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On July 26 2011 23:02 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 22:29 Copenap wrote:On July 26 2011 22:25 stratmatt wrote:On July 26 2011 22:23 Copenap wrote:On July 26 2011 21:57 stratmatt wrote:On July 26 2011 21:53 MrKn4rz wrote:On July 26 2011 21:50 stratmatt wrote:On July 26 2011 21:47 Siphyo wrote:When you say '*first* step' 48 times, it doesn't magically become true. You talked to PuMa at NASL, that was the *first* step. And even though informally talking to another person isn't a criminal activity, polling his interest in maybe joining EG was wrong. And it was the FIRST step. The *second* (cwidt?) step was PuMa talking to coach Lee, which should have been the third step. After talking to PuMa, which is or isn't fine depending on what actually was discussed, YOU (EG) should have directly contacted TSL, explaining that you talked with PuMa and that you would like the player to join EG's roster. How the fuck can you skip that step, and use the player as a shield between TSL and EG? Judging from coach Lee's interview, PuMa had a very hard time actually bringing up his issue within TSL, suffering for having to do the job EG should have done. You seem to be completely unable to put yourself in TSL's position. Imagine one of your top players starting to act strange, and when you ask what is up, he tells that another team has approached him to join up. He tells you that he already has decided for himself, and that despite the (in this case real) contract, he no longer wishes to be a perart of EG. How would you respond? I bet the same way coach Lee did, and most likely in a way worse manner. Stop being a hypocrite, admit that you were wrong and apologize to the people you have seriously harmed with your horrible way of doing things. Negotiating things with TSL is a decent first step in redeeming yourself and your team. On July 26 2011 21:17 Klaus1986 wrote:
Puma wanted on EG. EG wanted Puma. Puma is now EG. Looks like both parties are happy. Case closed. Cool story, if there were actually just two parties. What exactly is your experience in running a pro-gaming organization? You seem to think you know an awful lot about what EG SHOULD do. Can you qualify your expertise on the matter? lol Well the reaction of the community gives him right or do you think EG is happy about how this all went? The only thing EG neglected to consider is the relative noobish quality of the sc2 pro-gaming fanbase. It hasnt been around long enough for this type of stuff to become par for the course re: player transfers. You all will get over it by the 10th time it happens. Well nobody was upset when FXO took over a whole team so your post is pretty much not consistent and therefore useless for this discussion. 2 completely different situations. Thanks for helping to prove my point. Didn't realise you're just a troll and you actually can't argue, my bad... fOu didn't lose anything, they just gained money, new possibilites and practice-possibilties. FXO also didn't lose anything ( well except some money ). It's a deal where both parties and everyone included was happy. Them PuMa deal instead... well, I don't have to type everything again, do I ?
I would still argue that the shitstorm was not due to a "noobish community that cant handle player transfers" but mostly caused by poor handling of EG. They realised that and took actions acordingly.
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I think EG should just worry about winning rather than trying to control the damage they've caused. It's not like having a bad public image somehow prevents them from being able to win tournaments.
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I'm glad that PuMa decided to go with the team that was, overall, better for him. EG has gotten a bad rap for several things but they are a still a well sponsored, good team this is fully supportive of their players. My sincerest wishes that PuMa can accelerate his career now that he has a healthy team to back him up 
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I think people are overthinking the situation way too much here. It's not really hard to see why coach Lee is angry no matter how manner Puma/EG might have been in this situation. TSL is still a pretty new team who has nowhere near the resources of a team like EG yet. They've also had some pretty bad luck investing lots of resources in Tester/FD who didn't do squat for them in return. They would've offered Puma a contract eventually but right now they obviously can't offer him the same things EG can.
Whether EG is in the wrong or not is debatable, but no one can fault coach lee for being angry and reacting the way he did. It's just a simple case of the big time team coming in and taking the talent from the small timers. You can't blame Puma for doing what's best for him but you also can't expect his coach to take it lightly.
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Creamer.....I'm sad that EG even makes an attempt to reach out to people like yourself, EG did more than they should have, and are willing to do more than they need. If TSL valued him that much they should have been paying him, your gonna hate on a guy for taking a better job at a better place? That's ignorance at best.
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On July 26 2011 22:07 sp00n- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 21:45 stratmatt wrote:
Love all the sc2 'fans' treating puma like a litle kid who cant make his own decision because hes south korean and obligated to be 'loyal' to his team. Such latent racism... it makes me sick. Hey, another stupid american who knows nothing of loyalty or racism.
The irony is killing me.
Also, it's not loyalty that obligates you to work for someone who doesn't pay you.
Actually, nothing obligates you to work for someone who doesn't pay you.
Let me drill this down in, again.
Nothing obligates you to work for someone who doesn't pay you.
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Pffft, retroactive compensation??? EG should stick to its guns, you guys did nothing wrong.
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On July 26 2011 23:20 Nightfall.589 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 22:07 sp00n- wrote:On July 26 2011 21:45 stratmatt wrote:
Love all the sc2 'fans' treating puma like a litle kid who cant make his own decision because hes south korean and obligated to be 'loyal' to his team. Such latent racism... it makes me sick. Hey, another stupid american who knows nothing of loyalty or racism. The irony is killing me. Also, it's not loyalty that obligates you to work for someone who doesn't pay you. Actually, nothing obligates you to work for someone who doesn't pay you. Let me drill this down in, again. Nothing obligates you to work for someone who doesn't pay you.
Americans are a race of people.
Hot diggity damn, this is new to me!
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Decent explanation. Unfortunately, I am unable to put my emotions aside.
-1
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On July 26 2011 23:22 Hawk wrote:
Pffft, retroactive compensation??? EG should stick to its guns, you guys did nothing wrong.
Na dude EG is just a terrible organization!
Laughable that people are still calling out EG on this at all, its unfortunate they'd even have to dangle the notion that they'd pay TSL a dime and even THAT isn't enough to silence the unjust criticisms flying in from every angle. Pretty disappointing.
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I believe TSL was one of the first teams to give out salaries, and Fruitdealer was one of the highest paid players, but left with trickster to ST. Fruitdealer even remarked that he did not agree with the direction the team is going. Maybe Mr. Lee was not making the right decisions for these players in the end.
With all that being said. Why is it there is no uproar towards ST for talking to Fruitdealer and Trickster, is it because it was another Korean team. Fruit was looking out for number one as is Puma. The so called sensationalism made by Mr Lee and Milkies just drove up the drama. Puma only got recognition by TSL because he blew away NASL. Before that he was just a practice partner for some of the bigger names on the team. He probably felt it was time to move on where he was more marketable. All this speculation and grandiose writings can not even cut into what all these players are thinking and what the team was really doing before Puma became famous.
If Puma did not win the NASL would he even be mentioned right now. Rain left for reasons as well. That's 4 players who have left team TSL. So EG picked up a player who was not appreciated until NASL. Maybe a deeper look into TSL should be in order.
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Being American is a nationality, not a race, but no matter how you look at it, Puma was not getting paid, how about a thank you to EG for putting some paper in that boys bank account!
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While the situation still stinks for TSL, I think that this post has helped clarify some of the rougher points of the transaction. Although a retroactive deal seems somewhat bizzare (o? you don't want to take 100$ for pumas contract? that's too bad hes already ours.) I think it at least shows some initiative to make things right.
While I do think EG deserves some flak for the way they approached the situation I don't think they deserved the total shit show that ensued. This statement has turned me from a -1 fan back to a neutral fan, however I will be watching them cautiously.
All in all though best of luck to TSL, EG, and Puma!
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EG highly compensates it's players, is very competitive, and loyal to the same players. TSL has lost there 4 biggest names in recent months, and blew this whole situation out of proportion....come on people your really gonna point a finger at EG?
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If Puma is happy, then I am happy.
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On July 26 2011 23:27 Justanx wrote:
I believe TSL was one of the first teams to give out salaries, and Fruitdealer was one of the highest paid players, but left with trickster to ST. Fruitdealer even remarked that he did not agree with the direction the team is going. Maybe Mr. Lee was not making the right decisions for these players in the end.
With all that being said. Why is it there is no uproar towards ST for talking to Fruitdealer and Trickster, is it because it was another Korean team. Fruit was looking out for number one as is Puma. The so called sensationalism made by Mr Lee and Milkies just drove up the drama. Puma only got recognition by TSL because he blew away NASL. Before that he was just a practice partner for some of the bigger names on the team. He probably felt it was time to move on where he was more marketable. All this speculation and grandiose writings can not even cut into what all these players are thinking and what the team was really doing before Puma became famous.
If Puma did not win the NASL would he even be mentioned right now. Rain left for reasons as well. That's 4 players who have left team TSL. So EG picked up a player who was not appreciated until NASL. Maybe a deeper look into TSL should be in order.
Let me explain. Fruitdealer and Tester left for 2reasons afaik. Firstly TSL was implementing a more strict training schedule, because they had trouble finding sponsors due to the missing of good results. Fruitdealer and Tester didnt want that. Furthermore it was said that Coach Lee couldnt realise what he promised to them and he therefore could understand why they wanted to leave. So you cant really blame Coach Lee for doing what is needed to get new sponsors in order to take care of your players.
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On July 26 2011 23:36 Copenap wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 23:27 Justanx wrote:
I believe TSL was one of the first teams to give out salaries, and Fruitdealer was one of the highest paid players, but left with trickster to ST. Fruitdealer even remarked that he did not agree with the direction the team is going. Maybe Mr. Lee was not making the right decisions for these players in the end.
With all that being said. Why is it there is no uproar towards ST for talking to Fruitdealer and Trickster, is it because it was another Korean team. Fruit was looking out for number one as is Puma. The so called sensationalism made by Mr Lee and Milkies just drove up the drama. Puma only got recognition by TSL because he blew away NASL. Before that he was just a practice partner for some of the bigger names on the team. He probably felt it was time to move on where he was more marketable. All this speculation and grandiose writings can not even cut into what all these players are thinking and what the team was really doing before Puma became famous.
If Puma did not win the NASL would he even be mentioned right now. Rain left for reasons as well. That's 4 players who have left team TSL. So EG picked up a player who was not appreciated until NASL. Maybe a deeper look into TSL should be in order. Let me explain. Fruitdealer and Tester left for 2reasons afaik. Firstly TSL was implementing a more strict training schedule, because they had trouble finding sponsors due to the missing of good results. Fruitdealer and Tester didnt want that. Furthermore it was said that Coach Lee couldnt realise what he promised to them and he therefore could understand why they wanted to leave. So you cant really blame Coach Lee for doing what is needed to get new sponsors in order to take care of your players.
Yet, he can't understand why an unpaid, uncontracted player isn't in any way obligated to say two words (Or put their future in his hands), if they wanted to leave? Or how an organisation that is no way indebted to him, can't negotiate on their own with an unpaid, uncontracted player?
Again, if Coach Lee wanted to maintain the team, he could have contracted Puma.
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On July 26 2011 23:39 Nightfall.589 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 23:36 Copenap wrote:On July 26 2011 23:27 Justanx wrote:
I believe TSL was one of the first teams to give out salaries, and Fruitdealer was one of the highest paid players, but left with trickster to ST. Fruitdealer even remarked that he did not agree with the direction the team is going. Maybe Mr. Lee was not making the right decisions for these players in the end.
With all that being said. Why is it there is no uproar towards ST for talking to Fruitdealer and Trickster, is it because it was another Korean team. Fruit was looking out for number one as is Puma. The so called sensationalism made by Mr Lee and Milkies just drove up the drama. Puma only got recognition by TSL because he blew away NASL. Before that he was just a practice partner for some of the bigger names on the team. He probably felt it was time to move on where he was more marketable. All this speculation and grandiose writings can not even cut into what all these players are thinking and what the team was really doing before Puma became famous.
If Puma did not win the NASL would he even be mentioned right now. Rain left for reasons as well. That's 4 players who have left team TSL. So EG picked up a player who was not appreciated until NASL. Maybe a deeper look into TSL should be in order. Let me explain. Fruitdealer and Tester left for 2reasons afaik. Firstly TSL was implementing a more strict training schedule, because they had trouble finding sponsors due to the missing of good results. Fruitdealer and Tester didnt want that. Furthermore it was said that Coach Lee couldnt realise what he promised to them and he therefore could understand why they wanted to leave. So you cant really blame Coach Lee for doing what is needed to get new sponsors in order to take care of your players. Yet, he can't understand why an unpaid, uncontracted player isn't in any way obligated to say two words (Or put their future in his hands), if they wanted to leave? Again, if Coach Lee wanted to maintain the team, he could have contracted Puma.
Na dude, Koreans dont use contracts. Nevermind that Korea had Kespa in BW.
Honestly, don't bother reasoning. It won't get you anywhere but running in circles trying to explain very logical processes to people. While they make any excuse possible to continue to put down EG.
EDIT: Once the contract excuse is used, the Milikis subject follow closely. Just a heads up.
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Appreciate Alex speaking out on this, but I still feel like they (EG) haven't understood what caused most of the shitstorm (as I see it), which is that EG did not contact TSL before approaching the player. Obviously if you talk to the player first he's going to be very intrigued by the shitload of money just waiting to fall into his lap. The respectful (respect seems to be a theme in the OP) thing would be to actually approach TSL first. I really dislike EG's approach to the situation, but to each his own. Hopefully they learn from this shitstorm.
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On July 26 2011 23:25 h3nG wrote:
Decent explanation. Unfortunately, I am unable to put my emotions aside.
-1
That pretty much sums up the issue. Emotional response rather then using that thing we refer to as logic and reason. Also recall reading an article that people, which confront with new information that invalidates old information they will still disregard it if they've already accepted the first round as fact. A little bit better if they are skeptical of the original information, then people are better able to update their views.
I feel EG still needs to bolster their lineup. Hope they sign more heavy hitters in the coming weeks/months. A heavy hitting Protoss I think should be their next addition.
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EPT
