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Amazing move by EG. Hope he teaches good old demu some 
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On July 21 2011 23:52 Bitters wrote:
I can't really understand this thread, maybe someone can help me out.
Puma is on TSL, goes and dominates NASL. Is approached by EG about joining a foreign team, he decides he wants to go this route. Puma tells TSL the news, they can:
A) Tell him no, you are under contract and cannot leave the team
B) Tell him yes, we will release you from your contractual obligations
C) Can't tell him anything, because they don't have him under contract
If "A", then this news doesn't occur. If "B", then TSL opted not to enforce their contract and have no reason to complain about Puma leaving, and EG could be seen in a negative light for trying to poach a contracted player. If "C", then TSL would be upset and complain about the situation because they did not have the intelligence or foresight to contract their "professional" players on a "professional" team. With these teams being involved with money, salaries, sponsors, there is no reason to think they do not need contracts.
With the response from TSL (complaining and finger pointing), it seems "C" is the likely scenario. I have no idea how someone can blame EG for doing what's right by them. If you have a star player not under contract, you do what you can to get him under contract. You don't need to talk to TSL, they are his team, not his "agent" (since he likely doesn't have an agent, Puma would represent himself then). When professional sports players are unrestricted free agents (not under contract) you don't need to deal with the team they were on, you deal with the agent.
And if Puma was under contract ("B"), then TSL should give its head a shake for not enforcing there own stipulations and then complaining about Puma joining a team after they green-lighted his release.
Edit:
And for those saying "but in Korea, you do this with manner, talk to the team, etc."...
Sorry, but an American team making an offer at NASL (on American soil in an American based tournament) to someone playing a Global e-sport, should not be expected to follow a single countries rules. If they do, then they are going out of their way to be exceptionally inclusive, but I don't see how this should be the standard.
Agreed. Good post.
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On July 21 2011 23:55 Proko wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 23:53 Dante08 wrote:On July 21 2011 23:42 stormchaser wrote:On July 21 2011 23:39 arbitrageur wrote:On July 21 2011 23:37 stormchaser wrote:On July 21 2011 23:35 Sandro wrote:On July 21 2011 23:33 stormchaser wrote:On July 21 2011 23:30 pHelix Equilibria wrote:
I'm not surprised. Its EG. Evil as hell, way to go behind the team's back. I don't understand why people can't just wish Puma the best of luck for his decision. So many people have to put a negative spin on change. He was probably paid shit if he accepted this deal with EG, c'mon guys, I'm sure he's happier than ever now. Nobody is shitting on Puma, just EG, and until we get their side of the story, they deserve it. No they don't. They did not break ANY RULES whatsoever, in the law, in ethics, none. They had talks with the player and Puma obviously has faith in EG, so he accepted. No one forced him and I'm sure he received many other deals as well. Stop pretending EG is some evil corporation, I don't understand the hate. Exactly.. Why should EG go and talk to TSL management. Puma can tell them he's leaving himself.. Lmao I'm open to hearing why EG should converse with TSL management.. but amongst the thousand or so posts condemning EG the only reason I've heard is that it's respectful and it saves their feelings from getting hurt. Agreed. Why should they. Do I see a wall of rules this team must follow? Nope. Exactly. If I were a team manager, I'd be stealing as many koreans and taking them over the west as possible. They are good at the game, why would any smart manager not do this? It's good for all involved. If TSL is mad about the decision, they shold've taken care of such an AAA player better. Yea man coaches and managers are transparent. Hey! Lets do this, everytime a Korean comes to a foreign event lets drag him to one side when he goes to the toilet and offer him a contract. A contract far better than his current one. "Hey MVP and DRG your teams are paying you $1k per month? We'll give you $5k". Then tell his management after he signs it! Nothing wrong at all ! You're silly. It's called bidding and contracts. It's not the like the players are being kidnapped when nobody is looking. How long ago were NASL finals? This deal took awhile to finalize.
Thats not my point obviously. Im just exaggerating. My point is that teams should go through management as a form of respect and ethic.
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On July 21 2011 23:54 arbitrageur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 23:51 MrCon wrote:On July 21 2011 23:45 Mycl wrote:On July 21 2011 23:45 Rinrun wrote:On July 21 2011 23:42 tooPrime wrote:On July 21 2011 23:40 Rinrun wrote:On July 21 2011 23:35 tooPrime wrote:
Okay, TL is now worse than Cleveland Cavalier fans. Shameful day. This is just one thread, it doesn't represent the entire site. What's wrong with people looking for loyalty... What's wrong with people leaving a crappy team that doesn't pay them what they deserve, and then bad mouths them in the media when they do? Now how can you be sure that he was paid inadequately? I'd like to see some sources. Also on the topic of "badmouthing" that happened after the fact, not before. Well obviously Puma believed he was being paid inadequately and that's all we need He just won 50k thanks to TSL, I don't know if he has a salary or not but this prize money is still here because TSL invested in him. It's not a salary but can be considered as a salary. Hope he'll at least pay TSL for plane ticket + money invested to send him to NASL... Now in a few months he'll have no chance to win anything because he'll lose too much in skill practicing in USA, so I hope his salary worth it. I'm conflicted about this. One one hand it's good for Puma (at least in the short run), and it's good for him to have more stability (I think). On the other hand, it seems to be a real dick move from EG (but I'll wait for more details to judge) Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 23:51 MrCon wrote:On July 21 2011 23:45 Mycl wrote:On July 21 2011 23:45 Rinrun wrote:On July 21 2011 23:42 tooPrime wrote:On July 21 2011 23:40 Rinrun wrote:On July 21 2011 23:35 tooPrime wrote:
Okay, TL is now worse than Cleveland Cavalier fans. Shameful day. This is just one thread, it doesn't represent the entire site. What's wrong with people looking for loyalty... What's wrong with people leaving a crappy team that doesn't pay them what they deserve, and then bad mouths them in the media when they do? Now how can you be sure that he was paid inadequately? I'd like to see some sources. Also on the topic of "badmouthing" that happened after the fact, not before. Well obviously Puma believed he was being paid inadequately and that's all we need He just won 50k thanks to TSL, I don't know if he has a salary or not but this prize money is still here because TSL invested in him. It's not a salary but can be considered as a salary. Hope he'll at least pay TSL for plane ticket + money invested to send him to NASL... Analogous to a sunk cost. Irrelevant to the separate decision of changing teams - the topic of conversation. Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 23:51 MrCon wrote:On July 21 2011 23:45 Mycl wrote:On July 21 2011 23:45 Rinrun wrote:On July 21 2011 23:42 tooPrime wrote:On July 21 2011 23:40 Rinrun wrote:On July 21 2011 23:35 tooPrime wrote:
Okay, TL is now worse than Cleveland Cavalier fans. Shameful day. This is just one thread, it doesn't represent the entire site. What's wrong with people looking for loyalty... What's wrong with people leaving a crappy team that doesn't pay them what they deserve, and then bad mouths them in the media when they do? Now how can you be sure that he was paid inadequately? I'd like to see some sources. Also on the topic of "badmouthing" that happened after the fact, not before. Well obviously Puma believed he was being paid inadequately and that's all we need Now in a few months he'll have no chance to win anything because he'll lose too much in skill practicing in USA, so I hope his salary worth it. Care to evidence: - That he'll be moving overseas, and that if he isn't the large amount of practice partners isn't enough (watch any krn progamer stream.. they have lists of pros they practice with not from their own team). - That he'll deteriorate to the point of not being able to crush foreigner tournaments and not be able to make huge sums of money if he does move overseas.
I don't know if he'll stay in korea or move to EG house, but even if he stays in korea he'll practice on his own, it's pretty obvious he'll lose in skill I think ? Unless team houses have no purpose.
edit : and if he stays in korea then this buy is silly, as he won't even raise the skill of the rest of EG, so they'd just bought a player that'll stay alone in his home in korea ?
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it's pretty simple. EG didn't break any rules because esports is young an doesn't have a governing body (mostly because blizzard would probably want them to pay royalties or something idiotic). that doesn't change the fact that what EG did was utterly unprofessional and underhanded. no, it doesn't deserve any sort of legal recourse, but it's hardly becoming of one of America's foremost business companies. cutthroat business practices are indicative of desperation and a lack of respect for other organizations.
i know people like to pretend that EG is pursuing the true spirit of capitalism, but if we're honest with ourselves we can pretty much say that the only reason this sort of behaviour is possible is because esports is an informally contractual market. furthermore, there isn't exactly much competition in america, hence EG's underhandedness doesn't really impel management/players to go elsewhere because there's nowhere else to go.
in essence, we are dealing with the unprofessionalism born out of american esports because most of our beloved esports companies were founded by inexperienced 20-somethings (e.g. alex garfield) who later had to hire managerial staff (e.g. sirscoots) to actually manage the company. unfortunately, sirscoots, while he has managed to inspire loyalty and admiration from the community in general, is evidently not afraid to use unethical loopholes in order to get his company ahead.
i look forward to the damage control wherein eg will note that tsl doesn't care and that puma really wanted to come and that they were trying to be as honest as possible and that they have huge respect for tsl and that they want this decision to grow esports. i seriously hope none of you fall for such posturing.
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Horrible move by Puma. What does he expect to get from EG who can't even perform well in tournies except IdrA.
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On July 21 2011 23:53 Dante08 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 23:42 stormchaser wrote:On July 21 2011 23:39 arbitrageur wrote:On July 21 2011 23:37 stormchaser wrote:On July 21 2011 23:35 Sandro wrote:On July 21 2011 23:33 stormchaser wrote:On July 21 2011 23:30 pHelix Equilibria wrote:
I'm not surprised. Its EG. Evil as hell, way to go behind the team's back. I don't understand why people can't just wish Puma the best of luck for his decision. So many people have to put a negative spin on change. He was probably paid shit if he accepted this deal with EG, c'mon guys, I'm sure he's happier than ever now. Nobody is shitting on Puma, just EG, and until we get their side of the story, they deserve it. No they don't. They did not break ANY RULES whatsoever, in the law, in ethics, none. They had talks with the player and Puma obviously has faith in EG, so he accepted. No one forced him and I'm sure he received many other deals as well. Stop pretending EG is some evil corporation, I don't understand the hate. Exactly.. Why should EG go and talk to TSL management. Puma can tell them he's leaving himself.. Lmao I'm open to hearing why EG should converse with TSL management.. but amongst the thousand or so posts condemning EG the only reason I've heard is that it's respectful and it saves their feelings from getting hurt. Agreed. Why should they. Do I see a wall of rules this team must follow? Nope. Exactly. If I were a team manager, I'd be stealing as many koreans and taking them over the west as possible. They are good at the game, why would any smart manager not do this? It's good for all involved. If TSL is mad about the decision, they shold've taken care of such an AAA player better. Yea man coaches and managers are transparent. Hey! Lets do this, everytime a Korean comes to a foreign event lets drag him to one side when he goes to the toilet and offer him a contract. A contract far better than his current one. "Hey MVP and DRG your teams are paying you $1k per month? We'll give you $5k". Then tell his management after he signs it! Nothing wrong at all !
If EG went up to a player and said we'll pay you X amount more than you are making from your current team but you have to sign a contract right this second without consulting your team first then I think almost everyone would consider that to be "dirty business." It doesn't give the other team a chance to counter offer and it is shady.
However no one knows if that is what EG did. It's just as likely they made the offer to Puma and told him to think about it and get back to them. During this time he could easily contact anyone he wants - including his team and manager.
Furthermore if he was under contract with another team then he would be required to contact them in order to have his contractual obligations nullified. By saying that they made an offer and that Puma signed a contract before telling his management you are implying that you know he wasn't under contract. If that's the case then that is poor management on TSL's part to not contract a player as good as Puma.
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On July 21 2011 23:58 kaisr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 23:52 Bitters wrote:
I can't really understand this thread, maybe someone can help me out.
Puma is on TSL, goes and dominates NASL. Is approached by EG about joining a foreign team, he decides he wants to go this route. Puma tells TSL the news, they can:
A) Tell him no, you are under contract and cannot leave the team
B) Tell him yes, we will release you from your contractual obligations
C) Can't tell him anything, because they don't have him under contract
If "A", then this news doesn't occur. If "B", then TSL opted not to enforce their contract and have no reason to complain about Puma leaving, and EG could be seen in a negative light for trying to poach a contracted player. If "C", then TSL would be upset and complain about the situation because they did not have the intelligence or foresight to contract their "professional" players on a "professional" team. With these teams being involved with money, salaries, sponsors, there is no reason to think they do not need contracts.
With the response from TSL (complaining and finger pointing), it seems "C" is the likely scenario. I have no idea how someone can blame EG for doing what's right by them. If you have a star player not under contract, you do what you can to get him under contract. You don't need to talk to TSL, they are his team, not his "agent" (since he likely doesn't have an agent, Puma would represent himself then). When professional sports players are unrestricted free agents (not under contract) you don't need to deal with the team they were on, you deal with the agent.
And if Puma was under contract ("B"), then TSL should give its head a shake for not enforcing there own stipulations and then complaining about Puma joining a team after they green-lighted his release.
Edit:
And for those saying "but in Korea, you do this with manner, talk to the team, etc."...
Sorry, but an American team making an offer at NASL (on American soil in an American based tournament) to someone playing a Global e-sport, should not be expected to follow a single countries rules. If they do, then they are going out of their way to be exceptionally inclusive, but I don't see how this should be the standard. Agreed. Good post.
Or D. He just said, I don't want to play or practice with TSL anymore. I'm just going to sit here and watch TV all day, and TSL didn't want to sue him over breaching his contract.
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On July 21 2011 23:59 Dante08 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 23:55 Proko wrote:On July 21 2011 23:53 Dante08 wrote:On July 21 2011 23:42 stormchaser wrote:On July 21 2011 23:39 arbitrageur wrote:On July 21 2011 23:37 stormchaser wrote:On July 21 2011 23:35 Sandro wrote:On July 21 2011 23:33 stormchaser wrote:On July 21 2011 23:30 pHelix Equilibria wrote:
I'm not surprised. Its EG. Evil as hell, way to go behind the team's back. I don't understand why people can't just wish Puma the best of luck for his decision. So many people have to put a negative spin on change. He was probably paid shit if he accepted this deal with EG, c'mon guys, I'm sure he's happier than ever now. Nobody is shitting on Puma, just EG, and until we get their side of the story, they deserve it. No they don't. They did not break ANY RULES whatsoever, in the law, in ethics, none. They had talks with the player and Puma obviously has faith in EG, so he accepted. No one forced him and I'm sure he received many other deals as well. Stop pretending EG is some evil corporation, I don't understand the hate. Exactly.. Why should EG go and talk to TSL management. Puma can tell them he's leaving himself.. Lmao I'm open to hearing why EG should converse with TSL management.. but amongst the thousand or so posts condemning EG the only reason I've heard is that it's respectful and it saves their feelings from getting hurt. Agreed. Why should they. Do I see a wall of rules this team must follow? Nope. Exactly. If I were a team manager, I'd be stealing as many koreans and taking them over the west as possible. They are good at the game, why would any smart manager not do this? It's good for all involved. If TSL is mad about the decision, they shold've taken care of such an AAA player better. Yea man coaches and managers are transparent. Hey! Lets do this, everytime a Korean comes to a foreign event lets drag him to one side when he goes to the toilet and offer him a contract. A contract far better than his current one. "Hey MVP and DRG your teams are paying you $1k per month? We'll give you $5k". Then tell his management after he signs it! Nothing wrong at all ! You're silly. It's called bidding and contracts. It's not the like the players are being kidnapped when nobody is looking. How long ago were NASL finals? This deal took awhile to finalize. Thats not my point obviously. Im just exaggerating. My point is that teams should go through management as a form of respect and ethic.
If PuMa was a free agent, as all signs seem to point at, there is no management. If he wasn't a free agent, then TSL management shouldn't be whining.
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On July 21 2011 23:59 neptunesak wrote:
Horrible move by Puma. What does he expect to get from EG who can't even perform well in tournies except IdrA.
Isn't it obvious? $$$$$$$
Seems like EG is gonna have to make a statement on this because its getting blown out and I'm sure theres more to the story
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On July 21 2011 23:59 Dante08 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 23:55 Proko wrote:On July 21 2011 23:53 Dante08 wrote:On July 21 2011 23:42 stormchaser wrote:On July 21 2011 23:39 arbitrageur wrote:On July 21 2011 23:37 stormchaser wrote:On July 21 2011 23:35 Sandro wrote:On July 21 2011 23:33 stormchaser wrote:On July 21 2011 23:30 pHelix Equilibria wrote:
I'm not surprised. Its EG. Evil as hell, way to go behind the team's back. I don't understand why people can't just wish Puma the best of luck for his decision. So many people have to put a negative spin on change. He was probably paid shit if he accepted this deal with EG, c'mon guys, I'm sure he's happier than ever now. Nobody is shitting on Puma, just EG, and until we get their side of the story, they deserve it. No they don't. They did not break ANY RULES whatsoever, in the law, in ethics, none. They had talks with the player and Puma obviously has faith in EG, so he accepted. No one forced him and I'm sure he received many other deals as well. Stop pretending EG is some evil corporation, I don't understand the hate. Exactly.. Why should EG go and talk to TSL management. Puma can tell them he's leaving himself.. Lmao I'm open to hearing why EG should converse with TSL management.. but amongst the thousand or so posts condemning EG the only reason I've heard is that it's respectful and it saves their feelings from getting hurt. Agreed. Why should they. Do I see a wall of rules this team must follow? Nope. Exactly. If I were a team manager, I'd be stealing as many koreans and taking them over the west as possible. They are good at the game, why would any smart manager not do this? It's good for all involved. If TSL is mad about the decision, they shold've taken care of such an AAA player better. Yea man coaches and managers are transparent. Hey! Lets do this, everytime a Korean comes to a foreign event lets drag him to one side when he goes to the toilet and offer him a contract. A contract far better than his current one. "Hey MVP and DRG your teams are paying you $1k per month? We'll give you $5k". Then tell his management after he signs it! Nothing wrong at all ! You're silly. It's called bidding and contracts. It's not the like the players are being kidnapped when nobody is looking. How long ago were NASL finals? This deal took awhile to finalize. Thats not my point obviously. Im just exaggerating. My point is that teams should go through management as a form of respect and ethic.
Not if he wasn't under contract. There seems to be mixed messages here but if he was only practising with TSL and not under contract it should be Puma's responsibility to communicate with TSL, not EG.
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On July 21 2011 23:52 Bitters wrote:
I can't really understand this thread, maybe someone can help me out.
Puma is on TSL, goes and dominates NASL. Is approached by EG about joining a foreign team, he decides he wants to go this route. Puma tells TSL the news, they can:
A) Tell him no, you are under contract and cannot leave the team
B) Tell him yes, we will release you from your contractual obligations
C) Can't tell him anything, because they don't have him under contract
If "A", then this news doesn't occur. If "B", then TSL opted not to enforce their contract and have no reason to complain about Puma leaving, and EG could be seen in a negative light for trying to poach a contracted player. If "C", then TSL would be upset and complain about the situation because they did not have the intelligence or foresight to contract their "professional" players on a "professional" team. With these teams being involved with money, salaries, sponsors, there is no reason to think they do not need contracts.
With the response from TSL (complaining and finger pointing), it seems "C" is the likely scenario. I have no idea how someone can blame EG for doing what's right by them. If you have a star player not under contract, you do what you can to get him under contract. You don't need to talk to TSL, they are his team, not his "agent" (since he likely doesn't have an agent, Puma would represent himself then). When professional sports players are unrestricted free agents (not under contract) you don't need to deal with the team they were on, you deal with the agent.
And if Puma was under contract ("B"), then TSL should give its head a shake for not enforcing there own stipulations and then complaining about Puma joining a team after they green-lighted his release.
Edit:
And for those saying "but in Korea, you do this with manner, talk to the team, etc."...
Sorry, but an American team making an offer at NASL (on American soil in an American based tournament) to someone playing a Global e-sport, should not be expected to follow a single countries rules. If they do, then they are going out of their way to be exceptionally inclusive, but I don't see how this should be the standard.
People stopped arguing about whether it was lawfully right or wrong a while ago, the centre of arguement seems to be about whether it was right or wrong from a moral POV.
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On July 21 2011 23:59 neptunesak wrote:
Horrible move by Puma. What does he expect to get from EG who can't even perform well in tournies except IdrA.
Money. And sorry, but at the end of the day, that's what will drive E-Sports. The players play for a living, who are you to judge someone who wants to live more comfortably?
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If the rumors are true on how EG went about acquiring Puma, I will have to find another team to root for. Even under the suggested conditions (that Puma may not have even made a salary) I can't stand to think EG would have went to Puma directly without speaking to his team/managers. Just seems very dirty and completely unprofessional. Shame on you EG.
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this silliness about free agency is a technicality and you all know it. contracts don't exist in esports because there is no governing entity. in the lack of such an entity, most teams have stepped up to the plate and acted as if there were an unwritten rule of honour/ethics between. eg, obviously, has not. therefore, the people criticizing them for their lack of integrity are spot on.
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On July 21 2011 23:59 Dante08 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 23:55 Proko wrote:On July 21 2011 23:53 Dante08 wrote:On July 21 2011 23:42 stormchaser wrote:On July 21 2011 23:39 arbitrageur wrote:On July 21 2011 23:37 stormchaser wrote:On July 21 2011 23:35 Sandro wrote:On July 21 2011 23:33 stormchaser wrote:On July 21 2011 23:30 pHelix Equilibria wrote:
I'm not surprised. Its EG. Evil as hell, way to go behind the team's back. I don't understand why people can't just wish Puma the best of luck for his decision. So many people have to put a negative spin on change. He was probably paid shit if he accepted this deal with EG, c'mon guys, I'm sure he's happier than ever now. Nobody is shitting on Puma, just EG, and until we get their side of the story, they deserve it. No they don't. They did not break ANY RULES whatsoever, in the law, in ethics, none. They had talks with the player and Puma obviously has faith in EG, so he accepted. No one forced him and I'm sure he received many other deals as well. Stop pretending EG is some evil corporation, I don't understand the hate. Exactly.. Why should EG go and talk to TSL management. Puma can tell them he's leaving himself.. Lmao I'm open to hearing why EG should converse with TSL management.. but amongst the thousand or so posts condemning EG the only reason I've heard is that it's respectful and it saves their feelings from getting hurt. Agreed. Why should they. Do I see a wall of rules this team must follow? Nope. Exactly. If I were a team manager, I'd be stealing as many koreans and taking them over the west as possible. They are good at the game, why would any smart manager not do this? It's good for all involved. If TSL is mad about the decision, they shold've taken care of such an AAA player better. Yea man coaches and managers are transparent. Hey! Lets do this, everytime a Korean comes to a foreign event lets drag him to one side when he goes to the toilet and offer him a contract. A contract far better than his current one. "Hey MVP and DRG your teams are paying you $1k per month? We'll give you $5k". Then tell his management after he signs it! Nothing wrong at all ! You're silly. It's called bidding and contracts. It's not the like the players are being kidnapped when nobody is looking. How long ago were NASL finals? This deal took awhile to finalize. Thats not my point obviously. Im just exaggerating. My point is that teams should go through management as a form of respect and ethic.
To my mind, you should go to the player first as a form of respect to them as a person. Then find out their contractual obligations. Puma is a human being and can make his own decisions. I feel like the idea that you would go talk to the manager first, unless that was a contract clause is dehumanizing. If you want to hire me, talk to me, or talk to someone I have authorized to speak for me.
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On July 22 2011 00:01 CurLy[] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 23:59 neptunesak wrote:
Horrible move by Puma. What does he expect to get from EG who can't even perform well in tournies except IdrA. Isn't it obvious? $$$$$$$
Yeah, perhaps the 50k from NASL were not enough. I don't know how long he was in TSL, but that's a pretty good result. I understand him if he got a good salary tho, stability is important.
But as we don't know his previous conditions and EG will certainly not disclose his new contract, we can only speculate.
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On July 21 2011 23:59 neptunesak wrote:
Horrible move by Puma. What does he expect to get from EG who can't even perform well in tournies except IdrA.
Money. And if you think he will practise exclusively with EG members I'm just going to settle with saying I just think you are wrong.
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On July 22 2011 00:03 Shiori wrote:
this silliness about free agency is a technicality and you all know it. contracts don't exist in esports because there is no governing entity. in the lack of such an entity, most teams have stepped up to the plate and acted as if there were an unwritten rule of honour/ethics between. eg, obviously, has not. therefore, the people criticizing them for their lack of integrity are spot on.
Evidence?
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On July 21 2011 23:55 tooPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 23:51 Rinrun wrote:On July 21 2011 23:47 tooPrime wrote:On July 21 2011 23:45 Rinrun wrote:On July 21 2011 23:42 tooPrime wrote:On July 21 2011 23:40 Rinrun wrote:On July 21 2011 23:35 tooPrime wrote:
Okay, TL is now worse than Cleveland Cavalier fans. Shameful day. This is just one thread, it doesn't represent the entire site. What's wrong with people looking for loyalty... What's wrong with people leaving a crappy team that doesn't pay them what they deserve, and then bad mouths them in the media when they do? Now how can you be sure that he was paid inadequately? I'd like to see some sources. Also on the topic of "badmouthing" that happened after the fact, not before. I believe on Fruitdealer and Trickster had salaries and no one else. Also if you reread my post I said that they are bad mouthing Puma and EG right now my calling this out when they really should have just given Puma a contract a long time ago. You believe, that's not concrete. Also, bad mouthing right now- did they bad mouth him before or after he left? As I have said earlier in this thread, I want some concrete evidence to whether puma was or was not under contract with TSL. If he was under contract then how could he leave TSL? Sheth also said on twitter he was a free agent. I said "believe" because I don't have the official documents with me good sir, but it's what people in the know have said in the past on various podcasts etc. Also, right now means after he left.
You missed my presentation of a question as an actual question, I guess that comes with the fact that it is not me speaking; any team would be mad if a player was taken away from them. But that is not the main issue.
From the translations given by the OP you can see that the wording of the coach leads one to believe that he was under contract- by using the words "released". Yes, I understand that this is just grasping straws. But it is just as good as any evidence put forth by your side.
I am on the fence with this one, like I have said before- I want to see some concrete evidence .
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EPT
