|
On July 18 2011 10:04 lunchforthesky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 09:53 Tarot wrote:On July 18 2011 09:43 lunchforthesky wrote:
People forget that a large number of SC2 pro's quit Brood War when they were 16-18 years old. Very few BW pro's were great at that age. The youngest age of TV win -  BaBy (13 years, 2 months and 17 days) The oldest age of TV win - BoxeR (29 years, 5 months and 1 day) The youngest OSL champion - Flash (15 years, 8 months and 10 days, Bacchus OSL 2008) The youngest MSL champion - Mind (16 years, 1 month and 14 days, GomTV 3 MSL 2007) The youngest player to win OSL silver - Fantasy (17 years and 4 months, Incruit OSL 2008) The youngest player to win MSL silver -  Kal (17 years, 4 months and 19 days, GomTV4 MSL 2008) The youngest player to achieve the Golden Mouse - Flash (18 years, 2 months and 6 days, Korean Air Season 2 OSL 2010) The youngest player to achieve the Golden Badge - NaDa (18 years, 1 month and 29 days, Baskin Robbins KPGA 4th Tour 2003) ^from http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=169019Lots of progamers have done extremely well and some even won MSL/OSL by the age of 16. Besides, the well known BW transfers like MC, Nestea, MVP are all fairly old. If you look at the ages of top players in SC:BW TLPD, they're all around MC's and MVP's age (if not younger). So basically you post all the exceptions? Normal A-Teamers generally get to the point where they might win a Star League between 18 and 21. Which is the age at which guys like MC and MVP switched to Sc2.
So infact,
People forget that a large number of SC2 pro's quit Brood War when they were 19-25 years old. Most BW greats were already successful at that age.
+ Show Spoiler +The BW->SC2 are actually surprisingly old (to me at least). I think the youngest one is Losira who is 19.
|
 MVP as high level BW pro. I always love looking and oggling at people who are so obstinate to believe that Professional Brood War players are NOT the best RTS players in the world. That's some serious denail, and while they're not identical games, the mechanics, the decision making, the analysis, the deception and most importantly the mindset and the mind-games are perfectly translatable skills between SC1 and 2. We don't have good examples (yet) of how well a BW progamer who's actually 'good' by current standards (ok let's say recent individual leagues ro16 level) would do in SC2, but there's and undeniable correlation between being on a professional gaming team as a BW pro, and playing SC2 very well:
Look at ALL the past GSL winners, and the most succesful SC2 players today (sorry guys foreigners don't quite compare yet), and it's damm hard to find any WITHOUT a pro BW background.
I have NO doubt that ForGG would do phenomenally in SC2 if he decided to dedicate himself to becoming a professional in that game, and I'd love to see him join Slayers if anything as that is the team most appealing to ex-BW progamers at the moment (sup Boxer, Yellow etc.). I do hope however that this doesn't start some sort of exodus from the current BW teams (who are loosing fanbase, blood and sponsorship daily), but I doubt that'll happen.
|
i don't see the purpose in discussing his star 2 merits if in fact this is forgg. He's high rank grandmaster on korea server above many other pro players. I think outside of tournament he's ended this stupid debate if he's good or not. If he goes pro is tbd.
|
IMRaptor or ST_Raptor.. fits perfect.
|
IM is the only team not stacked with good/amazing terran players. good fit for him imo
|
On July 18 2011 10:51 stangstang wrote:
IM is the only team not stacked with good/amazing terran players. good fit for him imo
Plenty of teams not stacked. ST only has Bomber (Virus is on the level of Happy/Yoda). TSL only has Puma (Clide is consistently mediocre)...and hell, as much as I'm a fan of Puma, I'd still pause a bit and wait for some actual GSL results before calling him one of the best Terrans in Korea. Zenex only has Byun (Hack has been winning some online tournaments + GSTL, but no GSL results = he can't count). HoSeo...who the fuck is even a good T on that team? MVP...Keen and Noblesse? LOL
I could go down the list, but the only teams that have a strong stable of Terrans are Slayers and oGs.
Of course, I think given his connections with IM, there's a large possibility there. Plus, it'll give MVP a nice fire under his ass to improve even further.
On a sidenote: MVP is still considered one of the best, if not the best, in Korea. Who did sC pick as the two scariest players he'd like to get out of the way in the July Code S group stages? Oh, that's right, MVP and MKP. That says it all right there, and plenty of the Prime guys (who communicate with the Chinese WE team) say the same.
|
What if its a big troll and he really isnt who he says he was?
|
Either way it must be ForGG.
If it is, then it is.
If it isn't, then he's the PRETENDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER and thus in fact must be ForGG anyways.
|
Ah, the pretender returns to progaming.
I'll miss his BW timing attacks, have to learn his SC2 timing attacks instead!
What if I said you're not like the others?
|
On July 18 2011 11:15 King K. Rool wrote:
Either way it must be ForGG.
If it is, then it is.
If it isn't, then he's the PRETENDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER and thus in fact must be ForGG anyways.
no one can argue with this logic
|
On July 18 2011 11:15 King K. Rool wrote:
Either way it must be ForGG.
If it is, then it is.
If it isn't, then he's the PRETENDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER and thus in fact must be ForGG anyways.
That. Was awesome.
I'm so pumped if this is actually fOrGG (lrn2caps noobs, god... ).
If anyone here hasn't seen his Arena MSL run... Go. Watch. The. VODs. Now.
His Ro8 Bo5 against Kal wasn't the best play, but damn it was one of the most exciting matches I ever watched live.
His Semi-final match against Flash was somewhat disappointing on Flash's end, but still was an awesome series to watch.
And then he absolutely rolled Jaedong in the finals. The maps were shit, but still - first player to beat Jaedong in an actual SL Bo5 (only Bo5 Jaedong had previously lost was vs. Rock in an OSC).
E: Just hope that he doesn't win a team-kill final again, and mysteriously break his arm...
|
On July 17 2011 16:23 Trololol wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2011 16:18 NoobSkills wrote:On July 17 2011 16:11 Pufftrees wrote:On July 17 2011 16:07 NoobSkills wrote:On July 17 2011 15:12 laLAlA[uC] wrote:On July 17 2011 15:08 rysecake wrote:On July 17 2011 15:01 laLAlA[uC] wrote:
How long until he becomes the best player in SC2? Assuming he takes it extremely seriously, no more than 2 months. Calling it. I'd say less. but there are some kids that are practicing now for SC2 that have the mind of flash, or the micro of jaedong Uh, no there isn't? The true pros who fit those qualities are playing Brood War. Maybe eventually though if Korea really switches over. Watch more GSTL. Then remember that flash and jd while both excellent players built their strategy off of other's work. These kids have to invent everything themselves while improving their mechanics/micro. Flash's double armory build disagrees with you.
Quote From Me
"built their strategy off of other's work"
Meaning that they surely advanced their strategies. They surely improved mechanics and timings and unit use. But they were able to add this because of information they gained by watching previous SCBW players. Back in the day one did not expand until your main was empty. After they decided that a 2 base play was good people then made two bases, but did not transfer workers. And so on and so forth. Everything evolved from another person's play. In SC2 there were no standard builds when these kids came to the pros, even though some information from SCBW sticks it's metagame is not nearly as well defined as SCBW.
|
On July 18 2011 22:44 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2011 16:23 Trololol wrote:On July 17 2011 16:18 NoobSkills wrote:On July 17 2011 16:11 Pufftrees wrote:On July 17 2011 16:07 NoobSkills wrote:On July 17 2011 15:12 laLAlA[uC] wrote:On July 17 2011 15:08 rysecake wrote:On July 17 2011 15:01 laLAlA[uC] wrote:
How long until he becomes the best player in SC2? Assuming he takes it extremely seriously, no more than 2 months. Calling it. I'd say less. but there are some kids that are practicing now for SC2 that have the mind of flash, or the micro of jaedong Uh, no there isn't? The true pros who fit those qualities are playing Brood War. Maybe eventually though if Korea really switches over. Watch more GSTL. Then remember that flash and jd while both excellent players built their strategy off of other's work. These kids have to invent everything themselves while improving their mechanics/micro. Flash's double armory build disagrees with you. Quote From Me "built their strategy off of other's work" Meaning that they surely advanced their strategies. They surely improved mechanics and timings and unit use. But they were able to add this because of information they gained by watching previous SCBW players. Back in the day one did not expand until your main was empty. After they decided that a 2 base play was good people then made two bases, but did not transfer workers. And so on and so forth. Everything evolved from another person's play. In SC2 there were no standard builds when these kids came to the pros, even though some information from SCBW sticks it's metagame is not nearly as well defined as SCBW.
Uhhh...
These kids knew to fast expand, and beta was there to figure out the most efficient timings for that. SC2 built off of the strong cores from BW and all that was needed to be determined was timings. If you think SC2 is back where BW was in say, 2001, in terms of metagame development - you're dead wrong.
|
On July 18 2011 23:26 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 22:44 NoobSkills wrote:On July 17 2011 16:23 Trololol wrote:On July 17 2011 16:18 NoobSkills wrote:On July 17 2011 16:11 Pufftrees wrote:On July 17 2011 16:07 NoobSkills wrote:On July 17 2011 15:12 laLAlA[uC] wrote:On July 17 2011 15:08 rysecake wrote:On July 17 2011 15:01 laLAlA[uC] wrote:
How long until he becomes the best player in SC2? Assuming he takes it extremely seriously, no more than 2 months. Calling it. I'd say less. but there are some kids that are practicing now for SC2 that have the mind of flash, or the micro of jaedong Uh, no there isn't? The true pros who fit those qualities are playing Brood War. Maybe eventually though if Korea really switches over. Watch more GSTL. Then remember that flash and jd while both excellent players built their strategy off of other's work. These kids have to invent everything themselves while improving their mechanics/micro. Flash's double armory build disagrees with you. Quote From Me "built their strategy off of other's work" Meaning that they surely advanced their strategies. They surely improved mechanics and timings and unit use. But they were able to add this because of information they gained by watching previous SCBW players. Back in the day one did not expand until your main was empty. After they decided that a 2 base play was good people then made two bases, but did not transfer workers. And so on and so forth. Everything evolved from another person's play. In SC2 there were no standard builds when these kids came to the pros, even though some information from SCBW sticks it's metagame is not nearly as well defined as SCBW. Uhhh... These kids knew to fast expand, and beta was there to figure out the most efficient timings for that. SC2 built off of the strong cores from BW and all that was needed to be determined was timings. If you think SC2 is back where BW was in say, 2001, in terms of metagame development - you're dead wrong.
I have to agree. The game is progressing (and even started) at a pace miles ahead at the start of BW. Plus it's VERY difficult to find a truly 'New' strategy not based on anything else. Take Saviors 3 hatch muta for example. It was very unlike anything else at the time. But the even simple tweaks in BOs can make huge differences. Example being Flash's double armoury build. FE into mech vs P. Not too revolutionary right? Upgrades. Everyone gets upgrades. But the ability to hold on with very few units while upgrading very fast obviously made Flash's build MUCH better vs the then popular carrier builds compared to normal FD/Seige expo builds that were going on.
|
I remember ForGG when he beat Flash and Jaedong consecutively to win his MSL. It was epic too because he and JD were teammates back then. He 3-0'd Jaedong who was unbeatable at the time. He did the marine split way before MKP when he used bio against a Protoss. He would surely destroy everyone without trying if he ever decides to compete professionally
|
|
|
I'm excited about this guy too even though I don't follow BW =P
|
On July 18 2011 11:15 King K. Rool wrote:
Either way it must be ForGG.
If it is, then it is.
If it isn't, then he's the PRETENDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER and thus in fact must be ForGG anyways.
Damn it, no arguing with this at all. Paradox.
|
NAHHHH! It's Neverrrrrrr :D
|
Sweden33719 Posts
People who think you can just switch in and instantly be top tier are as stupid as people who think they wouldnt be top tier if they tried.
MVP switched and it took him 3 GSLs before he made any kind of impact, his TvT and TvZ quickly became good (tho he was still knocked out by Zenio in his first GSL) because they are pretty similiar to SC1, but his TvP was - and to an extent still is - nowhere near that level.
And this was when SC2 was WAY easier. I think anyone denying the fact that a top SC1 progamer switching would be a serious contender for the top tier of SC2 is crazy, but it will take some itme and work.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
