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EG signs PuMa, responds to criticism - Page 59

Forum Index > SC2 General
1623 CommentsPost a Reply
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Fermats_last
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
England336 Posts
July 26 2011 16:58 GMT
#1161
On July 27 2011 01:56 bonifaceviii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2011 01:48 Fermats_last wrote:
I.E taking Beckham from his local team to Manchester United is good because it will improve his skill as the team is better at Man U than his local team. But taking Beckham from A team full of talent to a team with little talent but lot's of money is a bad move as it won't improve his skill in any way.

Is Beckham still part of the LA Galaxy, by the way? Because that's pretty much a concrete example of your "rich but bad team buying a good player" thing.


I think he is, but i don't actually follow football I just couldn't think of another example :L
The road goes ever ever on, down from the door where it began
bonifaceviii
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2890 Posts
July 26 2011 16:58 GMT
#1162
On July 27 2011 01:57 Fermats_last wrote:
Going Somewhere with more money and less skill. Is not going to help you improve as a player, it's just going to give you a bit more money, (which i'm sure he needs after winning $50k which TSL took 0% of). In a sport where your own skill can vastly depend on practice partners, this is a huge detriment.

That's PuMa's decision to make. Are you going to fault EG for giving him the opportunity to make it?
Stay a while and listen || http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354018
NoddyUK
Profile Joined July 2011
United Kingdom35 Posts
July 26 2011 16:59 GMT
#1163
The way I see this is no different from the Premier league's plan in the early days. Offer out-of-contract players a contract, a team and bring them over from foreign countries.
Grimsong
Profile Joined August 2010
United States252 Posts
July 26 2011 17:00 GMT
#1164
On July 27 2011 01:57 Fermats_last wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2011 01:52 Grimsong wrote:
On July 27 2011 01:48 Fermats_last wrote:
On July 27 2011 01:38 originalred04 wrote:
@Fermats_last

In any major sport the stars usually end up in the major cities of that sport. Football, Futball, Baseball, Basketball etc small market teams thriving is the exception to the rule, not the rule. Those sports are viable because of the large markets, in this case TL, EG, OGS, Slayers etc.

Thank you EG for making SC2 more viable for the long term


This works if EG was 'a big city' of good players. Rather than 'a big city' of mediocre players with virtually no recent results aside from Idra. They didn't even get into the play offs in their purely foreigner team leage, where TL OGS Slayers weren't even present. TSL has players infinitely better than Incontrol, Axslav, StrifeCro, etc. They just aren't lucky enough to have the sponsorship YET.


Big city is big city, regardless of wins/losses.

The Lakers struggled in the mid 2000's, were they not a big city still? Did they not still generate more revenue than the majority of those small market teams that are more or less dead end. When it comes to marketting and potential profits, is a player best of in an obscure market (IE Milwaukee Bucks), or in a booming market (IE Los Angeles Lakers)? Similarly, regardless of results, EG has a pretty large pull/swing in the E-Sports scene. Don't think they have influence? Check out the other 500 or so pages between all of these separate threads that have sprung up.


Going Somewhere with more money and less skill. Is not going to help you improve as a player, it's just going to give you a bit more money, (which i'm sure he needs after winning $50k which TSL took 0% of). In a sport where your own skill can vastly depend on practice partners, this is a huge detriment.


Is it not detrimental that all he does is play in Korea, with Koreans, in a Korean market that is floundering? While not being contracted by TSL? Come on.

I heard it's wrong for Puma to want to maximize his profits, while still playing with the BEST PLAYERS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD, not just Korea. In tournaments such as MLG which garner a ton of attention and such. He's got a window to make money in the market as it is, EG needed another top tier player to partner with iDra. And he's still going to play against great gamers. His APM might go down 20 though. Oh no.
originalred04
Profile Joined July 2011
United States53 Posts
July 26 2011 17:00 GMT
#1165
Well said Grimsong, a big city is a big city, I find it interesting how closely the rise of E sports mimics that of real brick and mortar sports
I am the Ginger King
Fermats_last
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
England336 Posts
July 26 2011 17:01 GMT
#1166
On July 27 2011 01:57 originalred04 wrote:
@Ferments, obviously EG isn't a major city, this is online gaming, It is not difficult to draw the conclusion that they are the equivalent of a major city. They have the sponsors, and they have a fan base. Just because a small market city has good players doesn't mean they will be successful. I will not see Puma more than I would have otherwise. Incontrol, Idra, & Puma is a very solid core.

Also having sponsorships is not luck, it's diligent hard work.


Yah they have sponsors and a fan base. They don't have the players with the abilities to be good practice partners for Puma, apart from TvZ. I don't see Puma improving much with EG.

Yes and i'm sure TSL could have secured sponsors had EG not immediately taken away the player that would have enticed sponsors to choose TSL
The road goes ever ever on, down from the door where it began
originalred04
Profile Joined July 2011
United States53 Posts
July 26 2011 17:04 GMT
#1167
Fruit Dealer, Tester, & Rain didn't entice the sponsors, but now they are all gone, but Puma alone is going to get the job done??? Puma will still be able to practice with Koreans, his teammates, plus have tons of foriegn opportunities that are not currently available to him.
I am the Ginger King
Fermats_last
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
England336 Posts
July 26 2011 17:04 GMT
#1168
On July 27 2011 02:00 Grimsong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2011 01:57 Fermats_last wrote:
On July 27 2011 01:52 Grimsong wrote:
On July 27 2011 01:48 Fermats_last wrote:
On July 27 2011 01:38 originalred04 wrote:
@Fermats_last

In any major sport the stars usually end up in the major cities of that sport. Football, Futball, Baseball, Basketball etc small market teams thriving is the exception to the rule, not the rule. Those sports are viable because of the large markets, in this case TL, EG, OGS, Slayers etc.

Thank you EG for making SC2 more viable for the long term


This works if EG was 'a big city' of good players. Rather than 'a big city' of mediocre players with virtually no recent results aside from Idra. They didn't even get into the play offs in their purely foreigner team leage, where TL OGS Slayers weren't even present. TSL has players infinitely better than Incontrol, Axslav, StrifeCro, etc. They just aren't lucky enough to have the sponsorship YET.


Big city is big city, regardless of wins/losses.

The Lakers struggled in the mid 2000's, were they not a big city still? Did they not still generate more revenue than the majority of those small market teams that are more or less dead end. When it comes to marketting and potential profits, is a player best of in an obscure market (IE Milwaukee Bucks), or in a booming market (IE Los Angeles Lakers)? Similarly, regardless of results, EG has a pretty large pull/swing in the E-Sports scene. Don't think they have influence? Check out the other 500 or so pages between all of these separate threads that have sprung up.


Going Somewhere with more money and less skill. Is not going to help you improve as a player, it's just going to give you a bit more money, (which i'm sure he needs after winning $50k which TSL took 0% of). In a sport where your own skill can vastly depend on practice partners, this is a huge detriment.


Is it not detrimental that all he does is play in Korea, with Koreans, in a Korean market that is floundering? While not being contracted by TSL? Come on.

I heard it's wrong for Puma to want to maximize his profits, while still playing with the BEST PLAYERS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD, not just Korea. In tournaments such as MLG which garner a ton of attention and such. He's got a window to make money in the market as it is, EG needed another top tier player to partner with iDra. And he's still going to play against great gamers. His APM might go down 20 though. Oh no.


The 'BEST PLAYERS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD' are in Korea, uh why would his APM go down? he just won't have a proper environment to practice in, he can't speak fluent english and they can't speak Korean so they can't talk strategies particularly well, and Idra is the only person on EG with a remotely(key word) similar skill level to Puma
The road goes ever ever on, down from the door where it began
Fermats_last
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
England336 Posts
July 26 2011 17:05 GMT
#1169
On July 27 2011 02:04 originalred04 wrote:
Fruit Dealer, Tester, & Rain didn't entice the sponsors, but now they are all gone, but Puma alone is going to get the job done??? Puma will still be able to practice with Koreans, his teammates, plus have tons of foriegn opportunities that are not currently available to him.


What results did they post? Puma just won NASL with 80k viewers, what have FD Tester and rain done similar recently?
The road goes ever ever on, down from the door where it began
originalred04
Profile Joined July 2011
United States53 Posts
July 26 2011 17:06 GMT
#1170
If TSL's future was so rosy and sponsors were about to start making it rain hundro's on all of their lineup then all of these players would not have left. This is not a corporate store putting a mom n pop out of business.
I am the Ginger King
Angelbelow
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3728 Posts
July 26 2011 17:07 GMT
#1171
On July 27 2011 01:32 Fermats_last wrote:
Other than taking good players away from the teams that shaped them into good players what the fuck does EG do? It's entire mode of business is:
Wait for a small time team to create talent
Don't wait for long enough that the small time team is able to salary it's players well from the sponsorship the talented player can bring in from his big tournament wins.
Throw offers of large sums of money directly at the player who, because sponsorship and salaries have not been sorted out yet will see this as a great offer.
Sign new talented player
Leave Small time teams struggling to survive as just as they are about to become profitable their players are lured away from them.
Fuck the long term viability of the scene.

EG should really invest in it's own players rather than throwing money at other teams players untill they leave. Of course EG can offer a better deal to Puma right now, it's an already established business but if they gave it a month or two the extra money in sponsorship and tournaments Puma could bring in to TSL would rival that of EG's offer, they just don't give it a chance to happen.


Acquiring talent is the name of the game. Not everyone has the same level of talent, work ethic, vision, dedication, etc etc. Developing your own talent doesn't make sense when you have an opportunity to add star power.

And you speak as if Puma was forced to leave and never had a chance to thrive with TSL before he was ultimately ripped away from them. Grow up, puma is his own man and can make his own decisions too. He chose to leave TSL in addition to EG displaying interest. Blaming EG for not letting a small team develop peacefully has to be one of the worse arguments I've heard yet.
You may delay, but time will not. Current Music obsession: Opeth
originalred04
Profile Joined July 2011
United States53 Posts
July 26 2011 17:08 GMT
#1172
Oh I don't know other than winning a GSL and being code S level they have not done much. Your argument is that Puma will draw sponsorships, he alone is not enough, and should he sit there and not make money when he could be making money out of posterity for TSL? Fermats why don't you give back your next couple paychecks to your employer to show him how great of a person you are?
I am the Ginger King
Vertical
Profile Joined July 2011
Indonesia4317 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-26 17:09:18
July 26 2011 17:09 GMT
#1173
On July 27 2011 02:04 originalred04 wrote:
Fruit Dealer, Tester, & Rain didn't entice the sponsors, but now they are all gone, but Puma alone is going to get the job done??? Puma will still be able to practice with Koreans, his teammates, plus have tons of foriegn opportunities that are not currently available to him.


FD and tester leave because they want team with lesser training pressure
Rain leave because his father lives in the US

thats what i read from TSL Lee's respond
-Terran-
bonifaceviii
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2890 Posts
July 26 2011 17:11 GMT
#1174
On July 27 2011 02:05 Fermats_last wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2011 02:04 originalred04 wrote:
Fruit Dealer, Tester, & Rain didn't entice the sponsors, but now they are all gone, but Puma alone is going to get the job done??? Puma will still be able to practice with Koreans, his teammates, plus have tons of foriegn opportunities that are not currently available to him.


What results did they post? Puma just won NASL with 80k viewers, what have FD Tester and rain done similar recently?

You're assuming Korean sponsors give a shit about North American tournaments.
Stay a while and listen || http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354018
Torumfroll
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
290 Posts
July 26 2011 17:11 GMT
#1175
On July 27 2011 01:57 StiMMy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2011 01:49 Torumfroll wrote:
"Hello we have expressed our interest in player X. Even though hes not contracted to your team we felt the need to contact you since he is a part of your team/organization. Blah Blah..."
Showing a little respect is THAT hard. EG should have recognized TSL as an entity and not try to go through with something like this behind their backs. Yeah, Puma was supposed to talk to the coach, but they should have made an effort to speak with him as well, regardless of how Puma perceived how his talk with the coach went.

The Milkis thing is just ridiculous on their part. Milkis has no obligations towards anyone except himself on this forum, since as far as I know he is not a TL.net staff member. He translates because he enjoys contributing to the community, because there is a lot of interesting stuff to read on korean sites. Milkis is not a journalist and a forum post should not be a subject to journalistic rules and ethics, unless justified. He did make an effort to get a statement from EG, and they weren't interested in giving one at that time. Tough luck.


This shit disgusts me.

You're the type of person who would leave the doors of your car unlocked and then blame it on someone else when it got stolen.

If you honestly appreciate something, and care about it, you will protect it. Period.

TSL made a terrible business decision in leaving PuMa unprotected. EG capatilized on this mistake. Maybe you should all write EG letters with little hearts and pink lining telling them they should be "nicer".

Word's like disgusting and pathetic don't even begin to describe whats going on in this thread.


Haha ok, what the fuck is your problem? I'm not faulting EG for taking advantage of a favorable situation and picking up an amazing player without a contract. Several teams would probably have done the same given the opportunity. But as hundreds of pages of forum posts suggests, EG made a dick move and are now paying for it with a shitload of bad publicity in both the foreign and the korean scene. You can't possibly be too stupid to see that EG fucked up.
originalred04
Profile Joined July 2011
United States53 Posts
July 26 2011 17:12 GMT
#1176
Yea I read that as well, but with all 3 of them gone their chances of getting a sponsorship does not increase. EG and Puma did nothing wrong, if your business model doesn't work you change it or go out of business.
I am the Ginger King
Vertical
Profile Joined July 2011
Indonesia4317 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-26 17:17:17
July 26 2011 17:12 GMT
#1177
On July 27 2011 02:11 bonifaceviii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2011 02:05 Fermats_last wrote:
On July 27 2011 02:04 originalred04 wrote:
Fruit Dealer, Tester, & Rain didn't entice the sponsors, but now they are all gone, but Puma alone is going to get the job done??? Puma will still be able to practice with Koreans, his teammates, plus have tons of foriegn opportunities that are not currently available to him.


What results did they post? Puma just won NASL with 80k viewers, what have FD Tester and rain done similar recently?

You're assuming Korean sponsors give a shit about North American tournaments.


I believe they did
judging by the number of Korean player currently playing in foreign tournament
and the fact SlayeS sent alicia and ryung to compete in MLG Anaheim

im against EG anyway
but fermats argument is quite logical
-Terran-
purecarnagge
Profile Joined August 2010
719 Posts
July 26 2011 17:13 GMT
#1178
On July 27 2011 02:01 Fermats_last wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2011 01:57 originalred04 wrote:
@Ferments, obviously EG isn't a major city, this is online gaming, It is not difficult to draw the conclusion that they are the equivalent of a major city. They have the sponsors, and they have a fan base. Just because a small market city has good players doesn't mean they will be successful. I will not see Puma more than I would have otherwise. Incontrol, Idra, & Puma is a very solid core.

Also having sponsorships is not luck, it's diligent hard work.


Yah they have sponsors and a fan base. They don't have the players with the abilities to be good practice partners for Puma, apart from TvZ. I don't see Puma improving much with EG.

Yes and i'm sure TSL could have secured sponsors had EG not immediately taken away the player that would have enticed sponsors to choose TSL


Then maybe you should contract players before you send them out of the country to win tournaments on your teams behalf????

lightbulb moment or did the mouse fall of the wheel?
originalred04
Profile Joined July 2011
United States53 Posts
July 26 2011 17:14 GMT
#1179
@Torumfroll

How did EG fuck up?? I'm just wondering exactly where it is you think they messed up?
I am the Ginger King
Deekin[
Profile Joined December 2010
Serbia1713 Posts
July 26 2011 17:15 GMT
#1180
You give PuMa alot of cash and a good deal, but you have disgraced yourself with this transfer EG.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ CJ Entus fighting! I am a Leta, Hydra, Mind and (ofcourse) Firebathero fan. (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
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