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On July 22 2011 06:39 MrDudeMan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 06:38 Koshi wrote:
With EGs history and Korean honor I am more inclined to believe him.
But that is probably just me... I guess the phrase "Innocent until proven guilty" means nothing to you then.
Dude, there is nothing to be proven here. If I go outside my home and punch somebody in the face, and nobody sees it. Then I can't be proven guilty, however, people are allowed to believe the victim.
And once again, EG did nothing wrong legally. But it is a dickmove. Korea will now bind all their players. Problem solved. Move along.
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What do you think a contract is dude????????????
The owner of TSL stated, THERE ARE NO CONTRACTS, he didnt say there are contracts by mouth no contract by any means...He said THERE ARE NO CONTRACTS.....
No he flat out says there was no contract.
Please, read before saying this... In law, a contract does not even need to be said explicitely to exist....
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i think that this is a great move for EG, they don't really have anyone that can bring them a tournament victory besides idra so this was sort of necessary for them.
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On July 22 2011 06:39 Morrisson wrote:Show nested quote +No, they could not. Assuming your idea of a verbal contract based on trust is correct. The contract would be "You represent us at tournaments, we feed/shelter/train you". If this were the case puma said "I'm no longer playing for you and as such I am moving out". Thus end of contract. It would be different if Puma were to demand being allowed to stay in the team house. My idea is valid, but I have studied at least some law courses, which is not the case of everybody here. A contract is an agreement between 2 parties. THAT'S ALL. That's a contract. Puma accepted to play under the TSL tag while TSL provided lodging/training. I just assume that the TSL manager trusted Puma and that he followed what was THE USUAL TERMS IN THEIR INDUSTRY, even if not written ( i.e maybe a one year long contract, if you want to quit, talk to us , etc...). Exemple: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/contracts-101-make-legally-valid-30247.htmlShow nested quote +Does a contract have to be in writing? In a few situations, contracts must be in writing to be valid Meaning that in most cases, they are are not written. Guess what, when you buy groceries, you never sign a contract, yet there is one between the seller and the buyer. Law 101.... Show nested quote +Morrisson did you fail to read the update????
The owner of TSL already said there was NO contract, I repeat NO contract for his time there at TSL.
He also stated that its all based on trust and faith. There was no WRITTEN contract, god. That doesnt mean there was no contract.....
There's no rule of consideration in Korean contract law, meaning that the value of implied gains on the part of both sides of a potential contract does NOT play a role in determining that contract's legitimacy. In fact, the chief consideration in Korean contract law, afaik, is the willingness on both sides to uphold that contract, hence the emphasis on "honor" and such. So gtfo with your pseudo-informed contract babbling.
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Nothing wrong with this since it's a business decision and no contract was violated, but EG should also take into account that businesses depend strongly on perception and good faith when doing business with others, not just contracts.
What if with this move they are 'blacklisted' in Korea from doing business by whatever Kespa-like ruling body rises for SC2 because of this incident? I really think the smart thing would have been to check with TSL, at least as a courtesy, so that no bridges are burned for the future.
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On July 22 2011 06:27 Za7oX wrote:
Imagine of some team just stole idra from EG.
I'm sure scoots would be pretty pissed.
It wasn't stealing because he was never really with a team formally. Idra being "stolen" would have to take scoots consent.
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On July 22 2011 06:43 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 06:39 MrDudeMan wrote:On July 22 2011 06:38 Koshi wrote:
With EGs history and Korean honor I am more inclined to believe him.
But that is probably just me... I guess the phrase "Innocent until proven guilty" means nothing to you then. Dude, there is nothing to be proven here. If I go outside my home and punch somebody in the face, and nobody sees it. Then I can't be proven guilty, however, people are allowed to believe the victim. And once again, EG did nothing wrong legally. But it is a dickmove. Korea will now bind all their players. Problem solved. Move along.
why is everybody saying it is a dick move??? A organisation contacting a freelancer, nothing wrong with it
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On July 22 2011 06:44 Morrisson wrote:Show nested quote +What do you think a contract is dude????????????
The owner of TSL stated, THERE ARE NO CONTRACTS, he didnt say there are contracts by mouth no contract by any means...He said THERE ARE NO CONTRACTS..... Please, read before saying this... In law, a contract does not even need to be said explicitely to exist....
....You're pulling shit out of your ass at this point, yes a contract does need to be explicitly stated that's pretty obvious, you can't just claim to be in a contract with someone because you feel like it.
Also the coach flatout said that there were no contracts that they instead prefered to not sign their players.
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On July 22 2011 06:43 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 06:39 MrDudeMan wrote:On July 22 2011 06:38 Koshi wrote:
With EGs history and Korean honor I am more inclined to believe him.
But that is probably just me... I guess the phrase "Innocent until proven guilty" means nothing to you then. Dude, there is nothing to be proven here. If I go outside my home and punch somebody in the face, and nobody sees it. Then I can't be proven guilty, however, people are allowed to believe the victim. And once again, EG did nothing wrong legally. But it is a dickmove. Korea will now bind all their players. Problem solved. Move along.
Right but when you believe somebody just on their word alone, you are passing judgement without hearing both sides of the story. Thus you are assuming EG is guilty of lying, when in fact there is no evidence to support it. The people that believe the victim in the scenario are wrong, as there is no evidence pointing to you.
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i wonder how many other team managers are like damn why didnt we make an offer to all these contract-less koreans....
EG, just ahead of the game.
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On July 22 2011 06:45 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 06:39 Morrisson wrote:No, they could not. Assuming your idea of a verbal contract based on trust is correct. The contract would be "You represent us at tournaments, we feed/shelter/train you". If this were the case puma said "I'm no longer playing for you and as such I am moving out". Thus end of contract. It would be different if Puma were to demand being allowed to stay in the team house. My idea is valid, but I have studied at least some law courses, which is not the case of everybody here. A contract is an agreement between 2 parties. THAT'S ALL. That's a contract. Puma accepted to play under the TSL tag while TSL provided lodging/training. I just assume that the TSL manager trusted Puma and that he followed what was THE USUAL TERMS IN THEIR INDUSTRY, even if not written ( i.e maybe a one year long contract, if you want to quit, talk to us , etc...). Exemple: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/contracts-101-make-legally-valid-30247.htmlDoes a contract have to be in writing? In a few situations, contracts must be in writing to be valid Meaning that in most cases, they are are not written. Guess what, when you buy groceries, you never sign a contract, yet there is one between the seller and the buyer. Law 101.... Morrisson did you fail to read the update????
The owner of TSL already said there was NO contract, I repeat NO contract for his time there at TSL.
He also stated that its all based on trust and faith. There was no WRITTEN contract, god. That doesnt mean there was no contract..... There's no rule of consideration in Korean contract law, meaning that the value of implied gains on the part of both sides of a potential contract does NOT play a role in determining that contract's legitimacy. In fact, the chief consideration in Korean contract law, afaik, is the willingness on both sides to uphold that contract, hence the emphasis on "honor" and such. So gtfo with your pseudo-informed contract babbling.
First post I read that has some meat to it. Except for the GTFO, but I forgive you 
If THAT is the case ( I'm no korean law expert), then it's another matter. But I was talking at a more broad level.
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Poor TSL, can't catch a break. I dont know the whole situation, but since he spoiled Nalra's Oldboy Puma must be completely at fault here.
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Wow, I guess EG needed to do everything they could to finally get a decent player other than Idra.
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It really doesn't matter whether there was a contract or not. Asian culture is all about respect. In bypassing TSL and talking straight to Puma, EG basically slapped them in the face. That is not how you do business in Asia
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On July 22 2011 06:46 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 06:44 Morrisson wrote:What do you think a contract is dude????????????
The owner of TSL stated, THERE ARE NO CONTRACTS, he didnt say there are contracts by mouth no contract by any means...He said THERE ARE NO CONTRACTS..... No he flat out says there was no contract. Please, read before saying this... In law, a contract does not even need to be said explicitely to exist.... ....You're pulling shit out of your ass at this point, yes a contract does need to be explicitly stated that's pretty obvious, you can't just claim to be in a contract with someone because you feel like it. Also the coach flatout said that there were no contracts that they instead prefered to not sign their players.
Just for you
Most contracts only need to contain two elements to be legally valid:
All parties must be in agreement (after an offer has been made by one party and accepted by the other).Something of value must be exchanged -- such as cash, services, or goods (or a promise to exchange such an item) -- for something else of value.
If I come to you and say
" Hey, wanna buy this, 20 buck"
"Sure"
We just had a contract. Never written, never stated, but here. That is just my point.
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What do you think a contract is dude????????????
The owner of TSL stated, THERE ARE NO CONTRACTS, he didnt say there are contracts by mouth no contract by any means...He said THERE ARE NO CONTRACTS.....
No he flat out says there was no contract.
Please, read before saying this... In law, a contract does not even need to be said explicitely to exist....
You obv. don't read anything cause if you read the topic thr TSL coach already explains that they don't use verbal contracts, verbal agreements, promise contracts or any other kind of contracts at all.
THEY USE TRUST AND FAITH
How many other people are going to make you look stupid??
BTW Korea doesn't use the same Law base as us so you can't really say about how there contracts work in there court sytem.
Nonethe less someone stated up top that even IF there was a verbal contract the way there courts work is if both sides agreed that there was a verbal contract in place due to the honor code.
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On July 22 2011 06:49 thorwashere wrote:
It really doesn't matter whether there was a contract or not. Asian culture is all about respect. In bypassing TSL and talking straight to Puma, EG basically slapped them in the face. That is not how you do business in Asia
You don't say you have control over a player when he isn't even playing for you under contract. You want control over him? Sign him.
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Contract or not ..it is a dick move plain and simple. TSL fed him, gave him an environment to train with the best, sent him to tournaments only to see him leave with practically no notice at all. THAT is a dick move contract or not. If people can`t see that I don`t even know what to say. There are better ways of handling business without burning bridges.
And please don`t quote me and bring up the whole contract thing because you would be missing the point.
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United States23455 Posts
On July 22 2011 06:47 zev318 wrote:
i wonder how many other team managers are like damn why didnt we make an offer to all these contract-less koreans....
EG, just ahead of the game.
Most teams wouldn't do something this unethical. It also pretty much blacklists EG in Korea and makes their whole team look bad to Korean players. It's been said that EG has tried to poach other Koreans, but Puma is the only one to turn their back on his team. From tweets from players like Clide and FruitDealer, they don't respect Puma's decision.
If I'm MVP, I send a bodyguard with DongRaeGu and punch anyone in the face who tries to ask if they want to join their team.
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On July 22 2011 06:36 JayPower wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 06:33 Koshi wrote:
Just so lame that again something controversial happens and that once again EG is the center of it and is lying about it. Or how they call it "not telling the whole story".
Incontrol makes a problem of TB changing scenes to make money, now his manager acquires a top player on the most unethical way possible.
---> Incontrol telling on every podcast how EG is the best business in the world and that they did nothing wrong.
Pathetic. Everything that needs to be said has been said. PuMa WASN'T on a contract. It doesnt who who aproached who, Puma got offered a contract/deal w/e you wanna call it. PuMa told his coach about it and left TSL. There's nothing else to say. Either EG has a shit ton of money and really wants Puma or TSL heavily under-paid Puma and there was no reason for him to stay in a team that doesnt respect his talent.
Rofl you serious bro?
Did you even read any of the OP?
It clearly states that PuMa was asked directly from EG to join their ranks, WITHOUT asking managers and what not. This is clearly wrong, no matter how you look at it EG stole a player from TSL. It'd be an entirely different story if EG asked TSL management.
And TSL doesn't respect PuMa's talent? WTF are you on? You do realize they sent PuMa out in the GSTL to get 3 kills right? I dunno' how you can send a player out and not respect their talent. There's a reason you send them out, and it's that you respect their talent and have confidence in him. Your argument is completely wrong. It's ill-informed and pretty biased, we'll let people see who you're biased for.
And if they didn't respect PuMa, and his talent, they would of kept him on TSL regardless of his wishes.
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EPT
