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On July 04 2011 14:55 oZe wrote:
Sounds like slot of people ITT would like HOTS to be broodwar in a new box ;-) When I first played sc2 I felt it was too similar to broodwar to even warrant a full 2 more like a 1.4. So I'm kinda confounded by everybody bitching about how broodwar was better, it was more or less the same except now graphics are prettier (and slower they should have kept the graphics engine since the only time you zoom is when you're trying to ship resources and to only time you rotate is when you press the wrong key).
Flame away senior citizens also please tell me how milk was cheaper when you were young and how far you had to walk to school ;-)
Your post shows that you clearly didn't play both games at a high level whatsoever. I'm happy with SC2, but SC1 and SC2 are about as different as two RTS titles can be. Maybe your argument is that a few of the units have the same name in both games?
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On July 04 2011 18:05 smegged wrote:
As this thread has effectively become a "what I want" thread, this is what I would like to see. These changes are designed to weaken the early game, reduce the cheese factor and reward better unit positioning/spell play. Basically to make you think more.
Zerg:
Macro mechanic halved in power
Swap the roach and the hydralisk in the tech tree
Drop hydra cost to 75/25 and cut dps by a third
Hydra speed upgrade at tier 2
Roach cost changed to 100/0
Roach hitpoints increased
Owned creep that allows allies to build on it and restricts opponents from gaining speed buff from it
Speedling speed on creep cut by 0.5
Adrenal glands upgrade increased to 50%
Overseer removed
Overlords given detection
Tier 3 air spellcaster with unit weapon disabling spell (single target), parasite and possibly either an attack or a third utility spell (shoot creep - shoots a line of creep?)
Burrow moved to tier 1
Corruption removed from corruptors. Corruptors given Autocastable 3 range increase on cooldown.
Terran:
Marine base HP reduced to 35
Marine combat shield upgrade increased by 10 hp
Hellions removed and replaced by cliff jumping single target harassment unit
Reaper removed
Marauder HP reduced to 100
Marauder 25 HP upgrade added (takes a moderate amount of time to upgrade)
Firebat added - 75/25 cost with upgradable spider mines (3)
Timer added to Mule
Thor removed
New factory unit added - spellcaster, moderate speed, low range high damage slow fire rate attack. Castable spells - aoe slow, single target high damage attack
Viking given a new mode - close range air to air splash similar to the old thor or valkyrie (Viking appearance changes significantly when using this mode)
HSM removed, Irradiate added to Raven
Protoss:
(a) Warpgates removed, zealots and stalkers given HP buff, stalkers given damage buff, all gateway units given a 3 second build time reduction; or
(b) Warpgates remain, but new tier 1.5 gateway only unit added. Immune to slowing/snaring effects, range 3, 2 food cost, ~100 health
Colossus significantly changed - two modes "attack" mode and "cover" mode. In attack mode the Colossus has a high single target long range attack and in cover mode the colossus has a circular aoe medium damage attack with less range (basically the current attack, in a circle with less range)
Phoenix given AOE upgrade at the fleet beacon
Carriers given new ability to suicide interceptors to do 100 damage to an enemy unit.
New nexus ability - 10 energy cost, gives one unit or building detection capabilities for 20 seconds.
Templar/Dark Templar both built from templar archives and dark shrine removed.
Anyway these are just some ideas. I'd like the zerg game to be less about massing drones and more about engaging your enemy than avoiding them. I'd also like to see terran revolve less around sheer offensive dps and more about positional play. I'd also like to see protoss have stronger gateway units. Warpgates really break what Blizzard can do with gateway units as they effectively have to be balanced around being able to be warped in at their opponents base.
I think some of these ideas are kind of silly, but some are awesome.
As a zerg player, I 100% approve of the macro mechanic nerf and speedling on creep speed nerf. I actually agree with all your zerg nerfs, because they force zerg units to have to suck to make up for how much larva and counter-attack-ability we have.
I also really like the firebat with mines 
Funny that you remove the hellion and replace it with the reaper, then remove the reaper :D
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New unit for Terran: Engineer.
Morphed SCV that can't mine, and can only build/repair bunkers, which it does at varying speeds by picking a patch version at random and using the bunker buildtime for that particular patch.
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On July 04 2011 19:51 zeru wrote:
I really hope terran is getting a new air caster, to replace the raven.
Whats wrong with the raven?
If terran were to lose all units it currently has except one of my choosing, i'd go with raven..
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As a zerg, I'd appreciate any long range t2 unit x.X;
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On July 04 2011 19:58 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 19:51 zeru wrote:
I really hope terran is getting a new air caster, to replace the raven. Whats wrong with the raven? If terran were to lose all units it currently has except one of my choosing, i'd go with raven..
Its pretty much the reason players are having so much trouble with infestor.
Imagine if you could irradiate the infestor. BOOM! BALANCED!.
If Blizzard is planning on nerfing Broodlord Infestor, I would rather let zerg keep their stats and just have the science vessel.
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For terran: Maybe change the thor to have a faster moving anti-air mode, and a slower moving anti-ground mode, which have to be switched actively. Add a more mobile mech unit like the goliath with a range 6 anti-ground and a range 7 "weak to light" anti-air.
For protoss: Remove colossus, add reaver (slow moving slow shooting high splash damage unit). Give the immortal less damage, little more armor, add Dragoon again to be a medium damage medium hp air-ground unit. Basically: stronger than the stalker, but more expensive, with stronger anti-armored capacities, but weaker against light units.
Zerg: make roach upgradable to lurker, and give burrowed hydralisks the ability to shoot air units while they're underground. Change fungal growth to either a no damage 2 second complete stun (nothing can shoot), or make it a slow. Maybe change it to an armor-reducing slow spell (Everything gets -5 armor while hit by fungal growth, friendly fire possible). I see this as a big cloud in which everything gets this effect, so units that enter the cloud after it has been placed still get penalized. Maybe also add a queen upgrade to something like the "overqueen", which is a tank unit that spawns broodlings with energy. It can instantly spawn a nice amount of broodlings, depending on it's energy levels, and has an area of effect range 6 attack which is better against light.
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Basically: stronger than the stalker, but more expensive, with stronger anti-armored capacities, but weaker against light units.
Well.. That's an Immortal. :/
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On July 02 2011 20:20 adwodon wrote:
Terran will never have a melee unit, seige tanks would make it too hard to use and it doesnt fit with the Terran feel.
T needs a minelayer unit more than anything.
I also think Thor & BC need a bit of reworking, or a new air / mech unit is required to compliment them (mines would help).
the immortal knockback thing sounds really awesome... maybe not on every attack but at least a cd or some mana so u can target the knockback unit
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I'd be totally stoked If they gave us some BW-Units, like:
Protoss: Arbiter (not very likely with mothership and Warp-Prism that kinda fill its role) or Reaver.
Terran: Vulture!!!
Zerg: Lurker or Defiler or some sort of T3 Caster-Unit, most likely Air, with a "kill-this-spell" like Spawn Broodlings, Irradiate etc.
A T1/T1.5 Cliffhopping Unit would also be very good.
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I'd want seeker missile reworked somehow.. It is so bad in its current form..
But anyway as a Terran, I'd like some upgrades reworked too.. most are so unused. No need for new units imo, maybe rework some.. And if I recall, blizz had some plans that Terran might only get some new upgrades for existing units, not new units
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I would love the units to be a lot less boring. Less a more more micro and positioning. Like the colossus freezing for a little while before it can fire with thermal lance. The raven should be made a lot more useful, for instance make seeker missile a cheap, but long research time upgrade. Reduce the insane energy cost and give the raven the ability to sprint at the cost of energy.
Make the roach more interesting. Make the hydra useful. Give us the void ray with 7 range but with less health. Cheesy, yes, but exciting as hell. Give the thor an expensive upgrade that allows it to carry 3 scv's on his back for autorepair. Give the corruptor the ability to suicide. Reduce reaper build time by 5 seconds, bring reaper speed back to rax tech but make the upgrade take way longer. Give reapers the ability to lay mines.
What I lack in this game is more micro. Vultures laying mines, dark swarm, arbiters using stasis, dragoons walking crazy, mutas/scourge control, reaver drops, lurker positioning, tank sieging. Storms and storm dodging. That is what made SCBW exciting. Every unit required micro. And some things in the game were blatantly overpowered ( mines, tanks, carriers, dark swarm ) . But it didn't matter since when everything is overpowered it all cancels. I see a lot of people who seem to want broodwar units back. I dont want broodwar units back. I want sc2 units made a little more special.
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I have never played broodwar competitively....but I would LOVE to see the arbiter return. The mothership is such a retarted one-trick-pony unit, and arbiter PvT games were (are) incredibly fun to watch, even if I had no idea wtf was going on back then.
Maybe an upgrade to the warpprism? (expensive of course)
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lol everyone wants the reaver and lurker back.
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On July 04 2011 20:51 zeru wrote:
Im also hoping they remove all movement disabling abilities such as forcefields and fungal, because i think they are really boring, and make for lame play.
Yeah.. Fungal would be better if it just slows like ensnare in BW. Fungal + banelings arent cute combo :>
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On July 04 2011 20:54 sleepingdog wrote:
I have never played broodwar competitively....but I would LOVE to see the arbiter return. The mothership is such a retarted one-trick-pony unit, and arbiter PvT games were (are) incredibly fun to watch, even if I had no idea wtf was going on back then.
Maybe an upgrade to the warpprism? (expensive of course)
Yeah I loved going mass zeal goon + arbiters in 3v3s 
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Lurkers are essentialy zerg siege tanks right?
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EPT
