|
On June 26 2011 03:55 Nagisa. wrote:
just as we don't treat girls or other ethnicities with disrespect we shouldn't go out of our way to flame kids who don't know better. Based on this post, if I didn't tell you that I was 13, would you be able to tell?
Everyone ravels at Pokebunny with words such as, a child prodigy, amazing, how can you do this at such a young age, and yet when ever another "child prodigy" tries to step in the scene hes immediately shot down.
I'll leave you with the, Why do kids get the hate? question that I started it all off with.
We don't treat other ethnicity's or women with respect, and the answer to why that is, is the answer to why we don't treat kids with respect.
No one calls Pokebunny amazing and a child prodigy.
As for why most teams or tournaments don't accept you, no one wants to talk about how middle school or even highschool is going (if they're 18+). If they don't want you in the group, don't think you're different and more mature, because you're not. I used to think I was, but I really wasn't. And when you are 18+ and look for a group, you won't want people < 16 or 18 or whatever either.
Just deal with it and don't mention your age. If you become part of a group and no one wants you out anyways, they won't care how old you are.
|
after reading the post i get the impression of someone who is "trying to hard to appear mature",
What i hate the most is when a 13 year old tries to say they are mature because its simply not true its literally impossible for a 13 year old to be mature as a person especially in this modern sheltered society typing well doesn't make you mature etc.. Just avoid it stating that you are 13 will just annoy people further, when i was -14 etc i was never keen to use a mic or share my age and i believe thats the best thing to do
|
I don't think its really hate, I just think that there are a lot of restrictions with non-adults signing contracts or winning prizes.
|
Edit - I didn't really read the OP (just the title) so this post is useless. Sorry guys >.>.
Edit 2 - Point I was making is that young age doesn't really matter in terms of Starcraft since at least they're in good physical shape (i.e. it's more impressive for a 40 year to be playing Starcraft professionally than a 14 year old for example).
I was replying and disagreeing to the jealous thing since most pro gamers (well Koreans) are around that age and it's more impressive for older people to obtain good results (30-40 for example) than younger due to younger players being in better physical shape usually.
On June 26 2011 08:35 tyCe wrote:
You can't legally contract, so you can't actually join a team unless the team decides to legally fulfill obligations one-way and run the risk of not being able to reap the benefits.
I don't know why people are unwilling to practise with you. It's probably a mix of prejudice and jealousy and a bit of humiliation sprinkled in.
Fun Fact - Flash was around 14 years old when he started Starcraft (or at least was invited to a team).
Fun Fact #2 - Flash is only 18 years old and is making around half a million dollars a year.
Basically age in the younger years do not matter too much in regards to Starcraft (it's when people get old and/or people who may risk getting injuries from just playing).
Though to be fair I do not think people should put their age in anyone's face [or well just reveal since I don't mean to sound like the OP did this or anything] (if they're young or old).
Just avoid it stating that you are 13 will just annoy people further, when i was -14 etc i was never keen to use a mic or share my age and i believe thats the best thing to do
Yeah agreed. Whether people intend to or not, it may be off putting sometimes.
I agree that it's not nice and people shouldn't be that way but best way is just to not reveal your age.
|
On June 26 2011 08:11 Darclite wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 07:58 vesicular wrote:On June 26 2011 07:45 Darclite wrote:
But shouldn't this be determined by his actual personality than some vague stereotype about 13 year olds? I dunno, should I have had to pay more for my insurance when I was younger because I was male and single? Why didn't they care about my personality and responsibility? So playing a computer game = paying for insurance. Got it. If you read my posts I said that I realize why legal and financial issues matter, I just didn't see why everyone felt he was too immature and wanted to attack his personality (I don't see how maturity affects your Starcraft skill level).
I was not attacking his immaturity, he brought up in the OP that he feels as he is very mature to his age, I simply said that our perceived maturity at young teenage doesn't usually look like that when we grow up and look back. I don't challenge his skill based off his age, but there are plenty practical reasons for teams to not want children in the team.
|
On June 26 2011 08:41 Goldfish wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 08:35 tyCe wrote:
You can't legally contract, so you can't actually join a team unless the team decides to legally fulfill obligations one-way and run the risk of not being able to reap the benefits.
I don't know why people are unwilling to practise with you. It's probably a mix of prejudice and jealousy and a bit of humiliation sprinkled in. Fun Fact - Flash was around 14 years old when he started Starcraft (or at least was invited to a team). Fun Fact #2 - Flash is only 18 years old and is making around half a million dollars a year.Though to be fair I do not think people should put their age in anyone's face [or well just reveal since I don't mean to sound like the OP did this or anything] (if they're young or old).
Fun fact #3, original poster is from the United States
Fun Fact #4, the United States has laws
|
On June 26 2011 04:50 Nagisa. wrote:
About the legality and stuff, this is probably the best point out there, and I have to say it's not exactly a hassle, if you were given a situation where you had a top 5 player but you wouldn't recruit him because he had to get his parents to sign his contracts. I don't think you'd deny it would you?
Are you a "top 5 player"? No, you're a "1400 Masters Terran player aspiring for a GSL win".
Sorry you're not that top5 player where teams could make an exception to deal with parents / legal issues .
So I dont really see why you try to form your argument about a "top 5 player". You're probably not the next Flash, you're probably not the next Baby, you're probably not the next Pokebunny.
If you are - show it on ladder and contact the teams you want to join with results which can back up your claim (show replays of you beating top players).
For tournaments & top teams it's about legal issues. And you're not good enough that people care about you. They dont see the need to research what exactly would be neccessary from a legal standpoint to have you participate in a tournament / play in a team (with tournaments).
Why should they pick you and not one of the many 1401 Master Terrans which are 18+?
Concerning other "fun" clans. They play for fun and dont think a 13yo fits into their ranks. Partly, because they respect the parents. Would your parents be ok with a team where people swear, make "inappropiate" jokes, and talk about 18+ movies/games all the time? Maybe your parents are, but since the people play for fun so it would mean work for them to check with your parents. Which means too much work for such a "fun" team.
|
On June 26 2011 08:41 Goldfish wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 08:35 tyCe wrote:
You can't legally contract, so you can't actually join a team unless the team decides to legally fulfill obligations one-way and run the risk of not being able to reap the benefits.
I don't know why people are unwilling to practise with you. It's probably a mix of prejudice and jealousy and a bit of humiliation sprinkled in. Fun Fact - Flash was around 14 years old when he started Starcraft (or at least was invited to a team). Fun Fact #2 - Flash is only 18 years old and is making around half a million dollars a year.Though to be fair I do not think people should put their age in anyone's face [or well just reveal since I don't mean to sound like the OP did this or anything] (if they're young or old).
And if OP is as skilled as Flash, I'm pretty sure a team will take him on and risk not having a two-way contract.
|
clearly not understanding rules is 1 reason ( hense the rage thread)
18+ understands common knowledge such as things like this, you cant sign a contract
you'll need babysitters at every event
personally i cant stand playing w/ or against children, its rather frustrating. xbox live ruined that for me.
just wait til ur 18, if ur even still into sc2 by then
|
On June 26 2011 08:43 holynorth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 08:41 Goldfish wrote:On June 26 2011 08:35 tyCe wrote:
You can't legally contract, so you can't actually join a team unless the team decides to legally fulfill obligations one-way and run the risk of not being able to reap the benefits.
I don't know why people are unwilling to practise with you. It's probably a mix of prejudice and jealousy and a bit of humiliation sprinkled in. Fun Fact - Flash was around 14 years old when he started Starcraft (or at least was invited to a team). Fun Fact #2 - Flash is only 18 years old and is making around half a million dollars a year.Though to be fair I do not think people should put their age in anyone's face [or well just reveal since I don't mean to sound like the OP did this or anything] (if they're young or old). And if OP is as skilled as Flash, I'm pretty sure a team will take him on and risk not having a two-way contract.
Actually I admit I didn't really bother reading the entire OP >.>, sorry about that to those who posted in response.
Edit - Also I wasn't using Flash's age as a "in your face" thing, I was responding to the reply where it said people would be jealous of age.
I was disagreeing to the jealous thing since most pro gamers (well Koreans) are around that age and it's more impressive for older people to obtain good results (30-40 for example) than younger due to younger players being in better physical shape usually.
|
Quick tangent. I think it applies quite well though .
There is a bureaucrat (higher than administrator) on Wikipedia who was only 13 years of age when he was accepted.
There are a few things that need to be taken into account though.
1) He's got a lot of shit for it, even though he's a really good 'crat.
2) He has no contractual obligations
3) It was only found out when he was 15, people would have had a cow if they didn't know.
4) He's not receiving any money for editing. So there is no contractual obligation. And no time obligations.
5) he's still regularly confronted about decisions based on age. In some cases it has founding, in others it doesn't. But I think the biggest thing to be taken from this is the fact that he acknowledges that in a way he deserves the extra scrutiny. That he is less stable, and that he's not being discriminated against. That's why he succeeds. Making age an issue always hurts the person whose age is used.
|
On June 26 2011 03:55 Nagisa. wrote:
Hi guys, my names Nagisa and I'm a 13 year old 1400 Masters Terran player aspiring for a GSL
If you get seriously good enough to be in this league, or good enough to be a pro at any rate, then just *do it.* If your parents support you in this endeavor from step one, I think you should be able to do pretty much everything you want to in this game.
As as has already been mentioned in this threat many times, the legal issues are just too vast and troublesome for most tournament organizers to deal with your age, thats just the reality of it. If you're that good and have full family support, you shouldn't have a problem.
Let me put it another way: How many times have you run into this so far - legitimately? How many times have you gone out of your way and done the leg work to try and overcome legal problems? Without real situations in which this has been a problem for you, you are just another 1400 Masters player who isn't relevant to the pro scene. No offense, hell, I'm a diamond player that'll likely never be as good as you, but when were talking about being a professional, well, its about the profession.
Its not about you being pretty good or even really good at the game, its about doing what you need to do to make it a profession, and at your age ANY profession you tried to enter would require an insane amount of paperwork and red tape to be worked around. This isn't a Starcraft related problem at the very core of it, its runs far deeper. The good news is: You can over come the red tape if you are serious about it. But making a thread on Team Liquid isn't your path to success.
|
On June 26 2011 08:42 daemir wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 08:11 Darclite wrote:On June 26 2011 07:58 vesicular wrote:On June 26 2011 07:45 Darclite wrote:
But shouldn't this be determined by his actual personality than some vague stereotype about 13 year olds? I dunno, should I have had to pay more for my insurance when I was younger because I was male and single? Why didn't they care about my personality and responsibility? So playing a computer game = paying for insurance. Got it. If you read my posts I said that I realize why legal and financial issues matter, I just didn't see why everyone felt he was too immature and wanted to attack his personality (I don't see how maturity affects your Starcraft skill level). I was not attacking his immaturity, he brought up in the OP that he feels as he is very mature to his age, I simply said that our perceived maturity at young teenage doesn't usually look like that when we grow up and look back. I don't challenge his skill based off his age, but there are plenty practical reasons for teams to not want children in the team.
Sorry, I was talking more about others attacking him than you. I only responded that way because it seemed like you oversimplified what I said.
|
On June 26 2011 03:55 Nagisa. wrote:
Disclaimer: I have made lots of mistakes in my past regarding my attitude, I've even gotten banned on TL for dis-respect, which I am currently trying to change.
Hi guys, my names Nagisa and I'm a 13 year old 1400 Masters Terran player aspiring for a GSL win, but I find it extremely interesting that most tournaments are 16+ or 18+, why? I have to go out of my way, talk to admins for 30 minutes to hours, wait for responses that don't come. I don't understand just because some of us are immature means that the rest of us have to suffer? I know plenty of 20 year old's that act MUCH more immature than I do. Oh and the best part being if anyone ever catches wind of me being 13, I get hounded on, my ignore list is becoming my best friend on SC2.
What I'm trying to say here is that, kids should be treated the same in the SC2 community, just as we don't treat girls or other ethnicities with disrespect we shouldn't go out of our way to flame kids who don't know better. Based on this post, if I didn't tell you that I was 13, would you be able to tell? I think a lot of people portray anyone under the age of 16 as someone who doesn't understand grammar, or puts A LOT of ^.^ ;D =) in every sentence.
Same thing with teams, I can't practice against anyone or join a team JUST BECAUSE I'm not 13, the common response is, "We don't want to take the risk." What risk? I don't see any harm in trying me out, but just because I'm a certain age means that I cant even TRY? My voice isn't that high, the problem here is that teenagers or people under 16 HAVE PROVEN - Gosu.Pokebunny that they can compete. (Much respect to you) Everyone ravels at Pokebunny with words such as, a child prodigy, amazing, how can you do this at such a young age, and yet when ever another "child prodigy" tries to step in the scene hes immediately shot down.
I am sorry if this is generalizing people, but this is what I have seen in my days of SC2 so thanks for reading guys and I hope you have a g'day.
I'll leave you with the, Why do kids get the hate? question that I started it all off with.
man you're missing out on the praise
"that 1400 masters kid is 13"
"what a baller"
hang in there. kids get hate because they're kids, it's called life  . no one will care about your age if you get really freakin good and if they ignore you for being 13(i think you're exagerating) then they're not good friends anyways. if you want to join a team they'll probably let you in if you prove that you're not a retard and you're really good. i
no one actually cares about your age that much lol. honestly it's not that big of a deal. in fact you shouldn't care either. honestly as long as your voice is somewhat low you can go as a 15-16 year old and you're fine. also YOU shouldn't care about your age. when you talk to a guy you really don't need to mention your age.
|
keep on practice, your time will come. anyway its just most teams understandably not want to go through the children-realted issues (theres many starting from legal stuff to dealing with parents and so on).
its either youd have need a parent being with you all the time or get a person who take legal responsibilitys and look out for you. up to your maturity i guess but its just noone want to deal with angry parents and the law if you fuck up, and also getting your old man traveling with you on the teams expenses just financially stupid until youre really a heavy top3 contender.
|
On June 26 2011 04:19 Oreo7 wrote:It's mostly a stereotype and it feels kind of discriminatory.
Let me put it this way:
When I was twenty and playing World of Warcraft, I made every single raid. I actually specifically arranged to have my shifts work around my raiding schedule, because I had that power. When I was seventeen, I was, if anything, more dedicated to playing the game. It drove me *insane* when I missed raids, but...I couldn't help it. If my parents decided we were going on a trip, it was trip time. If they had decided to disconnect my Internet, it would have been their choice. When I had supper out of the house, or a school club, or anything else, I didn't have a choice about what I dropped. It was the video games.
That may not be the case for you, but it is the case for the majority of people under eighteen. When I was leading raids in WoW, I basically looked for three things: Reliability, talent, and attitude, in that order. I could take someone who mouthed off and did a good job, as long as he was always there and he didn't go too far out of line. On the other hand, it didn't matter if they were the greatest person in the world and amazing at playing their class: If they couldn't make raids, they were useless to me.
I think that carries over to Starcraft quite nicely. It doesn't matter if you're amazing and you have a great attitude if they can't rely on you as a player in major tournaments. Unfortunately, your age definitely is enough to keep them from being able to rely on you.
As mentioned, you're not a legal adult. At thirteen, you have no transportation. There are huge issues involved with taking you to events. Any organizer who invites you is responsible for you, unless your parents are willing to go on these trips for you. (And if you want to be big in the pro scene, that means probably at least a weekend trip a month, some international.)
It doesn't matter how mature you are, and, believe me, it's never as mature as you think that you are. The problem is that the structure of our societies doesn't adapt itself well to having children playing in tournaments. It's not because of persecution, either. It's because the overwhelming majority could not handle it. Sorry.
I do not know any kids who would ask their parents permission to play in an sc2 tournament.
On June 26 2011 04:19 Oreo7 wrote:I do not know any kids who would ask their parents permission to play in an sc2 tournament.
Then they legally cannot agree to play in the tournament. Children are not able to enter into legal contracts without the consent of their guardians. Period. That's how it works.
On June 26 2011 04:23 SkySpy wrote:
Full well knowing that it's mother would never accept a tainted scent bird,
That's actually a myth. Most birds have a pretty crappy sense of smell, and research suggests that they do not reject chicks that have been touched by humans.
|
its strange that people are rude to you once they find out you're 13, what assholes yells at kids lol.. -_-
|
On June 26 2011 05:38 Nagisa. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 05:32 rushz0rz wrote:I'm a 13 year old 1400 Masters Terran player aspiring for a GSL win Please stay in school. Also, make it your priority. StarCraft should come second. Haha, thank you for worrying but I'm very dedicated to my studies, I took the SAT in 6th grade so I should be fine.
Sorry no offense, but that already comes off as very snobbish to me - its all about the image others perceive you with. If I told a kid to make sure he focuses on academics and he brushes me off with that sort of response? My immediate perception of him is that he's a kid who's full of himself. Is it justified or not? It doesn't matter - you need 'their' (ie organizers/clan leaders) help/support to getting into clans & tournaments, not the other way around. Sure there are tons of 18+ who act like 12yo's also, but as mentioned already they don't come with half the trouble with legal issue matters and such.
In the end, people just flat out don't like dealing with additional hassle especially when its something that comes with no certainty of a worthwhile payoff. Yes, you may or may not be an exception, but unless you have some incredibly unique skills and talent, its just not going to catch their attention - there are tons of kids who think they are special (not saying you aren't or anything), but isn't the case.
There's a reason why exceptions are called exceptions, because they are rare - they are indeed often overlooked because of generalization/stigma, but that's just the way life is, you can't expect people to be bothered to use their time to find out if you are different from your average peer group or not. So the risk, as you put it, is the higher probability of them that they feel they would be wasting their time; time is valuable after all. Its not fair, but life has never been fair, reality is harsh, the sooner you come to grips with that, the happier you'll be and you'll save yourself unnecessary frustration and time too (such as having to make this thread lol).
|
|
|
Its also because when tournaments hand out the prize money, they can't just hand it to a kid. Just enjoy being young cause you are gonna wish when your older and have to work for a living ur gonna miss it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
