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343 Posts
This thread is starting to get a little ridiculous, we dont know what really happened so its too early to blame people. There are a lot of possible scenario's. Maybe EG did contact TSL and maybe PUMA broke with his team and he is to culprit in this. What i'm trying to say is hold the shitstorm until the actual facts are released then make your conclusions.
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On July 21 2011 18:43 vyyye wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:41 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:39 Mycl wrote:On July 21 2011 18:37 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:36 koreasilver wrote:On July 21 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:32 Demonace34 wrote:On July 21 2011 18:30 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:29 Defacer wrote:On July 21 2011 18:24 Pekkz wrote:
They truely are evil geniuses.
Pretty disgusting way to go about it indeed. I agree they're evil geniuses, but I think how they went about it was absolutely baller. Shine on EG, you evil bastards. Thank you for continuing to raise the stakes and set the bar for e-sports teams high. If, as a result of EG's aggressiveness: a) Korean teams have to raise the standard of living and pay for their players, and b) foreign teams have to scout and bring on Korean players to remain competitive then that's good for the sport in the long run. c) negative impact on the korean- EG relationship in stacraft2 (which has very evidently already happened, just look at the response in playxp) I fixed it for you. Stop acting like this one action has so many ramifications to korean-foreign relations. GO READ PLAYXP. (i'm korean and i'm saying this after perusing playxp along with TL for the past hour or so) Koreans on the internet are sensationalist and overreactive to hell, and they suffer from a collective ADHD and a chronic short-term memory. I wouldn't really take it very seriously. yeah and i'm not gonna take someone who generalize an entire country's people (on the internet) like that and insult them seriously.. You generalized an entire country's people saying our relationship in sc2 will be damaged because a few people on the internet are mad. a few people? playxp = sc2 community in korea. LOADS of negative posts on playxp. koreasilver = one guy on TL. it's fact that the view on foreigners/teams have been impacted negatively already. where the hell did i "generalize?" The hell are you talking about, do people never learn? There is always a local minority, then there is a majority that doesn't give a shit. How on Earth is this going to impact foreigners negatively? Do you think Koreans are thick to the point where they think EG = World (presuming they think this is bad business practice at all).
they definitely do think this is bad business practice. it is crystal clear if you read korean websites right now. if you don't think a negative impact on the view of a foreign team does not affect the view on foreign teams in general (although the impact will be smaller compared to the former), i don't know what to say to you
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On July 21 2011 18:40 shell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:26 tripledoubles wrote:
TSL = Cleveland Cavaliers
PuMa = LeBron James the Quitness
EG = Miami Heat That is a stupid analogy! TSL is weak and doesn't have contracts and probably doesn't pay any salary! Why stay there? Because they are cute? Maybe he should have stayed out of loyalty but the guy wants money and a contract! Like everybody, right? This is bussiness.. it's not just a game! I just hope he goes to the EG house in the USA or else his skill will diminish by playing only ladder! EG needs another terran.. if you look at their team they have zergs: idra machine lazygamer strifecro protoss: axlav incontrol terran: demuslim puma now i believe they have a much better team because puma will improve the overall skills of the team!! TvT vs demuslim, TvP and TvZ ! In return he gets money, contract and good practice partners even if a korean team might be more competitive i believe EG bootcamping with these guys is very good also! i think overall it's good for EG, puma and really bad for TSL but it's their fault for not having contracts and salary!
Err since when is Lz zerg?  Anyway bad thing is, I very much doubt Puma is about to improve a whole lot with those people to practice with. Idra is the only one close to his level.
Dunno, seems like a pretty dubious move. Hope this leads to contracts with the players, has been very odd to see players just leave their teams without any real notification.
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On July 21 2011 18:32 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +
Dude how much more naive can you get?
My point is hes a kid.If your a kid you don't look at it long term and say:"Well shit i might as well stay in TSL my skill is improving but i earn JACK SHIT compared to what i could earn if i attend the foreign events.
He had one shot at the NASL, do you think other koreans won't compete in these tournaments? Look at NASL season 2. Full of other koreans. Do you honestly think that PuMa will keep up these "results"?
And again.I told you 2 times in this post but your too ignorant to read it and understand it.
Hes a 19 year old kid.Hes sight is too short term to see what may or may not happen.
From all he knows is he just won 50 k$ and can earn a hell of a lot more.He doesn't need TSL.
And your logic of of sc2 failing because more and more koreans are coming over is laughable.If suddenly half of the koreans join foreign pro teams.The foreigners will become better any way you turn it because they will have to in order for them to be able to win anything in the foreseeable future.
Do you have any proof that "foreigners will become better any way"? Because everything I see is, whenever a Korean enters a tournament, he wins it. And HuK is korean in that sense.
It's all about the practice.
You ask me if i have any proof of foreigners becoming better and than you say in your last line "It's all about the practice".And I told you in the post that Koreans will help foreign teams with their practice.
Again your acting like a naive little kid.When serious money starts rolling in,teams will MAKE players practice hard.If you don't practice your out.
The way it is right now I can tell that the gamers decide on their own when and how they want to practice.If you think this model will be endure than your more naive than i think.
The koreans may have the ethic and the moral to train.But foreigners.We have something else to move our asses for.Its money.Not to say Koreans are not working for the money.
But when team management starts to slam your ass down on the practice chair because they don't want to loose money its a whole different situation.
E-sports as it is now is relatively untainted and relieved from big corporate pressure.
If you think that it will stay that way than your an idiot.
There's a reason why NBA basketball has the best players in the world.And theres a reason why there is a lockout going on right now.Money.Its always going to be about the money.
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On July 21 2011 18:45 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:43 vyyye wrote:On July 21 2011 18:41 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:39 Mycl wrote:On July 21 2011 18:37 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:36 koreasilver wrote:On July 21 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:32 Demonace34 wrote:On July 21 2011 18:30 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:29 Defacer wrote:
[quote]
I agree they're evil geniuses, but I think how they went about it was absolutely baller.
Shine on EG, you evil bastards. Thank you for continuing to raise the stakes and set the bar for e-sports teams high.
If, as a result of EG's aggressiveness:
a) Korean teams have to raise the standard of living and pay for their players, and
b) foreign teams have to scout and bring on Korean players to remain competitive
then that's good for the sport in the long run.
c) negative impact on the korean- EG relationship in stacraft2 (which has very evidently already happened, just look at the response in playxp) I fixed it for you. Stop acting like this one action has so many ramifications to korean-foreign relations. GO READ PLAYXP. (i'm korean and i'm saying this after perusing playxp along with TL for the past hour or so) Koreans on the internet are sensationalist and overreactive to hell, and they suffer from a collective ADHD and a chronic short-term memory. I wouldn't really take it very seriously. yeah and i'm not gonna take someone who generalize an entire country's people (on the internet) like that and insult them seriously.. You generalized an entire country's people saying our relationship in sc2 will be damaged because a few people on the internet are mad. a few people? playxp = sc2 community in korea. LOADS of negative posts on playxp. koreasilver = one guy on TL. it's fact that the view on foreigners/teams have been impacted negatively already. where the hell did i "generalize?" The hell are you talking about, do people never learn? There is always a local minority, then there is a majority that doesn't give a shit. How on Earth is this going to impact foreigners negatively? Do you think Koreans are thick to the point where they think EG = World (presuming they think this is bad business practice at all). they definitely do think this is bad business practice. it is crystal clear if you read korean websites right now. if you don't think a negative impact on the view of a foreign team does not affect the view on foreign teams in general (although the impact will be smaller compared to the former), i don't know what to say to you
Don't act like you can quantify just how many Koreans are angry about this, reading forums hours after it happens isn't the best indicator and far from scientific.
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Australia8532 Posts
Seems like a pretty strange way to approach a player and i imagine it conflicts with some cultural nuances surrounding the issues of respect but at the end of the day it seems that the TSL coach was eventually able to deal with the move.
EGs vT matchups are going to be insane after this; it sort of makes PuMa a sell out as to become a better game you must train with the best and the best is most certainly in Korea. Overall, great for foreigners though so i am happy.
Maybe it will make the player market more competitive which is also exciting; ahh so much to think about :p
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Where is Puma going to stay? Is he remaining in Korea, but practicing from home (on ladder? Oo)?
Any chances of taking him abroad in the EG house?
Might've been posted before - if so, sorry.
Also - I understand the coach's frustration - but EG offered him a contract and probably a way better deal. In the end, everyone's winning.
When the coach says "something must be done against Foreign teams stealing korean players" - yeah, it's called contracts. Past time they take it to the next level, but still -
there's absolutely no reason that outstanding korean talent that isn't getting enough recognition in Korea not to be taken by a foreign team with better possibilities.
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lol at the first page.
Kinda bm move by EG, dunno how I feel yet.
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The end of TSL is near, they got no one left.
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I really don't like this move by EG. Puma would have done better to stay in Korea, and we've already seen that being on your own trying to play GSL doesn't work too well, and it seriously changes the relationship between Korean and foreign teams. We should be making ties and strengthening the relationship between Korea and the rest of the world, not just stealing their players. An arrangement similar to what SK have with oGs with NaDa and MC would've been far more agreeable.
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On July 21 2011 18:46 bkrow wrote:
Seems like a pretty strange way to approach a player and i imagine it conflicts with some cultural nuances surrounding the issues of respect but at the end of the day it seems that the TSL coach was eventually able to deal with the move.
EGs vT matchups are going to be insane after this; it sort of makes PuMa a sell out as to become a better game you must train with the best and the best is most certainly in Korea. Overall, great for foreigners though so i am happy.
Maybe it will make the player market more competitive which is also exciting; ahh so much to think about :p
How is it a sell out to go to a better situation for you when you don't even have any contractually predefined obligations to your former team? He gave them tons of publicity by winning the NASL.
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On July 21 2011 18:45 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:40 shell wrote:On July 21 2011 18:26 tripledoubles wrote:
TSL = Cleveland Cavaliers
PuMa = LeBron James the Quitness
EG = Miami Heat That is a stupid analogy! TSL is weak and doesn't have contracts and probably doesn't pay any salary! Why stay there? Because they are cute? Maybe he should have stayed out of loyalty but the guy wants money and a contract! Like everybody, right? This is bussiness.. it's not just a game! I just hope he goes to the EG house in the USA or else his skill will diminish by playing only ladder! EG needs another terran.. if you look at their team they have zergs: idra machine lazygamer strifecro protoss: axlav incontrol terran: demuslim puma now i believe they have a much better team because puma will improve the overall skills of the team!! TvT vs demuslim, TvP and TvZ ! In return he gets money, contract and good practice partners even if a korean team might be more competitive i believe EG bootcamping with these guys is very good also! i think overall it's good for EG, puma and really bad for TSL but it's their fault for not having contracts and salary! Err since when is Lz zerg? Anyway bad thing is, I very much doubt Puma is about to improve a whole lot with those people to practice with. Idra is the only one close to his level. Dunno, seems like a pretty dubious move. Hope this leads to contracts with the players, has been very odd to see players just leave their teams without any real notification.
LZ switched to Zerg about a month or so ago.
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On July 21 2011 18:45 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:45 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:43 vyyye wrote:On July 21 2011 18:41 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:39 Mycl wrote:On July 21 2011 18:37 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:36 koreasilver wrote:On July 21 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:32 Demonace34 wrote:On July 21 2011 18:30 Namu wrote:
[quote]
c) negative impact on the korean-EG relationship in stacraft2 (which has very evidently already happened, just look at the response in playxp) I fixed it for you. Stop acting like this one action has so many ramifications to korean-foreign relations. GO READ PLAYXP. (i'm korean and i'm saying this after perusing playxp along with TL for the past hour or so) Koreans on the internet are sensationalist and overreactive to hell, and they suffer from a collective ADHD and a chronic short-term memory. I wouldn't really take it very seriously. yeah and i'm not gonna take someone who generalize an entire country's people (on the internet) like that and insult them seriously.. You generalized an entire country's people saying our relationship in sc2 will be damaged because a few people on the internet are mad. a few people? playxp = sc2 community in korea. LOADS of negative posts on playxp. koreasilver = one guy on TL. it's fact that the view on foreigners/teams have been impacted negatively already. where the hell did i "generalize?" The hell are you talking about, do people never learn? There is always a local minority, then there is a majority that doesn't give a shit. How on Earth is this going to impact foreigners negatively? Do you think Koreans are thick to the point where they think EG = World (presuming they think this is bad business practice at all). they definitely do think this is bad business practice. it is crystal clear if you read korean websites right now. if you don't think a negative impact on the view of a foreign team does not affect the view on foreign teams in general (although the impact will be smaller compared to the former), i don't know what to say to you Don't act like you can quantify just how many Koreans are angry about this, reading forums hours after it happens isn't the best indicator and far from scientific.
no i can't quantify how many koreans are angry about this, and i did not "act" like i could.
i'm just stating facts here, i'm not sure where i'm being unclear about it either..
people are acting like how EG went about this will only have positive effects
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On July 21 2011 18:45 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:43 vyyye wrote:On July 21 2011 18:41 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:39 Mycl wrote:On July 21 2011 18:37 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:36 koreasilver wrote:On July 21 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:32 Demonace34 wrote:On July 21 2011 18:30 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:29 Defacer wrote:
[quote]
I agree they're evil geniuses, but I think how they went about it was absolutely baller.
Shine on EG, you evil bastards. Thank you for continuing to raise the stakes and set the bar for e-sports teams high.
If, as a result of EG's aggressiveness:
a) Korean teams have to raise the standard of living and pay for their players, and
b) foreign teams have to scout and bring on Korean players to remain competitive
then that's good for the sport in the long run.
c) negative impact on the korean- EG relationship in stacraft2 (which has very evidently already happened, just look at the response in playxp) I fixed it for you. Stop acting like this one action has so many ramifications to korean-foreign relations. GO READ PLAYXP. (i'm korean and i'm saying this after perusing playxp along with TL for the past hour or so) Koreans on the internet are sensationalist and overreactive to hell, and they suffer from a collective ADHD and a chronic short-term memory. I wouldn't really take it very seriously. yeah and i'm not gonna take someone who generalize an entire country's people (on the internet) like that and insult them seriously.. You generalized an entire country's people saying our relationship in sc2 will be damaged because a few people on the internet are mad. a few people? playxp = sc2 community in korea. LOADS of negative posts on playxp. koreasilver = one guy on TL. it's fact that the view on foreigners/teams have been impacted negatively already. where the hell did i "generalize?" The hell are you talking about, do people never learn? There is always a local minority, then there is a majority that doesn't give a shit. How on Earth is this going to impact foreigners negatively? Do you think Koreans are thick to the point where they think EG = World (presuming they think this is bad business practice at all). they definitely do think this is bad business practice. it is crystal clear if you read korean websites right now. if you don't think a negative impact on the view of a foreign team does not affect the view on foreign teams in general (although the impact will be smaller compared to the former), i don't know what to say to you
But I don't give a fuck about what people on the internet say, they're irrelevant and it will die down. Just like all drama. I know exactly what to say to you, and that is that you should spend more time reading various websites because you'll see this bullshit happen all the time. Drama comes and dies just as fast.
If you're solely talking about the netizen relation to foreigners then.. uh, so who gives a fuck? If there's one prick who ends up hating everything non Korean because of this he can have fun with that, in the end he's just one little prick voicing his opinion online.
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not like this, eSPORTS, not like this!
/sheds an eTEAR
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On July 21 2011 18:44 Switchy wrote:
This thread is starting to get a little ridiculous, we dont know what really happened so its too early to blame people. There are a lot of possible scenario's. Maybe EG did contact TSL and maybe PUMA broke with his team and he is to culprit in this. What i'm trying to say is hold the shitstorm until the actual facts are released then make your conclusions.
So far, it does not seem to be like that... But if EG provides us with a statement were they explain how it went down and it turns out to be the way you said then we can start "bashing" Puma(?) for leaving TSL 
I'm curious if there was any kind of transfer fee for EG to buy-out Puma as eSport is rly growing and in counter-strike they need to pay players who are under contract. Then again, was Puma under a contract with TSL?
I can't see him training with TSL, being their starplayer and not having a contract.
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On July 21 2011 18:45 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:32 KeksX wrote:
Dude how much more naive can you get?
My point is hes a kid.If your a kid you don't look at it long term and say:"Well shit i might as well stay in TSL my skill is improving but i earn JACK SHIT compared to what i could earn if i attend the foreign events.
He had one shot at the NASL, do you think other koreans won't compete in these tournaments? Look at NASL season 2. Full of other koreans. Do you honestly think that PuMa will keep up these "results"? And again.I told you 2 times in this post but your too ignorant to read it and understand it. Hes a 19 year old kid.Hes sight is too short term to see what may or may not happen. From all he knows is he just won 50 k$ and can earn a hell of a lot more.He doesn't need TSL.
I was asking you what YOU think, not what PuMa thinks. I KNOW that he might be "just a kid" here but that doesn't change anything of the results.
@Serpico:
We have a conflict of definitions. By my standards, competing implies winning constantly and not just taking a game off of someone (e.g. winning in Bo7s)
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On July 21 2011 18:47 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:45 Serpico wrote:On July 21 2011 18:45 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:43 vyyye wrote:On July 21 2011 18:41 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:39 Mycl wrote:On July 21 2011 18:37 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:36 koreasilver wrote:On July 21 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:32 Demonace34 wrote:
[quote]
I fixed it for you. Stop acting like this one action has so many ramifications to korean-foreign relations. GO READ PLAYXP. (i'm korean and i'm saying this after perusing playxp along with TL for the past hour or so) Koreans on the internet are sensationalist and overreactive to hell, and they suffer from a collective ADHD and a chronic short-term memory. I wouldn't really take it very seriously. yeah and i'm not gonna take someone who generalize an entire country's people (on the internet) like that and insult them seriously.. You generalized an entire country's people saying our relationship in sc2 will be damaged because a few people on the internet are mad. a few people? playxp = sc2 community in korea. LOADS of negative posts on playxp. koreasilver = one guy on TL. it's fact that the view on foreigners/teams have been impacted negatively already. where the hell did i "generalize?" The hell are you talking about, do people never learn? There is always a local minority, then there is a majority that doesn't give a shit. How on Earth is this going to impact foreigners negatively? Do you think Koreans are thick to the point where they think EG = World (presuming they think this is bad business practice at all). they definitely do think this is bad business practice. it is crystal clear if you read korean websites right now. if you don't think a negative impact on the view of a foreign team does not affect the view on foreign teams in general (although the impact will be smaller compared to the former), i don't know what to say to you Don't act like you can quantify just how many Koreans are angry about this, reading forums hours after it happens isn't the best indicator and far from scientific. no i can't quantify how many koreans are angry about this, and i did not "act" like i could. i'm just stating facts here, i'm not sure where i'm being unclear about it either.. people are acting like how EG went about this will only have positive effects
Of course it's a fact people will be angry, it's also a fact some people are probably really happy for Puma and excited to see him play in more foreign tournaments. It's a two way street.
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On July 21 2011 18:47 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:45 Zarahtra wrote:On July 21 2011 18:40 shell wrote:On July 21 2011 18:26 tripledoubles wrote:
TSL = Cleveland Cavaliers
PuMa = LeBron James the Quitness
EG = Miami Heat That is a stupid analogy! TSL is weak and doesn't have contracts and probably doesn't pay any salary! Why stay there? Because they are cute? Maybe he should have stayed out of loyalty but the guy wants money and a contract! Like everybody, right? This is bussiness.. it's not just a game! I just hope he goes to the EG house in the USA or else his skill will diminish by playing only ladder! EG needs another terran.. if you look at their team they have zergs: idra machine lazygamer strifecro protoss: axlav incontrol terran: demuslim puma now i believe they have a much better team because puma will improve the overall skills of the team!! TvT vs demuslim, TvP and TvZ ! In return he gets money, contract and good practice partners even if a korean team might be more competitive i believe EG bootcamping with these guys is very good also! i think overall it's good for EG, puma and really bad for TSL but it's their fault for not having contracts and salary! Err since when is Lz zerg? Anyway bad thing is, I very much doubt Puma is about to improve a whole lot with those people to practice with. Idra is the only one close to his level. Dunno, seems like a pretty dubious move. Hope this leads to contracts with the players, has been very odd to see players just leave their teams without any real notification. LZ switched to Zerg about a month or so ago.
OT: Really? Holy was just watching his stream from what felt the other day with him pwning shit up with reapers... :/
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On July 21 2011 18:46 Hall0wed wrote:
lol at the first page.
Kinda bm move by EG, dunno how I feel yet.
People have had strong issue with the way EG conducts business for a while. Just ask Tyler, SotG, or anyone in their path. rofl
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EPT
