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Pyre
United States1940 Posts
I'm not sure what terran really need. They seem to have a unit that fills almost every role. Perhaps another mech unit but I don't see how it wouldn't overlap. Goliath essentially thor, firebat/vulture similar to hellion. Zerg definitely have areas where a unit could fill a roll. A faster ground anti-air unit, something that does splash damage similar to a colossus or tank. Maybe a slow meaty ranged unit like the thor. | ||
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Blattdorf
Poland38 Posts
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Leviance
Germany4079 Posts
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galtdunn
United States977 Posts
On July 02 2011 20:17 sabas123 wrote: P: i realy am not sure what they are gonna put into, but i hope there gonna do a reaver like untie Z: LURKER!!! T: a better anti air unit besides from marines LOL. yeah I hate when my only air defense early game is the only unit i build. | ||
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DennyR
Germany379 Posts
I dont think Protoss is imbalanced but it is too easy to play. You basically never have to worry about anything and in most cases protoss is the race that dictates the pace of the game. Espacially the colossus. I think the colossus is the most wrong unit ever in a rts. I mean on paper its great, but it basically is a siegetank that has more dps, is more mobile and you dont have to fucking micro it. Almost every timing in Protoss related matchups wrap around the colossus wich is just wrong and in combination with sentries on certain maps almost unbeatable if unscouted for 1min too long. So either cut the colossus out and replace it or change its movementspeed and give the unit a mechanic wich makes it fun and hard to play. As far as new units go, I want a new mech unit for terran. You are basically limited to 3 bad units and after siege tank nerf mech is pretty much useless. For Protoss I really want a harass unit. They simply have nothing but DTs wich are more like a gamble. For Zerg I really want to see something you can morph out of hydras. That would make hyrdas somewhat usefull and if colossi and tanks are out you can just morph them to whatever has more hp or is faster or even flies. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On July 04 2011 22:39 Leviance wrote: HotS needs to introduce units that cause excitement for the watchers, and I still hope Blizzard has the balls to remove the Collosus, most boring unit in the game + too strong for a unit that easy to handle I don't think the colossus needs to be removed, it could be just re-adjusted to have a defined niche role. Like instead of killing everything on the ground, it would have bonus damage to light units and only be really good against those. Buff other protoss options accordingly. | ||
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smegged
Australia213 Posts
On July 04 2011 19:57 Beef Noodles wrote: I think some of these ideas are kind of silly, but some are awesome. As a zerg player, I 100% approve of the macro mechanic nerf and speedling on creep speed nerf. I actually agree with all your zerg nerfs, because they force zerg units to have to suck to make up for how much larva and counter-attack-ability we have. I also really like the firebat with mines  Funny that you remove the hellion and replace it with the reaper, then remove the reaper :D Ha I wasn't even thinking reaper, I was thinking a spider bike with jumping capabilities and no mines. My point with the zerg nerfs was to ensure that their earlier game units can be stronger because we can't power drone as hard. It would force zerg into pressuring their opponents instead of basically acting as resource collectors for the first fifteen minutes. Some of these ideas are ridiculous, but the whole point is that I think there are a lot of creative things that they can do with the units. Colossi are really what make the game bad. They are big fat walking globs of death. Difficult to deal with but completely uninteresting as a unit. Their vulnerability is almost meaningless because they can be repositioned so easily and never leave home without a pack of stalkers. Terran at the moment have too many strong options in the early game vs zerg for harassment. My changes (dropping the reaper back to factory, making it mineral only and removing the hellion) were designed to push the game into tier 2 territory and not just have zvt be "terran loses if their harass fails and wins if it succeeds" as it almost is now. It's just too easy to roast a whole mineral line with blue flame hellions before the 10 minute mark. I also hate build order losses. Nothing is more boring than a pro game where the terran manages to get two cloaked banshees into their opponents base, kill 6-10 probes and win the game. Hence giving zerg and protoss tier 1 detection, to match terran's ability. The overseer is a ridiculous unit and should be annihilated. They're way too easy to snipe in the mid-late game in zvp as well. Giving overlords detection would also give zerg players a reason to upgrade speed at tier 2. Hydra need a speed upgrade to be viable as anything other than a ground based AA unit. Carriers also need some love and I thought the interceptor suicide was a fun and interesting decision to make for the player. I don't like that protoss are forced to go warpgates every game. I think that there should be some choice, some reason to stick with gateways. So giving them a gateway only unit would add a new dimension. I don't like the proxy warp in ability of the gateway either. It either makes gateway units either too powerful or too weak (they're currently too weak). 100 minerals should not give you four production facilities right outside your opponent's base. In addition to all of this I think that the thor is a stupid unit. It offers little to no micro opportunity that does not already exist with a tank and is either too strong or too weak. It's fat and it's slow and it's powerful. That makes it uninteresting. Remove it and give terran a viable spellcaster that helps them control ground other than the raven. Anyway, enough ranting from me. I trust that by the third expansion we'll have a game that is far more interesting than the one we have now. | ||
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ManicMarine
Australia409 Posts
IMO I think they'll add a dedicated anti-deathball unit for zerg; although as the metagame develops perhaps baneling+infestor may fufill that role. Terran will get a unit that has some harassment ability; or perhaps they'll redesign the reaper. Protoss will get a support unit of some description, perhaps a caster who doesn't have a nuke spell like the HT does. I think (read hope) we'll be seeing more redesigning than adding units. I feel that every race is in a good spot in terms of useful units go at the moment, and we probably don't need more units. We just need the current units roles to be re-evaluated. Protoss is too deathball oriented. If we look back at the way SCBW worked the Terrans were the one with the strongest units overall (T is so OP) but they were so difficult to use that even a small mistake can lose you the game. Protoss has the best units in WoL, but they're not a positional based race like Terran in BW. If you left terrans alone for long enough in SCBW then you might just die because their compositions become so cost efficient. However it still requires the terran to execute his attack pretty much perfectly to win. In WoL, if you leave protoss alone for long enough they also become really scary, but their attacks aren't as difficult to execute and as fine balanced as terran was. I'm not saying Protoss is the 'easy race', I don't want to get into that argument, I'm just saying that I think the whole deathball idea that underpins a lot of collosus based protoss strategies is fundamentally a bad idea and Blizzard needs to put some serious thought into redesigning the way it works. What were we talking about? | ||
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IVN
534 Posts
On July 04 2011 23:18 ManicMarine wrote: What's with everyone voting for a protoss ground artillery unit? That's precisely what the collosus IS! A unit with 9 range and high splash DPS sounds like an artillery unit to me. IMO I think they'll add a dedicated anti-deathball unit for zerg; although as the metagame develops perhaps baneling+infestor may fufill that role. Terran will get a unit that has some harassment ability; or perhaps they'll redesign the reaper. Protoss will get a support unit of some description, perhaps a caster who doesn't have a nuke spell like the HT does. I think (read hope) we'll be seeing more redesigning than adding units. I feel that every race is in a good spot in terms of useful units go at the moment, and we probably don't need more units. We just need the current units roles to be re-evaluated. Protoss is too deathball oriented. If we look back at the way SCBW worked the Terrans were the one with the strongest units overall (T is so OP) but they were so difficult to use that even a small mistake can lose you the game. Protoss has the best units in WoL, but they're not a positional based race like Terran in BW. If you left terrans alone for long enough in SCBW then you might just die because their compositions become so cost efficient. However it still requires the terran to execute his attack pretty much perfectly to win. In WoL, if you leave protoss alone for long enough they also become really scary, but their attacks aren't as difficult to execute and as fine balanced as terran was. I'm not saying Protoss is the 'easy race', I don't want to get into that argument, I'm just saying that I think the whole deathball idea that underpins a lot of collosus based protoss strategies is fundamentally a bad idea and Blizzard needs to put some serious thought into redesigning the way it works. What were we talking about? Terran doesnt need another harass unit. Most of their units already are. Marines/Marauders + Medivacs, Hellions, Banshees, Tanks on a Cliff, Thorships, even slow Reapers can do disgusting damage. Why would Terran need more? On the other hand, Protoss have aside from DTs and Phoenix no harass units, and therefore opt to play the deathball style. If they had, you probably wouldnt see Colossus that often. And you are wrong, Colossi are not easy units, and they are certainly not OP. Play Protoss for a bit, and see for yourself. | ||
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drcatellino
Canada346 Posts
I hope Blizzard don't listen to fans forum and implant new and interesting units, instead of "bringing back units". However I admit that a unit with a similar role to the lurker would be really interesting and useful. It doesn't have to be the lurker, just a similar one. As for Terran, you guys should check the units from the campaign to see which one should be introduced. | ||
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Tonttu
Finland606 Posts
 Or similar to goliath.. Something "fast" and "cheap"Thor isn't really an answer for AA. It's AoE damage is cute, but it sucks. Go and Magic Box shit out of Thors and boom they are gone. Remove that Strike Cannon shit and add an upgrade which gives Thor bigger AoE AA attack or something and it is better.. maybe then we don't need goliaths to do Mech's AA work. Sure you can add marines or vikings there. Vikings are cool but not as cool as goliath. But it takes something away from pure mech  P.S. Goliaths are like only unit I really want from BW if necessary. Other units can be reworked slightly. P.P.S. Dustin Browders idea of Terrible Terrible Damage... Sure he was working with Red Alerts and so on.. I can see that. Boring and Huge units killing everything instantly isn't fun. Look at Thor, Colossus and Mothership.. Please no. | ||
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Eknoid4
United States902 Posts
On July 04 2011 12:55 L3gendary wrote: Maybe you should read your own post, where you said I didn't like the new units because I couldn't "handle" the new game, which is ironic since I started playing starcraft with sc2. I don't have a problem with other new units like the reaper, stalker, sentry, queen etc. And units aren't the only important thing in a game. No I didn't say you didn't like the new units because you couldn't handle the new game. You said you wanted all the units to be BW units. Which means you're better off just playing brood war because this game, for better or worse, is supposed to be different. I don't mean you can't handle the task of playing the game. I meant you can't seem to handle the new/different type of game. Maybe it's too different and intimidating for you, who knows. But I never said sc2 was easier or harder So back to learning to read for you! | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On July 04 2011 23:42 drcatellino wrote: As for Terran, you guys should check the units from the campaign to see which one should be introduced. Blizzard tell us that the campaign terran unit are prototype which didn't work for terran multiplayer sooo i guess they won't use them in HotS. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5217 Posts
So I expect 1 new ground and 1 new air unit per race for multiplayer. Protoss: A high tier powerful flying AOE anti-air caster unit (some kind of Dark Templar ship like the Void Seeker) and a low tier AOE ground unit that is slow but deals high damage to light units (mini reavers?). Terran: A mid-tier AOE anti-air air unit (Valks!) and a mid-tier all purpose-combat walker (similar to Goliaths). Zerg: A powerful suicidal air unit (Scourge return!) and a tier 2 caster that specializes in killing other casters. | ||
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Eknoid4
United States902 Posts
On July 05 2011 03:00 BronzeKnee wrote: Keep in mind that in previous Blizzard expansions (BW and TFT) they have always added 1 air unit and 1 ground units per race. So I expect 1 new ground and 1 new air unit per race for multiplayer. Those games only had 1 expansion each. This one has two. | ||
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
On July 05 2011 03:05 Eknoid4 wrote: Those games only had 1 expansion each. This one has two. So one ground/air unit? Sounds kinda boring then..and I heard they may take out some units too. If the current units are reworked a bit, though, then i won't really have any problems. If there will be only one zerg unit, then it better not be some hero type mothership thing >_> | ||
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headbus
Canada173 Posts
On July 04 2011 23:00 DennyR wrote: I dont care wich units they bring they just have to redesign protoss completely. I dont think Protoss is imbalanced but it is too easy to play. You basically never have to worry about anything and in most cases protoss is the race that dictates the pace of the game. Espacially the colossus. I think the colossus is the most wrong unit ever in a rts. I mean on paper its great, but it basically is a siegetank that has more dps, is more mobile and you dont have to fucking micro it. Almost every timing in Protoss related matchups wrap around the colossus wich is just wrong and in combination with sentries on certain maps almost unbeatable if unscouted for 1min too long. So either cut the colossus out and replace it or change its movementspeed and give the unit a mechanic wich makes it fun and hard to play. As far as new units go, I want a new mech unit for terran. You are basically limited to 3 bad units and after siege tank nerf mech is pretty much useless. For Protoss I really want a harass unit. They simply have nothing but DTs wich are more like a gamble. For Zerg I really want to see something you can morph out of hydras. That would make hyrdas somewhat usefull and if colossi and tanks are out you can just morph them to whatever has more hp or is faster or even flies. How does a race that plays incredibly defensively because we have the most expensive units in the game and will never come out on top after trading armies control the pace of the game? I can think of one timing that wraps around a collosus in PvP, and its not really a timing, its just push out when/if you are ahead in a collosus count. I can however think of 4gate timings, phoenix timings, blink timings, dt timings ect ect. I agree though a protoss collosus doesn't require micro when you stim + 1a your entire terran army into a protoss ball simply to cry about how easy they are to play. You need to stop posting on TL. As for your insight on Zerg units. How would you feel if you scout HT's vs a protoss and proceed to get ghosts. Only to have those HT's morph into a collosus to counter your counter. That really rewards your opponent for countering you well. | ||
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
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Grr Arr Rawr
United States108 Posts
You could either have it where once you pick, that's it, or where you can change back and forth, but have to pay the associated cost and research time each time that you do - or possibly it costs more and takes longer to "switch" then it does to research initially.. | ||
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PraetorianX
Sweden780 Posts
On July 04 2011 23:18 ManicMarine wrote: What's with everyone voting for a protoss ground artillery unit? That's precisely what the collosus IS! A unit with 9 range and high splash DPS sounds like an artillery unit to me. Well, to be fair.. Compared to the 13 range of a Siege Tank, the Colossus is almost something of a melee unit. | ||
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