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On July 21 2011 18:37 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:36 koreasilver wrote:On July 21 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:32 Demonace34 wrote:On July 21 2011 18:30 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:29 Defacer wrote:On July 21 2011 18:24 Pekkz wrote:
They truely are evil geniuses.
Pretty disgusting way to go about it indeed. I agree they're evil geniuses, but I think how they went about it was absolutely baller. Shine on EG, you evil bastards. Thank you for continuing to raise the stakes and set the bar for e-sports teams high. If, as a result of EG's aggressiveness: a) Korean teams have to raise the standard of living and pay for their players, and b) foreign teams have to scout and bring on Korean players to remain competitive then that's good for the sport in the long run. c) negative impact on the korean- EG relationship in stacraft2 (which has very evidently already happened, just look at the response in playxp) I fixed it for you. Stop acting like this one action has so many ramifications to korean-foreign relations. GO READ PLAYXP. (i'm korean and i'm saying this after perusing playxp along with TL for the past hour or so) Koreans on the internet are sensationalist and overreactive to hell, and they suffer from a collective ADHD and a chronic short-term memory. I wouldn't really take it very seriously. yeah and i'm not gonna take someone who generalize an entire country's people (on the internet) like that and insult them seriously..
You generalized an entire country's people saying our relationship in sc2 will be damaged because a few people on the internet are mad.
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On July 21 2011 18:37 Benga wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:34 legatus legionis wrote:On July 21 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 21 2011 18:10 Chaggi wrote:On July 21 2011 18:09 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 21 2011 18:07 KeksX wrote:On July 21 2011 18:06 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 21 2011 18:04 KeksX wrote:On July 21 2011 18:03 starcraft2rush wrote:On July 21 2011 18:02 KeksX wrote:
[quote]
Against foreigners, maybe?
Then suddenly koreans, IdrA not winning. A coincidence? Idra got 4th.?? everyone else got fukin slaughtered by the koreans as well. The point is that IdrA can't stand against the koreans constantly, he is not at their level. How is that going to help against koreans? Yea sure, PuMa will beat foreigners, too, but he won't be able to beat koreans constantly by just practicing with bad players. Why do you want SC2 to fail outside of korea so hard? Why not give foreign teams a chance to take the game seriously before the whole "puma will turn to shit without korean practice partners" line? I don't want SC2 to fail, it's just that foreigners are clearly not able to compete with the koreans. They have shitty practice conditions and also focus on marketing/PR way too much. To say it in the words of an ancient member: Foreigners still suck. And how do they get better? By GETTING GOOD PLAYERS AND TEAM HOUSES. This is what EG is doing. If your logic is that Real practice + Team house = bad players because they are not in korea, you are being kinda racist. Except you don't understand why Korea succeeds as well as they do. The culture here supports progamers. Ask anyone on the street about pro gaming and most people in the States would just laugh at you. EG House is a right step, but no one is silly enough to think that it's enough to compete with all the perks of living in Korea to be a top player. It has to start somewhere. EG is doing it right. Bring in a top Korean pro, get a team house, practice like the Koreans and have the environment like a Korean pro house. Foreigners cannot continue to rely on just going to Korea to reach their level. They need to raise the level right here in the States and in Europe. What EG is doing will do just that. I hope they are doing it right, but that just has to be seen. After Cool and Tester swapped didn't they enjoy the freedom and slack a lot? Say Puma comes over to the EG House, who's to stop him from sleeping in and chilling in the pool. I don't know how the house works but just bringing in a pro, getting a team house and practice harder than normal does not make it anywhere similar to what makes a Korean house produce the results it does. It could somewhat approach the idea and hopefully that is enough to make everyone else involved step it up, other American/European teams, ladder quality, "dominating tournament performances". I hope that will happen but what I "worry" about the most is that in the end, it's all about the players and everyone involved to give up everything and go die hard champion mode. When you don't get utterly slaughtered like you would in Korea, I feel you are going to miss the essential motivation that comes from that to actually pull through and get results. Let alone the efficacy of practicing in that environment. I also worry that a talented player like Puma will start to enjoy the freedom he is given and will in turn become a washed up player. Obviously I cannot make any claim about this since it's all up to him, even if he does decide to chill more there is no way I can blame him for that or hold it against him. It could however contribute to some of the detriment that comes from false hope. With that I mean I hope the other EG players don't depend themselves on someone like Puma. Let me just end that I do agree it could be a move in the right direction, there are also a lot of valid uncertainties people can point out so it will all just have to be seen if it goes as desired. Agreed.After Idra came to NA he started practicing 3 hours a day. Now he cant even compete with koreans.
LOL you must be kidding, some of the pro Korea garbage is really getting comical. Some people act like that stepping foot on korean soil makes you a SC god. Most of the time he's playing Koreans now is against Code S players only and players like MC at that.
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On July 21 2011 18:34 legatus legionis wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 21 2011 18:10 Chaggi wrote:On July 21 2011 18:09 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 21 2011 18:07 KeksX wrote:On July 21 2011 18:06 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 21 2011 18:04 KeksX wrote:On July 21 2011 18:03 starcraft2rush wrote:On July 21 2011 18:02 KeksX wrote:On July 21 2011 18:01 Demonace34 wrote:
[quote]
How many MLG's has there been? Wait, did he win one of those....last year maybe? Against foreigners, maybe? Then suddenly koreans, IdrA not winning. A coincidence? Idra got 4th.?? everyone else got fukin slaughtered by the koreans as well. The point is that IdrA can't stand against the koreans constantly, he is not at their level. How is that going to help against koreans? Yea sure, PuMa will beat foreigners, too, but he won't be able to beat koreans constantly by just practicing with bad players. Why do you want SC2 to fail outside of korea so hard? Why not give foreign teams a chance to take the game seriously before the whole "puma will turn to shit without korean practice partners" line? I don't want SC2 to fail, it's just that foreigners are clearly not able to compete with the koreans. They have shitty practice conditions and also focus on marketing/PR way too much. To say it in the words of an ancient member: Foreigners still suck. And how do they get better? By GETTING GOOD PLAYERS AND TEAM HOUSES. This is what EG is doing. If your logic is that Real practice + Team house = bad players because they are not in korea, you are being kinda racist. Except you don't understand why Korea succeeds as well as they do. The culture here supports progamers. Ask anyone on the street about pro gaming and most people in the States would just laugh at you. EG House is a right step, but no one is silly enough to think that it's enough to compete with all the perks of living in Korea to be a top player. It has to start somewhere. EG is doing it right. Bring in a top Korean pro, get a team house, practice like the Koreans and have the environment like a Korean pro house. Foreigners cannot continue to rely on just going to Korea to reach their level. They need to raise the level right here in the States and in Europe. What EG is doing will do just that. I hope they are doing it right, but that just has to be seen. After Cool and Tester swapped didn't they enjoy the freedom and slack a lot? Say Puma comes over to the EG House, who's to stop him from sleeping in and chilling in the pool. I don't know how the house works but just bringing in a pro, getting a team house and practice harder than normal does not make it anywhere similar to what makes a Korean house produce the results it does. It could somewhat approach the idea and hopefully that is enough to make everyone else involved step it up, other American/European teams, ladder quality, "dominating tournament performances". I hope that will happen but what I "worry" about the most is that in the end, it's all about the players and everyone involved to give up everything and go die hard champion mode. When you don't get utterly slaughtered like you would in Korea, I feel you are going to miss the essential motivation that comes from that to actually pull through and get results. Let alone the efficacy of practicing in that environment. I also worry that a talented player like Puma will start to enjoy the freedom he is given and will in turn become a washed up player. Obviously I cannot make any claim about this since it's all up to him, even if he does decide to chill more there is no way I can blame him for that or hold it against him. It could however contribute to some of the detriment that comes from false hope. With that I mean I hope the other EG players don't depend themselves on someone like Puma. Let me just end that I do agree it could be a move in the right direction, there are also a lot of valid uncertainties people can point out so it will all just have to be seen if it goes as desired.
Of course there are uncertainties. But you know what, at some point, this just needs to be done. Or foreigners will forever be behind Korea. Sending your entire team to Korea (which I loved FXO doing so) is not the long term answer. The long term answer is building the infrastructure in the foreign scene.
Incontrol seems pretty damn serious about the EG house being run correctly. Ultimately it comes down to execution, but I don't think its fair to write it off before its even happened.
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On July 21 2011 18:39 TBO wrote:
I wonder if they give Puma a Salary similar to Idra's or if they decided to use his inexperience.
On July 21 2011 18:39 SafeAsCheese wrote:
edit - wrong thread
haha just thought I posted in wrong thread for a second 
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On July 21 2011 18:26 tripledoubles wrote:
TSL = Cleveland Cavaliers
PuMa = LeBron James the Quitness
EG = Miami Heat
That is a stupid analogy! TSL is weak and doesn't have contracts and probably doesn't pay any salary!
Why stay there? Because they are cute? Maybe he should have stayed out of loyalty but the guy wants money and a contract! Like everybody, right?
This is bussiness.. it's not just a game!
I just hope he goes to the EG house in the USA or else his skill will diminish by playing only ladder!
EG needs another terran.. if you look at their team they have
zergs:
idra
machine
lazygamer
strifecro
protoss:
axlav
incontrol
terran:
demuslim
puma
now i believe they have a much better team because puma will improve the overall skills of the team!! TvT vs demuslim, TvP and TvZ !
In return he gets money, contract and good practice partners even if a korean team might be more competitive i believe EG bootcamping with these guys is very good also!
i think overall it's good for EG, puma and really bad for TSL but it's their fault for not having contracts and salary!
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On July 21 2011 18:37 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:34 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:33 farvacola wrote:On July 21 2011 18:30 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:29 Defacer wrote:On July 21 2011 18:24 Pekkz wrote:
They truely are evil geniuses.
Pretty disgusting way to go about it indeed. I agree they're evil geniuses, but I think how they went about it was absolutely baller. Shine on EG, you evil bastards. Thank you for continuing to raise the stakes and set the bar for e-sports teams high. If, as a result of EG's aggressiveness: a) Korean teams have to raise the standard of living and pay for their players, and b) foreign teams have to scout and bring on Korean players to remain competitive then that's good for the sport in the long run. c) negative impact on the korean-foreign relationship in stacraft2 (which has very evidently already happened, just look at the response in playxp) "negative impact on the korean-foreign relationship in stacraft2 (which has very evidently already happened, just look at the response in korean 4chan" notice how nonsensical that looks? Again, assumptions, assumptions, assumptions. you obviously have no idea, if you're juxtaposing 4chan and playxp. playxp is pretty much the biggest korean SC2 community website. not even close to 4chan, that's more like dcinside.com please, if you have no idea what you're talking about, just dont say anything.. If what you say is true, then their threads are likely to be just as full of hot air and over-dramatization as teamliquids. If Koreans based their conception of the foreigner sc2 scene based solely on TL thread posts then we would all be damned.
i said negative impact, as in the perspective on foreign teams being negatively affected
where in the world did you get that koreans based their conception solely on TL thread posts
jesus christ, sometimes posting on TL feels like talking to a wall
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On July 21 2011 18:38 alexanderzero wrote:
Sounds like the Koreans are being self-centered elitists as usual. What right do they have to get so angry if PuMa was offered a better contract by a non-Korean team? I have a feeling that if Puma had moved to another Korean team, such as oGs or StarTale, this wouldn't be nearly as dramatic.
I will concede, however, that if PuMa is going to be practicing only with foreigners now, that his eSports career is doomed.
There are plenty of pro foreigners that have a better financial situation than a lot of the Koreans. You could argue about his skill level but to say his esports career is doomed is just... ehm silly.
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For all we know TSL were beating poor little Puma for every supply block he had, and the kind staff at EG swooped in to save him. Until facts are full and out on the table we can only guess. and so I stand by my TSL are player beaters and EG saved the day.
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TSL is obviously doing something VERY wrong within their team. As far as EG's part, hate to say it but, it's just business. TSL could have prevented this if they had provided more opportunities for Puma. Think about it: everyone has JUST really started talking about Puma as a huge threat. If he had more opportunities before NASL he probably would have blew up way earlier (not saying that he didn't already have a loyal fan base prior). When it comes down to it, if TSL had truly kept Puma happy he wouldn't have even considered moving. This is E-Sports after all. No contract=Free Agent=still part of the team but available for contract negotiations with other teams. EG basically picked of a Free Agent IMO, good for them, bad for TSL
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On July 21 2011 18:39 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:37 Benga wrote:On July 21 2011 18:34 legatus legionis wrote:On July 21 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 21 2011 18:10 Chaggi wrote:On July 21 2011 18:09 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 21 2011 18:07 KeksX wrote:On July 21 2011 18:06 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 21 2011 18:04 KeksX wrote:On July 21 2011 18:03 starcraft2rush wrote:
[quote]
Idra got 4th.?? everyone else got fukin slaughtered by the koreans as well.
The point is that IdrA can't stand against the koreans constantly, he is not at their level. How is that going to help against koreans? Yea sure, PuMa will beat foreigners, too, but he won't be able to beat koreans constantly by just practicing with bad players. Why do you want SC2 to fail outside of korea so hard? Why not give foreign teams a chance to take the game seriously before the whole "puma will turn to shit without korean practice partners" line? I don't want SC2 to fail, it's just that foreigners are clearly not able to compete with the koreans. They have shitty practice conditions and also focus on marketing/PR way too much. To say it in the words of an ancient member: Foreigners still suck. And how do they get better? By GETTING GOOD PLAYERS AND TEAM HOUSES. This is what EG is doing. If your logic is that Real practice + Team house = bad players because they are not in korea, you are being kinda racist. Except you don't understand why Korea succeeds as well as they do. The culture here supports progamers. Ask anyone on the street about pro gaming and most people in the States would just laugh at you. EG House is a right step, but no one is silly enough to think that it's enough to compete with all the perks of living in Korea to be a top player. It has to start somewhere. EG is doing it right. Bring in a top Korean pro, get a team house, practice like the Koreans and have the environment like a Korean pro house. Foreigners cannot continue to rely on just going to Korea to reach their level. They need to raise the level right here in the States and in Europe. What EG is doing will do just that. I hope they are doing it right, but that just has to be seen. After Cool and Tester swapped didn't they enjoy the freedom and slack a lot? Say Puma comes over to the EG House, who's to stop him from sleeping in and chilling in the pool. I don't know how the house works but just bringing in a pro, getting a team house and practice harder than normal does not make it anywhere similar to what makes a Korean house produce the results it does. It could somewhat approach the idea and hopefully that is enough to make everyone else involved step it up, other American/European teams, ladder quality, "dominating tournament performances". I hope that will happen but what I "worry" about the most is that in the end, it's all about the players and everyone involved to give up everything and go die hard champion mode. When you don't get utterly slaughtered like you would in Korea, I feel you are going to miss the essential motivation that comes from that to actually pull through and get results. Let alone the efficacy of practicing in that environment. I also worry that a talented player like Puma will start to enjoy the freedom he is given and will in turn become a washed up player. Obviously I cannot make any claim about this since it's all up to him, even if he does decide to chill more there is no way I can blame him for that or hold it against him. It could however contribute to some of the detriment that comes from false hope. With that I mean I hope the other EG players don't depend themselves on someone like Puma. Let me just end that I do agree it could be a move in the right direction, there are also a lot of valid uncertainties people can point out so it will all just have to be seen if it goes as desired. Agreed.After Idra came to NA he started practicing 3 hours a day. Now he cant even compete with koreans. LOL you must be kidding, some of the pro Korea garbage is really getting comical.
So stating the facts is "pro korea garbage"?
Or are you talking about the foreigners winning GSL? Or koreans losing in MLG and other foreign tournaments?
Oh wait...
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On July 21 2011 18:38 alexanderzero wrote:
Sounds like the Koreans are being self-centered elitists as usual. What right do they have to get so angry if PuMa was offered a better contract by a non-Korean team? I have a feeling that if Puma had moved to another Korean team, such as oGs or StarTale, this wouldn't be nearly as dramatic.
I will concede, however, that if PuMa is going to be practicing only with foreigners now, that his eSports career is doomed.
Probably because other Korean team will likely go through the proper channel and not just poach the kids when he's thousands of miles away from his teammates and coach
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On July 21 2011 18:39 Mycl wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:37 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:36 koreasilver wrote:On July 21 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:32 Demonace34 wrote:On July 21 2011 18:30 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:29 Defacer wrote:On July 21 2011 18:24 Pekkz wrote:
They truely are evil geniuses.
Pretty disgusting way to go about it indeed. I agree they're evil geniuses, but I think how they went about it was absolutely baller. Shine on EG, you evil bastards. Thank you for continuing to raise the stakes and set the bar for e-sports teams high. If, as a result of EG's aggressiveness: a) Korean teams have to raise the standard of living and pay for their players, and b) foreign teams have to scout and bring on Korean players to remain competitive then that's good for the sport in the long run. c) negative impact on the korean- EG relationship in stacraft2 (which has very evidently already happened, just look at the response in playxp) I fixed it for you. Stop acting like this one action has so many ramifications to korean-foreign relations. GO READ PLAYXP. (i'm korean and i'm saying this after perusing playxp along with TL for the past hour or so) Koreans on the internet are sensationalist and overreactive to hell, and they suffer from a collective ADHD and a chronic short-term memory. I wouldn't really take it very seriously. yeah and i'm not gonna take someone who generalize an entire country's people (on the internet) like that and insult them seriously.. You generalized an entire country's people saying our relationship in sc2 will be damaged because a few people on the internet are mad.
a few people? playxp = sc2 community in korea. LOADS of negative posts on playxp.
koreasilver = one guy on TL.
it's fact that the view on foreigners/teams have been impacted negatively already.
where the hell did i "generalize?"
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On July 21 2011 18:40 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:39 Serpico wrote:On July 21 2011 18:37 Benga wrote:On July 21 2011 18:34 legatus legionis wrote:On July 21 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 21 2011 18:10 Chaggi wrote:On July 21 2011 18:09 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 21 2011 18:07 KeksX wrote:On July 21 2011 18:06 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 21 2011 18:04 KeksX wrote:
[quote]
The point is that IdrA can't stand against the koreans constantly, he is not at their level. How is that going to help against koreans?
Yea sure, PuMa will beat foreigners, too, but he won't be able to beat koreans constantly by just practicing with bad players. Why do you want SC2 to fail outside of korea so hard? Why not give foreign teams a chance to take the game seriously before the whole "puma will turn to shit without korean practice partners" line? I don't want SC2 to fail, it's just that foreigners are clearly not able to compete with the koreans. They have shitty practice conditions and also focus on marketing/PR way too much. To say it in the words of an ancient member: Foreigners still suck. And how do they get better? By GETTING GOOD PLAYERS AND TEAM HOUSES. This is what EG is doing. If your logic is that Real practice + Team house = bad players because they are not in korea, you are being kinda racist. Except you don't understand why Korea succeeds as well as they do. The culture here supports progamers. Ask anyone on the street about pro gaming and most people in the States would just laugh at you. EG House is a right step, but no one is silly enough to think that it's enough to compete with all the perks of living in Korea to be a top player. It has to start somewhere. EG is doing it right. Bring in a top Korean pro, get a team house, practice like the Koreans and have the environment like a Korean pro house. Foreigners cannot continue to rely on just going to Korea to reach their level. They need to raise the level right here in the States and in Europe. What EG is doing will do just that. I hope they are doing it right, but that just has to be seen. After Cool and Tester swapped didn't they enjoy the freedom and slack a lot? Say Puma comes over to the EG House, who's to stop him from sleeping in and chilling in the pool. I don't know how the house works but just bringing in a pro, getting a team house and practice harder than normal does not make it anywhere similar to what makes a Korean house produce the results it does. It could somewhat approach the idea and hopefully that is enough to make everyone else involved step it up, other American/European teams, ladder quality, "dominating tournament performances". I hope that will happen but what I "worry" about the most is that in the end, it's all about the players and everyone involved to give up everything and go die hard champion mode. When you don't get utterly slaughtered like you would in Korea, I feel you are going to miss the essential motivation that comes from that to actually pull through and get results. Let alone the efficacy of practicing in that environment. I also worry that a talented player like Puma will start to enjoy the freedom he is given and will in turn become a washed up player. Obviously I cannot make any claim about this since it's all up to him, even if he does decide to chill more there is no way I can blame him for that or hold it against him. It could however contribute to some of the detriment that comes from false hope. With that I mean I hope the other EG players don't depend themselves on someone like Puma. Let me just end that I do agree it could be a move in the right direction, there are also a lot of valid uncertainties people can point out so it will all just have to be seen if it goes as desired. Agreed.After Idra came to NA he started practicing 3 hours a day. Now he cant even compete with koreans. LOL you must be kidding, some of the pro Korea garbage is really getting comical. So stating the facts is "pro korea garbage"? Or are you talking about the foreigners winning GSL? Or koreans losing in MLG and other foreign tournaments? Oh wait...
You can stop saying nonsensical stuff now. Saying unequivocally he can't beat koreans is plain stupidity.
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On July 21 2011 18:35 SafeAsCheese wrote:
Who cares if koreans are mad?
I lost my respect for their opinion with the SlayersEVE bullshit.
It's not like they can boycott foreigners or something, their SC2 scene is already shakey.
So you know the entirety of Korean netizens' opinion concerning the Eve incident, huh? Must be nice to have resources at your disposal to discern their stance, even those from other forums. Good stuff.
EDIT: Perhaps your meant the PlayXP community when referring to Koreans, in which case just ignore my post.
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On July 21 2011 18:41 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:39 Mycl wrote:On July 21 2011 18:37 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:36 koreasilver wrote:On July 21 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:32 Demonace34 wrote:On July 21 2011 18:30 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:29 Defacer wrote:On July 21 2011 18:24 Pekkz wrote:
They truely are evil geniuses.
Pretty disgusting way to go about it indeed. I agree they're evil geniuses, but I think how they went about it was absolutely baller. Shine on EG, you evil bastards. Thank you for continuing to raise the stakes and set the bar for e-sports teams high. If, as a result of EG's aggressiveness: a) Korean teams have to raise the standard of living and pay for their players, and b) foreign teams have to scout and bring on Korean players to remain competitive then that's good for the sport in the long run. c) negative impact on the korean- EG relationship in stacraft2 (which has very evidently already happened, just look at the response in playxp) I fixed it for you. Stop acting like this one action has so many ramifications to korean-foreign relations. GO READ PLAYXP. (i'm korean and i'm saying this after perusing playxp along with TL for the past hour or so) Koreans on the internet are sensationalist and overreactive to hell, and they suffer from a collective ADHD and a chronic short-term memory. I wouldn't really take it very seriously. yeah and i'm not gonna take someone who generalize an entire country's people (on the internet) like that and insult them seriously.. You generalized an entire country's people saying our relationship in sc2 will be damaged because a few people on the internet are mad. a few people? playxp = sc2 community in korea. LOADS of negative posts on playxp. koreasilver = one guy on TL. it's fact that the view on foreigners/teams have been impacted negatively already. where the hell did i "generalize?"
The hell are you talking about, do people never learn? There is always a local minority, then there is a majority that doesn't give a shit. How on Earth is this going to impact foreigners negatively? Do you think Koreans are thick to the point where they think EG = World (presuming they think this is bad business practice at all).
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On July 21 2011 18:39 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:37 Benga wrote:On July 21 2011 18:34 legatus legionis wrote:On July 21 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 21 2011 18:10 Chaggi wrote:On July 21 2011 18:09 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 21 2011 18:07 KeksX wrote:On July 21 2011 18:06 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 21 2011 18:04 KeksX wrote:On July 21 2011 18:03 starcraft2rush wrote:
[quote]
Idra got 4th.?? everyone else got fukin slaughtered by the koreans as well.
The point is that IdrA can't stand against the koreans constantly, he is not at their level. How is that going to help against koreans? Yea sure, PuMa will beat foreigners, too, but he won't be able to beat koreans constantly by just practicing with bad players. Why do you want SC2 to fail outside of korea so hard? Why not give foreign teams a chance to take the game seriously before the whole "puma will turn to shit without korean practice partners" line? I don't want SC2 to fail, it's just that foreigners are clearly not able to compete with the koreans. They have shitty practice conditions and also focus on marketing/PR way too much. To say it in the words of an ancient member: Foreigners still suck. And how do they get better? By GETTING GOOD PLAYERS AND TEAM HOUSES. This is what EG is doing. If your logic is that Real practice + Team house = bad players because they are not in korea, you are being kinda racist. Except you don't understand why Korea succeeds as well as they do. The culture here supports progamers. Ask anyone on the street about pro gaming and most people in the States would just laugh at you. EG House is a right step, but no one is silly enough to think that it's enough to compete with all the perks of living in Korea to be a top player. It has to start somewhere. EG is doing it right. Bring in a top Korean pro, get a team house, practice like the Koreans and have the environment like a Korean pro house. Foreigners cannot continue to rely on just going to Korea to reach their level. They need to raise the level right here in the States and in Europe. What EG is doing will do just that. I hope they are doing it right, but that just has to be seen. After Cool and Tester swapped didn't they enjoy the freedom and slack a lot? Say Puma comes over to the EG House, who's to stop him from sleeping in and chilling in the pool. I don't know how the house works but just bringing in a pro, getting a team house and practice harder than normal does not make it anywhere similar to what makes a Korean house produce the results it does. It could somewhat approach the idea and hopefully that is enough to make everyone else involved step it up, other American/European teams, ladder quality, "dominating tournament performances". I hope that will happen but what I "worry" about the most is that in the end, it's all about the players and everyone involved to give up everything and go die hard champion mode. When you don't get utterly slaughtered like you would in Korea, I feel you are going to miss the essential motivation that comes from that to actually pull through and get results. Let alone the efficacy of practicing in that environment. I also worry that a talented player like Puma will start to enjoy the freedom he is given and will in turn become a washed up player. Obviously I cannot make any claim about this since it's all up to him, even if he does decide to chill more there is no way I can blame him for that or hold it against him. It could however contribute to some of the detriment that comes from false hope. With that I mean I hope the other EG players don't depend themselves on someone like Puma. Let me just end that I do agree it could be a move in the right direction, there are also a lot of valid uncertainties people can point out so it will all just have to be seen if it goes as desired. Agreed.After Idra came to NA he started practicing 3 hours a day. Now he cant even compete with koreans. LOL you must be kidding, some of the pro Korea garbage is really getting comical. Some people act like that stepping foot on korean soil makes you a SC god. Most of the time he's playing Koreans now is against Code S players only and players like MC at that.
except that Idra admitted himself on live show that he only practice 3-4 hours per day during the past couple of months ?
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On July 21 2011 18:42 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:40 KeksX wrote:On July 21 2011 18:39 Serpico wrote:On July 21 2011 18:37 Benga wrote:On July 21 2011 18:34 legatus legionis wrote:On July 21 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 21 2011 18:10 Chaggi wrote:On July 21 2011 18:09 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 21 2011 18:07 KeksX wrote:On July 21 2011 18:06 SafeAsCheese wrote:
[quote]
Why do you want SC2 to fail outside of korea so hard?
Why not give foreign teams a chance to take the game seriously before the whole "puma will turn to shit without korean practice partners" line? I don't want SC2 to fail, it's just that foreigners are clearly not able to compete with the koreans. They have shitty practice conditions and also focus on marketing/PR way too much. To say it in the words of an ancient member: Foreigners still suck. And how do they get better? By GETTING GOOD PLAYERS AND TEAM HOUSES. This is what EG is doing. If your logic is that Real practice + Team house = bad players because they are not in korea, you are being kinda racist. Except you don't understand why Korea succeeds as well as they do. The culture here supports progamers. Ask anyone on the street about pro gaming and most people in the States would just laugh at you. EG House is a right step, but no one is silly enough to think that it's enough to compete with all the perks of living in Korea to be a top player. It has to start somewhere. EG is doing it right. Bring in a top Korean pro, get a team house, practice like the Koreans and have the environment like a Korean pro house. Foreigners cannot continue to rely on just going to Korea to reach their level. They need to raise the level right here in the States and in Europe. What EG is doing will do just that. I hope they are doing it right, but that just has to be seen. After Cool and Tester swapped didn't they enjoy the freedom and slack a lot? Say Puma comes over to the EG House, who's to stop him from sleeping in and chilling in the pool. I don't know how the house works but just bringing in a pro, getting a team house and practice harder than normal does not make it anywhere similar to what makes a Korean house produce the results it does. It could somewhat approach the idea and hopefully that is enough to make everyone else involved step it up, other American/European teams, ladder quality, "dominating tournament performances". I hope that will happen but what I "worry" about the most is that in the end, it's all about the players and everyone involved to give up everything and go die hard champion mode. When you don't get utterly slaughtered like you would in Korea, I feel you are going to miss the essential motivation that comes from that to actually pull through and get results. Let alone the efficacy of practicing in that environment. I also worry that a talented player like Puma will start to enjoy the freedom he is given and will in turn become a washed up player. Obviously I cannot make any claim about this since it's all up to him, even if he does decide to chill more there is no way I can blame him for that or hold it against him. It could however contribute to some of the detriment that comes from false hope. With that I mean I hope the other EG players don't depend themselves on someone like Puma. Let me just end that I do agree it could be a move in the right direction, there are also a lot of valid uncertainties people can point out so it will all just have to be seen if it goes as desired. Agreed.After Idra came to NA he started practicing 3 hours a day. Now he cant even compete with koreans. LOL you must be kidding, some of the pro Korea garbage is really getting comical. So stating the facts is "pro korea garbage"? Or are you talking about the foreigners winning GSL? Or koreans losing in MLG and other foreign tournaments? Oh wait... You can stop saying nonsensical stuff now. Saying unequivocally he can't beat koreans is plain stupidity.
He CAN beat koreans, but the statement was that he can't COMPETE with them. That is REALLY something different. Just look at the results of the past tournaments if you don't know what I mean.
(First 2-0 vs mc, but then 3-2 in the long run, losing vs mma because of stupid stuff etc.)
He was certainly one of the few foreigners that were able to compete with them, but since he left korea this is not the case anymore.
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On July 21 2011 18:37 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:36 koreasilver wrote:On July 21 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:32 Demonace34 wrote:On July 21 2011 18:30 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:29 Defacer wrote:On July 21 2011 18:24 Pekkz wrote:
They truely are evil geniuses.
Pretty disgusting way to go about it indeed. I agree they're evil geniuses, but I think how they went about it was absolutely baller. Shine on EG, you evil bastards. Thank you for continuing to raise the stakes and set the bar for e-sports teams high. If, as a result of EG's aggressiveness: a) Korean teams have to raise the standard of living and pay for their players, and b) foreign teams have to scout and bring on Korean players to remain competitive then that's good for the sport in the long run. c) negative impact on the korean- EG relationship in stacraft2 (which has very evidently already happened, just look at the response in playxp) I fixed it for you. Stop acting like this one action has so many ramifications to korean-foreign relations. GO READ PLAYXP. (i'm korean and i'm saying this after perusing playxp along with TL for the past hour or so) Koreans on the internet are sensationalist and overreactive to hell, and they suffer from a collective ADHD and a chronic short-term memory. I wouldn't really take it very seriously. yeah and i'm not gonna take someone who generalize an entire country's people (on the internet) like that and insult them seriously..
I read Korean sites too. Is it really that different from a site like TL? Not really. Most people get "outraged" at things here and there all the time everywhere, but in the end it all blows over and no one gives a shit. It's all overreactive and sensationalist. People are fucking stupid, and Korea isn't any different. In a lot of ways Korea is actually worse with these things.
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On July 21 2011 18:38 alexanderzero wrote:
Sounds like the Koreans are being self-centered elitists as usual. What right do they have to get so angry if PuMa was offered a better contract by a non-Korean team? I have a feeling that if Puma had moved to another Korean team, such as oGs or StarTale, this wouldn't be nearly as dramatic.
I will concede, however, that if PuMa is going to be practicing only with foreigners now, that his eSports career is doomed.
Its not that PuMa was offered a better contract. It wasn't that he left. It's just that there was a huge lack of respect from PuMa and EG. Respect and reputation is everything in Korea.
Understand this about Coach Lee, he loves his players like his kids. He's very good to them. I believe someone said this in a previous page: When Tester left TSL and was looking for a new team, he still consulted Coach Lee. Coach Lee helped Tester pick the "right team" for him even after Tester left. Everything between Coach Lee and Tester happened with mutual respect for eachother. What PuMa and EG did lacked respect.
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On July 21 2011 18:43 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:42 Serpico wrote:On July 21 2011 18:40 KeksX wrote:On July 21 2011 18:39 Serpico wrote:On July 21 2011 18:37 Benga wrote:On July 21 2011 18:34 legatus legionis wrote:On July 21 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 21 2011 18:10 Chaggi wrote:On July 21 2011 18:09 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 21 2011 18:07 KeksX wrote:
[quote]
I don't want SC2 to fail, it's just that foreigners are clearly not able to compete with the koreans. They have shitty practice conditions and also focus on marketing/PR way too much.
To say it in the words of an ancient member:
Foreigners still suck. And how do they get better? By GETTING GOOD PLAYERS AND TEAM HOUSES. This is what EG is doing. If your logic is that Real practice + Team house = bad players because they are not in korea, you are being kinda racist. Except you don't understand why Korea succeeds as well as they do. The culture here supports progamers. Ask anyone on the street about pro gaming and most people in the States would just laugh at you. EG House is a right step, but no one is silly enough to think that it's enough to compete with all the perks of living in Korea to be a top player. It has to start somewhere. EG is doing it right. Bring in a top Korean pro, get a team house, practice like the Koreans and have the environment like a Korean pro house. Foreigners cannot continue to rely on just going to Korea to reach their level. They need to raise the level right here in the States and in Europe. What EG is doing will do just that. I hope they are doing it right, but that just has to be seen. After Cool and Tester swapped didn't they enjoy the freedom and slack a lot? Say Puma comes over to the EG House, who's to stop him from sleeping in and chilling in the pool. I don't know how the house works but just bringing in a pro, getting a team house and practice harder than normal does not make it anywhere similar to what makes a Korean house produce the results it does. It could somewhat approach the idea and hopefully that is enough to make everyone else involved step it up, other American/European teams, ladder quality, "dominating tournament performances". I hope that will happen but what I "worry" about the most is that in the end, it's all about the players and everyone involved to give up everything and go die hard champion mode. When you don't get utterly slaughtered like you would in Korea, I feel you are going to miss the essential motivation that comes from that to actually pull through and get results. Let alone the efficacy of practicing in that environment. I also worry that a talented player like Puma will start to enjoy the freedom he is given and will in turn become a washed up player. Obviously I cannot make any claim about this since it's all up to him, even if he does decide to chill more there is no way I can blame him for that or hold it against him. It could however contribute to some of the detriment that comes from false hope. With that I mean I hope the other EG players don't depend themselves on someone like Puma. Let me just end that I do agree it could be a move in the right direction, there are also a lot of valid uncertainties people can point out so it will all just have to be seen if it goes as desired. Agreed.After Idra came to NA he started practicing 3 hours a day. Now he cant even compete with koreans. LOL you must be kidding, some of the pro Korea garbage is really getting comical. So stating the facts is "pro korea garbage"? Or are you talking about the foreigners winning GSL? Or koreans losing in MLG and other foreign tournaments? Oh wait... You can stop saying nonsensical stuff now. Saying unequivocally he can't beat koreans is plain stupidity. He CAN beat koreans, but the statement was that he can't COMPETE with them. That is REALLY something different.
It is, but not that way because compete doesn't even imply that he will win often at all, just be somewhere good enough to be competitive. So it's actually even worse.
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EPT
