EPTPuma leaves TSL for EG - Page 239
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DBOWNIZZ
United States66 Posts
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Morrisson
289 Posts
On July 22 2011 06:50 DBOWNIZZ wrote: You obv. don't read anything cause if you read the topic thr TSL coach already explains that they don't use verbal contracts, verbal agreements, promise contracts or any other kind of contracts at all. THEY USE TRUST AND FAITH. I read they did not use written contract. but verbal agreement? Please show me where the coach say this. Is that is the case, then I apologize  | ||
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las91
United States5080 Posts
The fact that TSL was not using contracts to keep their players with thee team is a shortsighted and somewhat unintelligent move, as contracts keep people from fucking each other over on both ends. Just my two cents. | ||
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MrDudeMan
Canada973 Posts
On July 22 2011 06:49 Morrisson wrote: Just for you If I come to you and say " Hey, wanna buy this, 20 buck" "Sure" We just had a contract. Never written, never stated, but here. That is just my point. While a written contract is not specifically required, it is always recommended because getting into fights based on your word against someone elses word often does not end well. This is why when you purchase something from a store, you will most likely obtain a receipt and they will also obtain a receipt. This receipt is the proof of purchase, thus validating this non written contract that exists. | ||
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BackSideAttack
1103 Posts
On July 22 2011 06:46 Hardigan wrote: why is everybody saying it is a dick move??? A organisation contacting a freelancer, nothing wrong with it Because they failed to go through the proper channels first. When you do international business it's common to get an extensive briefing on the cultural idiosyncrasies of a particular region before doing business with them. This is the equivalent of going to Japan and refusing a gift when presented with one. As any business school would teach you, what EG did in contacting the player first instead of negotiating/informing the team is extremely rude and disrespectful to the Korean way. Only negative things can follow through from this pickup. Once sc2 gets some sort of Kepsa like governing body, EG will most likely become blacklisted. | ||
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NightAngel
United States144 Posts
On July 22 2011 06:11 StyLeD wrote: I think TSL did respect Puma's decision, but afaik Puma came to the manager one day, said he'd be leaving, and left. There was nothing TSL could do but "release" him. And there is NOTHING wrong with that. | ||
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chasfrank
Gambia59 Posts
On July 22 2011 06:46 Hardigan wrote: why is everybody saying it is a dick move??? A organisation contacting a freelancer, nothing wrong with it That is quite a stretch. | ||
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Morrisson
289 Posts
On July 22 2011 06:53 MrDudeMan wrote: While a written contract is not specifically required, it is always recommended because getting into fights based on your word against someone elses word often does not end well. This is why when you purchase something from a store, you will most likely obtain a receipt and they will also obtain a receipt. This receipt is the proof of purchase, thus validating this non written contract that exists. I agree. I think TSL got very careless. | ||
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Grimsong
United States252 Posts
There is a presumption for commercial agreements that parties intend to be legally bound (unless the parties expressly state that they do not want to be bound, like in heads of agreement). On the other hand, many kinds of domestic and social agreements are unenforceable on the basis of public policy, for instance between children and parents. One early example is found in Balfour v. Balfour.[24] Using contract-like terms, Mr. Balfour had agreed to give his wife £30 a month as maintenance while he was living in Ceylon (Sri Lanka). Once he left, they separated and Mr. Balfour stopped payments. Mrs. Balfour brought an action to enforce the payments. At the Court of Appeal, the Court held that there was no enforceable agreement as there was not enough evidence to suggest that they were intending to be legally bound by the promise. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract#Intention_to_be_legally_bound | ||
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xBillehx
United States1289 Posts
With that said I'm holding further judgement until after WoC tonight. | ||
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Morrisson
289 Posts
On July 22 2011 06:54 Grimsong wrote: In regards to non written contracts, read this - From WIKIPEDIA There is a presumption for commercial agreements that parties intend to be legally bound (unless the parties expressly state that they do not want to be bound, like in heads of agreement). On the other hand, many kinds of domestic and social agreements are unenforceable on the basis of public policy, for instance between children and parents. One early example is found in Balfour v. Balfour.[24] Using contract-like terms, Mr. Balfour had agreed to give his wife £30 a month as maintenance while he was living in Ceylon (Sri Lanka). Once he left, they separated and Mr. Balfour stopped payments. Mrs. Balfour brought an action to enforce the payments. At the Court of Appeal, the Court held that there was no enforceable agreement as there was not enough evidence to suggest that they were intending to be legally bound by the promise. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract#Intention_to_be_legally_bound Yes it's exactly what I am saying... and it's a matter of evidence. I just believe there is enought evidence. ( tag name, living in the dorms, travel expense probably, etc...) | ||
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madrod
Australia66 Posts
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Serpico
4285 Posts
On July 22 2011 06:55 xBillehx wrote: People keep saying Puma wasn't contracted but he was definitely still on the team. Everyone knew he was part of TSL, EG knew he was part of TSL when they poached him. Whether it's right or wrong I don't understand people trying to argue that Puma was an actual free agent, he wasn't. There was an agreement with TSL/Puma and regardless of whether or not a legal contract existed, he was still part of TSL when EG approached him, not a free agent representing TSL out of good will. I won't argue legality of it, because it was definitely legal since no contract existed, but will people please stop addressing the situation as EG approaching a free agent, they obviously approached someone they knew was affiliated with a team. With that said I'm holding further judgement until after WoC tonight. Yes he was, he was agreeing to represent TSL only in principle and if they wanted him that badly they would put money down to secure his services as a player. It makes it look like you only want him there to be a temp player to help you out while he trains and you both mutually benefit until he moves on. | ||
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
On July 22 2011 06:51 Fionn wrote: Most teams wouldn't do something this unethical. It also pretty much blacklists EG in Korea and makes their whole team look bad to Korean players. It's been said that EG has tried to poach other Koreans, but Puma is the only one to turn their back on his team. From tweets from players like Clide and FruitDealer, they don't respect Puma's decision. If I'm MVP, I send a bodyguard with DongRaeGu and punch anyone in the face who tries to ask if they want to join their team. what's unethical about asking if a player would like to join ur team when they dont even have a contract w their team? if im MVP, i just fucking sign DRG to a contract, problem solved. save myself the money to hire a bodyguard and flying him over to MLG with DRG. | ||
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
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dacthehork
United States2000 Posts
Would you still support that player's actions? No it's despicable. The same thing is when a team trains you for 10 months and treats you pretty well to just say.. welp I'm leaving for a better deal now that I won NASL. Both are pretty "wrong" in terms of most ethics, in terms of paying back TSL (getting a transfer fee paid at least) or paying back a player that payed 1200 of his own money to go. Neither where illegal. If you think its cool beans and "good people" that do everything possible regardless of who it fucks over to get ahead fine. But still most people will view EG negatively for this type of shit (they even went after contracted players). Either way its pretty obvious koreans will be under tight contracts before they roll into MLG Must really suck for coaches/players that helped puma to get better and fed/housed him for 10 months. I'm not saying its bad to leave for EG, but there are better ways of going about it than screwing people over. | ||
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Grimsong
United States252 Posts
On July 22 2011 06:56 Morrisson wrote: Yes it's exactly what I am saying... and it's a matter of evidence. I just believe there is enought evidence. ( tag name, living in the dorms, travel expense probably, etc...) There's evidence they were working together. Just like there's evidence I'm helping my friend by buying him lunch. He isn't contactually, legally, bound to buy me lunch in return. Doesn't say it had to be exclusive or for any extent of time. | ||
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Hoodlum
United States350 Posts
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Tryxtira
Sweden572 Posts
On the other hand, what an amazing sign by EG. I wonder where Puma will live and practice and who will live there with him! :D | ||
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VillageBC
322 Posts
My take on this is it probably went like this. EG went to NASL to talk to players, make it known they were recruiting and see who might be interested in joining them or had contracts coming up. There is no governing body restricting player contact so I don't see a big deal with this move. Puma upon hearing (or being approached directly) went to EG to show his interest and see what kind of deal they might offer him. Likely to me, that Puma gave TSL the chance to match or beat the offer and that TSL was unable/unwilling to do so. I would be dollars to cents that is probably a closer representation of the truth of what happened. Nothing extreme on the one side or other. | ||
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