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fOrGG playing starcraft 2 - Page 15

Forum Index > SC2 General
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JL_GG
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada249 Posts
July 17 2011 16:45 GMT
#281
holy crap this is awesome if it is true
MindRush
Profile Joined April 2010
Romania916 Posts
July 17 2011 16:47 GMT
#282
WOW, my favourite SC:BW sniper is back with vengeance in SC2. Time atacker, please work your magic!
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
.Enigma.
Profile Joined January 2011
Sweden1461 Posts
July 17 2011 16:49 GMT
#283
Oh wow, this would be sick if it were true.
"Jupiters c*ck!" - Quintus Lentulus Batiatus
DoomsVille
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada4885 Posts
July 17 2011 16:51 GMT
#284
I can't believe people are still arguing that there is no relationship between BW success and SC2 success. It is pretty clear that many of the skills do transfer over and pretty much every mid-high level BW pro that switched over has found success in SC2.

It's pretty clear that if a player of forgg's skill transferred to SC2 he would be very strong. Probably not bonjwa status, but he would certainly be one of the best SC2 players. Hell, just look at his ladder ranking. Now imagine how good he would be if he had a team to practice with and took this game 100% seriously.
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
July 17 2011 16:51 GMT
#285
Sorry to burst your bubble; but unlike the other pros who transferred over (sangho, mvp were the ones who were descent at best (i mean, mvp's alltime height in BW was knocking out baby and taking 1 game off flash, while I never really were around to follow Sangho's height so can't talk about that).

But, before his slump-into-retirement Park Ji-Soo were in dual ro8 in starleagues only to get knocked out by Kal (2nd or 3rd best toss last season) 2-1 in a very close series and getting demolished 3-0 by his teammate Flash (who won both of the leagues, mind you).

I think that fOrGG's retirement was simply due to his own frustration of not acheving anything and not performing as he would like to, so he probally won't have his mechanics (but then again, sc2 is less APM intensive). It's weird, because while he was known to make wacky and crazy timing attacks he actually had really damn good macro though his decision making was questionable at times.
I doubt he is gonna perform to his "A-class bw potential" though it would make me happy seeing one of my favorite T's perform well :>
In the woods, there lurks..
TeWy
Profile Joined December 2009
France714 Posts
July 17 2011 16:56 GMT
#286
On July 18 2011 01:51 DoomsVille wrote:
I can't believe people are still arguing that there is no relationship between BW success and SC2 success. It is pretty clear that many of the skills do transfer over and pretty much every mid-high level BW pro that switched over has found success in SC2.

It's pretty clear that if a player of forgg's skill transferred to SC2 he would be very strong. Probably not bonjwa status, but he would certainly be one of the best SC2 players. Hell, just look at his ladder ranking. Now imagine how good he would be if he had a team to practice with and took this game 100% seriously.


Nobody's denying that there's a correlation between BW success and Starcraft 2 success, but it's not a strict and exact causation.

In South Korea most of the gamers have a BW background so that's pretty logical that most of the players doing well for now have a BW background.
In China it's the same thing with War3.
And in Europe it's 50/50.

The best BW/War3 players are not the best SC2 players, they're not even the most likely to succeed.
They are a lot of BW/War3 semi pro who are younger and pretty much as talented (such as thorzain, Naniwa, MC etc...).
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
July 17 2011 16:57 GMT
#287
On July 18 2011 00:49 setzer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2011 16:48 aksfjh wrote:
On July 17 2011 16:33 Flowjo wrote:
On July 17 2011 16:27 aksfjh wrote:
On July 16 2011 12:10 rysecake wrote:
On July 16 2011 12:00 KimJongChill wrote:
On July 16 2011 11:47 seupac wrote:
On July 16 2011 10:04 pdd wrote:

Ah, I thought what you meant was the very top tier of players, which MVP and SangHo are not.

But nevertheless, they're different games, it's too early to make a judgment on where he'll be if he turns pro.


you are really writing MVP off after a slump this recent? hes the most dominant terran we have seen in sc2 thus far how can you consider him not even a PART of the "very top teir". maybe in his current slump he is no longer the best terran in the world but he is without a doubt one of them.


he's been slumping for quite a bit. Plus, not many people count the WC win as seriously as a regular GSL season. Imo, MVP probably like Nada; definitely good, but just under the top tier.


That's laughable.. any korean will tell you mvp is top tier.


Then "any Korean" would be wrong. There's a very interesting problem with SC2 right now in that it's lacking a great deal of consistency. Every 2-3 weeks, we have a new "top of the race," while one of the old leaders goes into some slump. Look at the runs of players like FruitDealer, MMA, MVP, and SC. All very impressive, but then get demolished by relative no-names causing a devastating fall. In fact, the major consistency we have is that some players who seem to be in perpetual slumps (zenio, fruitdealer, tester, etc.) can't seem to find the exit door from Code S.

Honestly, right now, "top tier" is such a loose term that it doesn't even really hold significant weight. The only players we can even say with certainty are "top tier" players would be Nestea and MC simply because they have won 2 titles each and continue to be relevant in meta-game modifications. Beyond those two players, however, the population is in such wild flux that ranking becomes so subjective that it's meaningless. You get this HUGE grey area that goes from Code S all the way down to Qualifiers, where people argue daily that some people who can't qualify for Code A could also take a Code S championship (and it's probably true).

Would forgg dominate the scene? I have no idea. However, we can at least assume that he would find mild success in it if he were to switch over, just like most other players with impressive RTS backgrounds.



so you don't follow broodwar basically

So, basically, you don't follow SC2. Show me some solid correlation between BW success and SC2 success and you can act like an elitist asshole all you want. Until sangho starts tearing up the scene, any speculation of the sort is wild nostalgia.


What do you consider success? Winning a GSL? Being in Code S? Every GSL winner (code a and s) besides Polt has a background in BW and almost every player in the GSL has a background in BW. If you can't see the correlation between BW and SC2 you aren't looking hard enough.


The only correlation is that it seems to give the player a headstart. Nothing more. People used to laugh at Nestea because he had a terrible BW showing, commenting that his fame would soon fade when more decorated players would join the fray. When those players have come, however, they're the ones who flicker instead of shine.

You'd think that this coveted BW experience would give them some huge advantage over the competition, so the top 8 would always showcase the best that came from BW. This isn't the case. They don't show consistent results when the cards are down. You don't see trends where the only people to take out MVP, MC, Nestea, etc. are each other. Instead the competition is so cutthroat that these players only enjoy a marginally better chance at a run for the championship one season at a time.

I'm asking for evidence that BW results, and not simply pro experience, somehow translates into definitive domination of SC2. Until then, I retain my position that all we could expect from forgg in SC2 is that he would be seen in the GSL.
Tarot
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada440 Posts
July 17 2011 17:20 GMT
#288
On July 18 2011 01:56 TeWy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2011 01:51 DoomsVille wrote:
I can't believe people are still arguing that there is no relationship between BW success and SC2 success. It is pretty clear that many of the skills do transfer over and pretty much every mid-high level BW pro that switched over has found success in SC2.

It's pretty clear that if a player of forgg's skill transferred to SC2 he would be very strong. Probably not bonjwa status, but he would certainly be one of the best SC2 players. Hell, just look at his ladder ranking. Now imagine how good he would be if he had a team to practice with and took this game 100% seriously.


Nobody's denying that there's a correlation between BW success and Starcraft 2 success, but it's not a strict and exact causation.

In South Korea most of the gamers have a BW background so that's pretty logical that most of the players doing well for now have a BW background.
In China it's the same thing with War3.
And in Europe it's 50/50.

The best BW/War3 players are not the best SC2 players, they're not even the most likely to succeed.
They are a lot of BW/War3 semi pro who are younger and pretty much as talented (such as thorzain, Naniwa, MC etc...).


Not causation, but rather common cause.
The best players at SC2 are going to be the most talented and disciplined players with the necessary infrastructure (Korea). And the best players at SC:BW are going to be the same. Those who were talented and hard-working enough to have survived and succeeded in the BW Kespa system will have absolutely no trouble in SC2.

Also, on the topic of MC being too young in BW but 'just as talented'.
+ Show Spoiler +
Baby won his first televised game at 13 and is currently 14th ELO at the age of 16. I don't know how long we were supposed to wait before IrOn showed his stuff...
rysecake
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2632 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-17 18:15:22
July 17 2011 18:15 GMT
#289
On July 18 2011 01:45 TeWy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2011 01:36 rysecake wrote:
On July 17 2011 16:48 aksfjh wrote:
On July 17 2011 16:33 Flowjo wrote:
On July 17 2011 16:27 aksfjh wrote:
On July 16 2011 12:10 rysecake wrote:
On July 16 2011 12:00 KimJongChill wrote:
On July 16 2011 11:47 seupac wrote:
On July 16 2011 10:04 pdd wrote:

Ah, I thought what you meant was the very top tier of players, which MVP and SangHo are not.

But nevertheless, they're different games, it's too early to make a judgment on where he'll be if he turns pro.


you are really writing MVP off after a slump this recent? hes the most dominant terran we have seen in sc2 thus far how can you consider him not even a PART of the "very top teir". maybe in his current slump he is no longer the best terran in the world but he is without a doubt one of them.


he's been slumping for quite a bit. Plus, not many people count the WC win as seriously as a regular GSL season. Imo, MVP probably like Nada; definitely good, but just under the top tier.


That's laughable.. any korean will tell you mvp is top tier.


Then "any Korean" would be wrong. There's a very interesting problem with SC2 right now in that it's lacking a great deal of consistency. Every 2-3 weeks, we have a new "top of the race," while one of the old leaders goes into some slump. Look at the runs of players like FruitDealer, MMA, MVP, and SC. All very impressive, but then get demolished by relative no-names causing a devastating fall. In fact, the major consistency we have is that some players who seem to be in perpetual slumps (zenio, fruitdealer, tester, etc.) can't seem to find the exit door from Code S.

Honestly, right now, "top tier" is such a loose term that it doesn't even really hold significant weight. The only players we can even say with certainty are "top tier" players would be Nestea and MC simply because they have won 2 titles each and continue to be relevant in meta-game modifications. Beyond those two players, however, the population is in such wild flux that ranking becomes so subjective that it's meaningless. You get this HUGE grey area that goes from Code S all the way down to Qualifiers, where people argue daily that some people who can't qualify for Code A could also take a Code S championship (and it's probably true).

Would forgg dominate the scene? I have no idea. However, we can at least assume that he would find mild success in it if he were to switch over, just like most other players with impressive RTS backgrounds.



so you don't follow broodwar basically

So, basically, you don't follow SC2. Show me some solid correlation between BW success and SC2 success and you can act like an elitist asshole all you want. Until sangho starts tearing up the scene, any speculation of the sort is wild nostalgia.


You don't see a correlation between bw and sc2? Do you see wc3 players winning gsl's? (well i guess polt) You may get off the stage now.


Totally biased pool of players in South Korea.
There is like 1 good Warcraft 3 player for 50 good BW players, it's quite logical that BW players are going to dominate.

That's like wondering why every single top Starcraft 2 players in China has a Warcraft 3 background.

You can see in Europe where there's a lot of players with both a starcraft and a warcraft 3 background that they are dominating the scene quite equally, Warcraft 3 having a slight lead (judging at the ratio who qualified for TSL).


Here's an interesting point to make though : I don't care about the euro or american scene?

The best of the best are the bw players of korea. Whether or not wc3, or halo players dominate the euro and na scene doesn't matter to me because they get owned by the koreans anyway.
The Notorious Winkles
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
July 17 2011 18:20 GMT
#290
On July 18 2011 01:56 TeWy wrote:
The best BW/War3 players are not the best SC2 players, they're not even the most likely to succeed.
They are a lot of BW/War3 semi pro who are younger and pretty much as talented (such as thorzain, Naniwa, MC etc...).


But that also depends on motivation and practice.

FruitDealer and Tester are probably the most talented players still (even though they're not the most successful to switch), but it matters fuck all if you're going to just make a half-assed effort at it. Even mvp said his practice regime is pretty relaxed compared to BW.

Practice is everything obviously, but given the same amount of practice and commitment, I'm still leaning towards the better BW players being better in SC2 as well.

BBV
Profile Joined January 2010
213 Posts
July 17 2011 18:22 GMT
#291
forgg will win everything in 2012
HaXXspetten
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Sweden15718 Posts
July 17 2011 18:23 GMT
#292
Wow, really? sweet
Hope he takes up sc2, if MC and MVP could have so little success in BW yet so much in SC2, then why shouldn't more successful BW players be even more gosu at SC2?
Ikonn
Profile Joined October 2009
Netherlands1958 Posts
July 17 2011 18:23 GMT
#293
On July 16 2011 01:18 Tabbris wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2011 01:13 asdfTT123 wrote:
O_O

Wow.

If fOrGG transitions, I think he will be arguably the best and most accomplished ex-broodwar player in SC2. To give some background to those not familiar in the BW scene, fOrGG won an MSL against Jaedong 3-0, considered to be the best zerg brood-war player bar-non (though on some pretty bullshit maps). Otherwise, he played solidly in proleague on Hwaseung Oz but when he transitioned to KT, his play severely declined until he recently retired.

Uh i disagree with this -.-, Ya he won the a msl but thats basically it after that. He really wasent all that good after that


Still better than MVP and way better than Iron and Zergbong though

And he had been using a different ID for years so I don't know how much proof this is
butchji
Profile Joined September 2009
Germany1531 Posts
July 17 2011 18:24 GMT
#294
Someone got replays of forGG?
Finskie
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Sweden412 Posts
July 17 2011 18:33 GMT
#295
go bugterran!
Violet.
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
July 17 2011 18:38 GMT
#296
On July 18 2011 03:23 Ikonn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2011 01:18 Tabbris wrote:
On July 16 2011 01:13 asdfTT123 wrote:
O_O

Wow.

If fOrGG transitions, I think he will be arguably the best and most accomplished ex-broodwar player in SC2. To give some background to those not familiar in the BW scene, fOrGG won an MSL against Jaedong 3-0, considered to be the best zerg brood-war player bar-non (though on some pretty bullshit maps). Otherwise, he played solidly in proleague on Hwaseung Oz but when he transitioned to KT, his play severely declined until he recently retired.

Uh i disagree with this -.-, Ya he won the a msl but thats basically it after that. He really wasent all that good after that


Still better than MVP and way better than Iron and Zergbong though

And he had been using a different ID for years so I don't know how much proof this is


It's not like he doesn't remember his old ID though.

I suppose anyone can answer "right" really, but this isn't the only source for the rumour either.
Jakalo
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Latvia2350 Posts
July 17 2011 20:27 GMT
#297
If this comes to be true it will be sick sick sick, <3 forgg
Nostalgia is not as good as it used to be.
PaPoolee
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Netherlands660 Posts
July 17 2011 20:33 GMT
#298
On December 28 2010 17:55 Cedstick wrote:
Now watch him move to Starcraft 2 and be a top-tier player XD


This guy was the first to call it, on fOrGG's retirement thread =D looking forward to seeing him play in tournaments :O.
ppshchik
Profile Joined September 2010
United States862 Posts
July 17 2011 20:56 GMT
#299
BW success mean nothing, IdrA has said in his stream that many former BW players who should supposedly perform better are slacking after being released from BW pro-teams which is Frutidealer's and Tester's case. Bomber was a EstrO B-teamer yet he defeated IMMVP in the Code A finals.
Legends never die... they end up working in McDonalds.
rauk
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States2228 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-17 22:06:55
July 17 2011 22:00 GMT
#300
On July 18 2011 05:56 ppshchik wrote:
BW success mean nothing, IdrA has said in his stream that many former BW players who should supposedly perform better are slacking after being released from BW pro-teams which is Frutidealer's and Tester's case. Bomber was a EstrO B-teamer yet he defeated IMMVP in the Code A finals.


mvp's not successful, he had like under 40% televised winrate? the only reason he got any playing time was because stars had a fucking godawful terran lineup before they got really and purchased light. no one good has switched until forgg, he might've had a depressing run at the tail end of 2010 but before that he was doing okay in SPL and made it into individual leagues.
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