|
On July 26 2011 22:23 Copenap wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 21:57 stratmatt wrote:On July 26 2011 21:53 MrKn4rz wrote:On July 26 2011 21:50 stratmatt wrote:On July 26 2011 21:47 Siphyo wrote:When you say '*first* step' 48 times, it doesn't magically become true. You talked to PuMa at NASL, that was the *first* step. And even though informally talking to another person isn't a criminal activity, polling his interest in maybe joining EG was wrong. And it was the FIRST step. The *second* (cwidt?) step was PuMa talking to coach Lee, which should have been the third step. After talking to PuMa, which is or isn't fine depending on what actually was discussed, YOU (EG) should have directly contacted TSL, explaining that you talked with PuMa and that you would like the player to join EG's roster. How the fuck can you skip that step, and use the player as a shield between TSL and EG? Judging from coach Lee's interview, PuMa had a very hard time actually bringing up his issue within TSL, suffering for having to do the job EG should have done. You seem to be completely unable to put yourself in TSL's position. Imagine one of your top players starting to act strange, and when you ask what is up, he tells that another team has approached him to join up. He tells you that he already has decided for himself, and that despite the (in this case real) contract, he no longer wishes to be a part of EG. How would you respond? I bet the same way coach Lee did, and most likely in a way worse manner. Stop being a hypocrite, admit that you were wrong and apologize to the people you have seriously harmed with your horrible way of doing things. Negotiating things with TSL is a decent first step in redeeming yourself and your team. On July 26 2011 21:17 Klaus1986 wrote:
Puma wanted on EG. EG wanted Puma. Puma is now EG. Looks like both parties are happy. Case closed. Cool story, if there were actually just two parties. What exactly is your experience in running a pro-gaming organization? You seem to think you know an awful lot about what EG SHOULD do. Can you qualify your expertise on the matter? lol Well the reaction of the community gives him right or do you think EG is happy about how this all went? The only thing EG neglected to consider is the relative noobish quality of the sc2 pro-gaming fanbase. It hasnt been around long enough for this type of stuff to become par for the course re: player transfers. You all will get over it by the 10th time it happens. Well nobody was upset when FXO took over a whole team so your post is pretty much not consistent and therefore useless for this discussion.
FXO didn't call Coach Lee either!? Man... some people...
|
On July 26 2011 22:24 stratmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 22:23 Clbull wrote:
This whole fiasco could have probably been avoided if you negotiated through TSL's coach directly rather than through PuMa first and foremost. Furthermore, it's surprising that out of all the players who were on a contract and were actually given a salary, PuMa was not one of them.
Considering PuMa is one of the best Korean players to ever just explode onto the scene, was actually one of the main practice partners for Flash of all Brood War bonjwas, and made it through the ball-busting single elimination open tournament of the NASL, and then wiped out everybody to reach the top.
But I think the fact that PuMa wasn't on a contract changes things a bit. EXACTLY. Imagine being In Puma's shoes and your coach wont even give you a contract/salary for being such a top-level player. Congrats to Puma. EG FIGHTING!!!
"wont even give you a contract"
has he won anything before nasl? no
has he been a part of the team since the beginning? no
he was not even code A...
but its ok...eg is one of your favorite teams and you want to defend them.
|
On July 26 2011 22:25 stratmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 22:23 Copenap wrote:On July 26 2011 21:57 stratmatt wrote:On July 26 2011 21:53 MrKn4rz wrote:On July 26 2011 21:50 stratmatt wrote:On July 26 2011 21:47 Siphyo wrote:When you say '*first* step' 48 times, it doesn't magically become true. You talked to PuMa at NASL, that was the *first* step. And even though informally talking to another person isn't a criminal activity, polling his interest in maybe joining EG was wrong. And it was the FIRST step. The *second* (cwidt?) step was PuMa talking to coach Lee, which should have been the third step. After talking to PuMa, which is or isn't fine depending on what actually was discussed, YOU (EG) should have directly contacted TSL, explaining that you talked with PuMa and that you would like the player to join EG's roster. How the fuck can you skip that step, and use the player as a shield between TSL and EG? Judging from coach Lee's interview, PuMa had a very hard time actually bringing up his issue within TSL, suffering for having to do the job EG should have done. You seem to be completely unable to put yourself in TSL's position. Imagine one of your top players starting to act strange, and when you ask what is up, he tells that another team has approached him to join up. He tells you that he already has decided for himself, and that despite the (in this case real) contract, he no longer wishes to be a perart of EG. How would you respond? I bet the same way coach Lee did, and most likely in a way worse manner. Stop being a hypocrite, admit that you were wrong and apologize to the people you have seriously harmed with your horrible way of doing things. Negotiating things with TSL is a decent first step in redeeming yourself and your team. On July 26 2011 21:17 Klaus1986 wrote:
Puma wanted on EG. EG wanted Puma. Puma is now EG. Looks like both parties are happy. Case closed. Cool story, if there were actually just two parties. What exactly is your experience in running a pro-gaming organization? You seem to think you know an awful lot about what EG SHOULD do. Can you qualify your expertise on the matter? lol Well the reaction of the community gives him right or do you think EG is happy about how this all went? The only thing EG neglected to consider is the relative noobish quality of the sc2 pro-gaming fanbase. It hasnt been around long enough for this type of stuff to become par for the course re: player transfers. You all will get over it by the 10th time it happens. Well nobody was upset when FXO took over a whole team so your post is pretty much not consistent and therefore useless for this discussion. 2 completely different situations. Thanks for helping to prove my point.
Didn't realise you're just a troll and you actually can't argue, my bad...
|
Handled very well by EG the whole way and I think it was good they waited to make a statement till they had all the info and the transaction was basically complete. They have no obligation to explain this player pick up to anybody in the public but they did anyway. They approached an uncontracted player about joined there team then let him mill on it then approch his coach on the issue. I don't see why it was handled badly if he was uncontracted sure you could have gone to the coach but what if he was one of these Korean's who thinks he's better than everyone because your not Korean(which sounds like it from his rush to the media). Then the talks break down you never hear if the players interested and wtf do you do then.
|
On July 26 2011 22:29 Copenap wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 22:25 stratmatt wrote:On July 26 2011 22:23 Copenap wrote:On July 26 2011 21:57 stratmatt wrote:On July 26 2011 21:53 MrKn4rz wrote:On July 26 2011 21:50 stratmatt wrote:On July 26 2011 21:47 Siphyo wrote:When you say '*first* step' 48 times, it doesn't magically become true. You talked to PuMa at NASL, that was the *first* step. And even though informally talking to another person isn't a criminal activity, polling his interest in maybe joining EG was wrong. And it was the FIRST step. The *second* (cwidt?) step was PuMa talking to coach Lee, which should have been the third step. After talking to PuMa, which is or isn't fine depending on what actually was discussed, YOU (EG) should have directly contacted TSL, explaining that you talked with PuMa and that you would like the player to join EG's roster. How the fuck can you skip that step, and use the player as a shield between TSL and EG? Judging from coach Lee's interview, PuMa had a very hard time actually bringing up his issue within TSL, suffering for having to do the job EG should have done. You seem to be completely unable to put yourself in TSL's position. Imagine one of your top players starting to act strange, and when you ask what is up, he tells that another team has approached him to join up. He tells you that he already has decided for himself, and that despite the (in this case real) contract, he no longer wishes to be a perart of EG. How would you respond? I bet the same way coach Lee did, and most likely in a way worse manner. Stop being a hypocrite, admit that you were wrong and apologize to the people you have seriously harmed with your horrible way of doing things. Negotiating things with TSL is a decent first step in redeeming yourself and your team. On July 26 2011 21:17 Klaus1986 wrote:
Puma wanted on EG. EG wanted Puma. Puma is now EG. Looks like both parties are happy. Case closed. Cool story, if there were actually just two parties. What exactly is your experience in running a pro-gaming organization? You seem to think you know an awful lot about what EG SHOULD do. Can you qualify your expertise on the matter? lol Well the reaction of the community gives him right or do you think EG is happy about how this all went? The only thing EG neglected to consider is the relative noobish quality of the sc2 pro-gaming fanbase. It hasnt been around long enough for this type of stuff to become par for the course re: player transfers. You all will get over it by the 10th time it happens. Well nobody was upset when FXO took over a whole team so your post is pretty much not consistent and therefore useless for this discussion. 2 completely different situations. Thanks for helping to prove my point. Didn't realise you're just a troll and you actually can't argue, my bad...
Then a troll is actually right? I feel the universe collapsing...
|
On July 26 2011 22:01 Spitfire wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 18:53 Talin wrote:
I think your perception of the real world is somewhat warped by the media. You choose to accept the things that are sly and borderline nefarious because you're convinced that it's somehow "normal" and that it's pointless to expect the scene to grow in another direction. But this quite simply isn't true - it's just that people making money off of it would want you to believe it is and to meekly accept it as a part of the sport you follow as either "something that's perfectly normal" or "something that's ugly, but ultimately still normal".
I think it's important that the people who are in the position to do so (which is to say the fans who aren't financially or otherwise tied to any of the organizations) realize that "business" is NOT something that should have free reign over Starcraft and to keep overly "ambitious" organizations in check by dishing out criticism that stings (and stings very very hard) every time they make a move that compromises the fairness, integrity, manners and standards of good behaviour that we have and that we expect. In all honesty, this whole issue with Puma in itself isn't that all big or that horrible, but it's as good place to make a stand and a point as any. And moreover, EG's reputation had already been damaged (in SC2 too, let alone other games) - with Puma, they've overstepped their bounds one too many times.
Comparing Starcraft to professional sports is a case of apples and oranges if there's ever been one. Arguments based on analogies between professional sports and e-sports are by default very weak and very wrong - because there quite simply isn't all that much that football and Starcraft have in common. That's an understatement - there's almost NOTHING that they have in common. The only thing they have in common are common descriptors like "sport", "game" and "competition" - which just isn't enough to back up any of the arguments that usually rest on these analogies.
If you want to look at the "real world", look at the actual e-sports and all the attempts to grow an e-sports scene in the west, because for us, that is the real world. Football and basketball with the ridiculous amounts of money going around everywhere, billions of followers and hundreds of years of history are actually NOT the real world relative to what we're talking about. It's as far from the real world as anything could conceivably be. In some ways this is unfortunate, because we would want Starcraft to grow to that point, even though it won't go anywhere close in the conceivable future. In some ways it is very fortunate because we get to lay the foundations and do things differently and do things better.
Going back to the real world of e-sports, if you look at every serious western attempt at turning a competitive game scene into a "professional" (and I use the term loosely) sport, you'll see a pattern emerging. In each case, someone at some point was willing to dump money in it. Maybe even too much money for the time. In each case, the fledgling scene turned into a predatory business environment. Two to five years later, what was built initially imploded to the point of no recovery, bridges were burned, and many of the "businesses" were left scraping for money to pay for the contracts - yes, the same contracts that so many people seem to think are the solutions to everything. "What's the problem TSL, just give them contracts" has been nonchalantly posted so many times so far.
The real problem is that this predatory, competitive environment that so many people are so willing to welcome to Starcraft is actually killing e-sports (yep, there I've said it). It has killed before. It will kill again. If Starcraft too goes in the direction EG would have it, the instant gratification direction, the "WE have the money NOW and FUCK YOU" direction, the direction where one team or organization causes harm to another outside the real playing ground (the game) for profit or to "get ahead" - it's going to happen again. It just will.
This isn't the kind of game where you play survival of the fittest and win - when you do that, everyone loses. And I understand (reading through a lot of General forum threads as well) that this is an ideological, borderline religious issue for some people, but for once realize that Starcraft isn't a "market". It just can't sustain competition of that sort, there's nothing here that can feed the petty business greed and ambition of organizations like EG in the long run. The only competition that can go on in Stracraft is competition in the actual game. Teams and organizations aren't really supposed to be competitors at this point, but allies - in nourishing and growing Starcraft. If you screw them over, you screw over your own future.
And see this is the big problem with EG - they just don't care, and unfortunately they can afford to not care. Because they have this whole "e-sport organization" infrastructure, they have Justin Wong on the side and in a year or two or five they can just jump ship to the next hit e-sport title or whatever they smell as a perspective one. The point is that their fate isn't tied to the fate of SC2 (like TSL's is), and they behave accordingly. This is why every time I see EG, Fnatic, SK and Complexity involved in something, there's this big alarm bell going off in my head. I didn't really want to drag down the names of the other 3, because to my knowledge they've done nothing wrong in SC2 yet, but they all function on the same principle. EG is here because SC2 is the next big thing, not because Alex Garfield is so passionate and cares about the game or the community or the scene. In a way, they're only here to leech - as AG said himself, he's running a business. Business is essentially all about leeching while giving as little as possible.
On the other hand, a team like TSL is made up entirely from people who are passionate and care about Starcraft (including coach Lee). Teams like TSL create and build what SC2 is as a competitive game, getting almost nothing in return at this point in time. That's why a team like TSL is ten times more valuable to SC2 than a business organization like EG.
And indeed, before we've had SK Telecom and Samsung in Brood War, Brood War was the same - it was a bunch of guys giving out of their own pockets and scraping for small sponsorships to live, sleep, eat and train together so that they can compete in the game that they love. Just read up a bit on the 4U part of history of a team now known as SKT1. Big corporations moved in and established their own teams when the time was right and when investing so much into BW was justified - and once again, they didn't create a predatory business environment where everything goes, but they decided to operate as allies (KeSPA) to regulate and grow the sport together.
So instead of comparing SC2 to football and basketball, why not look up to the ONLY working electronic sport in human history that has long-term popularity and success? As far as applicable knowledge goes, I think we can learn much more from KeSPA and Brood War than we can from what goes on in the business world of football and basketball.
As far as business in e-sports goes, I would also like to point the difference between a petty business that runs on sponsorships and thin air (EG) to a real company that supports not only their own Starcraft team, but actively supports the scene as well. I'm talking about FXOpen - FXOpen is big enough that they don't have to be sly and underhanded in their workings to make their presence known, and they're big enough that they can contribute to the scene beyond what benefits them and their team. I don't think that there's a doubt in anyone's mind that FXOpen could have the SC2 dream team before tomorrow if they wanted to - but there's no reason for them to want that. They want their involvement with Starcraft to pay off in the long run, and that can only happen if Starcraft itself grows.
With EG it's the opposite. They technically bought Puma, a player they neither really need nor can really support. If they keep him in Korea, he's isolated from the rest of his "team", as well as isolated from a good practice environment. If they keep him in the US, his skill will plummet down faster than EG's reputation these past few days. The only reason they actually got Puma was for the sake of getting a top player alone (they've done the same with Idra and Demuslim before). They only care about the image of Puma parading in an EG shirt as a top Korean player. If he even happens to win a foreign tournament or two on top of that before his skill and career goes downhill (much like Idra's and Demuslim's, funny that), that's just a nice bonus feat.
Why do you think they got Grubby of all people? To support his growth as an SC2 player or to leech off of his WC3/e-sport legend image?
Yeah.
PS. See I can write longer posts than Alex Garfield. I agree completely with the principal of what you're saying. Although I dont think EG are the evil organization you're making them out to be. I think they're just figuring out how to do things in this young industry, the same way everyone else is. I dont think they've done anything particularly malicious in this case either, they just made some errors in judgement. The reaction of coach Lee and the internets may have been kneejerk, but it wasnt exactly unpredictable. Its just a learning process for everyone involved. TSL know they should tread more carefully in future and the Korean teams now understand one of the ramifications of Esports growth. Puma IMO is blameless in all of this and the most important thing is that everything works out for him. But I agree with your point that we dont have to resign ourselves to Esports becoming a corrupt industry just because the same has happened to other growing industries. Esports is a young industry being built by younger generations, we dont have to do things the same way as older, stupider generations.
wow talin i completely agree with everything youve said here...
|
On July 26 2011 09:12 Dubzex wrote:
You are still an asshole for what you said to Milkis.
Not quite the terminiolgy I would have used but yeah indeed!
|
On July 26 2011 22:25 thepuppyassassin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 22:23 Copenap wrote:On July 26 2011 21:57 stratmatt wrote:On July 26 2011 21:53 MrKn4rz wrote:On July 26 2011 21:50 stratmatt wrote:On July 26 2011 21:47 Siphyo wrote:When you say '*first* step' 48 times, it doesn't magically become true. You talked to PuMa at NASL, that was the *first* step. And even though informally talking to another person isn't a criminal activity, polling his interest in maybe joining EG was wrong. And it was the FIRST step. The *second* (cwidt?) step was PuMa talking to coach Lee, which should have been the third step. After talking to PuMa, which is or isn't fine depending on what actually was discussed, YOU (EG) should have directly contacted TSL, explaining that you talked with PuMa and that you would like the player to join EG's roster. How the fuck can you skip that step, and use the player as a shield between TSL and EG? Judging from coach Lee's interview, PuMa had a very hard time actually bringing up his issue within TSL, suffering for having to do the job EG should have done. You seem to be completely unable to put yourself in TSL's position. Imagine one of your top players starting to act strange, and when you ask what is up, he tells that another team has approached him to join up. He tells you that he already has decided for himself, and that despite the (in this case real) contract, he no longer wishes to be a part of EG. How would you respond? I bet the same way coach Lee did, and most likely in a way worse manner. Stop being a hypocrite, admit that you were wrong and apologize to the people you have seriously harmed with your horrible way of doing things. Negotiating things with TSL is a decent first step in redeeming yourself and your team. On July 26 2011 21:17 Klaus1986 wrote:
Puma wanted on EG. EG wanted Puma. Puma is now EG. Looks like both parties are happy. Case closed. Cool story, if there were actually just two parties. What exactly is your experience in running a pro-gaming organization? You seem to think you know an awful lot about what EG SHOULD do. Can you qualify your expertise on the matter? lol Well the reaction of the community gives him right or do you think EG is happy about how this all went? The only thing EG neglected to consider is the relative noobish quality of the sc2 pro-gaming fanbase. It hasnt been around long enough for this type of stuff to become par for the course re: player transfers. You all will get over it by the 10th time it happens. Well nobody was upset when FXO took over a whole team so your post is pretty much not consistent and therefore useless for this discussion. FXO didn't call Coach Lee either!? Man... some people...
lol
i guess u didn't hear about the situation behind FXO absorbing FOU so maybe u shouldn't use that as a counter argument lol and thats also the reason why no one was really upset about it
edit: this was directed at copenap
|
On July 26 2011 22:25 thepuppyassassin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 22:23 Copenap wrote:On July 26 2011 21:57 stratmatt wrote:On July 26 2011 21:53 MrKn4rz wrote:On July 26 2011 21:50 stratmatt wrote:On July 26 2011 21:47 Siphyo wrote:When you say '*first* step' 48 times, it doesn't magically become true. You talked to PuMa at NASL, that was the *first* step. And even though informally talking to another person isn't a criminal activity, polling his interest in maybe joining EG was wrong. And it was the FIRST step. The *second* (cwidt?) step was PuMa talking to coach Lee, which should have been the third step. After talking to PuMa, which is or isn't fine depending on what actually was discussed, YOU (EG) should have directly contacted TSL, explaining that you talked with PuMa and that you would like the player to join EG's roster. How the fuck can you skip that step, and use the player as a shield between TSL and EG? Judging from coach Lee's interview, PuMa had a very hard time actually bringing up his issue within TSL, suffering for having to do the job EG should have done. You seem to be completely unable to put yourself in TSL's position. Imagine one of your top players starting to act strange, and when you ask what is up, he tells that another team has approached him to join up. He tells you that he already has decided for himself, and that despite the (in this case real) contract, he no longer wishes to be a part of EG. How would you respond? I bet the same way coach Lee did, and most likely in a way worse manner. Stop being a hypocrite, admit that you were wrong and apologize to the people you have seriously harmed with your horrible way of doing things. Negotiating things with TSL is a decent first step in redeeming yourself and your team. On July 26 2011 21:17 Klaus1986 wrote:
Puma wanted on EG. EG wanted Puma. Puma is now EG. Looks like both parties are happy. Case closed. Cool story, if there were actually just two parties. What exactly is your experience in running a pro-gaming organization? You seem to think you know an awful lot about what EG SHOULD do. Can you qualify your expertise on the matter? lol Well the reaction of the community gives him right or do you think EG is happy about how this all went? The only thing EG neglected to consider is the relative noobish quality of the sc2 pro-gaming fanbase. It hasnt been around long enough for this type of stuff to become par for the course re: player transfers. You all will get over it by the 10th time it happens. Well nobody was upset when FXO took over a whole team so your post is pretty much not consistent and therefore useless for this discussion. FXO didn't call Coach Lee either!? Man... some people...
Sorry I don't understand your post, care to elaborate?
My point was, that the shitstorm for EG wasnt just because of "a" player transfer but because how they did it. FXO seems to have done everything right and therefore no bashing.
|
On July 26 2011 22:33 JohnnyBlaze420 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 22:25 thepuppyassassin wrote:On July 26 2011 22:23 Copenap wrote:On July 26 2011 21:57 stratmatt wrote:On July 26 2011 21:53 MrKn4rz wrote:On July 26 2011 21:50 stratmatt wrote:On July 26 2011 21:47 Siphyo wrote:When you say '*first* step' 48 times, it doesn't magically become true. You talked to PuMa at NASL, that was the *first* step. And even though informally talking to another person isn't a criminal activity, polling his interest in maybe joining EG was wrong. And it was the FIRST step. The *second* (cwidt?) step was PuMa talking to coach Lee, which should have been the third step. After talking to PuMa, which is or isn't fine depending on what actually was discussed, YOU (EG) should have directly contacted TSL, explaining that you talked with PuMa and that you would like the player to join EG's roster. How the fuck can you skip that step, and use the player as a shield between TSL and EG? Judging from coach Lee's interview, PuMa had a very hard time actually bringing up his issue within TSL, suffering for having to do the job EG should have done. You seem to be completely unable to put yourself in TSL's position. Imagine one of your top players starting to act strange, and when you ask what is up, he tells that another team has approached him to join up. He tells you that he already has decided for himself, and that despite the (in this case real) contract, he no longer wishes to be a part of EG. How would you respond? I bet the same way coach Lee did, and most likely in a way worse manner. Stop being a hypocrite, admit that you were wrong and apologize to the people you have seriously harmed with your horrible way of doing things. Negotiating things with TSL is a decent first step in redeeming yourself and your team. On July 26 2011 21:17 Klaus1986 wrote:
Puma wanted on EG. EG wanted Puma. Puma is now EG. Looks like both parties are happy. Case closed. Cool story, if there were actually just two parties. What exactly is your experience in running a pro-gaming organization? You seem to think you know an awful lot about what EG SHOULD do. Can you qualify your expertise on the matter? lol Well the reaction of the community gives him right or do you think EG is happy about how this all went? The only thing EG neglected to consider is the relative noobish quality of the sc2 pro-gaming fanbase. It hasnt been around long enough for this type of stuff to become par for the course re: player transfers. You all will get over it by the 10th time it happens. Well nobody was upset when FXO took over a whole team so your post is pretty much not consistent and therefore useless for this discussion. FXO didn't call Coach Lee either!? Man... some people... lol i guess u didn't hear about the situation behind FXO absorbing FOU so maybe u shouldn't use that as a counter argument lol and thats also the reason why no one was really upset about it edit: this was directed at copenap
You too Sir, obviously misinterpreted my post, please read my explenation above.
|
On July 26 2011 22:12 NightAngel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 22:09 Zarahtra wrote:On July 26 2011 22:01 Spitfire wrote:
Although I dont think EG are the evil organization you're making them out to be. I think they're just figuring out how to do things in this young industry, the same way everyone else is. There are many things that annoy me about all this, one is that they already knew how things worked: EGalex wrote:
We have already built strong relationships with the management of other Korean professional teams. In fact, over the past month alone, we have been in talks with several Korean teams (read: after speaking with management first, not players first) regarding potential recruitment and collaboration. These managers know who they are, and they know that we have approached their teams honorably and respectfully. In this case, they just seem to have thought they'd get away with it or I really don't know what they felt was unique with PuMa's position. So instead of doing EG what PuMa wanted, they should disregard that, and do what he didn't want? So many people here seem to have complete tunnel vision about this issue. Do you listen to the un-signed, non-salaried employee, or do you go to his boss to see if he is interested in finding a much, much better job?
For them to listen to him, they need to have already talked to him.
And yeah, I still disagree with them listening to him, since it's quite frankly stupid. Even if PuMa thought he had a good relationship with Mr.Lee(which I'm sure he did), it obviously took him quite some time to get the nerve to talk to him(like Mr.Lee and other noticed the days following NASL). EG should've recognized it would be hard for him and handled the talk themselves, saying that they had an interest in PuMa. Ontop of that, making PuMa talk to him, like I've said before in this thread, just offered Mr.Lee one response "If you want to go, then I won't stop you", which he seems to have said(not word for word obviously).
|
hope this is all true..... gl gl gl
|
I suppose that they "bought" PuMa with the idea of actually winning something.
I don't suppose PuMA whines about imbalance either.
|
EG can't do anything without it turning into a shitstorm. Even their own team tournament was a bit of a PR disaster because of the bitching about server rules. I think they should embrace it and actually live up to their name instead of trying to appease a community that's never going to be happy with them. Less AG, more SirScoots being awesome on Twitter.
|
I am shocked that coach Lee's drama is actually motivating EG to pay him off after the fact.
Tears mean as much as contracts, I guess.
|
I think this is overall just good. And I love EG and Puma, now I can superlove EGPuma!!! 
|
EG fighting, I'm an even bigger EG fan now, although maybe they should embrace the big bad corporate angle, all press is good press lol
|
A lot of you guys going on a lot about the "honour" or "professionalism" in the korean scene and how eg is somehow corrupting it.
This is the same system with match fixing, a wall of silence around child rape and treats players likes slaves?
If eg are somehow going against that system, i am all for it.
|
On July 26 2011 22:29 Copenap wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 22:25 stratmatt wrote:On July 26 2011 22:23 Copenap wrote:On July 26 2011 21:57 stratmatt wrote:On July 26 2011 21:53 MrKn4rz wrote:On July 26 2011 21:50 stratmatt wrote:On July 26 2011 21:47 Siphyo wrote:When you say '*first* step' 48 times, it doesn't magically become true. You talked to PuMa at NASL, that was the *first* step. And even though informally talking to another person isn't a criminal activity, polling his interest in maybe joining EG was wrong. And it was the FIRST step. The *second* (cwidt?) step was PuMa talking to coach Lee, which should have been the third step. After talking to PuMa, which is or isn't fine depending on what actually was discussed, YOU (EG) should have directly contacted TSL, explaining that you talked with PuMa and that you would like the player to join EG's roster. How the fuck can you skip that step, and use the player as a shield between TSL and EG? Judging from coach Lee's interview, PuMa had a very hard time actually bringing up his issue within TSL, suffering for having to do the job EG should have done. You seem to be completely unable to put yourself in TSL's position. Imagine one of your top players starting to act strange, and when you ask what is up, he tells that another team has approached him to join up. He tells you that he already has decided for himself, and that despite the (in this case real) contract, he no longer wishes to be a perart of EG. How would you respond? I bet the same way coach Lee did, and most likely in a way worse manner. Stop being a hypocrite, admit that you were wrong and apologize to the people you have seriously harmed with your horrible way of doing things. Negotiating things with TSL is a decent first step in redeeming yourself and your team. On July 26 2011 21:17 Klaus1986 wrote:
Puma wanted on EG. EG wanted Puma. Puma is now EG. Looks like both parties are happy. Case closed. Cool story, if there were actually just two parties. What exactly is your experience in running a pro-gaming organization? You seem to think you know an awful lot about what EG SHOULD do. Can you qualify your expertise on the matter? lol Well the reaction of the community gives him right or do you think EG is happy about how this all went? The only thing EG neglected to consider is the relative noobish quality of the sc2 pro-gaming fanbase. It hasnt been around long enough for this type of stuff to become par for the course re: player transfers. You all will get over it by the 10th time it happens. Well nobody was upset when FXO took over a whole team so your post is pretty much not consistent and therefore useless for this discussion. 2 completely different situations. Thanks for helping to prove my point. Didn't realise you're just a troll and you actually can't argue, my bad...
fOu didn't lose anything, they just gained money, new possibilites and practice-possibilties. FXO also didn't lose anything ( well except some money ). It's a deal where both parties and everyone included was happy.
Them PuMa deal instead... well, I don't have to type everything again, do I ?
|
Much respect for making this statement, and my feelings about the situation may have gotten better.
However, I will still never support any EG player. I am very disappointed by the way this was handled from a business point of view there was NO contact between the managers which is pathetic.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
