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Glurkenspurk
United States1915 Posts
On June 26 2011 05:19 EmilA wrote: Not to be a party pooper, but is there any 13/14 y/o actually playing this game at a high level? I know there are some 16 y/o's in korea, but 13-14 years old? Would it really matter? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Baby Getting signed on fox at 12 years old. | ||
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Xenocidersc2
United States237 Posts
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BreakfastTea
United States184 Posts
I thought I might pipe in and offer general guidelines that are used in the music industry to help give an additional legal sense to this discussion. I'm going to be either quoting (and mainly paraphrasing) from my legal guidebook (This Business of Music, 10th ed.). There are a number of things that can be an issue when trying to work with a minor: 1) Unless a contract involves the necessities of life--food, clothing, housing-- a minor can void an agreement within a reasonable period of time after reaching the age of maturity (accepting more duties or payment after reaching the age of maturity, or providing written notice, can ratify the agreement, now making it binding to the minor party after reaching the age of maturity). The other party cannot avoid its contractual obligations to the minor. No particular pattern or procedure is needed for the minor to disaffirm/void an agreement other than (usually) to provide written notice that they are voiding the agreement because of their status as a minor (infancy). 2) Financial risk, where the minor may repudiate their agreement. For example, a minor fraudulently misrepresents their age; there unfortunately won't be sufficient legal grounds to enforce a contract or collect damages from the minor for breaching the contract. The entire risk in dealing with the minor is placed on the other party. I'm not sure how this works in other countries, but in the US 3) Court approval is required for contractual agreements with a minor. In NY, there are three requirements for approval: a) fairness to the minor; b) term may not extend beyond statutory limits (3 years maximum, under certain circumstances, 7 years); c) minor's parents or guardian must consent. At the court hearing, which is mandatory, the minor must be present, where a legal guardian (usually a parent) is assigned to collect and save the earnings on behalf of the minor, in addition to usually assigning an attorney ad litem who will review the agreement and determine its fairness to the minor. Additionally, the contract must ensure the well-being of the minor, or it will not be approved. 4) States all have different laws regarding contracts with minors, further complicating contracts, including when the minor lives in a separate state or country. (Some states, such as NY, won't allow a minor to break a contract because of infancy, as described above). 5) Because the vast majority of minors will not honor an agreement, and because the party seeking a contract with the minor will have to pay expensive legal fees in addition to the other liabilities a minor presents in order to obtain a contract, it is actually suggested for most companies, and especially small companies (for example, an eSports team with little money) to NEVER pursue a contract with a minor. 6) In some states, it is possible to have parents or guardians be liable for contract breaches by the minor, likely costing the parent or guarding extremely large sums for damages. Hope that helps. edit: edited for grammar and spelling errors. | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
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Piou
Belgium415 Posts
When money is involved, you must be 16+ or at leaste that's the law in Belgium, i don't know what's the law in your counrty. Admins just take action to prevent lawsuits, end of the story. | ||
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darkscream
Canada2310 Posts
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RHMVNovus
United States738 Posts
On June 26 2011 05:20 KawaiiRice wrote: the only way people are going to find out your age is if you wave it around like it matters if you have any issue with that it's your own fault and you're one of those people that make young players look bad lol... (for example by starting this thread) That's not true. At all. It is not always the OP's choice to disclose his age. Tournaments, as he stated, require that competitors disclose his age. To define 'waving one's age around' as disclosing a fact in a mandatory form seems... not foolish, per se, but meaningless. Being barred entry because he truthfully filled out a form - especially when in all other aspects he considers himself competent - reasonably raises concern. Tournaments asked what age he was and barred his entry. Most clans and teams won't consider him because of his age, which he discloses because they demand it, not because he demands all know about his age. The 4Kings gent explained it quite eloquently, his reasoning was both sound and just, and his explanation was quite enlightening. Please do not mistake me for one criticizing the equity of the current policies of tournaments and clans. The policies do make sense on a large scale. The OP may well be one of the exceptions that defies the otherwise sound reasoning for these tournaments. Now he knows why there is so much distrust toward youths and the reasoning behind them. Now he knows what he needs to be to prompt teams to break their policies for him. 'lol' indeed. | ||
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Kajarn
United States126 Posts
Its the internet, no one knows the real age of the person sitting behind the computer screen. How old do you think I am? 16? 26? 56? Guess what, you can't know for sure! | ||
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Daozzt
United States1263 Posts
On June 26 2011 05:38 Nagisa. wrote: Haha, thank you for worrying but I'm very dedicated to my studies, I took the SAT in 6th grade so I should be fine. Haha, what? If you're smart enough to take the SAT in 6th grade, you'd be smart enough to realize that making this thread is a mistake, and won't go anywhere because it's very clear why age limits exist in these things. | ||
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Sicky
United Kingdom121 Posts
On June 26 2011 03:55 Nagisa. wrote: Disclaimer: I have made lots of mistakes in my past regarding my attitude, I've even gotten banned on TL for dis-respect, which I am currently trying to change. Hi guys, my names Nagisa and I'm a 13 year old 1400 Masters Terran player aspiring for a GSL win, but I find it extremely interesting that most tournaments are 16+ or 18+, why? I have to go out of my way, talk to admins for 30 minutes to hours, wait for responses that don't come. I don't understand just because some of us are immature means that the rest of us have to suffer? I know plenty of 20 year old's that act MUCH more immature than I do. Oh and the best part being if anyone ever catches wind of me being 13, I get hounded on, my ignore list is becoming my best friend on SC2. What I'm trying to say here is that, kids should be treated the same in the SC2 community, just as we don't treat girls or other ethnicities with disrespect we shouldn't go out of our way to flame kids who don't know better. Based on this post, if I didn't tell you that I was 13, would you be able to tell? I think a lot of people portray anyone under the age of 16 as someone who doesn't understand grammar, or puts A LOT of ^.^ ;D =) in every sentence. Same thing with teams, I can't practice against anyone or join a team JUST BECAUSE I'm not 13, the common response is, "We don't want to take the risk." What risk? I don't see any harm in trying me out, but just because I'm a certain age means that I cant even TRY? My voice isn't that high, the problem here is that teenagers or people under 16 HAVE PROVEN - Gosu.Pokebunny that they can compete. (Much respect to you) Everyone ravels at Pokebunny with words such as, a child prodigy, amazing, how can you do this at such a young age, and yet when ever another "child prodigy" tries to step in the scene hes immediately shot down. I am sorry if this is generalizing people, but this is what I have seen in my days of SC2 so thanks for reading guys and I hope you have a g'day. I'll leave you with the, Why do kids get the hate? question that I started it all off with. I completely agree with the stigma that comes with players under 16, I know this as I've played games for over 8 years online (I'm 16 now) and yes it probably should change. On a side note though, being ranked 1400 Master League on NA is worlds apart from a GSL win. | ||
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KawaiiRice
United States2914 Posts
On June 26 2011 05:54 RHMVNovus wrote: That's not true. At all. It is not always the OP's choice to disclose his age. Tournaments, as he stated, require that competitors disclose his age. To define 'waving one's age around' as disclosing a fact in a mandatory form seems... not foolish, per se, but meaningless. Being barred entry because he truthfully filled out a form - especially when in all other aspects he considers himself competent - reasonably raises concern. Tournaments asked what age he was and barred his entry. Most clans and teams won't consider him because of his age, which he discloses because they demand it, not because he demands all know about his age. The 4Kings gent explained it quite eloquently, his reasoning was both sound and just, and his explanation was quite enlightening. Please do not mistake me for one criticizing the equity of the current policies of tournaments and clans. The policies do make sense on a large scale. The OP may well be one of the exceptions that defies the otherwise sound reasoning for these tournaments. Now he knows why there is so much distrust toward youths and the reasoning behind them. Now he knows what he needs to be to prompt teams to break their policies for him. 'lol' indeed. I was not addressing the tournament part of his post at all because it's utter bs. Not only did I compete in said tournaments, I was also invited to them while under 18 lol. There are practically no tournaments that ask for your age and I've only had that problem one time. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On June 26 2011 03:58 Nagisa. wrote: Hello Warrice, There are plenty of people that no-show due to their jobs like a sudden-call up. I don't agree with the, anything could happen before a match statement, because there are LOTS of people have things happen before a match. 18 above and below are the same. I have to agree. I find it amusing that we're putting all these protocols in place now. We never had these silly rules in place back in BW. I used to help manage several teams and I always looking for young talent. I remember when Inc and the like were just toddlers. -_- Let the kids fucking play. | ||
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Peekaboo
Canada219 Posts
I guess the problem is nobody with the time or skill has created a Junior team environment. It would actually be very easy to arrange online. You play online with other young people under the supervision of coaches who help you refine your play. You get show-match series against others of similar talent, etc Maybe even national jr. teams. It would be cool if one of the major teams took this on and developed players, but its just not in their interest for reasons stated in this post, and the fact the player could move on once successful basically wasting all the time the team put into them. As far as I'm concerned 13 is a perfect age to be developing talent. Its just not the perfect age to be on an adult team given all the reasons in the posts above. Good luck to you. I suggest you get a mentor and work from there. Get good enough and they won't be able to ignore you. | ||
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kNightLite
United States408 Posts
However, depending upon which state/nation the tournament is hosted, there are child labor laws that make it a hassle to legally contract and award minors with monetary compensation. So it's not like the SC2 community is somehow discriminating against minors, instead its the western legal system in general. Korea has a completely different culture and legal system which is why you'll see 15 year olds like Leenock in the GSL. Go watch day9daily 100, where Day9 describes what it was like participating in his first WCG when he was still in high school. The only reason it worked was because his mom went with him to the tournament. I'm sure team managers don't want to deal with the extra hassle of chaperoning minors at hectic events like MLG/Dreamhack. | ||
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ReseT
United States273 Posts
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Unhallowed
Canada171 Posts
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Dakk
Sweden572 Posts
If I'm at a LAN where there are young kids, they all treat me with respect, and they do get cocky towards me, if I'm cocky towards them. They sort of sort people through who can take jokes in real life, and who can't. I am sure that none of them would ever be rude in real life unless they have been given a reason to. Woah! This became quite a long post. The only advice i can give really is to suck it up. Get yourself a "friend group" that you get along good with. Try to see if some of the mods can help you search for a team/group through teamliquid.net somehow. I am not entirely sure. If it does not work, wait 3 years  | ||
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opaque
Russian Federation89 Posts
If you in fact have so much free time, you should be able to practice and gain respect through your ability to play the game. You don't need a team or practice partners to mass games and straighten out your basic game mechanics. Strategy and builds is a different story, but with pure mechanics and a few solid builds (that you don't need to create with the amount of resources at your disposal) you will be able to hit a level of play that will gain you the respect necessary from others to actually practice with you. This game, as all other games, is about how good you are as a player. Look at Naniwa, he massed a ridiculous amounts of games on ladder and got his mechanics in order. He gained respect of players and now primarily practices exclusively in custom games. | ||
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Crystal368
Sweden161 Posts
"I have made lots of mistakes in my past regarding my attitude, I've even gotten banned on TL for dis-respect..." Do you really think you get all the hate just because you're young? If you are being well mannered and mature people will eventually stop bothering you because you're young, you're saying you're fixing the attitude problems, but with the history of even getting banned for dis-respect, you might be in for a tough race. I've had a lot of experiences with kids, or I guess; young teenagers, around your age, in games. I don't have anything against different ages at all, but it's a fact that there are a lot of immature kids, obviously. | ||
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On June 26 2011 05:43 Nagisa. wrote: Like I stated one of the main problems is the team, I can't practice macro games I get all'ined 95% of my ladder games, It'd be really great to play with a group of people who are on consistently. It's not exactly the same, but I ran a WoW guild for a couple of years. We had players who were 13 or 14 years old and generally the biggest problem we had with them was that they'd be in the middle of something and announce that their parents had demanded they leave the computer. Even if they personally wished to be reliable members of our group, it was impossible to account for what their family would demand of them. In addition, while they were often very good players and quite reasonable in the moment, over the long run the people I encountered who were 13 or 14 had serious maturity issues that got in the way of doing what we were trying to do. They complained about negative feedback when things weren't going well, they didn't exercise self control with joking around when it was time to be serious, that kind of thing. The one, single exception was a girl who was 14 when she was with us. Her dad was a leader in the guild. Her behavior was completely exemplary, but I have to imagine that it made a difference to have a parent who was participating alongside her. | ||
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