer or politician or CEO: never admit any wrongdoing, only apologize if the victim was "offended", point to legal technicalities rather than ethical issues, deflect criticism by going on the offensive about an irrelevant issue (e-journalism), blame the victim for their mistakes rather than owning up to your own, etc...
Even if there is no wrongdoing in this situation, I am not impressed with this PR approach. It does not have the air of forthright conviction.
Great success will surely follow for EG and all their great sponsors.
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EPT
