• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 00:14
CET 06:14
KST 14:14
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13
Community News
[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation12Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7
StarCraft 2
General
Zerg is losing its identity in StarCraft 2 Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 3 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ What happened to TvZ on Retro? SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
PvZ map balance Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers How to stay on top of macro?
Other Games
General Games
Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Clair Obscur - Expedition 33
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2018 users

ESL announces Extreme Masters VI (IEM) - Page 21

Forum Index > SC2 General
661 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 19 20 21 22 23 34 Next All
This isn't going to turn into another LoL vs (all other games apparently) thread. You can speak your mind about the selection of games but keep it civil.
Akasha
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States261 Posts
June 27 2011 23:59 GMT
#401
It is really unfortunate that QL has been removed. I sort of blame idSoftware for not properly promoting their game. At the time it was free(some items are free and others are premium based), browser based, and had matchmaking for several different game types.

Maybe this is the kick in the ass id needs to have to promote their game or maybe they simply just don't care...
Writer
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-28 00:09:52
June 28 2011 00:00 GMT
#402
On June 28 2011 08:40 BasedSwag wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2011 08:32 oniman999 wrote:
On June 28 2011 08:06 BasedSwag wrote:
On June 28 2011 07:57 Shikyo wrote:


This as a counterargument to LoL taking no skill. Easy to pick up doesn't mean easy all the way...

But yeah just silly sigh, just accept it, I still think it's a good thing for esports no matter what.


Uh, all he did was hit R and right click a few times.. What's impressive about that?

You probably need about 30APM to play LoL at the highest level, it's not a very skillful game.. the only real skill required is having decent coordination in your team, the actual game is very easy to play.


Chess must not be very competitive either, in fact the better players usually have LOWER apm than the casual players. Also, football (American) must not be very competitive either. They stand around for about 20- 30 seconds and pick out their play, then wait about another 5 seconds waiting to snap and calling audibles. Only then do they execute about a 10 second play. So much time spent not doing anything! Also in football, all the guy does is throw the ball. How hard is that? I can throw a ball! I can even but a tight spiral on it!

Or maybe since LoL is slower paced than SC it just doesn't require constant keyboard inputs. LoL is more about picking a character to perform a certain role, and acquiring the correct equipment to suit that role. That role also should change depending on the opposing team's composition and what items they select.

I think the problem we as SC players have with something like LoL is that it's team based compared to SC which is individual competition. I hear a lot of "LoL isn't very balanced!" and I think the idea behind that is that people don't like the idea that in a 1v1 battle some champions have a blatant advantage over others. LoL isn't about 1v1 fights or anything like that, like I recently started playing a support character. I usually end up with 2 kills at most by the end of a game, but my teammates are averaging many more kills than before I started playing an assist based character.

Sorry for all the huge long winded rant post, but I think the main reason for the hate towards LoL is a lack of understanding. I will admit, I play both it and SC2 often (not good at either of them lol) and i do think SC2 requires more skill. However, that doesn't mean I don't see LoL as extremely skill dependent. It's just a different type of skill.


Actually the best players have high APM in Chess, because they play blitz chess.

Also League of Legends has a lot of casualized aspects compared with DoTA and even HoN that make the game a lot easier to play, e.g. no denying, towers hit harder, you can leave your lane and back without much consequence, people generally die slower, small mistakes don't cost you the game, etc

If you leave your lane and back for no reason you lose the tower. People die slower if you build tanky, buyt you can get oneshot if you don't get tanky items(In this respect people actually die faster than in DotA or HoN). Oh, and Blitz chess makes you have like 20-30 apm.

Have you played LoL?

Oh and I never watch counterstrike and actually prefer both Quake live and WoW over it, but I'm really happy about both SC2 and LoL.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
ReaperX
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Hong Kong1758 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-28 00:04:34
June 28 2011 00:01 GMT
#403
Riot must be pouring all their money for the replacement of QL, which is a sad thing, really. Quake Live in my opinion is so much better to watch in an ESPORTS tournament. I've played LoL before, and it's amazing how little APM you need or skill you need at the game to win games. The only neccesary thing is audio chat with your teammates so you know what to do with your teammates and a basic understanding of the game's characters and abilities. But ok, I guess this will make some people happy..

Artosis : Clide. idrA : Shut up.
mikyaJ
Profile Joined April 2011
1834 Posts
June 28 2011 00:09 GMT
#404
On June 28 2011 09:01 ReaperX wrote:
Riot must be pouring all their money for the replacement of QL, which is a sad thing, really. Quake Live in my opinion is so much better to watch in an ESPORTS tournament. I've played LoL before, and it's amazing how little APM you need or skill you need at the game to win games. The only neccesary thing is audio chat with your teammates so you know what to do with your teammates and a basic understanding of the game's characters and abilities. But ok, I guess this will make some people happy..


They don't really need to. Their Dream Hack numbers speak for themself. They used to. Maybe they still do though, but they have achieved popularity by now.
MKP||TSL
Scribble
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
2077 Posts
June 28 2011 00:09 GMT
#405
On June 28 2011 08:45 velocityqt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2011 07:57 Shikyo wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz1wy9JTi6I

This as a counterargument to LoL taking no skill. Easy to pick up doesn't mean easy all the way...

But yeah just silly sigh, just accept it, I still think it's a good thing for esports no matter what.

this vid doesnt impress me, theres nothing special average joe cant do, when u watch programers playing QL/BW ur always like: wow theres no way in milion years i will be able to do that, so much respect for those guys putting so much time and effort into mastering the game which is very challanging to the point it looks like they are bending the rules, very high skill ceiling is actually the reason why i called it e-Sport at the first place.
Pretty sad to see those hardcore games precessors and creators of e-gaming getting replaced by dumbed down noob friendly games in the name of esports where in fact theres not so much sport left in them.


I've watched footage of games I don't play and thought, "I can do that, that doesn't look that hard." That doesn't mean I was right.

I've also said that about watching games I have experience with, specifically BW and Street Fighter. Right before being proven wrong by actually trying whatever I saw.

Maybe you should try it? If it's so easy, put a team together. Why not? It should be easy money...right?

You don't have to be impressed by watching a pro play, but if you're going to dismiss something as being "so easy anyone can do it," be prepared to put up or shut up.
Shiragaku
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Hong Kong4308 Posts
June 28 2011 00:12 GMT
#406
On June 28 2011 09:01 ReaperX wrote:
Riot must be pouring all their money for the replacement of QL, which is a sad thing, really. Quake Live in my opinion is so much better to watch in an ESPORTS tournament. I've played LoL before, and it's amazing how little APM you need or skill you need at the game to win games. The only neccesary thing is audio chat with your teammates so you know what to do with your teammates and a basic understanding of the game's characters and abilities. But ok, I guess this will make some people happy..


Then by such logic, there should be very little competition which LoL has plenty of.

But interesting fact about LoL...it is a very easy game to pick up, but real fucking hard to master. Just like chess. It is a fact that LoL is incredibly competitive and very good tournament game, but whether it is exciting to watch is another story.
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-28 00:19:28
June 28 2011 00:14 GMT
#407
On June 28 2011 08:45 velocityqt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2011 07:57 Shikyo wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz1wy9JTi6I

This as a counterargument to LoL taking no skill. Easy to pick up doesn't mean easy all the way...

But yeah just silly sigh, just accept it, I still think it's a good thing for esports no matter what.

this vid doesnt impress me theres nothing special average joe cant do, when u watch programers playing QL/BW ur always like: wow theres no way in milion years i will be able to do that, so much respect for those guys putting alot of time and effort into mastering the game which is very challanging to the point it looks like they are bending the rules, very high skill ceiling is actually the reason why i called it e-Sport at the first place.
Pretty sad to see those hardcore games precessors and creators of e-gaming getting replaced by dumbed down noob friendly games in the name of esports when in fact theres not so much sport left in them.

I've also watched Flash play SCBW and say "That's not hard to do, I can do that" and I can understand perfectly how to do it etc but I still can't do it.

And for some reason only the people who play LoL are super impressed and the people who've never played the game say it's really easy. That makes sense..?

EDIT: So why it's impressive is first of all, it's 1v2 towerdive and second, you wouldn't think to towerdive a Jarvan with an alistar closeby, you blink to the minion that gives Mark barely enough range to hit him(And he used this skill instantly after without even stopping moving and at barely max range, if he had to blink again he wouldn't have had one left for the final escape as they take 20 seconds to get back), he also did it so quickly that the Jarvan didn't have proper time to react, any slower and he could have flag pulled himself to safety.

After that though, it's gamesense that he can go to the top brush and not try to run another way or something as he knew the Alistar was incoming instead of running straight into him or something. He also knew the exact range of Alistars headbutt and hence at that exact timing did his blink so that they'd essentially swap places. And the end was pretty simple.

I'm not sure why the person is regarded as by far the best Akali player in the world and why everyone thinks that no one can do similiar moves... because every LoL player is a noob? That'd just be an extremely naive statement to make.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
ThaZenith
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada3116 Posts
June 28 2011 00:15 GMT
#408
I remember the quake live stream having something like 900 viewers. Not a number they'd want to carry around, so it makes sense to replace.

LoL on the other hand had regular 100k+ viewing audiences, due to actual players being routed from the game to the tournament. There's no reason that Riot won't do the same again, so to put LoL in the roster guarantees a ton more viewers than quake live could ever get.

Combine
Profile Joined July 2010
United States812 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-28 00:25:32
June 28 2011 00:21 GMT
#409
Sad to see quake go Always watched it along with sc2, and it's one of the few remaining FPS games that are good to spectate. Every time I've watched it it has impressed me.

You would think that ESL would at least wait till DOTA 2 to see how that turns out. LoL seems to lack a lot of stuff for spectating, ie. spectator mode/replays/pause feature etc. Seems Riot had the money and views to get the foot in the door. And I'm not so sure all those viewers will be consistent watchers, Quake has had a dedicated scene for over 15 years, and LoL is pretty new and I'm not sure of the longevity of it.

MOBA games in general are kind of hard to spectate, but I would want to wait and see which comes out on top as a better esport game.
(ಥ_ಥ)
Brees
Profile Joined January 2010
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
June 28 2011 00:22 GMT
#410
should have got rid of counterstrike over quake live, god that game is boring.
Brees on in
carloselcoco
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2302 Posts
June 28 2011 00:24 GMT
#411
One of the five cointries has to be the US!!! :D
http://www.twitch.tv/carloselcoco/b/296431601 <------Suscribe! Casts in Spanish :) |||| http://www.twitch.tv/carloselcoco/b/300285215<----- CSL: Before Sunday! Episode 3!
Dird
Profile Joined October 2008
United Kingdom18 Posts
June 28 2011 00:27 GMT
#412
On June 28 2011 09:22 Brees wrote:
should have got rid of counterstrike over quake live, god that game is boring.


It's awesome. The casters at DH were so OMFGterrible though...I wanted to watch the matches but I just couldn't they were way worse than day9
..
Ghola
Profile Joined March 2011
United States55 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-28 00:35:27
June 28 2011 00:34 GMT
#413
I was always under the impression that LOL was more a team game that you dick around in to pass the time. The difference in skill between players is pretty much negligible.
Monsty
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada230 Posts
June 28 2011 00:37 GMT
#414
On June 28 2011 09:34 Ghola wrote:
I was always under the impression that LOL was more a team game that you dick around in to pass the time. The difference in skill between players is pretty much negligible in that game.


I would have to disagree with you here. LoL is a lot more steep than a lot of people would imagine.

However! I also am extremely disappointed that they chose LoL over Quake Live. Quake Live is something I'm always clearly pumped for, while LoL seems (at least to me) more enjoyable when you're in the driver seat. I'm saddened that they sacrificed a really skill based game to gain stream viewers thanks to its huge presence at Dreamhack.
No one is taller than the last man standing.
Elefanto
Profile Joined May 2010
Switzerland3584 Posts
June 28 2011 00:39 GMT
#415
I always loved to watch quake, was super impressed by the top players.
their aim, movement, how they remember the cooldowns of armors etc.

You didn't have to understand the game or played before to know
how difficult it is to pull the stuff they do.
I'm sad
wat
DamnCats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1472 Posts
June 28 2011 00:41 GMT
#416
On June 28 2011 09:39 Elefanto wrote:
I always loved to watch quake, was super impressed by the top players.
their aim, movement, how they remember the cooldowns of armors etc.

You didn't have to understand the game or played before to know
how difficult it is to pull the stuff they do.
I'm sad


Indeed, watching someone who is masterful at QL like Cooller is just fucking amazing. So gd impressive.
Disciples of a god, that neither lives nor breathes.
mordk
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Chile8385 Posts
June 28 2011 00:42 GMT
#417
I've played all three of them, and can safely say that the skillcap for LoL < HoN <<<< DotA

I just wish DotA 2 will come soon, that way we'll have the real thing with a modern day interface. I've also watched streams of all 3 games, and without a doubt the most epic and impressive skill is seen in DotA.

VP back in the days... MYM... DTS... EHOME... Deity... LGD.. incredible stuff going on there. The big problem for DotA is actually the incredibly steep learning curve and the asshole community, if icefrog and valve can fix that without dumbing the game down, they'll have a winner.
bN`
Profile Joined May 2009
Slovenia504 Posts
June 28 2011 00:55 GMT
#418
Really sad to see QL dropped. There were rumours about it after last world champion ships but I always hoped they'd work it out. Especially now with DH having the first TDM tournament which was pretty awesome aswell

"It's just a ride." - Bill Hicks
Hoon
Profile Joined December 2010
Brazil891 Posts
June 28 2011 00:58 GMT
#419
On June 28 2011 09:42 mordk wrote:
I've played all three of them, and can safely say that the skillcap for LoL < HoN <<<< DotA

I just wish DotA 2 will come soon, that way we'll have the real thing with a modern day interface. I've also watched streams of all 3 games, and without a doubt the most epic and impressive skill is seen in DotA.

VP back in the days... MYM... DTS... EHOME... Deity... LGD.. incredible stuff going on there. The big problem for DotA is actually the incredibly steep learning curve and the asshole community, if icefrog and valve can fix that without dumbing the game down, they'll have a winner.

DotA 2 will kill LoL, HoN and vanilla DotA. I can guarantee.
Yeah, I agree that DotA has the world community out there, and I don't think that DotA 2 or Valve will fix it. <_<
I hope Valve adds a decent mmr system, so people play with those with the same skill level as they learn how to master the game.

Oh, and DotA 2 will be coming out by the end of this year. :D
SEn Fanclub: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=170834
SoJu.WeRRa
Profile Joined June 2010
Korea (South)820 Posts
June 28 2011 01:06 GMT
#420
No Quake and LoL instead? What a joke...
나를 찢어갈겨이씨발놈아왜나를미치게만들어니가뭘아는데?
Prev 1 19 20 21 22 23 34 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The PiG Daily
20:30
Best Games of SC
Serral vs Clem
Solar vs Cure
Serral vs Clem
Reynor vs GuMiho
herO vs Cure
LiquipediaDiscussion
OSC
19:00
Masters Cup #150: Group B
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 213
StarCraft: Brood War
Leta 311
yabsab 167
Bale 11
Dota 2
monkeys_forever515
NeuroSwarm99
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 630
Other Games
summit1g13831
WinterStarcraft358
ViBE197
Fuzer 180
Mew2King68
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick577
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 26
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt308
Other Games
• Scarra881
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4h 46m
RSL Revival
4h 46m
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
6h 46m
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs TBD
WardiTV Korean Royale
6h 46m
BSL 21
14h 46m
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
IPSL
14h 46m
Dewalt vs WolFix
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
17h 46m
Wardi Open
1d 6h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 11h
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
[ Show More ]
BSL: GosuLeague
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
BSL: GosuLeague
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
IPSL
6 days
Julia vs Artosis
JDConan vs DragOn
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-14
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.