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On June 26 2011 04:34 JustPassingBy wrote:
Suddenly a spark of doubt coming within me whether it is really good to create a gigantic esports scene where one company has so much absolut power. They can basically shut down whole tournaments and end careers on a whim if they feel like it.
you really cant be this dumb, banning someones account wont end there esports career, this isnt world of warcraft
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while it makes sense to disallow account sharing due to a limited amount of players in grandmasters i think it is ridiculous to expect gamers to pay ~ 4 times for the game just to be able to play worldwide. just another money grabbing move declared "to help ensure the best game performance."
with 3 addons which are considered to be full price thats 12 times the normal price for a "full game".
thats 12*60$= 720$ (!!!)
and this is a lot of money for a video game.
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Lol I love they even called TaKe. That is so ridiculous. But okay, both players have accepterd the terms of agreement so so they should not be account sharing. But HuK should just have been able to find a game...
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On June 25 2011 22:51 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
is a North American internet cafe allowed to use regular retail copies of SC2?
or is that considered "account sharing" because 30 different people use it?
Internet cafe's usually have a special licence that allows them to do it.
@this whole topic;
Retarded that people are spending 50 pages crying about this shit, it's against the EULA and they warned for it, not like Blizzard stole food from kids in africa.
And if Blizzcon came around and had invites based on ladder even more people would cry if HuK was the reason TLO got an invite.
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On June 26 2011 06:18 Ighox wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 22:51 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
is a North American internet cafe allowed to use regular retail copies of SC2?
or is that considered "account sharing" because 30 different people use it? Internet cafe's usually have a special licence that allows them to do it. @this whole topic; Retarded that people are spending 50 pages crying about this shit, it's against the EULA and they warned for it, not like Blizzard stole food from kids in africa. And if Blizzcon came around and had invites based on ladder even more people would cry if HuK was the reason TLO got an invite.
TLO was rank 1 EU even before Huk started using his account  .
I think blizzard just want to mark that they don't accept this but wont do anything about it.
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On June 26 2011 05:35 Spacedude wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 04:52 starcraft911 wrote:On June 26 2011 04:46 Spacedude wrote:On June 26 2011 04:34 JustPassingBy wrote:
Suddenly a spark of doubt coming within me whether it is really good to create a gigantic esports scene where one company has so much absolut power. They can basically shut down whole tournaments and end careers on a whim if they feel like it. This how I very much feel. I wish that e-sports communites had the ability and resources to make their own open source game, even if this is totally unrealistic. Starcraft 2 is owned by Blizzard and they can mostly do whatever they want to, even if the whole communities disagrees with what they did. It's their house and we're just guests. But that's the best deal there's is, atm. I think you're under the delusion that you're in the majority when you think that having a player abuse the GM system by playing on another persons ID to keep them from dropping to masters is a 'fair' thing. Maybe among the TL community the vocal majority supports this, but i believe casuals and those who care about the integrity of the ladder are more inclined to side with blizzard on this one. I think suggesting that blizzard would, "shut down whole tournaments" is fear mongering and is completely irrelevant to this situation. It's like you took all the facts and disregarded the ones you don't agree with. It's got nothing to do with simply sharing accounts. It's entirely about their GM system and the upcoming tournament. I'm not sure why that's so difficult to grasp. Maybe basing a tournament of the ladder system is then the problem in question here? If you base a tournament on something which very nature allows for account sharing (and rightly so) then isn't this the real problem here? I don't know if the majority shares my opinions or not - and nor do I care for it. My opinions ain't based upon how many simply agrees with them or not. If hacker ruins the game for others he should be banned, but is account sharing the same thing in nature? I don't believe so. It's blizzard own fault for using the ladder system this way, not the account sharer.
The scenario that the OP painted was a half truth in that Huk wasn't using TLO's account to simply warmup because his main ID was unable to find games as stated.
If you watch Huk's stream you'd know that he had been using TLO's ID to keep him from dropping out of GM while TLO recovered. While this is a noble thing for Huk to do, Blizzard sees it as undermining their ladder at a time when doing so is particularly bad.
If you were one of the masters players who are 1700+ and had a goal to get into grandmasters but because the system is inherently flawed and allows inactive people with MUCH lower MMR rating to sit in GM when players with higher MMR are stuck in masters how then do you think you'd feel about this?
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Such a nice communication strategy :p It's like sending an e-mail to every potential and actual sc2 player saying there is a possibility to use your friends' accounts :p
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Spend that time+money involved with calling people regarding accounts into something more productive imho.
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On June 26 2011 06:23 Sneakyz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 06:18 Ighox wrote:On June 25 2011 22:51 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
is a North American internet cafe allowed to use regular retail copies of SC2?
or is that considered "account sharing" because 30 different people use it? Internet cafe's usually have a special licence that allows them to do it. @this whole topic; Retarded that people are spending 50 pages crying about this shit, it's against the EULA and they warned for it, not like Blizzard stole food from kids in africa. And if Blizzcon came around and had invites based on ladder even more people would cry if HuK was the reason TLO got an invite. TLO was rank 1 EU even before Huk started using his account . I think blizzard just want to mark that they don't accept this but wont do anything about it.
http://sc2ranks.com/team/4340002
The graphs clearly show when Huk took over (about a week ago.) His match history shows him playing protoss when the spike happened.
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On June 26 2011 06:23 starcraft911 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 05:35 Spacedude wrote:On June 26 2011 04:52 starcraft911 wrote:On June 26 2011 04:46 Spacedude wrote:On June 26 2011 04:34 JustPassingBy wrote:
Suddenly a spark of doubt coming within me whether it is really good to create a gigantic esports scene where one company has so much absolut power. They can basically shut down whole tournaments and end careers on a whim if they feel like it. This how I very much feel. I wish that e-sports communites had the ability and resources to make their own open source game, even if this is totally unrealistic. Starcraft 2 is owned by Blizzard and they can mostly do whatever they want to, even if the whole communities disagrees with what they did. It's their house and we're just guests. But that's the best deal there's is, atm. I think you're under the delusion that you're in the majority when you think that having a player abuse the GM system by playing on another persons ID to keep them from dropping to masters is a 'fair' thing. Maybe among the TL community the vocal majority supports this, but i believe casuals and those who care about the integrity of the ladder are more inclined to side with blizzard on this one. I think suggesting that blizzard would, "shut down whole tournaments" is fear mongering and is completely irrelevant to this situation. It's like you took all the facts and disregarded the ones you don't agree with. It's got nothing to do with simply sharing accounts. It's entirely about their GM system and the upcoming tournament. I'm not sure why that's so difficult to grasp. Maybe basing a tournament of the ladder system is then the problem in question here? If you base a tournament on something which very nature allows for account sharing (and rightly so) then isn't this the real problem here? I don't know if the majority shares my opinions or not - and nor do I care for it. My opinions ain't based upon how many simply agrees with them or not. If hacker ruins the game for others he should be banned, but is account sharing the same thing in nature? I don't believe so. It's blizzard own fault for using the ladder system this way, not the account sharer. The scenario that the OP painted was a half truth in that Huk wasn't using TLO's account to simply warmup because his main ID was unable to find games as stated. If you watch Huk's stream you'd know that he had been using TLO's ID to keep him from dropping out of GM while TLO recovered. While this is a noble thing for Huk to do, Blizzard sees it as undermining their ladder at a time when doing so is particularly bad. If you were one of the masters players who are 1700+ and had a goal to get into grandmasters but because the system is inherently flawed and allows inactive people with MUCH lower MMR rating to sit in GM when players with higher MMR are stuck in masters how then do you think you'd feel about this?
I do understand this and I do agree, but my arguement still stands. I see it as a downside of an imperfect system, so this is only to be expected. Whether or not you (anyone) argee with me on the nature of sharing and their right to do so (even though the TOS says otherwise), Blizzard cannot enforce such rules practically. This statement from Blizzard is nothing but an empty threat to the community (and a dumb one at that).
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On the one hand... account sharing is really innocuous, unless you're talking about cheating at an event or something of the kind, so I wish Blizzard weren't such hardasses on the issue.
On the other hand, Blizzard is completely within their rights to demand players not share accounts- it's in the TOS. So being warned by Blizzard and then disregarding their warning is just really dumb; think of what happens here in TeamLiquid when a mod warns you to stop doing something and then you go and do it again immediately after :p
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I can understand as well why Blizzard has made this move concerning HuK using TLO's account, but I still cannot totally comprehend why it should pertain to all users. From a professional eSports standpoint the rule should definitely be enforced, obviously. But I do not think that it should affect casual users. I mean, even though Blizzard still has the rights to anyone's account, why should it be that way? If one has paid good money for the account, it should be the user's responsibility of who plays on that account.
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On June 26 2011 06:55 Zato-1 wrote:
On the one hand... account sharing is really innocuous, unless you're talking about cheating at an event or something of the kind, so I wish Blizzard weren't such hardasses on the issue.
On the other hand, Blizzard is completely within their rights to demand players not share accounts- it's in the TOS. So being warned by Blizzard and then disregarding their warning is just really dumb; think of what happens here in TeamLiquid when a mod warns you to stop doing something and then you go and do it again immediately after :p
But are they really within their rights to close an account because of sharing? Let's say that such a case was to come to court in Denmark (liberal country) then I doubt very much that Blizzard would win said case. I'm no lawyer, but I do believe that the TOS would come into conflict with some of our basic rights, which the TOS simply connot set aside. But this is natually highly unlikely seeing as the game is only about 25-30 quid. But isn't this really one of Blizzard greatest strengths? Who have the time/resources/willingness to do such a thing? It'd be ridiculous.
I'm just glad that practicality protect us in such cases, if nothing else.
Now, you might say to me: ''why even care about such a little issue?''. Well, because nothing is set in stone (people's hard earned rights over hundred of years) and because small steps adds up. What will be the next little/tiny thing corporations or politicians, ect, can get away with that will in the long run undermind our rights? It might be small, seemingly reasonable things, but what will it lead to? Words of wisdom: 'Question everything'.
Note: I'm not anti-corporations or anti-politicians at all (that's just dumb). Corporations have rights to, natually, and do a lot of good for us/society. I'm putting things a bit on a sword's tip here, therefore you might get such silly ideas. :p
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On June 26 2011 06:23 starcraft911 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 05:35 Spacedude wrote:On June 26 2011 04:52 starcraft911 wrote:On June 26 2011 04:46 Spacedude wrote:On June 26 2011 04:34 JustPassingBy wrote:
Suddenly a spark of doubt coming within me whether it is really good to create a gigantic esports scene where one company has so much absolut power. They can basically shut down whole tournaments and end careers on a whim if they feel like it. This how I very much feel. I wish that e-sports communites had the ability and resources to make their own open source game, even if this is totally unrealistic. Starcraft 2 is owned by Blizzard and they can mostly do whatever they want to, even if the whole communities disagrees with what they did. It's their house and we're just guests. But that's the best deal there's is, atm. I think you're under the delusion that you're in the majority when you think that having a player abuse the GM system by playing on another persons ID to keep them from dropping to masters is a 'fair' thing. Maybe among the TL community the vocal majority supports this, but i believe casuals and those who care about the integrity of the ladder are more inclined to side with blizzard on this one. I think suggesting that blizzard would, "shut down whole tournaments" is fear mongering and is completely irrelevant to this situation. It's like you took all the facts and disregarded the ones you don't agree with. It's got nothing to do with simply sharing accounts. It's entirely about their GM system and the upcoming tournament. I'm not sure why that's so difficult to grasp. Maybe basing a tournament of the ladder system is then the problem in question here? If you base a tournament on something which very nature allows for account sharing (and rightly so) then isn't this the real problem here? I don't know if the majority shares my opinions or not - and nor do I care for it. My opinions ain't based upon how many simply agrees with them or not. If hacker ruins the game for others he should be banned, but is account sharing the same thing in nature? I don't believe so. It's blizzard own fault for using the ladder system this way, not the account sharer. The scenario that the OP painted was a half truth in that Huk wasn't using TLO's account to simply warmup because his main ID was unable to find games as stated. If you watch Huk's stream you'd know that he had been using TLO's ID to keep him from dropping out of GM while TLO recovered. While this is a noble thing for Huk to do, Blizzard sees it as undermining their ladder at a time when doing so is particularly bad. If you were one of the masters players who are 1700+ and had a goal to get into grandmasters but because the system is inherently flawed and allows inactive people with MUCH lower MMR rating to sit in GM when players with higher MMR are stuck in masters how then do you think you'd feel about this?
I would have to say that siding with Blizz is stupid, who is more deserving? TLO, the pro, the #1 on EU for how long, or the person who is going to be taking his spot while he rests and gets better, at that point in time, the person, in 2 months from now it'll be TLO again, why should he have to be locked out of somewhere he obviously deserves to be?
I understand that it is messing with the integrity of the ladder but blizzard needs to fix the issue with the growing number of hacks being used to completely destroy the ladder, I think focusing on not having a repeat of the original B.net and the unplayability of BW happening is much more important then worrying about account sharing, because even though it is against their rules, its stupid, I am obviously going to share my account with a friend that has never played as opposed to them going out an buying the game for $60 to find out they don't enjoy it
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On June 26 2011 04:52 starcraft911 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 04:46 Spacedude wrote:On June 26 2011 04:34 JustPassingBy wrote:
Suddenly a spark of doubt coming within me whether it is really good to create a gigantic esports scene where one company has so much absolut power. They can basically shut down whole tournaments and end careers on a whim if they feel like it. This how I very much feel. I wish that e-sports communites had the ability and resources to make their own open source game, even if this is totally unrealistic. Starcraft 2 is owned by Blizzard and they can mostly do whatever they want to, even if the whole communities disagrees with what they did. It's their house and we're just guests. But that's the best deal there's is, atm. I think you're under the delusion that you're in the majority when you think that having a player abuse the GM system by playing on another persons ID to keep them from dropping to masters is a 'fair' thing. Maybe among the TL community the vocal majority supports this, but i believe casuals and those who care about the integrity of the ladder are more inclined to side with blizzard on this one.
We all established that Blizzard is within the rights that it gave to itself to send this warning. But consider why it would ever have to do that to begin with. The ladder is not open to innovation by third parties (no gamei, iccup, fish), and the monopolistic ladder we got is barely usable. One ID per account, no clans, bad (also, late after release) chat. Worrying about the integrity of the single global ladder, well, it's assigning value to something that players actually think is meaningless. In this way using it alone for tournament qualifications is a mistake, whether by Blizzard's own tournaments or any other league.
If HuK could make more than one ID, he wouldn't have used someone else's account. If the MMR worked at his level, he wouldn't have used someone else's account. In fact, I think it could all be reduced to not having multiple accounts. We have the damn number qualifiers anyways, it's not like the server will run out of names.
Like the ladder abuse to qualify for KBK in 1999. There was abuse, and it spread to top players so they could stay competitive. In the end, it was still only top players who really did well. Some even crushed without abusing. You can't create a ladder that is totally pure. There are always inaccuracies: win trading, account sharing, guy gets a phone call and dies when his opponent unpauses, Idra leaving before splitting drones because he drew an opponent he doesn't want.
I guess most players only even play one realm. We're used to being open to multiple realms and in fact multiple servers. The solution isn't "get over it, SC2 is different" because these are things that just make gaming better. The conclusion isn't that HuK should be exonerated (if things stay as they are, laddering on someone else's ID can't go down), but that what he did has revealed that Blizzard's product is still bad with respect to basically everything outside gameplay.
Edit: I also don't see in what way a casual player (if he really exists) would care about HuK using TLO's account when he couldn't find any games on his own account. He should be too busy playing 3v3s, and actually be more concerned whether Blizzard really wants to install a webcam at his battlestation so they can lock his account if he ever showed the game to his friend than whether TLO, who is not playing, will get seeded into a tournament that he can't play in.
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hmm i can see why they get warned though... i mean both of them are top players which means that they are both setting the norms for other players. so they simply dont want others to follow the pros with stuff like that.
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Wow that's ridiculous, ladder might be a bit annoying, but custom games should be no problems...
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On June 26 2011 01:29 Vendor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 00:52 jstar wrote:On June 25 2011 21:34 Bagi wrote:On June 25 2011 21:29 jstar wrote:
Devil's advocate: Blizzard has policies to enforce and just because they're TLO and HuK doesn't mean they get exceptions. Well, I kinda think they already got an exception when Blizzard warned them instead of just closing the account. I doubt the regular diamond Joe would get the same treatment. Exactly, so wtf are people complaining about? You really think Blizzard would do anything to someone in Diamond?
Afaik there's no way for them to detect whether two people are playing on the same account.
My friend and his brother are playing on the same account, and afaik none from the blizzard office has called them to make them stop, and if they did they'd get laughed in the face.
This is a pathetic move imo, and somewhat of a boner kill for us who actually try to see blizzard as a company that cares about the players and making this a quality game, rather than a quick cash cow.
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I understand their reasoning for the no accountsharing policy, they want more money. Honestly though they must realize that noone, except the most rule abiding people out there, cares about that policy.
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EPT
