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On June 17 2011 17:21 Ocedic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 17:12 inamorato wrote:On June 17 2011 17:00 drop271 wrote:
The teamhouse argument comes up a number of times. I think thats really strange, and if someone can clarify for me, then I'd greatly appreciate it.
As far as I can see, all a team house is is a fucking house with computers in it. We all live in houses, pay rent, and have our own computers. If you want to get better then move in with your teammates, or other great players, instead of your friends?
How is this so impossible to replicate? Its not like magic water in the taps is the key equation? These guys (foreign players) are working hard and trying to be the best in the world. Are people seriously arguing that the fact they are unwilling to move cities in order to co-locate is a major barrier?
Again, if I'm missing something, please correct me Living in a team house environment isn't limited to Starcraft. Take the time to understand what this type of environment has to offer instead of coming off with half cocked questions. It is the simple fact that to improve in anything you need to grow. Growth can be achieved through the help of others. It is the same for rehabilitation. Do you see people hosting 1 house drug rehabs? No, because an environment with support, structure, and the ability to evolve an idea as a group is much more efficient than as an individual. Relying solely on yourself to flourish in anything over an opportunity to grow as a team//community is foolish. The electricity of doing something you love with a group of people all focused on the same goal opens many more doors. You have the ability to thrive on other people's ideas, dedication, and sheer love for the game when you are feeling like you're ready to give up. What? You didn't even address anything in the post that you quoted, and offer some pointless drug rehab analogy. His post is perfectly legit: there's nothing special or magical about pro houses. It's a house with people living together who are teammates. Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 17:18 rotegirte wrote:On June 17 2011 17:13 drop271 wrote:On June 17 2011 17:12 inamorato wrote:On June 17 2011 17:00 drop271 wrote:
The teamhouse argument comes up a number of times. I think thats really strange, and if someone can clarify for me, then I'd greatly appreciate it.
As far as I can see, all a team house is is a fucking house with computers in it. We all live in houses, pay rent, and have our own computers. If you want to get better then move in with your teammates, or other great players, instead of your friends?
How is this so impossible to replicate? Its not like magic water in the taps is the key equation? These guys (foreign players) are working hard and trying to be the best in the world. Are people seriously arguing that the fact they are unwilling to move cities in order to co-locate is a major barrier?
Again, if I'm missing something, please correct me Living in a team house environment isn't limited to Starcraft. Take the time to understand what this type of environment has to offer instead of coming off with half cocked questions. It is the simple fact that to improve in anything you need to grow. Growth can be achieved through the help of others. It is the same for rehabilitation. Do you see people hosting 1 house drug rehabs? No, because an environment with support, structure, and the ability to evolve an idea as a group is much more efficient than as an individual. Relying solely on yourself to flourish in anything over an opportunity to grow as a team//community is foolish. The electricity of doing something you love with a group of people all focused on the same goal opens many more doors. You have the ability to thrive on other people's ideas, dedication, and sheer love for the game when you are feeling like you're ready to give up. Please read my post and refrain from calling someone half-cocked. As I said, if team houses are so important (and I agree they are) then why aren't foreign players making them? Whats the barrier? Go ahead, make one. Return if you run into any problems. Dumb logical fallacy. Have you even moved out of your parents' house? Ever find housing for yourself? Find roommates, whether with friends or strangers? Was it that hard? Are pro-gamers helpless little children or something? Heck, many on sponsored teams have MANAGERS who should be taking care of this stuff. FXO managed to set up a pro house in MALAYSIA.
What is the purpose of your post? To enlighten me that my reply doesn't meet legitimate standard?
I'm so glad you were able to pinpoint how me and another poster were unable to give sufficient analogies while you managed to contribute nothing aside from being fucking robocop. Instead of derailing other peoples comments//replies with negative remarks and not even suggesting an opinion of your own to the original questions, how about you just blank edit your post?
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On June 17 2011 17:38 legaton wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 17:32 Bombmk wrote:
How many here honestly thinks that SC:BW would have taken off in Korea like it did, if there was pro US and EU players coming over and winning the bigger tournaments again and again?
Who would pay for pro-houses to house a lot of number 3's and 4's?
You mean like Grrr and Elky? (Even if they didn't win that much).
So actually not like them? 
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On June 17 2011 17:38 drop271 wrote:edit: @Xadar (above) the point is that he misconstrues all the foreign fans, that are making it possible for MLG to have a massive tournament, as fans of foreign players. We're not. We're fans of esports. Catz can have an NA only tournament if he wants, fans may watch, they might not, but I would rather see some Koreans, and I think many people would, which means the prize money on offer for a NA only tournament would probably be lower than for MLG. Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 17:34 inamorato wrote:
Again simple questions have simple answers. A lot of the legitimate American teams already have intentions to develop team houses or already have. The only difference is in Korea it means something to be a professional gamer, and to live in a REAL team house.
I have to assume that you weren't involved when Broodwar was prime or are even involved now because a team house in Korea doesn't simply consist of 5 players. There are thousands of 17 year old Koreans who've gone through team houses just to simply be practice partners for the teams aces. Few ever make it, but the sheer quantity of potential players is 100 fold what America is. To them you don't hear selfish comments such as Catz about money. It is much more than the money to them. To have an opportunity to be a practice partner for an S player is a form of success in itself, and is enough motivation to commit 14 hours a day for these people.
To answer your question of the barrier. Overall money is a barrier. Because as much as money doesn't matter to most of the individual players in Korea, it matters to the investors. Team houses didn't sprout over night, it took growth for the nation and sport to intertwine. Which will eventually happen in America if esports is to truly succeed for Americans. It is nothing to invest money such as NASL for a tournament where your money is guaranteed, but to invest money for a team, coach, house, equipment on the off chance that the investor will generate a profit as a label is completely different. a) the fact that Foreign pros are competing with Koreans without pro houses shows that the number of players argument is invalid. There are obviously enough players with raw talent outside of Korea that could find 10 players and move in together. Why is money an issue? As I said we ALL pay rent/living costs. Why does it cost more to cram yourself in with other players? I mean if you stick 8 people in the same room, as the Koreans are willing to do, then it would cost less!
I am a glutton convinced that I can somehow fit logic into your illogical mind. You ask dumb questions without taking the time to think of a simple answer. Then when you receive answers you knock them.
When I speak about sheer numbers I speak mostly in terms of Brood War. Where there has been next to 0 success from the foreign scene on a top tier level. Even in terms of Starcraft 2, how many foreigners do you see consistently placing in tournaments where Koreans participate. Let me answer, none. Numbers with dedication in Korea squashes foreigners in comparison.
Response to a) : Where do you ACTUALLY see Foreign pros competing with Koreans without pro houses? At MLG I saw Idra compete with Koreans. That is it. Who as you would know if you paid any attention since you became an expert of esports when you bought SC2 6 monthes ago and made a tl account, that he lived in a team house for SEVERAL years in Brood War, and LIVES in a team house NOW. Why are you failing to understand?
Lastly, where do you think 19 year old gamers have money to pay for a team house with equipment, and the capability of traveling across the country if not world to compete in tournaments. Well I guess they could work 8 hours a day. Oh, but then they wouldn't be playing starcraft full time, which in turn would defeat the purpose of having a team house to begin with.
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On June 17 2011 17:37 Xadar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 17:26 hifriend wrote:
This is pretty ridiculous. If you don't like tough competition, then don't compete. It also comes off as fairly racist. Ok, apparently you either didnt watch the video or simply didnt understand it. He is not against foreigners competing against Koreans. What he says is, that we need LOCAL tournaments that are winnable for Americans. He isnt against global competition, he just says that there has to be money in the US for esport to grow there. How do you expect there to be good players if the money is taken by the Koreans from the start. Of course theres no motivation for new players if theres no money they can realistically win, so they can sustain themselves as a Starcraft players. I think his soccer example was really good. Imagine the teams in the USA would have been put up against the best in the world right from the start. They'd just fail and would lose interest. But if they first compete against each other, it allows for a scene to develop, because there are tournaments that can realistically be won. Im not against global competition either, i enjoyed for example the world championship, but my point is, that there need to be local leagues you can train for and win. And your point of racism is pretty dumb actually. He said himself that he would be fine with it if the Koreans had to come over to play it, like foreigners have to do with the GSL.
What it all comes down to is that Koreans are willing to work a lot harder in order to improve at a faster rate than 99% of foreign pro's. In any healthy sort of competitive environment this should pay off greatly but now some foreigners have decided that rather than trying to practice on the same level as Koreans they'd prefer just completely excluding them from some of the events with the highest prize pools in the world.
Koreans don't even get a freaking salary and their only shot at getting good winnings is by taking #1-#4 in GSL code S. There are several korean players that are miles ahead of almost every foreigner but has made virtually nothing out of SC2.
Foreign players are preoccupied with coaching/streaming/laddering/being on talk shows and what not and most of them don't deserve that prize money to the same degree as koreans do.
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On June 17 2011 17:47 inamorato wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 17:38 drop271 wrote:edit: @Xadar (above) the point is that he misconstrues all the foreign fans, that are making it possible for MLG to have a massive tournament, as fans of foreign players. We're not. We're fans of esports. Catz can have an NA only tournament if he wants, fans may watch, they might not, but I would rather see some Koreans, and I think many people would, which means the prize money on offer for a NA only tournament would probably be lower than for MLG. On June 17 2011 17:34 inamorato wrote:
Again simple questions have simple answers. A lot of the legitimate American teams already have intentions to develop team houses or already have. The only difference is in Korea it means something to be a professional gamer, and to live in a REAL team house.
I have to assume that you weren't involved when Broodwar was prime or are even involved now because a team house in Korea doesn't simply consist of 5 players. There are thousands of 17 year old Koreans who've gone through team houses just to simply be practice partners for the teams aces. Few ever make it, but the sheer quantity of potential players is 100 fold what America is. To them you don't hear selfish comments such as Catz about money. It is much more than the money to them. To have an opportunity to be a practice partner for an S player is a form of success in itself, and is enough motivation to commit 14 hours a day for these people.
To answer your question of the barrier. Overall money is a barrier. Because as much as money doesn't matter to most of the individual players in Korea, it matters to the investors. Team houses didn't sprout over night, it took growth for the nation and sport to intertwine. Which will eventually happen in America if esports is to truly succeed for Americans. It is nothing to invest money such as NASL for a tournament where your money is guaranteed, but to invest money for a team, coach, house, equipment on the off chance that the investor will generate a profit as a label is completely different. a) the fact that Foreign pros are competing with Koreans without pro houses shows that the number of players argument is invalid. There are obviously enough players with raw talent outside of Korea that could find 10 players and move in together. Why is money an issue? As I said we ALL pay rent/living costs. Why does it cost more to cram yourself in with other players? I mean if you stick 8 people in the same room, as the Koreans are willing to do, then it would cost less! I am a glutton convinced that I can somehow fit logic into your illogical mind. You ask dumb questions without taking the time to think of a simple answer. Then when you receive answers you knock them. When I speak about sheer numbers I speak mostly in terms of Brood War. Where there has been next to 0 success from the foreign scene on a top tier level. Response to a) : Where do you ACTUALLY see Foreign pros competing with Koreans without pro houses? At MLG I saw Idra compete with Koreans. That is it. Who as you would know if you paid any attention since you became an expert of esports when you bought SC2 6 monthes ago and made a tl account, that he lived in a team house for SEVERAL years in Brood War, and LIVES in a team house NOW. Why are you failing to understand? Lastly, where do you think 19 year old gamers have money to pay for a team house with equipment, and the capability of traveling across the country if not world to compete in tournaments. Well I guess they could work 8 hours a day. Oh, but then they wouldn't be playing starcraft full time, which in turn would defeat the purpose of having a team house to begin with.
Hey bro, if you want to rely on embedding insults to me in your argument then be my guest. Its not going to get a rise out of me. Team liquid has a standard, I may be new to it, but your post and attitude looks like it falls well short.
My point, which you either can't or won't grasp, is THAT TEAMHOUSES ARE IMPORTANT. Why don't foreigners have them? As I have repeatedly said, all of the foreign pros live in houses, so why not live together? Are you saying that these foreign pros live at home with their parents and therefore can't afford it?
Now I know that doesn't apply to 'rising stars' (ie 17 year old stars, who do still live at home). But foreign pros ARE competing with Koreans. MLG was a bit onesided, granted. But take a wider sample of tournaments - Jinro, Huk, Dimaga & TT1 in the GSL World Championship, White Ra, THE TSL WINNERS FFS. There are plenty of examples showing that, at this stage, the raw skill is there to compete. Considering we don't have the huge advantage of pro houses, it shows we have the skill to do it.
So get pro houses, make some sacrifice to achieve your dream.
Or don't, I have no personal issue with your choices, but don't complain that "they have prohouses and we can't" is a legitimate argument
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On June 17 2011 17:47 inamorato wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 17:38 drop271 wrote:edit: @Xadar (above) the point is that he misconstrues all the foreign fans, that are making it possible for MLG to have a massive tournament, as fans of foreign players. We're not. We're fans of esports. Catz can have an NA only tournament if he wants, fans may watch, they might not, but I would rather see some Koreans, and I think many people would, which means the prize money on offer for a NA only tournament would probably be lower than for MLG. On June 17 2011 17:34 inamorato wrote:
Again simple questions have simple answers. A lot of the legitimate American teams already have intentions to develop team houses or already have. The only difference is in Korea it means something to be a professional gamer, and to live in a REAL team house.
I have to assume that you weren't involved when Broodwar was prime or are even involved now because a team house in Korea doesn't simply consist of 5 players. There are thousands of 17 year old Koreans who've gone through team houses just to simply be practice partners for the teams aces. Few ever make it, but the sheer quantity of potential players is 100 fold what America is. To them you don't hear selfish comments such as Catz about money. It is much more than the money to them. To have an opportunity to be a practice partner for an S player is a form of success in itself, and is enough motivation to commit 14 hours a day for these people.
To answer your question of the barrier. Overall money is a barrier. Because as much as money doesn't matter to most of the individual players in Korea, it matters to the investors. Team houses didn't sprout over night, it took growth for the nation and sport to intertwine. Which will eventually happen in America if esports is to truly succeed for Americans. It is nothing to invest money such as NASL for a tournament where your money is guaranteed, but to invest money for a team, coach, house, equipment on the off chance that the investor will generate a profit as a label is completely different. a) the fact that Foreign pros are competing with Koreans without pro houses shows that the number of players argument is invalid. There are obviously enough players with raw talent outside of Korea that could find 10 players and move in together. Why is money an issue? As I said we ALL pay rent/living costs. Why does it cost more to cram yourself in with other players? I mean if you stick 8 people in the same room, as the Koreans are willing to do, then it would cost less! I am a glutton convinced that I can somehow fit logic into your illogical mind. You ask dumb questions without taking the time to think of a simple answer. Then when you receive answers you knock them. When I speak about sheer numbers I speak mostly in terms of Brood War. Where there has been next to 0 success from the foreign scene on a top tier level. Even in terms of Starcraft 2, how many foreigners do you see consistently placing in tournaments where Koreans participate. Let me answer, none. Numbers with dedication in Korea squashes foreigners in comparison. Response to a) : Where do you ACTUALLY see Foreign pros competing with Koreans without pro houses? At MLG I saw Idra compete with Koreans. That is it. Who as you would know if you paid any attention since you became an expert of esports when you bought SC2 6 monthes ago and made a tl account, that he lived in a team house for SEVERAL years in Brood War, and LIVES in a team house NOW. Why are you failing to understand? Lastly, where do you think 19 year old gamers have money to pay for a team house with equipment, and the capability of traveling across the country if not world to compete in tournaments. Well I guess they could work 8 hours a day. Oh, but then they wouldn't be playing starcraft full time, which in turn would defeat the purpose of having a team house to begin with.
so its all come down to expectation
13/14 years old Korean who are good enough to be accepted to teamhouse are living in one room with 5-6 other people and eat instant noodle almost exclusively while playing starcraft 24/7
A small team with a local sponsor can easily afford to pay this for 2-3 months untill they started winning and get more name hence more sponsor
but do the western 'pro' willing to live like this is the real question
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i understand what Catz is saying. He makes some valid points. And you know what? I would take him for his word if a riot ensued after MLG because the Koreans took all the money, or if no one showed up and everyone had a piss poor time. However, we all know what happened at Columbus, we all know it was one of the greatest SC2 tournaments to date, and we all KNOW that it did NOT hurt esports. It fking helped esports!
So when Catz says it will hurt esports.....the discussion ends there and his points become invalid.
my 2 cents.
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Most of the time I see interviews with Catz he just seems bitter about something. Problem with that interview is he does not get his point across very well. I kind of understand what he is tring to say (no mater how wrong it is), but in the end it comes down to him being a realist, knowing that he will never ever win a tournament that has top Koreans.
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fanbase grows if there is local players playing the sport. i really don't know how anyone cannot see that it makes sense. there of course should still be international leagues and tournaments...
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On June 17 2011 17:43 Bombmk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 17:38 legaton wrote:On June 17 2011 17:32 Bombmk wrote:
How many here honestly thinks that SC:BW would have taken off in Korea like it did, if there was pro US and EU players coming over and winning the bigger tournaments again and again?
Who would pay for pro-houses to house a lot of number 3's and 4's?
You mean like Grrr and Elky? (Even if they didn't win that much). So actually not like them?
didnt grrr win a starleague..?
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I agree with Catz to an extent. I believe any tournament in the 'West' shouldn't discriminate who plays in it, but at the same time shouldn't be extending it's hand to certain [Korean] players.
If a Korean player approaches his coach / Team Manager and says "Hey, I was eliminated in R64 in GSL, can I leave for a weekend to play at MLG?" that would make much more sense than inviting 4 and putting them in a championship bracket.
I really feel like inviting Koreans into Western tournaments was like opening Pandora's box. Sure it was exciting to see a few Koreans tear up their first MLG, but where will we be 1 year from now? MLG flooded with Koreans and foreigners trying and failing in Code A.
We all know we got the short end of the stick in the trade. Foreigners won't be winning in the GSL nearly as much as the Koreans will in MLG.
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On June 17 2011 18:08 KULA_u wrote:
fanbase grows if there is local players playing the sport. i really don't know how anyone cannot see that it makes sense. there of course should still be international leagues and tournaments...
Totally fair. Just don't expect the same viewership, sponsors and prizes as MLG Columbus had if you limit the level of talent on show
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You can never beat Koreans if you don't compete with them on a regular basis.
That's a fact.
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About the video itself, I don't get why Joshy would continue taping when CatZ is having a total collapse in terms of his train of thought. Why not cut and retape?
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On June 17 2011 18:17 Kickboxer wrote:
You can never beat Koreans if you don't compete with them on a regular basis.
That's a fact.
WhiteRa, Dimaga and TT1 did....
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On June 17 2011 11:39 MidnightSun001 wrote:
A simple economical formula that most students know:
GDP=C+I+G+(X-M)
What CatZ is talking about is the "(X-M)" part which stands for net exports. It is the diffrence of export versus import. When import is higher than export (money leaks) GDP is smaller. If consumers buy more foreign products than local ones, net export is negative. In other words, buying goods from a foreign country fuels money to that country's economy, while your country gets into shit financial situation if this phenomena is en masse.
The GDP of what exactly? The USA :D? Giving money to US players over Korean players doesn't really benefit a tournament, at least I don't see how. The SC2 tournament scene is benefiting from having Koreans over since it makes the competition better and brings in more interest (i.e. more stream views, attendance, w/e). This kind of "deal" is only hurting "the GDP" of the foreign players, especially the ones who are not really "top tier" (no offense intended) and would be getting a couple hundred dollars here and there, while they're getting practically nothing with the Koreans at the top of every major tournament. Imagine what will happen if Bnet 2.0 ever gets fixed and "low level" Koreans start competing in the weekly online events.
So, does the foreign community really want to alienate the Koreans? Well, it might be worth a try - in the short term, foreign players will benefit, while tournament organizers might take a very small hit (probably more than worth it when compared to accommodation costs for the Koreans (MLG)). What would happen in the long term is hard to predict, but the only example we have from the past is BW. Sure, there never was a foreign pro scene in BW like there is now in SC2, but I can't help but think that that was somewhat due to the fact that foreign BW was kind of like "the special Olympics" of BW - guess how much "special Olympics" athletes earn compared to Usain Bolt. (Btw, I mean no disrespect to special Olympics athletes - it's just a fact of life that very few people care about their results)
As a casual SC2 player and spectator, I'd much rather see top foreign players step up their game and compete with the Koreans (and beat them - which some of them can already do). I feel that, in the end, people really don't care where you're from. They just want to watch the best games. If you can't offer that, than maybe it's time to change professions and get another job - it's not the end of the world, millions of athletes do it every year.
The only possible downside is that a lot of foreign players will quit the game and that might be a problem for big events like MLG etc. But there's no reason to think that there won't be someone there to take their place... The ladders are full of people just waiting for their chance  .
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On June 17 2011 18:17 Kickboxer wrote:
You can never beat Koreans if you don't compete with them on a regular basis.
That's a fact.
Actually I think the opposite is true.
You can win using *foreign* strategy, but then once you are figured out, you must conform to the Korean style or perish.
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Disclaimer: I only managed to read up to page 4 of this antic. So please bear with me if this was all talked before
1. What is a pro gamer?
ROOT.Catz wrote:
It's ok to be a 'professional gamer' in korea, not even that, its great to be one. In the west, a lot of people would be afraid to say they're professional gamers ( before people start talking without base, by this I mean making $/living off the game, not skill ), When I say im a professional gamer, I have to explain for the following 10 minutes what that means and how its possible to generate revenue off of it. Last time I had to explain this to a couple of my friends that came over TT1 was sitting next to me and he said something like "I can't believe you told em that, im always to embarrassed to say im a professional gamer".
Catz is right. A profesional e-sport player doesn't have to be the best and always wins tournaments. He just have to make a living off the game. He does it by acquiring contracts with the sponsors (Stripe gum anyone?), revenue from the stream (Destiny needs you) and lastly from tournaments winnings (Thor is here). The most essential part about being pro is the ability to draw people, later fans to follow you (no. this is not facebook or twitter plug) and keeping them. Those fans are the biggest asset of the pro gamer. Having big fanbase puts a pro gamer in advantageous positions when it comes to tournaments and sponsors. Spots in high priced invitationals and so on.
Lets look at Idra. The prime example of western professional gamer.
When he was in korea during the BW days he was mostly unknown to the big masses. Only the little minority followed him (Sorry if i offended half of teamliquid forum saying that). Then came SC2 and Idra jumped the bandwagon. He decided to play Zerg (damm you Artosis) which at that time were starting to suffer from major nerfs due to constant blizzard's patches. He was soon known for very bad manner when he lose and calling everything imbalanced. Thanks to that he gathered lot of new fans. Then he left the korean team to join EG. This move changed a a underpaid pro into a high in demand, extremly medial pro gamer that could even change the loss in game into a business win later. Eg. MLG's both Dallas and Columbus. Answer yourself what do you remember from those events? Idra GGing to halu voidrays? Idra GGing after basically killing MMA? Those games became later topic of many discussions springing even more interest in Idra from normal people. Imagine on twitter what people not knowing about SC2 felt when they saw trending topic Idra (or before Jinro). Were they curious about it? Did they google it? A chance to get new fans by a pro gamer.
2. Influence of koreans pros on western e-sports scene
As was said before. People and viewers want them. Prime example being the TSL 3 and MLG Colombus.
Lets talk about TSL 3 first. First two rounds of the tournament, apart from the finals had the highest amount of viewers. After the koreans were slaughtered the amount of viewers dropped by more than a half for most of the games.
Now back to MLG Colombus. I bet some NA pros were suprised that they couldnt get into competition cause the player passes were sold out an oddity when compared to the MLG before.
The price pool didnt change, the format stayed the same. The only difference was the fact that there were few koreans invited. People at the venue wanted to see them, try playing versus them. Stream viewers wanted to see them. Were waiting for their victory celebration (MMA fireball at Idra - kill me i wasnt SF player) and to see if foreigners can take out koreans. More people at venue and on streams make it easier to get sponsors for new events and hopefully a increase in price pool. Imagine Sundance coming into a big company and saying. We had XXXX amount of people live at venue which was that venue maximum capacity. Also we had 2 satellite trucks doing internet transmision to 22 milion poeple during the duration of the event. We would show your commercial every 15-20 minutes depending on the length of the match. Did i mention that for us next event we would easly top those numers....
Would such conversation be possible without koreans playing? Imagine the same conversation with Dallas numbers....
Lets talk professional gamers at Columbus.
Idra - big win for him, All people would remember for years after was his game vs MMA
Thorzain - almost big win for him. Would have been better than Idra's if it wasn't for big MLG slip up. If his revenge match vs MC would have been shown he would win hands down vs Idra when it came to marketing value.
Catz - the big loser. He missed his biggest chance ever that was bestowed by esport god. Playing against July. If he played that game his stocks would go threw a roof. If he would lost and yet played with a ultra interesting style it would be a great win for him due to lots on new fans. If he would won.. Catching eternal fame, gazillion new fans, edollars rolling in.
Lets sum it up.
People want to see koreans play in western events hoping that there would be a hero that would rolfstomp them. Since people want it than the tournament organisers want it also. It gives them more attendance and more viewers.
So what can the western pros do. If they dont go to such event with some silly excuse their fans would rage and might stop following the said pro. But if he goes and still doesnt win but performs good vs the said koreans he could get more fans following him which could be converted into more edollars. If a pro gamer want to base his income only on big tournaments winnings he is better off buying lottery ticket.
A pro that can sustain himself off the game is in fact in need of koreans.
Fans would easly switch to some other western player if he keeps losing to him all the time. But in case of loses to koreans if the game was good he wouldnt lose the fans (short word for source of income) but would get more.
Ok those are my thought on the matter. I congratulate the reader who managed to get that far in reading it.
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On June 17 2011 18:11 CellTech wrote:
I agree with Catz to an extent. I believe any tournament in the 'West' shouldn't discriminate who plays in it, but at the same time shouldn't be extending it's hand to certain [Korean] players.
If a Korean player approaches his coach / Team Manager and says "Hey, I was eliminated in R64 in GSL, can I leave for a weekend to play at MLG?" that would make much more sense than inviting 4 and putting them in a championship bracket.
I really feel like inviting Koreans into Western tournaments was like opening Pandora's box. Sure it was exciting to see a few Koreans tear up their first MLG, but where will we be 1 year from now? MLG flooded with Koreans and foreigners trying and failing in Code A.
We all know we got the short end of the stick in the trade. Foreigners won't be winning in the GSL nearly as much as the Koreans will in MLG.
so you think MMA,Losira,Moon,MC and July will pay the $2000 flight ticket Anaheim + accomodation out of their own team pocket to have a shot at $5000 prize ?
I doubt it
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On June 17 2011 18:19 drop271 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 18:17 Kickboxer wrote:
You can never beat Koreans if you don't compete with them on a regular basis.
That's a fact. WhiteRa, Dimaga and TT1 did....
You've derailed this thread for your personal emotion for so long. If you were so schooled on their record vs Koreans you probably wouldn't continue to argue the skill level of foreigners vs Koreans. The only one you named to beat a Korean in a best of AT a live event is Dimage at GSL World Championship, which was Nestea. Then he lost immediately and was eliminated. Take your national pride out of it for long enough to realize that currently, Koreans are much better than foreingers.
You also fail to take into consideration that all of these players had seen their opponents play previously to their games against them, which means their more susceptible to being sniped. The Korean players had never even heard of most of these players let alone watched them play.
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EPT
