EPTPrediction poll: What types of new units in HotS? - Page 21
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WArped
United Kingdom4845 Posts
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
Not for the stupid BW nostalgia reasons we've had bandied about in this thread. I mean, yeah Reavers had cool micro, so if Blizzard does get rid of the Colossus, then I guess it would be cool if Reavers replaced them. However, the reason they should remove the Colossus is because of the HUGE overlap with Carriers. We will probably never see Carriers used competitively, just because the exact same units that beat Colossus beat Carriers. Almost all the tactical uses and benefits for Carriers (Attacking from over cliffs, huge DPS, hiding behind tanking units attacking from range) are the same for Colossus. Even if Carriers were statistically extremely similar, or even ever so slightly better than Colossus, they would and should NEVER be used, because Colossus are placed so much better in the tech tree, with the aforementioned similar benefits to Carriers. The building that create Colossus creates observers, which are required for Protoss, and upgrades for Gateways work on Colossus. Because of this, Colossus work so much better than Carriers, without providing any particular differentiation from them tactically. Because of this, I think that the Colossus should be replaced. In general, even as a Protoss player, I don't feel like they are the best designed race, however, Blizzard have already proved themselves willing to dramatically shake up their games with expansions, so I don't feel too worried that important changes won't be made. For Zerg, I guess Lurkers would add a cool delaying factor to midgame Zerg play, which could be cool. I think the Roach could use a bit of an overhaul, as they are kinda dull. Perhaps make them faster (for more hit and run attacks) and make their burrow regeneration a bit better again, as it was one of the main of characteristics Roaches, and now is basically ignored. And I think the Infester should be removed or changed. I feel like they do too much: Stop small Melee units (Zerglings aren't great when they can't move), stop medium ranged units (Since the damage buff to armour it destroys Roaches, Stalkers and Maruaders), destroys high priority large targets (Neural Parasite vs Tanks, Battlecruisers, Colossus, Mothership, Carriers etc), stops drops through completely paralysing the units, and breaking defensive emplacements (Infested Terrans) Oh, and it destroys marines. However, it does all of this without being particularly tactically interesting. Specifically, Fungal Growth is like storm, without the awesome animation, and cool area denial abilities. It's not OP, but it is good versus everything, and really lame. For Terran, I think the race is actually really well developed. Maybe Thors should be adjusted so mech is more viable, but really, Terrans seems nicely designed. Reapers getting mines would be cool, and I think would really change Terran Bio play, but to be honest Terran doesn't need that much added on to it. Not that new units wouldn't be cool, and balance modification may be needed in the future, but right now changing Terran does not need to be a priority. Tl;DR: Colossus need replacing for actual reasons rather than Reavers being cool, Zerg need a new spellcaster, Terran is Blizzard's design success, lets hope for more of that in HotS. EDIT:Wow. Long ass post. | ||
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bEwArE
United Kingdom121 Posts
On July 05 2011 12:04 sluggaslamoo wrote: Would rather just vultures, hellions are so terrible vs armored and buildings, its half the reason heavy metal sucks so much vs protoss/terran. I will be furious if Blizzard actually said this because it clearly shows that they have no idea what they are doing. The "we do not like mass X compositions, we just want it as a support unit" is almost child-like. SC2 suffers from having so many gimmicky units that you have to use all of them in a single battle. People say there are more used units in SC2 than in BW, that may be the case, but each unit individually is less useful. In TvP (I go mech), I have tanks, marines, hellions, ravens, vikings, ghosts, thors, planetary fortresses, while the protoss uses, high templar, dark templar, voidray, carrier, colossus, immortal, stalker, zealot, all used in a single battle. Not only does this look like a cluster fuck, each unit basically doesn't require any control after doing a single command. In BW I would only use 3 units, but I needed to use them well. The game was much easier to understand, but harder to master, a lot more fun, and a lot easier on the eyes. The reason for this is Blizzards obsession with creating gimmicky units that are sprinkled into the main army. Seriously, back in ALPHA and BETA all I would hear is this "support" unit or "meat-shield" unit, and would hardly every hear about core units that actually fulfill more than one role. So now the only core unit Terran has is the marine, and that explains A LOT. Protoss doesn't even have a core unit, and Zerg's core unit (the Hydra) can't even be used properly. Of course mass Thors are being used, it is the only mech unit that can stand against immortals and can shoot both air and ground. Once carriers were out in BW, your army was 90% goliaths. Blizzard thinks that by nerfing the Thor, you won't see mass Thor, ok that may be true, but will not see mech either. The fix is more fundamental than just adding energy to the Thor (why the hell is the Thor a spellcaster anyway, wtf?, could you imagine Schwarzenegger charging up his energy so he can cast his fireball?). Also whats the point in using siege tanks when Protoss in SC2 is a race purely designed to counter siege tanks, blink stalker, chargelot, void-ray, immortal, colossus [9 range, doesn't require setup, a siege unit that is more mobile than ground units], high templar with smart-cast but still only needs 2 storms to take out tanks, warp-in to stop harass. Basically the only viable unit you have left in the mech arsenal is the Thor, or just use MMM, because its almost like Protoss doesn't even have a proper response to them except forcefield in the early-mid game until P has enough units (doesn't make sense at all considering Protoss was the tough heavy hitting race, where as Terran was a defensive/zoning slow push race). Protoss is broken because nearly every unit was designed to counter the seige tank, don't ask me why. However because of 1 unit, the Colossus. Mech is the only way Terran can fight Protoss head on in the late game. MMM is both extremely boring in SC2, and TvP lategame turns into a stupid cat & mouse chase because Terran doesn't want to engage mass Colossus. Mass bio vs every composition also just feels wrong with Terran. PS. I don't really care about BW units being in SC2 (even though I'd like to see BW units make a comeback), I just want Blizzard to stop making gimmicky units, and actually give us units we can actually use. Possible areas where each race is lacking + Show Spoiler + Terran needs a mobile anti-air unit preferrable air that can take on ALL air-units, to stop mass mass muta but also broodlords and mass void-rays/carriers. The thor is too immobile. Terran needs a mobile specialist unit preferrably air that can take on ALL other specialist units. The ghost is too immobile and dies so fast. Infestor BL will continue to be a problem otherwise. Protoss needs a core gateway unit that doesn't suck and can take on every other unit without forcefields but with micro, and can survive on their own. This is so Protoss can get up early expansions without dying instantly to stimmed MMM, and marauders won't be so overpowered early game. Nerfs to stim (50% increase instead of 100%) because of terrible Protoss gateway units, has made TvZ almost impossible late game against zerg. Zerg is just completely wrong right now. Zerg needs a mobile anti-air unit early game, the Queen is too immobile and flaky. Zerg needs options to be aggressive at all stages of the game. Defending and macro-ing up as Zerg makes no sense at all. Zerg needs overpowered spellcasters and overpowered units (given good flanking and micro) so they can be aggressive with a small amount of defense and continue to make lots of bases and don't die instantly because their scouting options are so bad early game. Nerf spawn-larva to the ground. Early game Zerg should be strongest early game, not late game. Late game Zerg can make more hatcheries anyway, spawn larva has resulted in some of the worst nerfs to zerg. Zerg needs lurkers because banelings die, and dieing banelings means lost drones. Its so stupid to see banelings clean up everything only to die to the second push because Zerg couldn't make drones. I agree with the Terran points about needing a new anti-air unit, Thor really is just too slow and immobile. I don't think Zerg should be made to have big heavy units, IMO zerg should be a race that swarms you with really weak low damage units all the time, but I guess this would be very hard to balance. | ||
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thehitman
1105 Posts
As far as the Terran I think removing the marauder and introducing a beefed up firebat would be great, while reapers could be improved a bit and take the hellions place. | ||
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FroZen(-_-)
United States183 Posts
IF they bring the lurker back its just going to be broodwar.... Terran will probably get some nerfs, they seem to have basically everything they need They should definitely make a new tech path (zerg) that makes the roach morph into a (greatly improved) hydralisk or something(maybe lurker?) Reduce range on roaches toss could use a stonger ground anti air unit, maybe switch the Immortal role seemingly as it looks like a walking turret... "This is my secret dream for the expansion : Protoss : Collossus removed, Reavers added. + Buff for the warp prism. Phoenixes get corsair's attack. (because protoss has no air splash except for archon) Zerg : Lurker added; + addition of a new spell caster Scourges replace corruptors. Terran : Land mine upgrade for the reaper; Cliff-walking mechanic removed. Science vessel replaces raven." Why does everyone feel it just needs to become Broodwar, seriously.... | ||
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NormandyBoy
France200 Posts
I'd love to have mines, but I don't really see how they could work in the actual state of detection... Also I think Terran lacks a way to deal with mass mutas, Thors are just too immobile EVEN to defend when you have 3 bases or more. Just give the raven fucking irradiate instead of useless seeker missile that never hits anything, or make Thors able to attack air while being transported by a medivac, now THAT would be badass (but maybe OP). | ||
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Maginor
Norway505 Posts
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Zanno
United States1484 Posts
1) corruptor -> scourge 2) infestor -> defiler if you had both of these, colossus play would be much more micro intensive dark swarm doesn't prevent splash damage, so ZvP lategame would mean the colossus isn't your primary damage dealer, it's your ONLY damage dealer it also provides a good late game counter to force fields, force fields get thrown up and dark swarm is thrown up in reaction i think the ultimate consequence of this would be that blink stalkers still rule the midgame, but if it reaches hive tech stage, you need to transition into a zealot heavy mix with stalker support to pick off incoming scourge if you want to keep up with colossus play it might seem like it would break ZvT, but i think that fungal+banelings is probably stronger than swarm+banelings because you can't escape, and hey, if dark swarm was in the game, maybe terran would actually have a reason to research seeker missile lurkers are cool and i wouldn't object to them, but i don't think they actually cover any of zerg's current weaknesses | ||
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L3g3nd_
New Zealand10461 Posts
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Nizzy
United States839 Posts
I can't image how imba it would be for a toss to just throw down 8 FF's behind your army then roll in the 4-5 reavers to just kill the MM instantly in that balled up small area. Zerg: Can you image how much better this game would be right now if Zerg had lurkers to battle vs FF's of Protoss? Also Zerg is defintiley lacking the defiler cloud because they can't break mass defense like mass cannons/toss ball or mass terran defense on 3 base. | ||
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SecondSandwich
United States319 Posts
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L3g3nd_
New Zealand10461 Posts
On August 02 2011 22:38 SecondSandwich wrote: Bring back the scourge, that would be awesome. I love watching the BW scourge cloning micro--sooo exciting seeing them do that dance with the science vessels no chance they will bring back a unit, might add something similar though | ||
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SecondSandwich
United States319 Posts
On August 02 2011 23:14 L3g3nd_ wrote: no chance they will bring back a unit, might add something similar though Works for me  | ||
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Zanno
United States1484 Posts
On August 02 2011 23:14 L3g3nd_ wrote: did you read the interview with browder? they're definitely considering lurkers, seeing as its the most requested unit for the expansionno chance they will bring back a unit, might add something similar though | ||
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mattyHs
United Kingdom33 Posts
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bunnymuncher
Canada112 Posts
I personally, like many others, cannot wait for the lurker. Adding new units to the game would only diversify strategies, and therefore make the game a lot more fun to play. | ||
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HubertFelix
France631 Posts
On August 02 2011 23:36 mattyHs wrote: I really hope protoss get a harass type unit, similar to hellions. Very weak but fast and deal high damage to light. I hope they won't use the surfer model from the alpha. | ||
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Shagg
Finland825 Posts
Ground melee unit (ex. Zealot) I WANT TO BELIEVE ^_^ | ||
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Jonas :)
United States511 Posts
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Bobster
Germany3075 Posts
Love seeing the new shit they come up with. | ||
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