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On June 26 2011 06:54 Strike_ wrote:
When I was 13 I also thought that I was extremely smart and mature for my age.
I wasn't.
QFT
I was mad that I wasn't allowed to vote (election) at that age, thought I was very mature, and got frustrated at age requirements. When you actually get older, you'll realize you weren't at all mature, I sure wasn't qualified to make an informed decision on a federal election. We were all your age, don't forget that.
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Others have covered the legal/financial issues, so I'll look at another aspect: Physical/Mental Capability.
Kids are still growing and when it comes to high-level sports, they simply lack the physical prowess to perform at the highest levels. The only sports I can immediately think of that people under 18 could actually compete at the highest levels on a consistent basis are:
-Women's Gymnastics
-Women's Figure Skating
-Women's Tennis (kinda)
-Women's Golf (?)
EVERY OTHER SPORT sees its best performances from people of adult age. Youngsters don't stand a chance in hell because sports generally require a high degree of physical prowess. Kids and young teens are still growing, and if they went up against full adults they would get destroyed.
Now SC2 isn't quite like something like Football or Basketball, but there is still a very high physical component to competing at the highest levels. I doubt any 13 year old could push out constant 400 APM (without spamming) for a BoX. Not to mention that at that age, your brain is still developing and hasn't reached its full potential. Basically youngsters would be physically and mentally outmatched in every game they play. This handicap is large enough that its extremely unlikely someone that's underage could make it to the top. Now, hypothetically there could be some freak of nature that has the physical and mental capabilities at that young age to compete with the best of the best. But it's probably more likely to be from women's SC2.
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Was likely the same for me in BW. As far as tours with prices are concerned (even like 10€) the tour hosts have to make sure that you're able to do online banking.
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When I was 13 I also thought that I was extremely smart and mature for my age.
I wasn't.
On June 26 2011 06:59 daemir wrote:
I know it's pretty tough at that age to put yourself in other's shoes, but we were that age at one point too, we were all very mature and bright people and all that.
10-15 years roll by and you look back and you'll notice things perhaps weren't quite like that.
Why is that relevant? Whether or not he is mature, and whether or not he thinks he's mature, the only thing that should bar him from a tournament are legal issues. Who cares what he's like in real life if he can get good results? Do we need to have each participant in a tournament take a personality test to evaluate their maturity?
Didn't Idra say something like "This isn't a dating show, it's a computer game. Personality shouldn't matter."
Everybody in this thread does realize we're just talking about a computer game right? Not sure how much life experience he needs to drop some marauders in his opponent's main...
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IDK if this has been mentioned before but if I remeber correctly, SC2 is 16+. Technically it would be illegal to let you compete.
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At 13 your brain is far from fully developed. You can't know how mature you are, because if you could, then you'd be mature. The greatest majority are immature, which means their decision making tends to err on the faulty side (not saying whether it's with intent or not), not knowing how to behave in public, not being able to control their impulses, etc. That would change in the teens, and at around 18-20 you should be a fully formed adult both mentally and physically, so that's when you're allowed to take responsability for yourself.
However, i believe you can have earlier emancipation (16 ?) if you ask for an audition in court with that intent and prove your psychological mind is capable or equal to one of older age.
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On June 26 2011 07:04 Angry_Fetus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 06:54 Strike_ wrote:
When I was 13 I also thought that I was extremely smart and mature for my age.
I wasn't.
QFT I was mad that I wasn't allowed to vote (election) at that age, thought I was very mature, and got frustrated at age requirements. When you actually get older, you'll realize you weren't at all mature, I sure wasn't qualified to make an informed decision on a federal election. We were all your age, don't forget that.
yup, but now I'm old enough to know that my vote doesn't even matter because of where I live, so I only vote on local measures and hope the high schoolers and college kids don't show up to vote on all the crap that raises my local taxes.
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On June 26 2011 07:08 Darclite wrote:Show nested quote +When I was 13 I also thought that I was extremely smart and mature for my age.
I wasn't. Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 06:59 daemir wrote:
I know it's pretty tough at that age to put yourself in other's shoes, but we were that age at one point too, we were all very mature and bright people and all that.
10-15 years roll by and you look back and you'll notice things perhaps weren't quite like that. Why is that relevant? Whether or not he is mature, and whether or not he thinks he's mature, the only thing that should bar him from a tournament are legal issues. Who cares what he's like in real life if he can get good results? Do we need to have each participant in a tournament take a personality test to evaluate their maturity? Didn't Idra say something like "This isn't a dating show, it's a computer game. Personality shouldn't matter." Everybody in this thread does realize we're just talking about a computer game right? Not sure how much life experience he needs to drop some marauders in his opponent's main...
It's relevant to them because they happened to read the OP. He's also complaining about being on teams at his age. Something you seem to have missed.
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On June 26 2011 07:05 Sevenofnines wrote:
Others have covered the legal/financial issues, so I'll look at another aspect: Physical/Mental Capability.
Kids are still growing and when it comes to high-level sports, they simply lack the physical prowess to perform at the highest levels. The only sports I can immediately think of that people under 18 could actually compete at the highest levels on a consistent basis are:
-Women's Gymnastics
-Women's Figure Skating
-Women's Tennis (kinda)
-Women's Golf (?)
EVERY OTHER SPORT sees its best performances from people of adult age. Youngsters don't stand a chance in hell because sports generally require a high degree of physical prowess. Kids and young teens are still growing, and if they went up against full adults they would get destroyed.
Now SC2 isn't quite like something like Football or Basketball, but there is still a very high physical component to competing at the highest levels. I doubt any 13 year old could push out constant 400 APM (without spamming) for a BoX. Not to mention that at that age, your brain is still developing and hasn't reached its full potential. Basically youngsters would be physically and mentally outmatched in every game they play. This handicap is large enough that its extremely unlikely someone that's underage could make it to the top. Now, hypothetically there could be some freak of nature that has the physical and mental capabilities at that young age to compete with the best of the best. But it's probably more likely to be from women's SC2.
why bother bringing up athletic sports when we're talking about SC2? Flash was 15 when he won his first OSL, and was already a top player at 14.
if you want to talk athletic sports, Ryan Sheckler (pro skater) went pro at 13.
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Agism sucks, doesn't it, OP? People like to think that their years give them wisdom, maturity, and intelligence (and they do, relative to how wise, mature, and intelligent they were to begin with of course) and that all children were as capable and intelligent as they were at X age. And governments love to arbitrarily set legal age limits, so this practice is all too expectable. All you can do is try to contact those running the tournament and demonstrate why you should be an exception to the (bad) rule.
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Unfortunately life is not fair. Sure there are plenty of people who are over 20 and are much less mature than people under 16 but the overwhelming trend is that as a per person gets older they are more mature and thus from any sample of people the older ones will likely be more mature, as such that is the imperfect measure society goes by.
If you want to become a professional gamer it doesn't have to all happen right now. Get your mmr up so that you start hitting pros on the ladder. If they think you're good they might not object to you joining them for practice sessions if you conduct yourself maturely and you don't need a contract to do that. If you're not that good yet there are plenty of non professional teams that you could join for good practice partners to work your way up.
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IDK if this has been mentioned before but if I remeber correctly, SC2 is 16+. Technically it would be illegal to let you compete.
The age rating on games does not mean that it is illigal to play them if you are not of the required age.
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On June 26 2011 07:16 holynorth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 07:08 Darclite wrote:When I was 13 I also thought that I was extremely smart and mature for my age.
I wasn't. On June 26 2011 06:59 daemir wrote:
I know it's pretty tough at that age to put yourself in other's shoes, but we were that age at one point too, we were all very mature and bright people and all that.
10-15 years roll by and you look back and you'll notice things perhaps weren't quite like that. Why is that relevant? Whether or not he is mature, and whether or not he thinks he's mature, the only thing that should bar him from a tournament are legal issues. Who cares what he's like in real life if he can get good results? Do we need to have each participant in a tournament take a personality test to evaluate their maturity? Didn't Idra say something like "This isn't a dating show, it's a computer game. Personality shouldn't matter." Everybody in this thread does realize we're just talking about a computer game right? Not sure how much life experience he needs to drop some marauders in his opponent's main... It's relevant to them because they happened to read the OP. He's also complaining about being on teams at his age. Something you seem to have missed.
Okay..don't really know what you're saying, I read the OP twice.
Why is his maturity that big of a deal for his team other than for legal reasons? If he is a good practice partner, then I don't care how mature he is. If I ran a team and found a promising younger player (barring legal issues) I wouldn't say to myself "He'll probably be great in a couple of years, but he's probably childish because some 13 year olds are, so forget it." He said in the OP that his problems stem from people that assume that he is very immature, which he doesn't appear to be (maybe to some extent, but he's better than many 18 year olds I know).
If I didn't address what you meant, sorry, I don't really know what you meant. I said that his personality shouldn't matter considering it is just a computer game, why it would be relevant to a tournament organizer or a team leader is a mystery to me.
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On June 26 2011 07:29 Darclite wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 07:16 holynorth wrote:On June 26 2011 07:08 Darclite wrote:When I was 13 I also thought that I was extremely smart and mature for my age.
I wasn't. On June 26 2011 06:59 daemir wrote:
I know it's pretty tough at that age to put yourself in other's shoes, but we were that age at one point too, we were all very mature and bright people and all that.
10-15 years roll by and you look back and you'll notice things perhaps weren't quite like that. Why is that relevant? Whether or not he is mature, and whether or not he thinks he's mature, the only thing that should bar him from a tournament are legal issues. Who cares what he's like in real life if he can get good results? Do we need to have each participant in a tournament take a personality test to evaluate their maturity? Didn't Idra say something like "This isn't a dating show, it's a computer game. Personality shouldn't matter." Everybody in this thread does realize we're just talking about a computer game right? Not sure how much life experience he needs to drop some marauders in his opponent's main... It's relevant to them because they happened to read the OP. He's also complaining about being on teams at his age. Something you seem to have missed. Okay..don't really know what you're saying, I read the OP twice. Why is his maturity that big of a deal for his team other than for legal reasons? If he is a good practice partner, then I don't care how mature he is. If I ran a team and found a promising younger player (barring legal issues) I wouldn't say to myself "He'll probably be great in a couple of years, but he's probably childish because some 13 year olds are, so forget it." He said in the OP that his problems stem from people that assume that he is very immature, which he doesn't appear to be (maybe to some extent, but he's better than many 18 year olds I know). If I didn't address what you meant, sorry, I don't really know what you meant. I said that his personality shouldn't matter considering it is just a computer game, why it would be relevant to a tournament organizer or a team leader is a mystery to me.
Teams are often more than just practice partners. You spend time together, you play together nonstop, you work together, you become friends. Ever worked at a job with a person that you just can't stand? It makes the job less enjoyable. Now I am not saying that this is true for every young player, but it is the problem that people are referring to.
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At least it's not impossible. It's not like its as difficult as it was for women to vote in the 1800's. As many posters above have stated... show your maturity through patience. I know its frustrating to have to go through extra barriers JUST because of your age.. but in reality the reasons that you have to go through them make sense. As SilverJohnny said... most organizers would rather make an exception than allow all 13 year olds in as a general rule. It makes sense and I am sure most the community would agree that the typical 13 year old can not handle the responsibilities of an adult in this ever evolving esports world.
Note: I didn't have a chance to see what your "disclaimer" was referencing.... but maybe your previous actions were less than exemplary and this is something to consider in seeing how most general rules are made.
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Don't take it personally, the internet is a wasteland of hate and trolls. It doesn't matter who you are, someones gonna talk shit. As far as joining teams, I'm on a team that I love. We started out as a loose group of friends who did some of our own tournaments against one another. We formed a team and everyone gets along. We all talk shit to each other and just have fun. We've all improved greatly since forming a team. Mostly everyone is masters now, when we started only 1 of us was. But we don't discriminate, I'd let a 10 year old join if he was pretty good, had a good attitude and just hung out with us a lot. Don't let it get you down bro, just get good and if you can't find a team, find some good friends and form one. The best way to start a team is to keep it as simple as possible. We have no structure within the team, we are all just good friends who play each other every day and discuss strategy. We just have 1 guy who is the leader. He got the vent and just got us a site, and we don't actually have a single written rule for our team. None are needed. We don't recruit, if someone starts playing with us every day for a while and everything is smooth, someone will just be like "tag up bro"
If you are wanting to be a pro, don't think you have to get on EG tomorrow to make that happen. It is understood on our team that if anyone ever jumps ship to join a better team, we will just wish them well and continue to support them. So just get on a team and with other people who's goal is to get as good as possible and enter a bunch of tourneys. If you or some people on your team start showing results, you will probably start rubbing shoulders with better and better people. Maybe even get on a high level team. It takes time and dedication.
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On June 26 2011 07:32 holynorth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 07:29 Darclite wrote:On June 26 2011 07:16 holynorth wrote:On June 26 2011 07:08 Darclite wrote:When I was 13 I also thought that I was extremely smart and mature for my age.
I wasn't. On June 26 2011 06:59 daemir wrote:
I know it's pretty tough at that age to put yourself in other's shoes, but we were that age at one point too, we were all very mature and bright people and all that.
10-15 years roll by and you look back and you'll notice things perhaps weren't quite like that. Why is that relevant? Whether or not he is mature, and whether or not he thinks he's mature, the only thing that should bar him from a tournament are legal issues. Who cares what he's like in real life if he can get good results? Do we need to have each participant in a tournament take a personality test to evaluate their maturity? Didn't Idra say something like "This isn't a dating show, it's a computer game. Personality shouldn't matter." Everybody in this thread does realize we're just talking about a computer game right? Not sure how much life experience he needs to drop some marauders in his opponent's main... It's relevant to them because they happened to read the OP. He's also complaining about being on teams at his age. Something you seem to have missed. Okay..don't really know what you're saying, I read the OP twice. Why is his maturity that big of a deal for his team other than for legal reasons? If he is a good practice partner, then I don't care how mature he is. If I ran a team and found a promising younger player (barring legal issues) I wouldn't say to myself "He'll probably be great in a couple of years, but he's probably childish because some 13 year olds are, so forget it." He said in the OP that his problems stem from people that assume that he is very immature, which he doesn't appear to be (maybe to some extent, but he's better than many 18 year olds I know). If I didn't address what you meant, sorry, I don't really know what you meant. I said that his personality shouldn't matter considering it is just a computer game, why it would be relevant to a tournament organizer or a team leader is a mystery to me. Teams are often more than just practice partners. You spend time together, you play together nonstop, you work together, you become friends. Ever worked at a job with a person that you just can't stand? It makes the job less enjoyable. Now I am not saying that this is true for every young player, but it is the problem that people are referring to.
But shouldn't this be determined by his actual personality than some vague stereotype about 13 year olds? And perhaps that is a bonus about being on a team, but I think that the focus should be on practicing. Perhaps he won't become anyone's new best friend, but as long as he doesn't do anything unforgivably annoying, then I don't see why they'd have a problem with him. And they certainly can get rid of him relatively easily if they don't want him on the team.
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Hi there,
I've been in that situation when I was younger. I was playing Counter Strike Source at that time and was 14 years old. So I understand what you feel.
But I persevered. Stayed on the server, showed my skill, my maturity and my dedication. The first time I explicitly asked to join the reaction of the clan was very negative. As time went by they got to know me beter over time and eventually, I got in. Not everybody was 100% happy about it, but they agreed to give it a shot. We had a great time, I learned alot from the older guys and I can say it was very learnfull experience. Practicing, playing matches, learning the true power of teamwork. It also gave my English level a great boost as it's not my mother tongue. The main thing is, I never complained, I kept my mouth shut and watched my steps very closely.
You should do the same. Don't complain, watch your steps and don't make posts over it.
If you don't get accepted in a team, try another one. Don't get frustrated or disapointed because people turned you down. Keep playing and enjoying the game, if you are really as good as you think you are (not saying you aren't), there will be doors opening for you at some point.
Big succes!
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On June 26 2011 07:45 Darclite wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 07:32 holynorth wrote:On June 26 2011 07:29 Darclite wrote:On June 26 2011 07:16 holynorth wrote:On June 26 2011 07:08 Darclite wrote:When I was 13 I also thought that I was extremely smart and mature for my age.
I wasn't. On June 26 2011 06:59 daemir wrote:
I know it's pretty tough at that age to put yourself in other's shoes, but we were that age at one point too, we were all very mature and bright people and all that.
10-15 years roll by and you look back and you'll notice things perhaps weren't quite like that. Why is that relevant? Whether or not he is mature, and whether or not he thinks he's mature, the only thing that should bar him from a tournament are legal issues. Who cares what he's like in real life if he can get good results? Do we need to have each participant in a tournament take a personality test to evaluate their maturity? Didn't Idra say something like "This isn't a dating show, it's a computer game. Personality shouldn't matter." Everybody in this thread does realize we're just talking about a computer game right? Not sure how much life experience he needs to drop some marauders in his opponent's main... It's relevant to them because they happened to read the OP. He's also complaining about being on teams at his age. Something you seem to have missed. Okay..don't really know what you're saying, I read the OP twice. Why is his maturity that big of a deal for his team other than for legal reasons? If he is a good practice partner, then I don't care how mature he is. If I ran a team and found a promising younger player (barring legal issues) I wouldn't say to myself "He'll probably be great in a couple of years, but he's probably childish because some 13 year olds are, so forget it." He said in the OP that his problems stem from people that assume that he is very immature, which he doesn't appear to be (maybe to some extent, but he's better than many 18 year olds I know). If I didn't address what you meant, sorry, I don't really know what you meant. I said that his personality shouldn't matter considering it is just a computer game, why it would be relevant to a tournament organizer or a team leader is a mystery to me. Teams are often more than just practice partners. You spend time together, you play together nonstop, you work together, you become friends. Ever worked at a job with a person that you just can't stand? It makes the job less enjoyable. Now I am not saying that this is true for every young player, but it is the problem that people are referring to. But shouldn't this be determined by his actual personality than some vague stereotype about 13 year olds? And perhaps that is a bonus about being on a team, but I think that the focus should be on practicing. Perhaps he won't become anyone's new best friend, but as long as he doesn't do anything unforgivably annoying, then I don't see why they'd have a problem with him. And they certainly can get rid of him relatively easily if they don't want him on the team.
It's a bonus that will go a long ways. A team that likes each other will do better.
And stereotypes exist for a reason.
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EPT
