|
On July 26 2011 21:03 StarStruck wrote:
Alex, my advice to you is to hire a publicist.
I agree. I think EG could really do with a professional PR agent.
|
Puma wanted on EG. EG wanted Puma. Puma is now EG. Looks like both parties are happy. Case closed.
|
On July 26 2011 20:32 jenzebubble wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 20:19 GuardianEU wrote:On July 26 2011 19:53 Talin wrote:On July 26 2011 19:37 GuardianEU wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On one hand you say we need to look at kespa, on the other hand you say we kill E-sports with contracts and rules. kespa is known for blindly following rules (player was banned because he typed ppp when he asked for a pause when his monitor died) and every competor in any kespa tounament needs to have a license and a contract to even be able to participate.
There's no doubt kespa has done good things for Brood War as an E-sport, but saying we should just use kespa as an example of how it should be done is bad, when you know a lot of the TL readers don't like kespa and the way they do things.
You're saying that EG ruined sc2 players because they contracted them, how so exactly? Axslav and Strifecrow didn't get pulled out of any enviroment or were stopped from going to any big event because of EG, EG simply supplied the materials needed to be competitive. And lets not forget that it was EG who sent Idra to the GSL, to help him further his career. they even brought him back when Idra stated he would be better off competing in the NA scene right now. I don't see what's so horrible about EG.
The only thing EG has done is what Alex just stated in this OP. It's not disrespectful, nor is it greedy, to let a possible new member of EG talk to his coach first about the situation, by his OWN request. I actually said none of the things you say I said (which is ironic given that you're accusing me of putting words in someone's mouth). Maybe try reading again. PS. EG did not "send" Idra to GSL. He was already in Korea and practicing SC2 while he was still on CJ's roster. I recall him playing in OSL qualifiers either just before or after the first GSL Open. He's obviously not better off training and competing in the west, but he's certainly more useful to EG in the west, which is likely the main reason why he's back and stuck in the least competitive region. I did as you said, and read it again. sadly I still see the exact same things that I am responding to in your post. maybe you meant it otherwise, but it's there. And Idra was in korea during BW, yes. but after sc2 came out he joined the american scene, in NA. He then flew back in colaboration with EG to compete in the GSL. he then decided he wanted to fly back to the USA because there are more tournaments there and more opertunities to make money for Idra (and EG for exposure, no doubt) in the USA. seeing as this is his job, why wouldn;t you pass up on going to a country where people understand your english, and you can make mroe money. in contrast to playing in 1 tournament every month in a country that doesn't speak english very well. (it's not a class in school there it seems) I understand your opinion, but I have my own aswell  Idra made more per month from tournament winnings in Korea than he's made since moving back. Everyone who has had access to the Korean ladder/Korea has said they're the best place to train. Idra in Korea walks all over dde (nothing against dde, think he's fab). Idra living in North America lost to dde -- and it wasn't close. I believe I remember idra saying he moved back because it would be easier money. Now with the flood of Korean talent I wonder if he feels the same way. Opinions are like assholes. Yours smells bad.
Well I never said it was a good descision, I jsut said he wanted to do that and EG didn't make a fuss about it.
Just because my asshole doesn't smell the same way yours does, doesn't mean yours doesn't smell bad aswell
|
On July 26 2011 11:47 OldManSenex wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 11:35 TheSubtleArt wrote:
Lol remember the whole debate about Liquid playing in the EG masters cup? EG simply stated "Liquid was asked to participate and declined", and Tyler called them out on it, stating they misrepresented the situation and made no effort to present Liquid's side of the story. EG's response was that they shouldn't bear responsibility for presenting another side's argument, that was liquid's responsibility.
The situations were reversed now, and EG made a huge deal of it. Definitely speaks to the integrity of the organization. Except that that was a statement of a straightforward fact, that Liquid was invited and decided not to participate. Sure it would have been nice if EG had presented more information, but it can just as easily be argued that it would be overstepping their bounds to presume to speak for another team. This was a two-page long interview about how hurt and saddened the coach was by the fact that the evil western corporation had come along and lured his pure-hearted player to the dark side. When you're in such an obviously polarized discussion it's probably a good idea to see if the other side has anything to contribute. Still, I don't think it's a duty of a translator to look for both sides, it's just polite. With this press release I think we now have the opinions of both sides. EG has a new player, PuMa gets a paycheck, the coach gets his public and personal apology, and we hopefully get some amazing terran games. Win/win/kind of win/win.
The principle is still the same; according to EG it's a team's duty, and no1 else's, to report their own side of the story. We all know that one line was *technically* what happened, but it's clear to anyone that it's a very poor representation of what actually happened between liquid and the EG master's cup.
If EG wanted their side of the story represented, it was solely their duty to report it, if we're following the logic they set forth months ago. They should have made a statement immediately, instead of spending a week to retroactively fabricate an apologetic response
|
On July 26 2011 21:17 Klaus1986 wrote:
Puma wanted on EG. EG wanted Puma. Puma is now EG. Looks like both parties are happy. Case closed.
Your forgetting about the trolls man..WHAT ABOUT US!
BTW Alex lost his passion for Esports years ago.....
|
i will get rich and famous once i invent a device that slaps everyone who didnt even read through the op
|
On July 26 2011 21:17 Klaus1986 wrote:
Puma wanted on EG. EG wanted Puma. Puma is now EG. Looks like both parties are happy. Case closed.
There were more people involved. Generalizing everything is the worst thing you can do when having an actual discussion. You ignore all of the factors because you want to be right. There is a reason people are upset. I don't necessarily agree with them, but a random on a message board doesn't have much authority when it comes to "closing the case". Adding your input is certainly helpful -- generalizing, simplifying, and ignoring the rest of the situation is not. If what you posted was true, it wouldn't be an issue. Again, I don't agree with most people refuting this, but that is a childish way to discuss and issue. It is worse than the people making an effort and going overboard.
|
On July 26 2011 21:29 Nukm_ wrote:
i will get rich and famous once i invent a device that slaps everyone who didnt even read through the op
I would totally buy it! Anyway I just don't care about all this drama.... I am just happy that PuMa got an opportunity like this one.
|
Finally some closure. This gets me excited for EG in the near future. They might become the front runner foreigner team, just need more tournament wins.
|
Love all the sc2 'fans' treating puma like a litle kid who cant make his own decision because hes south korean and obligated to be 'loyal' to his team. Such latent racism... it makes me sick.
|
When you say '*first* step' 48 times, it doesn't magically become true. You talked to PuMa at NASL, that was the *first* step. And even though informally talking to another person isn't a criminal activity, polling his interest in maybe joining EG was wrong. And it was the FIRST step. The *second* (cwidt?) step was PuMa talking to coach Lee, which should have been the third step.
After talking to PuMa, which is or isn't fine depending on what actually was discussed, YOU (EG) should have directly contacted TSL, explaining that you talked with PuMa and that you would like the player to join EG's roster. How the fuck can you skip that step, and use the player as a shield between TSL and EG? Judging from coach Lee's interview, PuMa had a very hard time actually bringing up his issue within TSL, suffering for having to do the job EG should have done.
You seem to be completely unable to put yourself in TSL's position. Imagine one of your top players starting to act strange, and when you ask what is up, he tells that another team has approached him to join up. He tells you that he already has decided for himself, and that despite the (in this case real) contract, he no longer wishes to be a part of EG. How would you respond? I bet the same way coach Lee did, and most likely in a way worse manner.
Stop being a hypocrite, admit that you were wrong and apologize to the people you have seriously harmed with your horrible way of doing things. Negotiating things with TSL is a decent first step in redeeming yourself and your team.
On July 26 2011 21:17 Klaus1986 wrote:
Puma wanted on EG. EG wanted Puma. Puma is now EG. Looks like both parties are happy. Case closed.
Cool story, if there were actually just two parties.
|
To be totally honest I didnt read through all of the op because it seemed to me like he keeps repeating stuff over and over again which I allready heard in the WoC Episode. Personally I dont like people who keep saying they were right and then apologize. To me it just doesnt feel like a real Apology, especially after what Alex said at WoC.
I agree that EG needs a PR agent but for the most part its too late. What happened happened, you cant delete the VOD, and for my part, I wont forget this ever. I was EG Fan because of IdrA basically and I will always be IdrA Fan but I dont care about his Team at all.
|
Poll: Team EG0 was already a fan and still am (1969) 43% -1 fan (1818) 40% +1 fan (802) 17% 4589 total votes Your vote: Team EG (Vote): +1 fan
(Vote): -1 fan
(Vote): 0 was already a fan and still am
[/QUOTE]
What if you weren't a fan and am certainly not one now?!
|
On July 26 2011 21:47 Siphyo wrote:When you say '*first* step' 48 times, it doesn't magically become true. You talked to PuMa at NASL, that was the *first* step. And even though informally talking to another person isn't a criminal activity, polling his interest in maybe joining EG was wrong. And it was the FIRST step. The *second* (cwidt?) step was PuMa talking to coach Lee, which should have been the third step. After talking to PuMa, which is or isn't fine depending on what actually was discussed, YOU (EG) should have directly contacted TSL, explaining that you talked with PuMa and that you would like the player to join EG's roster. How the fuck can you skip that step, and use the player as a shield between TSL and EG? Judging from coach Lee's interview, PuMa had a very hard time actually bringing up his issue within TSL, suffering for having to do the job EG should have done. You seem to be completely unable to put yourself in TSL's position. Imagine one of your top players starting to act strange, and when you ask what is up, he tells that another team has approached him to join up. He tells you that he already has decided for himself, and that despite the (in this case real) contract, he no longer wishes to be a part of EG. How would you respond? I bet the same way coach Lee did, and most likely in a way worse manner. Stop being a hypocrite, admit that you were wrong and apologize to the people you have seriously harmed with your horrible way of doing things. Negotiating things with TSL is a decent first step in redeeming yourself and your team. Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 21:17 Klaus1986 wrote:
Puma wanted on EG. EG wanted Puma. Puma is now EG. Looks like both parties are happy. Case closed. Cool story, if there were actually just two parties.
What exactly is your experience in running a pro-gaming organization? You seem to think you know an awful lot about what EG SHOULD do. Can you qualify your expertise on the matter? lol
|
On July 26 2011 21:50 stratmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 21:47 Siphyo wrote:When you say '*first* step' 48 times, it doesn't magically become true. You talked to PuMa at NASL, that was the *first* step. And even though informally talking to another person isn't a criminal activity, polling his interest in maybe joining EG was wrong. And it was the FIRST step. The *second* (cwidt?) step was PuMa talking to coach Lee, which should have been the third step. After talking to PuMa, which is or isn't fine depending on what actually was discussed, YOU (EG) should have directly contacted TSL, explaining that you talked with PuMa and that you would like the player to join EG's roster. How the fuck can you skip that step, and use the player as a shield between TSL and EG? Judging from coach Lee's interview, PuMa had a very hard time actually bringing up his issue within TSL, suffering for having to do the job EG should have done. You seem to be completely unable to put yourself in TSL's position. Imagine one of your top players starting to act strange, and when you ask what is up, he tells that another team has approached him to join up. He tells you that he already has decided for himself, and that despite the (in this case real) contract, he no longer wishes to be a part of EG. How would you respond? I bet the same way coach Lee did, and most likely in a way worse manner. Stop being a hypocrite, admit that you were wrong and apologize to the people you have seriously harmed with your horrible way of doing things. Negotiating things with TSL is a decent first step in redeeming yourself and your team. On July 26 2011 21:17 Klaus1986 wrote:
Puma wanted on EG. EG wanted Puma. Puma is now EG. Looks like both parties are happy. Case closed. Cool story, if there were actually just two parties. What exactly is your experience in running a pro-gaming organization? You seem to think you know an awful lot about what EG SHOULD do. Can you qualify your expertise on the matter? lol
Well the reaction of the community gives him right or do you think EG is happy about how this all went?
|
On July 26 2011 21:50 stratmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 21:47 Siphyo wrote:When you say '*first* step' 48 times, it doesn't magically become true. You talked to PuMa at NASL, that was the *first* step. And even though informally talking to another person isn't a criminal activity, polling his interest in maybe joining EG was wrong. And it was the FIRST step. The *second* (cwidt?) step was PuMa talking to coach Lee, which should have been the third step. After talking to PuMa, which is or isn't fine depending on what actually was discussed, YOU (EG) should have directly contacted TSL, explaining that you talked with PuMa and that you would like the player to join EG's roster. How the fuck can you skip that step, and use the player as a shield between TSL and EG? Judging from coach Lee's interview, PuMa had a very hard time actually bringing up his issue within TSL, suffering for having to do the job EG should have done. You seem to be completely unable to put yourself in TSL's position. Imagine one of your top players starting to act strange, and when you ask what is up, he tells that another team has approached him to join up. He tells you that he already has decided for himself, and that despite the (in this case real) contract, he no longer wishes to be a part of EG. How would you respond? I bet the same way coach Lee did, and most likely in a way worse manner. Stop being a hypocrite, admit that you were wrong and apologize to the people you have seriously harmed with your horrible way of doing things. Negotiating things with TSL is a decent first step in redeeming yourself and your team. On July 26 2011 21:17 Klaus1986 wrote:
Puma wanted on EG. EG wanted Puma. Puma is now EG. Looks like both parties are happy. Case closed. Cool story, if there were actually just two parties. What exactly is your experience in running a pro-gaming organization? You seem to think you know an awful lot about what EG SHOULD do. Can you qualify your expertise on the matter? lol
Maybe he doesn't have experience in running a pro-gaming organisation, but I would guess that he has ample experience acting like a moral human being. Nobody's arguing that what EG did was illegal. The case is actually very simple. We have 3 parties: EG, PuMa and TSL. What EG did presumably benefitted EG and PuMa. What EG could have done was to include TSL in the transfer discussion and therefore benefit all three parties.
Maybe you are fine with what EG did. Some other SC2 and e-sports fans are disgusted at the way EG acted, especially since it impacts on the view of international or American-based SC2 teams.
Edit: Just like many of us on TL cheer on the non-Korean players on the GSL as they are our representatives in the Korean scene and we want them to give the best representation of us and our scene as they can, some of us e-sports fans would like our major SC2 teams to act with grace and dignity.
|
On July 26 2011 21:53 MrKn4rz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 21:50 stratmatt wrote:On July 26 2011 21:47 Siphyo wrote:When you say '*first* step' 48 times, it doesn't magically become true. You talked to PuMa at NASL, that was the *first* step. And even though informally talking to another person isn't a criminal activity, polling his interest in maybe joining EG was wrong. And it was the FIRST step. The *second* (cwidt?) step was PuMa talking to coach Lee, which should have been the third step. After talking to PuMa, which is or isn't fine depending on what actually was discussed, YOU (EG) should have directly contacted TSL, explaining that you talked with PuMa and that you would like the player to join EG's roster. How the fuck can you skip that step, and use the player as a shield between TSL and EG? Judging from coach Lee's interview, PuMa had a very hard time actually bringing up his issue within TSL, suffering for having to do the job EG should have done. You seem to be completely unable to put yourself in TSL's position. Imagine one of your top players starting to act strange, and when you ask what is up, he tells that another team has approached him to join up. He tells you that he already has decided for himself, and that despite the (in this case real) contract, he no longer wishes to be a part of EG. How would you respond? I bet the same way coach Lee did, and most likely in a way worse manner. Stop being a hypocrite, admit that you were wrong and apologize to the people you have seriously harmed with your horrible way of doing things. Negotiating things with TSL is a decent first step in redeeming yourself and your team. On July 26 2011 21:17 Klaus1986 wrote:
Puma wanted on EG. EG wanted Puma. Puma is now EG. Looks like both parties are happy. Case closed. Cool story, if there were actually just two parties. What exactly is your experience in running a pro-gaming organization? You seem to think you know an awful lot about what EG SHOULD do. Can you qualify your expertise on the matter? lol Well the reaction of the community gives him right or do you think EG is happy about how this all went?
The only thing EG neglected to consider is the relative noobish quality of the sc2 pro-gaming fanbase. It hasnt been around long enough for this type of stuff to become par for the course re: player transfers. You all will get over it by the 10th time it happens.
|
On July 26 2011 21:53 MrKn4rz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 21:50 stratmatt wrote:On July 26 2011 21:47 Siphyo wrote:When you say '*first* step' 48 times, it doesn't magically become true. You talked to PuMa at NASL, that was the *first* step. And even though informally talking to another person isn't a criminal activity, polling his interest in maybe joining EG was wrong. And it was the FIRST step. The *second* (cwidt?) step was PuMa talking to coach Lee, which should have been the third step. After talking to PuMa, which is or isn't fine depending on what actually was discussed, YOU (EG) should have directly contacted TSL, explaining that you talked with PuMa and that you would like the player to join EG's roster. How the fuck can you skip that step, and use the player as a shield between TSL and EG? Judging from coach Lee's interview, PuMa had a very hard time actually bringing up his issue within TSL, suffering for having to do the job EG should have done. You seem to be completely unable to put yourself in TSL's position. Imagine one of your top players starting to act strange, and when you ask what is up, he tells that another team has approached him to join up. He tells you that he already has decided for himself, and that despite the (in this case real) contract, he no longer wishes to be a part of EG. How would you respond? I bet the same way coach Lee did, and most likely in a way worse manner. Stop being a hypocrite, admit that you were wrong and apologize to the people you have seriously harmed with your horrible way of doing things. Negotiating things with TSL is a decent first step in redeeming yourself and your team. On July 26 2011 21:17 Klaus1986 wrote:
Puma wanted on EG. EG wanted Puma. Puma is now EG. Looks like both parties are happy. Case closed. Cool story, if there were actually just two parties. What exactly is your experience in running a pro-gaming organization? You seem to think you know an awful lot about what EG SHOULD do. Can you qualify your expertise on the matter? lol Well the reaction of the community gives him right or do you think EG is happy about how this all went?
If you made business decisions based on what the "community" thinks, you'd be out of business real quick.
|
On July 26 2011 21:56 tyCe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 21:50 stratmatt wrote:On July 26 2011 21:47 Siphyo wrote:When you say '*first* step' 48 times, it doesn't magically become true. You talked to PuMa at NASL, that was the *first* step. And even though informally talking to another person isn't a criminal activity, polling his interest in maybe joining EG was wrong. And it was the FIRST step. The *second* (cwidt?) step was PuMa talking to coach Lee, which should have been the third step. After talking to PuMa, which is or isn't fine depending on what actually was discussed, YOU (EG) should have directly contacted TSL, explaining that you talked with PuMa and that you would like the player to join EG's roster. How the fuck can you skip that step, and use the player as a shield between TSL and EG? Judging from coach Lee's interview, PuMa had a very hard time actually bringing up his issue within TSL, suffering for having to do the job EG should have done. You seem to be completely unable to put yourself in TSL's position. Imagine one of your top players starting to act strange, and when you ask what is up, he tells that another team has approached him to join up. He tells you that he already has decided for himself, and that despite the (in this case real) contract, he no longer wishes to be a part of EG. How would you respond? I bet the same way coach Lee did, and most likely in a way worse manner. Stop being a hypocrite, admit that you were wrong and apologize to the people you have seriously harmed with your horrible way of doing things. Negotiating things with TSL is a decent first step in redeeming yourself and your team. On July 26 2011 21:17 Klaus1986 wrote:
Puma wanted on EG. EG wanted Puma. Puma is now EG. Looks like both parties are happy. Case closed. Cool story, if there were actually just two parties. What exactly is your experience in running a pro-gaming organization? You seem to think you know an awful lot about what EG SHOULD do. Can you qualify your expertise on the matter? lol Maybe he doesn't have experience in running a pro-gaming organisation, but I would guess that he has ample experience acting like a moral human being. Nobody's arguing that what EG did was illegal. The case is actually very simple. We have 3 parties: EG, PuMa and TSL. What EG did presumably benefitted EG and PuMa. What EG could have done was to include TSL in the transfer discussion and therefore benefit all three parties. Maybe you are fine with what EG did. Some other SC2 and e-sports fans are disgusted at the way EG acted, especially since it impacts on the view of international or American-based SC2 teams. Edit: Just like many of us on TL cheer on the non-Korean players on the GSL as they are our representatives in the Korean scene and we want them to give the best representation of us and our scene as they can, some of us e-sports fans would like our major SC2 teams to act with grace and dignity.
Ok, so now your entire argument is based on 'morals' which are subjective at best. OK.....time to get over it.
|
On July 26 2011 21:57 stratmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 21:53 MrKn4rz wrote:On July 26 2011 21:50 stratmatt wrote:On July 26 2011 21:47 Siphyo wrote:When you say '*first* step' 48 times, it doesn't magically become true. You talked to PuMa at NASL, that was the *first* step. And even though informally talking to another person isn't a criminal activity, polling his interest in maybe joining EG was wrong. And it was the FIRST step. The *second* (cwidt?) step was PuMa talking to coach Lee, which should have been the third step. After talking to PuMa, which is or isn't fine depending on what actually was discussed, YOU (EG) should have directly contacted TSL, explaining that you talked with PuMa and that you would like the player to join EG's roster. How the fuck can you skip that step, and use the player as a shield between TSL and EG? Judging from coach Lee's interview, PuMa had a very hard time actually bringing up his issue within TSL, suffering for having to do the job EG should have done. You seem to be completely unable to put yourself in TSL's position. Imagine one of your top players starting to act strange, and when you ask what is up, he tells that another team has approached him to join up. He tells you that he already has decided for himself, and that despite the (in this case real) contract, he no longer wishes to be a part of EG. How would you respond? I bet the same way coach Lee did, and most likely in a way worse manner. Stop being a hypocrite, admit that you were wrong and apologize to the people you have seriously harmed with your horrible way of doing things. Negotiating things with TSL is a decent first step in redeeming yourself and your team. On July 26 2011 21:17 Klaus1986 wrote:
Puma wanted on EG. EG wanted Puma. Puma is now EG. Looks like both parties are happy. Case closed. Cool story, if there were actually just two parties. What exactly is your experience in running a pro-gaming organization? You seem to think you know an awful lot about what EG SHOULD do. Can you qualify your expertise on the matter? lol Well the reaction of the community gives him right or do you think EG is happy about how this all went? The only thing EG neglected to consider is the relative noobish quality of the sc2 pro-gaming fanbase. It hasnt been around long enough for this type of stuff to become par for the course re: player transfers. You all will get over it by the 10th time it happens.
Or maybe well see the pro-gaming organizations get better at it as they (especially EG) seem to have enormous trouble with handling PR and stuff like this.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
