|
On July 21 2011 18:45 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:40 shell wrote:On July 21 2011 18:26 tripledoubles wrote:
TSL = Cleveland Cavaliers
PuMa = LeBron James the Quitness
EG = Miami Heat That is a stupid analogy! TSL is weak and doesn't have contracts and probably doesn't pay any salary! Why stay there? Because they are cute? Maybe he should have stayed out of loyalty but the guy wants money and a contract! Like everybody, right? This is bussiness.. it's not just a game! I just hope he goes to the EG house in the USA or else his skill will diminish by playing only ladder! EG needs another terran.. if you look at their team they have zergs: idra machine lazygamer strifecro protoss: axlav incontrol terran: demuslim puma now i believe they have a much better team because puma will improve the overall skills of the team!! TvT vs demuslim, TvP and TvZ ! In return he gets money, contract and good practice partners even if a korean team might be more competitive i believe EG bootcamping with these guys is very good also! i think overall it's good for EG, puma and really bad for TSL but it's their fault for not having contracts and salary! Err since when is Lz zerg?  Anyway bad thing is, I very much doubt Puma is about to improve a whole lot with those people to practice with. Idra is the only one close to his level. Dunno, seems like a pretty dubious move. Hope this leads to contracts with the players, has been very odd to see players just leave their teams without any real notification.
Lz switch to zerg about a month ago..
|
On July 21 2011 18:47 vyyye wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:45 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:43 vyyye wrote:On July 21 2011 18:41 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:39 Mycl wrote:On July 21 2011 18:37 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:36 koreasilver wrote:On July 21 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:32 Demonace34 wrote:On July 21 2011 18:30 Namu wrote:
[quote]
c) negative impact on the korean-EG relationship in stacraft2 (which has very evidently already happened, just look at the response in playxp) I fixed it for you. Stop acting like this one action has so many ramifications to korean-foreign relations. GO READ PLAYXP. (i'm korean and i'm saying this after perusing playxp along with TL for the past hour or so) Koreans on the internet are sensationalist and overreactive to hell, and they suffer from a collective ADHD and a chronic short-term memory. I wouldn't really take it very seriously. yeah and i'm not gonna take someone who generalize an entire country's people (on the internet) like that and insult them seriously.. You generalized an entire country's people saying our relationship in sc2 will be damaged because a few people on the internet are mad. a few people? playxp = sc2 community in korea. LOADS of negative posts on playxp. koreasilver = one guy on TL. it's fact that the view on foreigners/teams have been impacted negatively already. where the hell did i "generalize?" The hell are you talking about, do people never learn? There is always a local minority, then there is a majority that doesn't give a shit. How on Earth is this going to impact foreigners negatively? Do you think Koreans are thick to the point where they think EG = World (presuming they think this is bad business practice at all). they definitely do think this is bad business practice. it is crystal clear if you read korean websites right now. if you don't think a negative impact on the view of a foreign team does not affect the view on foreign teams in general (although the impact will be smaller compared to the former), i don't know what to say to you But I don't give a fuck about what people on the internet say, they're irrelevant and it will die down. Just like all drama. I know exactly what to say to you, and that is that you should spend more time reading various websites because you'll see this bullshit happen all the time. Drama comes and dies just as fast. If you're solely talking about the netizen relation to foreigners then.. uh, so who gives a fuck? If there's one prick who ends up hating everything non Korean because of this he can have fun with that, in the end he's just one little prick voicing his opinion online.
so you're whole point is "who gives a fuck?"
well this is pointless then..
|
That's such a revealing statement by the manager. You know how we guys were talking about whether it's good or bad that Koreans fly to Europe/USA to "steal" the price money? The majority was perfectly fine with this and said it would help raising the level of SC2. Now a Korean Team Manager calls signing a korean player who has no contract whatsoever "stealing" and demands measures of prevention. Such a revealing statement.
|
On July 21 2011 18:48 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:47 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:45 Serpico wrote:On July 21 2011 18:45 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:43 vyyye wrote:On July 21 2011 18:41 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:39 Mycl wrote:On July 21 2011 18:37 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:36 koreasilver wrote:On July 21 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:
[quote]
GO READ PLAYXP. (i'm korean and i'm saying this after perusing playxp along with TL for the past hour or so)
Koreans on the internet are sensationalist and overreactive to hell, and they suffer from a collective ADHD and a chronic short-term memory. I wouldn't really take it very seriously. yeah and i'm not gonna take someone who generalize an entire country's people (on the internet) like that and insult them seriously.. You generalized an entire country's people saying our relationship in sc2 will be damaged because a few people on the internet are mad. a few people? playxp = sc2 community in korea. LOADS of negative posts on playxp. koreasilver = one guy on TL. it's fact that the view on foreigners/teams have been impacted negatively already. where the hell did i "generalize?" The hell are you talking about, do people never learn? There is always a local minority, then there is a majority that doesn't give a shit. How on Earth is this going to impact foreigners negatively? Do you think Koreans are thick to the point where they think EG = World (presuming they think this is bad business practice at all). they definitely do think this is bad business practice. it is crystal clear if you read korean websites right now. if you don't think a negative impact on the view of a foreign team does not affect the view on foreign teams in general (although the impact will be smaller compared to the former), i don't know what to say to you Don't act like you can quantify just how many Koreans are angry about this, reading forums hours after it happens isn't the best indicator and far from scientific. no i can't quantify how many koreans are angry about this, and i did not "act" like i could. i'm just stating facts here, i'm not sure where i'm being unclear about it either.. people are acting like how EG went about this will only have positive effects Of course it's a fact people will be angry, it's also a fact some people are probably really happy for Puma and excited to see him play in more foreign tournaments. It's a two way street.
yeah, except i've seen none of the latter anywhere (on korean sites)
|
My initial thought when reading the OP was "damnit, Puma could have been something."
I don't like this move one bit, it would have been better to come to an agreement like SK and oGs did. Poaching is uncool.
|
On July 21 2011 18:48 aderum wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:45 Zarahtra wrote:On July 21 2011 18:40 shell wrote:On July 21 2011 18:26 tripledoubles wrote:
TSL = Cleveland Cavaliers
PuMa = LeBron James the Quitness
EG = Miami Heat That is a stupid analogy! TSL is weak and doesn't have contracts and probably doesn't pay any salary! Why stay there? Because they are cute? Maybe he should have stayed out of loyalty but the guy wants money and a contract! Like everybody, right? This is bussiness.. it's not just a game! I just hope he goes to the EG house in the USA or else his skill will diminish by playing only ladder! EG needs another terran.. if you look at their team they have zergs: idra machine lazygamer strifecro protoss: axlav incontrol terran: demuslim puma now i believe they have a much better team because puma will improve the overall skills of the team!! TvT vs demuslim, TvP and TvZ ! In return he gets money, contract and good practice partners even if a korean team might be more competitive i believe EG bootcamping with these guys is very good also! i think overall it's good for EG, puma and really bad for TSL but it's their fault for not having contracts and salary! Err since when is Lz zerg? Anyway bad thing is, I very much doubt Puma is about to improve a whole lot with those people to practice with. Idra is the only one close to his level. Dunno, seems like a pretty dubious move. Hope this leads to contracts with the players, has been very odd to see players just leave their teams without any real notification. Lz switch to zerg about a month ago..
He has been doing quite well with Zerg.
|
On July 21 2011 18:48 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:47 vyyye wrote:On July 21 2011 18:45 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:43 vyyye wrote:On July 21 2011 18:41 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:39 Mycl wrote:On July 21 2011 18:37 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:36 koreasilver wrote:On July 21 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:32 Demonace34 wrote:
[quote]
I fixed it for you. Stop acting like this one action has so many ramifications to korean-foreign relations. GO READ PLAYXP. (i'm korean and i'm saying this after perusing playxp along with TL for the past hour or so) Koreans on the internet are sensationalist and overreactive to hell, and they suffer from a collective ADHD and a chronic short-term memory. I wouldn't really take it very seriously. yeah and i'm not gonna take someone who generalize an entire country's people (on the internet) like that and insult them seriously.. You generalized an entire country's people saying our relationship in sc2 will be damaged because a few people on the internet are mad. a few people? playxp = sc2 community in korea. LOADS of negative posts on playxp. koreasilver = one guy on TL. it's fact that the view on foreigners/teams have been impacted negatively already. where the hell did i "generalize?" The hell are you talking about, do people never learn? There is always a local minority, then there is a majority that doesn't give a shit. How on Earth is this going to impact foreigners negatively? Do you think Koreans are thick to the point where they think EG = World (presuming they think this is bad business practice at all). they definitely do think this is bad business practice. it is crystal clear if you read korean websites right now. if you don't think a negative impact on the view of a foreign team does not affect the view on foreign teams in general (although the impact will be smaller compared to the former), i don't know what to say to you But I don't give a fuck about what people on the internet say, they're irrelevant and it will die down. Just like all drama. I know exactly what to say to you, and that is that you should spend more time reading various websites because you'll see this bullshit happen all the time. Drama comes and dies just as fast. If you're solely talking about the netizen relation to foreigners then.. uh, so who gives a fuck? If there's one prick who ends up hating everything non Korean because of this he can have fun with that, in the end he's just one little prick voicing his opinion online. so you're whole point is "who gives a fuck?" well this is pointless then..
No, you got it all wrong. My point is that your initial point was pure bullshit from an ignorant perspective.
|
On July 21 2011 18:47 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:45 Serpico wrote:On July 21 2011 18:45 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:43 vyyye wrote:On July 21 2011 18:41 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:39 Mycl wrote:On July 21 2011 18:37 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:36 koreasilver wrote:On July 21 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:32 Demonace34 wrote:
[quote]
I fixed it for you. Stop acting like this one action has so many ramifications to korean-foreign relations. GO READ PLAYXP. (i'm korean and i'm saying this after perusing playxp along with TL for the past hour or so) Koreans on the internet are sensationalist and overreactive to hell, and they suffer from a collective ADHD and a chronic short-term memory. I wouldn't really take it very seriously. yeah and i'm not gonna take someone who generalize an entire country's people (on the internet) like that and insult them seriously.. You generalized an entire country's people saying our relationship in sc2 will be damaged because a few people on the internet are mad. a few people? playxp = sc2 community in korea. LOADS of negative posts on playxp. koreasilver = one guy on TL. it's fact that the view on foreigners/teams have been impacted negatively already. where the hell did i "generalize?" The hell are you talking about, do people never learn? There is always a local minority, then there is a majority that doesn't give a shit. How on Earth is this going to impact foreigners negatively? Do you think Koreans are thick to the point where they think EG = World (presuming they think this is bad business practice at all). they definitely do think this is bad business practice. it is crystal clear if you read korean websites right now. if you don't think a negative impact on the view of a foreign team does not affect the view on foreign teams in general (although the impact will be smaller compared to the former), i don't know what to say to you Don't act like you can quantify just how many Koreans are angry about this, reading forums hours after it happens isn't the best indicator and far from scientific. no i can't quantify how many koreans are angry about this, and i did not "act" like i could. i'm just stating facts here, i'm not sure where i'm being unclear about it either.. people are acting like how EG went about this will only have positive effects
lol, opposed to how many people in this thread think that this all happened in a distasteful way?
|
How can TSL talk about respect, when they have a great player working his tail off and can't get a good contract with HIS needs and wants. Many of the posters here seem to overlook the fact that contracts are not just for the safety of the teams/organisations(so things such as actual poaching wont happen) but also for the players. Contracts help protect the players as well with stability, proper pay with players locked in with the numbers and a near myriad number of bonus\player clauses\no trade clause/healthcare etc etc.
To me it seems like EG is showing some of the utmost respect to PuMa,(Giving puma a legitimate contract) ((granted not to TSL)), but TSL and perhaps the Korean SC2 scene in general has not shown this to their players. Players who in many people's eyes work the hardest and deserve the most.
|
Really interesting
PuMa should do doubt be allowed to leave if he wants to, but from what I read in OP, EG didn't consult the team coach over this. I think they should have
Anyway, gl hf PuMa, congrats EG
|
On July 21 2011 18:46 bkrow wrote:
Seems like a pretty strange way to approach a player and i imagine it conflicts with some cultural nuances surrounding the issues of respect but at the end of the day it seems that the TSL coach was eventually able to deal with the move.
EGs vT matchups are going to be insane after this; it sort of makes PuMa a sell out as to become a better game you must train with the best and the best is most certainly in Korea. Overall, great for foreigners though so i am happy.
Maybe it will make the player market more competitive which is also exciting; ahh so much to think about :p
Idk if it's great for foreigners... The relasionship between Korea and the foreign Sc2 scene will not get better from this. So far it looks like EG stole the talented TSL player PUMA without talking to the team and only approaching Puma. If this is the case then we might have some future conflicts between foreign and korean teams :/
|
On July 21 2011 18:48 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:47 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 21 2011 18:45 Zarahtra wrote:On July 21 2011 18:40 shell wrote:On July 21 2011 18:26 tripledoubles wrote:
TSL = Cleveland Cavaliers
PuMa = LeBron James the Quitness
EG = Miami Heat That is a stupid analogy! TSL is weak and doesn't have contracts and probably doesn't pay any salary! Why stay there? Because they are cute? Maybe he should have stayed out of loyalty but the guy wants money and a contract! Like everybody, right? This is bussiness.. it's not just a game! I just hope he goes to the EG house in the USA or else his skill will diminish by playing only ladder! EG needs another terran.. if you look at their team they have zergs: idra machine lazygamer strifecro protoss: axlav incontrol terran: demuslim puma now i believe they have a much better team because puma will improve the overall skills of the team!! TvT vs demuslim, TvP and TvZ ! In return he gets money, contract and good practice partners even if a korean team might be more competitive i believe EG bootcamping with these guys is very good also! i think overall it's good for EG, puma and really bad for TSL but it's their fault for not having contracts and salary! Err since when is Lz zerg? Anyway bad thing is, I very much doubt Puma is about to improve a whole lot with those people to practice with. Idra is the only one close to his level. Dunno, seems like a pretty dubious move. Hope this leads to contracts with the players, has been very odd to see players just leave their teams without any real notification. LZ switched to Zerg about a month or so ago. OT: Really? Holy was just watching his stream from what felt the other day with him pwning shit up with reapers... :/
Yep. I remember him talking about switching to zerg a little while ago and then he did.
I'm rather eager to hear EG's side of this because I really don't think its as bad as it seems.
|
On July 21 2011 18:49 vyyye wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:48 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:47 vyyye wrote:On July 21 2011 18:45 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:43 vyyye wrote:On July 21 2011 18:41 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:39 Mycl wrote:On July 21 2011 18:37 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:36 koreasilver wrote:On July 21 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:
[quote]
GO READ PLAYXP. (i'm korean and i'm saying this after perusing playxp along with TL for the past hour or so)
Koreans on the internet are sensationalist and overreactive to hell, and they suffer from a collective ADHD and a chronic short-term memory. I wouldn't really take it very seriously. yeah and i'm not gonna take someone who generalize an entire country's people (on the internet) like that and insult them seriously.. You generalized an entire country's people saying our relationship in sc2 will be damaged because a few people on the internet are mad. a few people? playxp = sc2 community in korea. LOADS of negative posts on playxp. koreasilver = one guy on TL. it's fact that the view on foreigners/teams have been impacted negatively already. where the hell did i "generalize?" The hell are you talking about, do people never learn? There is always a local minority, then there is a majority that doesn't give a shit. How on Earth is this going to impact foreigners negatively? Do you think Koreans are thick to the point where they think EG = World (presuming they think this is bad business practice at all). they definitely do think this is bad business practice. it is crystal clear if you read korean websites right now. if you don't think a negative impact on the view of a foreign team does not affect the view on foreign teams in general (although the impact will be smaller compared to the former), i don't know what to say to you But I don't give a fuck about what people on the internet say, they're irrelevant and it will die down. Just like all drama. I know exactly what to say to you, and that is that you should spend more time reading various websites because you'll see this bullshit happen all the time. Drama comes and dies just as fast. If you're solely talking about the netizen relation to foreigners then.. uh, so who gives a fuck? If there's one prick who ends up hating everything non Korean because of this he can have fun with that, in the end he's just one little prick voicing his opinion online. so you're whole point is "who gives a fuck?" well this is pointless then.. No, you got it all wrong. My point is that your initial point as pure bullshit from an ignorant perspective.
pure bullshit? so i'm saying that it will have a negative impact because people are negatively talking about foreign teams already, and EG more specifically. then you dismiss me because you don't give a fuck about what people say on the internet. what, am I supposed to bring you a printed newspaper with an article about it? guess what, starcraft 2 and e-sports in general is quite closely related to the "internet," and a lot of the things said on the internet actually do relate heavily to what people actually perceive of something relating to starcraft 2.
|
EG Just need a top tier protoss now. They should strike while the iron is hot and poach SangHo.
|
I don't understand how EG always seems to wind up in these kinds of situations... They ALWAYS come out as total douches as an organisation and for some of the players this holds true as well.
Personally I think this LOOKS (we don't have both sides yet) like a dick move and will lead to two things: 1.) Reluctancy to send players abroad and 2.) More KeSPa-like rules for SC2.
And anyone that claims that "nothing" in the relations between the korean and foreign scene will change has to have a few too many/few chromosomes sadly.
|
On July 21 2011 18:46 bkrow wrote:
Seems like a pretty strange way to approach a player and i imagine it conflicts with some cultural nuances surrounding the issues of respect but at the end of the day it seems that the TSL coach was eventually able to deal with the move.
EGs vT matchups are going to be insane after this; it sort of makes PuMa a sell out as to become a better game you must train with the best and the best is most certainly in Korea. Overall, great for foreigners though so i am happy.
Maybe it will make the player market more competitive which is also exciting; ahh so much to think about :p
And whats the point of being a supporter of a team, if all they are doing is buying whoever is a great name atm. The cool teams should go scouting for unseen talent and provide the environment for him to become an enduring star representing the team.
|
EG definitely have some diplomatic issues. Who is their negotiation guy?
|
On July 21 2011 18:52 tiaz wrote:
I don't understand how EG always seems to wind up in these kinds of situations... They ALWAYS come out as total douches as an organisation and for some of the players this holds true as well.
Personally I think this LOOKS (we don't have both sides yet) like a dick move and will lead to two things: 1.) Reluctancy to send players abroad and 2.) More KeSPa-like rules for SC2.
And anyone that claims that "nothing" in the relations between the korean and foreign scene will change has to have a few too many/few chromosomes sadly.
because the other side always comes out with an attack at EG before EG says anything
|
On July 21 2011 18:50 Seki Santoku wrote:
How can TSL talk about respect, when they have a great player working his tail off and can't get a good contract with HIS needs and wants. Many of the posters here seem to overlook the fact that contracts are not just for the safety of the teams/organisations(so things such as actual poaching wont happen) but also for the players. Contracts help protect the players as well with stability, proper paid with the player's locked in with the numbers and a near myriad number of bonus\player clauses\no trade clause/healthcare etc etc.
To me it seems like EG is showing some of the utmost respect to PuMa,(Giving puma a legitimate contract) ((granted not to TSL)), but TSL and perhaps the Korean SC2 scene in general has not shown this to their players. Players who in many people's eyes work the hardest and deserve the most.
TSL is the epitomy of respect. They cater to their players more than any other team in Korea.
Their players originally wanted a more relaxed team house: TSL is one of the most relaxed team houses.
Coach Lee goes and gets sponsors: Becomes the first team to pay salaries to their top players and then eventually ALL players received salary which includes PuMa.
I'm pretty sure that, even though playxp says "everyone is a free agent", there was some existing agreement between PuMa and TSL. you can't be "released" from nothing right? and to get paid, there has to be more than a "you live here you get paid" thing.
|
Isn't it how some players are drafted in football ? Agent is contacted, offer are made, then player tells his team he's got an offer and wants to go.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
