Prediction poll: What types of new units in HotS? - Page 16

On July 04 2011 09:08 IamTheArchitect wrote:
Wow. Every page I have looked on has several people saying, "Terran doesn't need anything, they're complete." However, the current state of the game reveals otherwise

Terran needs something lategame, whether it's a new unit or a reworking of the raven, battlecruiser or thor, because right now Terran is too dependent on risky harrass tactics and 1 or 2 base plays. I don't like doing a 2-base timing push every game but the fact of the matter is I always get smashed if I let the game get into a 4 base v 4 base situation vs. Zerg or Protoss. Terran needs something better to go for in macro games.

Right now Zerg seems the most complete, their strategies are pretty well mapped out and almost all of their units have roles, but it's the Zerg expansion so obviously something will change.

Protoss air seems kinda underused right now except in specific circumstances. Maybe that oughta change.

On July 04 2011 08:15 UnLiquidNecros wrote:


You gotta be f**king kidding me. Play toss then speak.

It seems like everyone just want to have another broodwar. I didn't play broodwar, but i will admit that the current game feels a lot like building a bunch of units and clashing them into each other and see the outcome, with some fiffling to it with attacks in multiple places and some harassment. Too many armies can just A move, though still there is quite some micro involved. I'd say it would be nice to see something that Terran would find interesting to use in PvT for example, that isnt just marine marauder stim attack, because that was one of the first things in this game i found way too silly.
(Yeah this is starting to sound like a whining post for the current game).
Stim, A move with MM and kite is just way too easy compared to placing forcefields correctly etc.

So my wish for HoTS would be more micro intensive gameplay and some NEW interesting units, and not another broodwar, but something that would be as epic, in a different way.

On July 04 2011 11:28 NgrySqrrl wrote:


I think you just inadvertently agreed with this guy. he said that the colossus requires little micro, which you disagreed with and then talk about how this game is just a-moving into a clash. that's the part that makes colossus boring, even though their concept seems interesting. maybe give them a charge-up attack like the voidray, except they can't be moving to charge?

in any case as a zerg player, i would like to see the tiers of the hydra and the roach swapped (nerfed and buffed accordingly) and something in hive tech that hits air. i think that people are putting too much value in a zerg siege unit because of the trouble that tanks and colossi give them, but making the roach a real tanking unit and making hydras a little more disposable would mitigate a lot of the damage those units cause. something to help early-game scouting would be awesome as well, maybe like the owl that the PotM in WC3 could fire out to gain intel could be a spell the queen could cast. you would sacrifice a larva spit or creep tumor to scout your enemy, seems like a fair trade (ie. scans over mules).

terran could really use the predator as a playable unit to tank some front-line damage and could probably do without hunter-seeker missile. maybe change it into some kind of temporary stationary detector (kind of like the auto-turret, except it doesn't attack) or a turret that slows units within it's radius.

protoss could really use some viable anti-air, so maybe a robo unit that is strickly AA and can attack one unit with one powerful attack or multiple units at once with a weaker attack that you could toggle. or give this ability to the immortal and make it stronger (which i think it needs) and cost more. also, rework the carrier. it makes me so sad that the ship that took out the overmind, once a fucking robotic beehive that shoots rabid hornets at their enemies has devolved into a floating hunk of meat that has these little flies looping around it that can be swatted down because they're just more annoying than anything.

On July 04 2011 11:52 sluggaslamoo wrote:


The problem with "tanking" units is they add nothing to the game, they are boring a-move units. Dragoons were really the only unit like this, but thats ok because it fitted the theme of protoss, blue goo, and the dynamics of the other races like spider-mines and dark swarm made it interesting. Lurkers are much more useful against the protoss deathball than Roaches. Isn't it funny how the roach is such a powerful unit yet somehow sucks in so many situations, it simply doesn't synergise well with zerg because it is basically a dragoon. So then they gave Terran a dragoon with stim to counter this zerg dragoon, but now that's too strong against protoss, so protoss gets a dragoon that tanks more damage and deals 60 damage to armored. Stupid.

The only thing that would balance PvZ late game is scourge and lurkers, any ranged unit that tanks damage is useless against colossus and void-rays because of splash and charge-up. Lurkers will clean up the protoss army before it can do enough damage with its deathball, this means toss can't move around the map with this huge ball of death, and instead has to play harass and multi-pronged attacks.

The biggest problem with AA units in SC2 is that they are on the ground. Marines, Thors, Stalkers, etc. The phoenix is really bad at AA until you have a TON of them because they don't have splash and mutas scale in damage. Protoss and Terran really need an AA only Air-Unit, 12 mutas are ok, but seeing 100 mutas fly around the map is both really annoying and boring to watch.

On July 04 2011 12:13 L3gendary wrote:
I was going to make a long post but then I realized I just want them to remove most of the new sc2 units and replace them with their bw counter parts.

On July 04 2011 12:15 Eknoid4 wrote:

You should probably just go play brood war then if you can't handle a new game lol

On July 04 2011 12:08 NgrySqrrl wrote:


i agree with your statement about the roach not feeling very "zerg-y", but i would venture to say that zerg is played differently in SC2 than it is in BW. blizzard seems to have focused more on the macro abilities instead of zerg being "reactive". i think the roach's current abilities combined with more life/damage would definitely give it lurker-like stopping ability. imagine a control group of roaches sitting for an ambush, except if you get detected, you could just move away while burrowed. i dunno, maybe give them a splash attack to make them more effective but make them cost more food? i feel like the roach is such an interesting unit but seems to be lacking a niche. don't get me wrong - i miss the lurker too, but they had them in the alpha and took them out because of the way they played out. that had to be for a reason, right?

protoss has phoenixes, which anyone knows rule against mutas and banshees. if carriers were a more viable option like i think should happen, maybe people would be more apt to go stargate tech making phoenixes much easier to get?

i agree that terran could use a flying AA unit completely, though. just make the missile turrets weaker or mutas will be useless against terran.

On July 04 2011 09:34 sluggaslamoo wrote:
Also whats kind of interesting is that none of the races really feel right and is expressed in the poll.

Terran players want things that lock down an area and blow up everything, hence their desire to play mech with tanks, goliaths, vultures and spidermines. MMM doesn't feel like Terran at all, it feels like a weird combination of Protoss and Zerg.

Tanks and Vultures kill so much stuff so quickly, however they are also really really hard to control, you always have to be "positioned" to output maximum damage. Terrans love this, controlling territory and saying "you may not pass". Very Terran'y, this was how Terran was originally designed. Flash is the personification of this, locking down his 3 early bases and then pushing out and simultaneously blowing up 7 of Kal's bases.

Protoss players want things that allow you to be cunning/unexpected in battle, there is a reason Protoss was the most hated race by Idra/Artosis, even Idra tohught Protoss wasn't "as bad" as it was in BW. Even Boxers first race was Protoss. Stork is the personification of this, extremely low apm, and using his superior unit control and trickery to take down his opponents. A lot of PvT involves catching Terran off-guard.

Sniping your first tank and dealing with repairing your bunker for another hour, flanking your unsieged tanks and areas you forgot to mine, map hacks with observers, a reaver that kills everything and can't die, speedlots dragging mines into your own army, freezing your army and recalling the army somewhere else, cloaked units, tech switch to 4 stargate carriers, making their own siege tanks and recalling them into your base.

Overall just being really fucking annoying. A lot of Terran losses are because of "wtf is this shit?!" moments when Toss just comes out of the blue with a huge army and a ton of storms/stasis.

Zerg in SC2 is completely the opposite of what it should be in Starcraft. Zerg was never a "sit back and macro" race, its like the gameplay of Terran only you can't defend, its a bit ridiculous. Zerg was a hyper aggressive race where you make tonnes of units and attack and kill everything at any stage in the game. Jaedong is the personification of this, his rage-mode glare, he never thinks twice about anything, if he sees any vulnerability he will destroy you without mercy. Most all-in players like July, Shine and Kwanro played Zerg, and for a good reason.

All zerg units were overpowered for their cost, mass hydra would cost-efficiently kill anything except against spell-casters or siege units, Lurkers were invisible and killed everything on the ground, lings could cost-efficiently kill anything at most stages of the game, scourge are air-banelings that did 110 damage, ultralisks were 200 minerals and gas and only 4 supply and were not rendered useless by marauders, defilers rendered any range unit practically useless and made a large area of units down to 1 health and had infinite energy.

The creep mechanic is the only thing I like about Zerg right now, spawn larvae and a harder to use and slower nydus means that Zerg never makes a ton of bases all over the map, seeing sauron zerg off 3 bases is not that interesting, but it also means Zerg can't be zergy at all or it would be imbalanced.

On July 04 2011 12:15 Eknoid4 wrote:

You should probably just go play brood war then if you can't handle a new game lol

On July 04 2011 12:26 L3gendary wrote:


Not sure what it has to do with the difficulty...sc2 is easier than bw. I just think some of the units are less interesting. Like colo vs reaver, helion vs vulture, mothership vs arbiter, corrupter vs scourge, roach/bane vs lurker (ok banelings are fun but mostly when they're burrowed or dropped).

On July 04 2011 12:33 Eknoid4 wrote:

Maybe you should read the post I quoted, then