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On June 26 2011 12:24 Fianchetto wrote:
time for foreigners to actually start practicing i guess?
Yep. The foreign scene won't get better if we exclude koreans and "throw money" at some pros so that they can make a good living. They will only get more lazy then.
Also the money to fund team houses comes from the teams not the players. So teams need money => need sponsors => sponsors need attention => attention is apparantly generated by tournaments with koreans.
So koreans will help us grow esports, get funding and challenge the players.
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Ya honestly the best players deserve prize money and if they are Korean then what does it matter?
If foreigners are losing then that means they need to practice more, because clearly the Koreans are putting more time into the game.
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I want to see the best players so yes Koreans are definitely welcome to participate in foreign online tournaments.
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Foreign players should be held to a higher standard. I don't watch games between, say, Moman and coLSteak (I have nothing against them, they're just two lower-level players) because I know I'm not watching the best. One player might win because the other player messed up big-time, and I don't want to see someone win because the other person gave them that win.
So I don't mind seeing Koreans in foreign tournaments. If this motivates foreigners to practice harder, then I'd like to see that. For example, today in the Homestory Cup we saw two of the best protosses - Naniwa and MC - go at it, and Naniwa won not because MC made some huge error, but because he played better than MC without MC screwing up.
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Foreigners have to improve, simple as that. There are more foreigners playing and they have a better monetary incentive. The only thing that seperates them from the koreans is laziness and a desire to get easy money instead of becoming the best.
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i noticed how just the other two categories got more votes when the xenophobic rednecks come out to play during the evening hours in north america. it was at 90+% earlier.
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On June 26 2011 07:13 iYiYi wrote:
NA and EU games are so boring to watch. They just mass units when any Korean timing would stomp them. The more Koreans the better, give them all a shot at ,qualifying!
That is an unbelievably ridiculous blanket statement that is based nowhere in fact or reality.
i noticed how just the other two categories got more votes when the xenophobic rednecks come out to play during the evening hours in north america. it was at 90+% earlier.
I'm not even quite sure how to respond to this, regional qualifiers make a lot of sense, I like the idea of having representatives from each region at a tournament and seeing who can represent there region the best. Furthermore it makes practical sense, as everyone would compete in the qualifier from their respective region, instead of asking players to try to obtain accounts for the different regions if they want to participate, (to be perfectly clear, I am referring to qualifiers for larger events, not tournaments in general.) and giving an unfair advantage to players who are able to play on there own server as they would have much less lag than players trying to play from different regions.
Calling everyone who has a differing opinion than yours a "xenophobic redneck" is a ludicrous generalization that no where near reflects my reasons for preferring regional qualifiers, get off your damn high horse and stop putting people down who have a different opinion than yours.
My own opinion, is that Koreans in foreigner events is badly needed to motivate and encourage foreigner teams and players to step up their games and get even more serious about this.
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TLADT24920 Posts
Global tournaments FTW! As mentioned, the scenes will grow and its much better this way in order to measure progress 
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Best players deserve to win.
End of story really. If you want to live a life like a Korean progamer, you better work like one.
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Yes!! MOAR KOREANS!!!
The one thing this should do most is set a fire to all the pros outside of korea that they need to up their training (though this has probably happened already. They should never be content with their skill level and should always be looking to further themselves.
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On June 26 2011 13:35 Rasun wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 07:13 iYiYi wrote:
NA and EU games are so boring to watch. They just mass units when any Korean timing would stomp them. The more Koreans the better, give them all a shot at qualifying! That is an unbelievably ridiculous blanket statement that is based nowhere in fact or reality.
It is pretty true. All the time you see a foreigner back off and go into "macro mode" against another player whereas a player like July or MC would go "oh, that's what you have? well, I guess I'll just kill you with a perfectly executed timing push." You can see games like MC v Cloud where MC three gate expands and then just goes kill him with sentries, I can think of very few foreign protoss who would do that. Most foreigner pros seem to have little idea about strict specific timings except some special cases like IdrA and Socke who seem to have a very analytical approach to the ggame.
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On June 26 2011 11:42 sitromit wrote:
People say there's no racism etc, but if you look at the results of these tournaments, EU players are also dominating NA players pretty hard, yet you don't see anyone complaining about it, asking whether we should ban Europeans from entering...
When Koreans dominate, it becomes a problem suddenly.. Interesting, no?
I want to see the best players, and the most interesting games. If Koreans are the best, then the more of them enter tournaments, the better...
Yes, I'm totally racist.
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On June 26 2011 13:41 Heavenly wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 13:35 Rasun wrote:On June 26 2011 07:13 iYiYi wrote:
NA and EU games are so boring to watch. They just mass units when any Korean timing would stomp them. The more Koreans the better, give them all a shot at qualifying! That is an unbelievably ridiculous blanket statement that is based nowhere in fact or reality. It is pretty true. All the time you see a foreigner back off and go into "macro mode" against another player whereas a player like July or MC would go "oh, that's what you have? well, I guess I'll just kill you with a perfectly executed timing push." You can see games like MC v Cloud where MC three gate expands and then just goes kill him with sentries, I can think of very few foreign protoss who would do that. Most foreigner pros seem to have little idea about strict specific timings except some special cases like IdrA and Socke who seem to have a very analytical approach to the ggame.
Ok a statement such as "For the most part, with some major exceptions, Korean players in general seem to have a wider array of refined timings" would be an acceptable and accurate statement, his was definitely not.
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I have no such patriotic feelings to cheer for foreigners or koreans. The best should win, not "the best foreigner", I cheer for who I want to, and so I could care less if Koreans won every tournament from now till the end of sc2.
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Every progamer speaks about love for the game. Given this, no one should be able to say that tournaments should be limited to only players of a certain region. If a tournament has decided that it can accomodate players from all regions, then all able players should compete. If the top placing competitiors in that tournament happen to be of a certain region, so be it.
Koreans practice more than foreigners, this is pretty much uncontested. Now that they're dominating tournaments organized by foreigners, this should be an eye opener to foreign progamers. If they truly love the game and are competitors, then they will want to become better. Anyone that says Korean dominance hurts eSports is naive and possibly too delusional about the skill level of their favorite players. We've already seen the initiation of a few progaming houses outside of Korea. Foreigners obviously want to use the Korean model of training. eSports isn't getting derailed anytime soon because progamers are becoming discouraged by Korean dominance.
A great majority of the foreign progamers that they welcome fiercer competition. Naniwa has said that the harder the opponent, the better.
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One problem I foresee is if Korean players begin to dominate foreign tournaments en masse, sponsors may be less likely to back teams or tournaments, which would be a devastating blow for both scenes.
Fewer tournaments in the West = less incentive for foreigners to work as hard (think BW scenario). Meanwhile, Koreans are stuck with just the GSL, which really isn't enough to support their scene alone.
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I support anyone and everyone regardless of nationality, to participate in tournaments. As long as they have the skill and luck to get up the brackets, its fair game.
I see this as a good thing in two ways, we get to see top tier play more often in these tournaments, and I as a spectator want to see the best play. The other thing is not only motivation for the non-Korean players, but actual Korean strategy leaking into the foreigner's game. I believe that even though Korean's and non-Korean's played the same game, there was that little something that brought Korean players over the edge. As Korean's and non-Korean's rarely played each other before, this is a GREAT opportunity for the non-Korean players to learn.
The only issue I can see with this is, alot of non-Korean players losing motivation if Korean's dominate hard. But I trust that the non-Korean players will instead step up there game.
Korean's or non-Korean's, we are all human. The only thing that is different is the environment we live in.
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If foreigners can't keep up, that's their own fault.
Practice more!
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On June 26 2011 15:13 rift wrote:
One problem I foresee is if Korean players begin to dominate foreign tournaments en masse, sponsors may be less likely to back tournaments, which would be a devastating blow for both scenes.
Fewer tournaments in the West = less incentive for foreigners to work as hard (think BW scenario). Meanwhile, Koreans are stuck with just the GSL, which really isn't enough to support their scene alone.
Why would sponsors stop backing tournaments? I mean I could understand them not backing foreigner teams so much if it comes to that but why no tournaments? As long as people are watching them I don't see a reason for that
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Listen to what Catz has to say. A korean invasion of foreign online tournaments will ruin the last route by which upcoming foreigners can make a name for themselves. If all tournaments are just full of Koreans who already have the infrastructure and society set up around growing starcraft, then the foreign scene will never be able to reach the same level as the korean scene. Korea's success in E-Sports is largely due to its national support for the players. If koreans begin to win foreign tournaments and take all the prize money then foreigners will never have the ability to achieve the success that koreans have. Foreigners need that korean free competition in order to have motivation to improve and better themselves as players, otherwise the already established Korean scene will foreer dominate the slowly expanding foreign scene.
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EPT
