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Prediction poll: What types of new units in HotS? - Page 20

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-04 18:32:40
July 04 2011 18:30 GMT
#381
I suppose I will throw out a reply, even though I know this thread is silly and my reply will get flamed to extinction.

Here is what I hope to see in HotS.

For Terran:

Something that makes massed Mech play more viable. Not saying it's not viable right now, but it revolves around lots of Thors, and Blizzard has said they do not like mass Thor compositions, they want an army to include just a couple Thors as a support unit.

At the same time, Terran wants another unit that can be built from a Reactor'd Factory. Part of the appeal of Terran is its unit producing structures versatility. Everything can make multiple unit types which lends itself towards easy tech switches and difficulty of scouting Terran builds, which is important because they build their armies up slowly compared to Protoss warp ins and Zerg larva. The only Terran buildings that can only build 1 unit are Factories and Barracks with Reactors. Marines are already very versatile and used in every composition to some degree, but Hellions are not.

So what I'd like to see for Terran is a unit built from the Factory, does not require a Techlab, that is a small, meaty, somewhat versatile Mech unit. Perhaps it can hit air, but focuses more on fighting vs. ground. Perhaps it does not require a tech lab on the Factory, but still requires an Armory, so the idea is to use it as your backbone unit when going mass mech, with tanks and thors as backup.


For Zerg:

I'd like to see more late game tech for Zerg. Another spellcaster would be nice, perhaps a flying one. Blizzard has said they don't particularly like the Overseer as a unit, so I'm guessing they might design a late game flying spellcaster, move the Overseers spells there, and then make the Overseer cheaper and just have it be a fast moving, flying detector with no spells. If Overseers only cost say, 50/50, and built faster, but didn't have spells, I think a lot of Zerg players would like that as a scouting tool, and a late game tech flying spellcaster for Zerg with Contaminate and some other stuff might be cool too.

I'd also like to see, rather than new units, a lot of new upgrades to existing units. I feel like every unit in the game should have some sort of unique upgrade, so players who like an individual unit can attempt to create a strategy that revolves around upgrading that unit and making it awesome. Zerg units and structures lack the sort of unique upgrades that Terran and to a lesser degree Protoss units do. Since it's going to be a Zerg campaign and they've said they're focusing on transforming a lot of existing units rather than adding a bunch of new ones, I think that will transition to multiplayer and we'll see a lot of new upgrades to existing Zerg units rather than new units themselves.


For Protoss:

Protoss I think has the most availability and most need for new units right now. My concept of Protoss is that they have 3 completely different tech trees (Robotics, Stargate and Templar), and they should only be on one such tree throughout the early and mid game, with only enough time to tech to multiple trees towards the late game. This is why Protoss has so many buildings and it's why they have so many mandatory upgrades, Blizzard is trying to get you to focus on 1 of 3 trees, and trying to get your opponent to scout in advance what tree you are going for.

But I feel like they've somewhat fallen short of the mark there. Basically any build requires you to have an Observer, which then means you're incentivized towards Colossus tech because you already have the Robotics out and once your Observers are fielded you aren't doing much with it.

So for Protoss, first I'd like to see the Observer, and also possibly the Warp Prism, moved back to the Observatory. Have the Observatory be the mandatory building everybody has to get for detection, and then let them pick one of the 3 tech paths without being nudged towards Robotics.

Then after that, you have to make sure each of the 3 trees is able to stand on its own, and that's where new units come in. If you go Robotics, you have a lack of anti air. Big air plays generally force a Protoss player to go for blink stalkers and templar. So I'd like to see a Robotics tech unit that is dedicated to anti air. Possibly a ground unit like the Immortal but one that can only attack air. There aren't any ground units in the game that can only attack air, so I think that would be neat. Also might be pretty good vs. Colossus if built correctly.

For Stargate tech, Protoss lacks a meaty unit that can be the filler in a multi Stargate composition. Void Rays are a bit too expensive and Phoenixes can't attack ground. So some sort of generic Stargate tech unit that can attack both air and ground but isn't particularly amazing would be nice. Scout roflroflrofl?

For Templar tech, I think Protoss is fairly well rounded, although I'd like to see them able to put Khaydarin Amulet back in, if they can balance around it. A Dark Templar upgrade might be neat too so the Dark Shrine doesn't just sort of sit there.


Anyways, this post has alleviated my boredom for a few minutes. Flame it at your liesure.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Auross
Profile Joined May 2011
Brazil104 Posts
July 04 2011 19:03 GMT
#382
Since the thread derailed into "what I'd like to see in Hots":

Zerg:
Roaches and Hydras change places in the tech tree. Hydras start costing 1 supply, and are nerffed acordingly. Roaches start costing 150/50 or even more, maybe start to take up 3 supply, but become more tanky units (colossi counter).
Lurkers added - evolution of the hydra den available at Tech 2.
Tier 3 flying caster added

Protoss:
New unit: "super zealot" available at warpgates after twilight counsil is built, can fuse to form archons. Also has anti-air capabilities. (Idea is a utility unit that also workers as a way to produce mass archons in a less gas-heavy way).
Dark Shrine now enables the Dark Pylon: observers can morph into a static structure that provides power. Remains cloacked while there aren't units warping inside it's radio.
Carriers reworked into a more supportish unit: get a shield ability that incresases all protoss units armour for a small time and restores part of their shields. Maybe another (upgradable) ability, like an ainti air attack.

Terran:

New unit: 3 supply mech produced at the factory, can leave land mines, maybe similar to the golias of the canpain.
Reapers reworked or replaced by a similar harass unit. (maybe create a upgrade to make them less squishy, so a few could be integrated into a bio oriented terran's army)
Raven get's a new, more postional oriented ability (think of psi storm or dark swarm as examples of positional oriented)
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
July 04 2011 20:47 GMT
#383
Anyone else really sick of the roach/hydra switch idea?

"But hey, what worked in BW has to work in SC2 too, right?"

No, not really.
Scorm
Profile Joined April 2011
United States104 Posts
July 04 2011 20:50 GMT
#384
I would love for Goliaths to be back in the game or Zerg to get some stronger, more responsive AA.
“It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful.” -Anton LaVey
Indrium
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2236 Posts
July 04 2011 20:51 GMT
#385
I want vultures and goliaths. In exchange I will give up hellions and thors.

I miss BW mech.
N1k0
Profile Joined June 2011
Uruguay1075 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-04 21:07:47
July 04 2011 21:05 GMT
#386
I want darkswarm and the ultralisk(the thing in sc2 is not an ultralisk, its just a big fat retarded cow) back!
hipsterdontlie
Profile Joined May 2011
United States42 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-04 21:48:57
July 04 2011 21:35 GMT
#387
On July 05 2011 04:03 Auross wrote:
Since the thread derailed into "what I'd like to see in Hots":
Terran:
Raven get's a new, more postional oriented ability (think of psi storm or dark swarm as examples of positional oriented)


The PDD is pretty position oriented, imo.

EDIT:
What I'd like to see:
Zerg: not lurkers, because it would turn SC2 into BW where everything was so slow. I do like the idea of a morph, maybe roaches that morph into 2 smaller, less tanky but faster creatures that do bonus to light. This way roach hydra can see more usage vs terran.

Protoss: Sentry energy upgrade <3. Colossus is good enough, we don't need the reaver. IMO protoss could use mobility, but a cliff jumper would eliminate any use of hallucinations, phoenixes, or rays (for harass). I'd like to see VR speed back.

Terran: mines would make me angry. A new reactored unit from the factory would not. So not vultures. perhaps predators, or goliath to compliment the terran mech army (albeit which i'm not a fan of). But it would give terran a better choice range, instead of marine tank and marine marauder builds. Also, it'd be nice if there was a mobile unit that can deal with mutalisks (i.e. valkyries or splash upgrade for viking?)
"How the hell can I make my teammates better by practicing?"- Allen Iverson
bEwArE
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom121 Posts
July 04 2011 22:12 GMT
#388
Terran - WTB Melee unit
IMMVP #1 Terran
dmillz
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada270 Posts
July 04 2011 22:26 GMT
#389
Predators for Terran that can come out of a factory without a tech lab would be a good addition.
thebole1
Profile Joined April 2011
Serbia126 Posts
July 05 2011 00:03 GMT
#390
I THINK whatever unites that insert in SC2 HOTS...



DINAMICH PATHIG (smart pathing) : you should be able to turn OFF (like in wc3 tft) and turn ON whatever game stile you play


END thx for reading !!!


LeoA
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada108 Posts
July 05 2011 01:22 GMT
#391
I think that they shouldn't add or remove any units from the game...and if you dis agree, thats like your opinion, man.

╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮

Before you say anything, remember...I bite.
Artlu
Profile Joined July 2011
8 Posts
July 05 2011 01:38 GMT
#392
I want me lurkers blizzard
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-05 03:06:19
July 05 2011 02:59 GMT
#393
On July 04 2011 23:00 DennyR wrote:
I dont care wich units they bring they just have to redesign protoss completely.

I dont think Protoss is imbalanced but it is too easy to play. You basically never have to worry about anything and in most cases protoss is the race that dictates the pace of the game. Espacially the colossus.

I think the colossus is the most wrong unit ever in a rts. I mean on paper its great, but it basically is a siegetank that has more dps, is more mobile and you dont have to fucking micro it.


Almost every timing in Protoss related matchups wrap around the colossus wich is just wrong and in combination with sentries on certain maps almost unbeatable if unscouted for 1min too long.


So either cut the colossus out and replace it or change its movementspeed and give the unit a mechanic wich makes it fun and hard to play.




As far as new units go, I want a new mech unit for terran. You are basically limited to 3 bad units and after siege tank nerf mech is pretty much useless.


For Protoss I really want a harass unit. They simply have nothing but DTs wich are more like a gamble.


For Zerg I really want to see something you can morph out of hydras. That would make hyrdas somewhat usefull and if colossi and tanks are out you can just morph them to whatever has more hp or is faster or even flies.



They should just remove the dark shrine completely. The DT turned from a great harass unit, to something that feels like cheese.

On July 05 2011 05:47 Bagi wrote:
Anyone else really sick of the roach/hydra switch idea?

"But hey, what worked in BW has to work in SC2 too, right?"

No, not really.


No because Roach can't shoot air. All early game BW units could shoot air, and air units were also weaker, Queen is a terrible excuse for no anti-air at tier 1. You should only suffer a lot of damage from doing a coin flip and coming out with a bad build order, not lose completely because protoss has 1 void ray.
Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
iamho
Profile Joined June 2009
United States3347 Posts
July 05 2011 03:03 GMT
#394
Give hellions mines and a speed upgrade!
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-05 04:28:45
July 05 2011 03:04 GMT
#395
On July 05 2011 12:03 iamho wrote:
Give hellions mines and a speed upgrade!


Would rather just vultures, hellions are so terrible vs armored and buildings, its half the reason heavy metal sucks so much vs protoss/terran.

On July 05 2011 12:03 iamho wrote:
Something that makes massed Mech play more viable. Not saying it's not viable right now, but it revolves around lots of Thors, and Blizzard has said they do not like mass Thor compositions, they want an army to include just a couple Thors as a support unit.
.


I will be furious if Blizzard actually said this because it clearly shows that they have no idea what they are doing. The "we do not like mass X compositions, we just want it as a support unit" is almost child-like.

SC2 suffers from having so many gimmicky units that you have to use all of them in a single battle. People say there are more used units in SC2 than in BW, that may be the case, but each unit individually is less useful.

In TvP (I go mech), I have tanks, marines, hellions, ravens, vikings, ghosts, thors, planetary fortresses, while the protoss uses, high templar, dark templar, voidray, carrier, colossus, immortal, stalker, zealot, all used in a single battle. Not only does this look like a cluster fuck, each unit basically doesn't require any control after doing a single command.

In BW I would only use 3 units, but I needed to use them well. The game was much easier to understand, but harder to master, a lot more fun, and a lot easier on the eyes.

The reason for this is Blizzards obsession with creating gimmicky units that are sprinkled into the main army. Seriously, back in ALPHA and BETA all I would hear is this "support" unit or "meat-shield" unit, and would hardly every hear about core units that actually fulfill more than one role. So now the only core unit Terran has is the marine, and that explains A LOT. Protoss doesn't even have a core unit, and Zerg's core unit (the Hydra) can't even be used properly.

Of course mass Thors are being used, it is the only mech unit that can stand against immortals and can shoot both air and ground. Once carriers were out in BW, your army was 90% goliaths. Blizzard thinks that by nerfing the Thor, you won't see mass Thor, ok that may be true, but will not see mech either. The fix is more fundamental than just adding energy to the Thor (why the hell is the Thor a spellcaster anyway, wtf?, could you imagine Schwarzenegger charging up his energy so he can cast his fireball?).

Also whats the point in using siege tanks when Protoss in SC2 is a race purely designed to counter siege tanks, blink stalker, chargelot, void-ray, immortal, colossus [9 range, doesn't require setup, a siege unit that is more mobile than ground units], high templar with smart-cast but still only needs 2 storms to take out tanks, warp-in to stop harass.

Basically the only viable unit you have left in the mech arsenal is the Thor, or just use MMM, because its almost like Protoss doesn't even have a proper response to them except forcefield in the early-mid game until P has enough units (doesn't make sense at all considering Protoss was the tough heavy hitting race, where as Terran was a defensive/zoning slow push race). Protoss is broken because nearly every unit was designed to counter the seige tank, don't ask me why.

However because of 1 unit, the Colossus. Mech is the only way Terran can fight Protoss head on in the late game. MMM is both extremely boring in SC2, and TvP lategame turns into a stupid cat & mouse chase because Terran doesn't want to engage mass Colossus. Mass bio vs every composition also just feels wrong with Terran.

PS. I don't really care about BW units being in SC2 (even though I'd like to see BW units make a comeback), I just want Blizzard to stop making gimmicky units, and actually give us units we can actually use.

Possible areas where each race is lacking
+ Show Spoiler +
Terran needs a mobile anti-air unit preferrable air that can take on ALL air-units, to stop mass mass muta but also broodlords and mass void-rays/carriers. The thor is too immobile.

Terran needs a mobile specialist unit preferrably air that can take on ALL other specialist units. The ghost is too immobile and dies so fast. Infestor BL will continue to be a problem otherwise.

Protoss needs a core gateway unit that doesn't suck and can take on every other unit without forcefields but with micro, and can survive on their own. This is so Protoss can get up early expansions without dying instantly to stimmed MMM, and marauders won't be so overpowered early game. Nerfs to stim (50% increase instead of 100%) because of terrible Protoss gateway units, has made TvZ almost impossible late game against zerg.

Zerg is just completely wrong right now.

Zerg needs a mobile anti-air unit early game, the Queen is too immobile and flaky.

Zerg needs options to be aggressive at all stages of the game. Defending and macro-ing up as Zerg makes no sense at all.

Zerg needs overpowered spellcasters and overpowered units (given good flanking and micro) so they can be aggressive with a small amount of defense and continue to make lots of bases and don't die instantly because their scouting options are so bad early game.

Nerf spawn-larva to the ground. Early game Zerg should be strongest early game, not late game. Late game Zerg can make more hatcheries anyway, spawn larva has resulted in some of the worst nerfs to zerg.

Zerg needs lurkers because banelings die, and dieing banelings means lost drones. Its so stupid to see banelings clean up everything only to die to the second push because Zerg couldn't make drones.




Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
Hnnngg
Profile Joined June 2011
United States1101 Posts
July 05 2011 03:47 GMT
#396
Ooooooh

Terran: Goliaths, same shit as in the campaign, fairly shitty ground attack and awesome-ass GtA attack, would come from Armory, keep everything else the exact fucking same, crybabies.

Zerg: Call it the Lurker, but just make it an underground Siege Tank that does AoE damage instead of splash damage and then has a single target 6-7 range air attack. Have it morph from two Hydras (Not exactly sure how this would work switching Hydra-Roach, but whatever this is worse than fantasy league crap). I'd also like to see something like Scourge, but just make it so banelings can switch from ground to air like vikings.

Protoss: This is the race I play, so I want to balance the shit out of it. Fuck FF, make it 100 energy and replace Blink with a sentry upgrade that decreases it back down to 50, same 150/150 cost. Then you take Blink, and shove it with the Dark Shrine for 250/250, and give DT blink alongside Stalkers, so when you use DT's you can actually have some sort of retention instead of either winning or wasting DT's the way it is now. For new units, shield-regen science vessel (I think some other people said it earlier, cba to remember the name) that would come with Fleet Beacon. ALSO make Dark Archon from 2 Dark Templar, but instead of another caster unit, make it the same shit as Archon but with AoE instead of splash (I don't think people give enough attention to the difference), so that Archon would be good against Ultras and Roaches, and Dark Archons would be good against Hydras and Lings and such, which would give Protoss another unit to use against Roaches, instead of forcing Protoss to go Immortal, which then leads to "boring" Colossus (I'm not going to try to argue for big-ass tower lazer badasses, some people think that SC should just be checkers or some shit)

Maybe add Leviathan and Jackson's Revenge type BC so T+Z can have a useless big-ass ship too. And before people say nydus, that's just a shitty warp-in, and Nuke is freaking T2 and Mothership is T3 so fuck that.

And of course, make Mothership/Hydras/Zealots/whatever else more useful.
JustinHit
Profile Joined October 2010
United States196 Posts
July 05 2011 04:22 GMT
#397
Zerg will have a unit where the Planetory fortress becomes infested when it burns red and can move slowly and do massive damage.
For the swarm for life!
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
July 05 2011 06:36 GMT
#398
All races have one artillery unit and I don't think any will get another one, as colossus and siege tank are both extremly fast available and zerg artillery has to be late available, else it would be imba...
Im going with:
Terran: Mech unit that can deal with immortals and zealots (--> high repetition, high dps), maybe antiair
Zerg: I guess there are 2possibilities: a combat caster or a T2.5 badass. Personally I hope for both: a KingHydralisk and an improved queen.
Protoss: well... I don't care about you, so hopefully a fathership that sucks as much as the mothership. ^^ But if I had to guess: Something that can deal with air a little better but doesn't overlap with stalkers/phoenix/voidray. Maybe simply a +2-3vs armored phoenix laser upgrade, so it shoots red...
Tonttu
Profile Joined August 2010
Finland606 Posts
July 05 2011 10:52 GMT
#399
Movement speed upgrade for Queen while offcreep that requires Hive, anyone?
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Naama, the #1 Conductor! | Slayers, Fnatic and Mouz | Naama, MMA and ForGG |
dbddbddb
Profile Joined April 2010
Singapore969 Posts
July 05 2011 10:52 GMT
#400
1 word

RIVORIVORIVORIVORIVORIVORIVORIVORIVORIVORIVORIVO
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