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On June 17 2011 18:00 sandyph wrote:
but do the western 'pro' willing to live like this is the real question
This is the question honestly.
After watching TLO's video about how they got a team house where everyone gets an individual room. You sort of understand why so few foreigners have team houses. It's higher overhead.
I've mentioned this at least 5 times on TL but no one ever answers, probably because I'm correct and none of the pros want to admit it.
They don't WANT to live like the korean progamers in Korea with multiple (4-5) people in one room. they all want their own privacy, which already increases the overhead cost of a foreigner house/apartment tremendously. Drop271 actually does bring up a valid point. Where there are individuals who are old enough to pack up, take a plane/bus across the United States with their belongings and their computer and just rent a place with a bunch of people and move in together.
Most of the progamers on teams who are older already have their own computer, and are usually paying rent for their own place. Why not save on the rent, move in with 4-5 people, and use the saved money on food and living costs. Seems TOTALLY reasonable to me. Sure it might have to be a mixed teamhouse. I don't get what's so "hard" to mimic in respects to some of the aspects of a team house. The practice regiment can't be that hard, you just need to sit there and play all day, and you have teammates to help you. The "support" aspect that housemates provide one another isn't something that has to be "learned", it should be natural, unless people are really that bad in social settings they don't know how to support a fellow housemate.
So once again it comes down to:
1. Are North Americans ready to live crammed up in an apartment? Because from what I've seen in the team house tours by Artosis, apartments like those would probably house 3-4 people "foreigner" pro gamers given how picky they are with living conditions
2. Are they willing to put nearly as much time practicing? And giving up other aspects of their life?
This are two things Korean progamers have already decided the moment they decide to become a progamer and live in a team house. If foreigners aren't ready to make sacrifices, you can't expect rewards.
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On June 17 2011 18:24 sandyph wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 18:11 CellTech wrote:
I agree with Catz to an extent. I believe any tournament in the 'West' shouldn't discriminate who plays in it, but at the same time shouldn't be extending it's hand to certain [Korean] players.
If a Korean player approaches his coach / Team Manager and says "Hey, I was eliminated in R64 in GSL, can I leave for a weekend to play at MLG?" that would make much more sense than inviting 4 and putting them in a championship bracket.
I really feel like inviting Koreans into Western tournaments was like opening Pandora's box. Sure it was exciting to see a few Koreans tear up their first MLG, but where will we be 1 year from now? MLG flooded with Koreans and foreigners trying and failing in Code A.
We all know we got the short end of the stick in the trade. Foreigners won't be winning in the GSL nearly as much as the Koreans will in MLG. so you think MMA,Losira,Moon,MC and July will pay the $2000 flight ticket Anaheim + accomodation out of their own team pocket to have a shot at $5000 prize ? I doubt it
I don't care how they pay for it, I believe exceptions shouldn't be made because they are Koreans from the GSL...
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On June 17 2011 17:39 inamorato wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 17:21 Ocedic wrote:On June 17 2011 17:12 inamorato wrote:On June 17 2011 17:00 drop271 wrote:
The teamhouse argument comes up a number of times. I think thats really strange, and if someone can clarify for me, then I'd greatly appreciate it.
As far as I can see, all a team house is is a fucking house with computers in it. We all live in houses, pay rent, and have our own computers. If you want to get better then move in with your teammates, or other great players, instead of your friends?
How is this so impossible to replicate? Its not like magic water in the taps is the key equation? These guys (foreign players) are working hard and trying to be the best in the world. Are people seriously arguing that the fact they are unwilling to move cities in order to co-locate is a major barrier?
Again, if I'm missing something, please correct me Living in a team house environment isn't limited to Starcraft. Take the time to understand what this type of environment has to offer instead of coming off with half cocked questions. It is the simple fact that to improve in anything you need to grow. Growth can be achieved through the help of others. It is the same for rehabilitation. Do you see people hosting 1 house drug rehabs? No, because an environment with support, structure, and the ability to evolve an idea as a group is much more efficient than as an individual. Relying solely on yourself to flourish in anything over an opportunity to grow as a team//community is foolish. The electricity of doing something you love with a group of people all focused on the same goal opens many more doors. You have the ability to thrive on other people's ideas, dedication, and sheer love for the game when you are feeling like you're ready to give up. What? You didn't even address anything in the post that you quoted, and offer some pointless drug rehab analogy. His post is perfectly legit: there's nothing special or magical about pro houses. It's a house with people living together who are teammates. On June 17 2011 17:18 rotegirte wrote:On June 17 2011 17:13 drop271 wrote:On June 17 2011 17:12 inamorato wrote:On June 17 2011 17:00 drop271 wrote:
The teamhouse argument comes up a number of times. I think thats really strange, and if someone can clarify for me, then I'd greatly appreciate it.
As far as I can see, all a team house is is a fucking house with computers in it. We all live in houses, pay rent, and have our own computers. If you want to get better then move in with your teammates, or other great players, instead of your friends?
How is this so impossible to replicate? Its not like magic water in the taps is the key equation? These guys (foreign players) are working hard and trying to be the best in the world. Are people seriously arguing that the fact they are unwilling to move cities in order to co-locate is a major barrier?
Again, if I'm missing something, please correct me Living in a team house environment isn't limited to Starcraft. Take the time to understand what this type of environment has to offer instead of coming off with half cocked questions. It is the simple fact that to improve in anything you need to grow. Growth can be achieved through the help of others. It is the same for rehabilitation. Do you see people hosting 1 house drug rehabs? No, because an environment with support, structure, and the ability to evolve an idea as a group is much more efficient than as an individual. Relying solely on yourself to flourish in anything over an opportunity to grow as a team//community is foolish. The electricity of doing something you love with a group of people all focused on the same goal opens many more doors. You have the ability to thrive on other people's ideas, dedication, and sheer love for the game when you are feeling like you're ready to give up. Please read my post and refrain from calling someone half-cocked. As I said, if team houses are so important (and I agree they are) then why aren't foreign players making them? Whats the barrier? Go ahead, make one. Return if you run into any problems. Dumb logical fallacy. Have you even moved out of your parents' house? Ever find housing for yourself? Find roommates, whether with friends or strangers? Was it that hard? Are pro-gamers helpless little children or something? Heck, many on sponsored teams have MANAGERS who should be taking care of this stuff. FXO managed to set up a pro house in MALAYSIA. What is the purpose of your post? To enlighten me that my reply doesn't meet legitimate standard? I'm so glad you were able to pinpoint how me and another poster were unable to give sufficient analogies while you managed to contribute nothing aside from being fucking robocop. Instead of derailing other peoples comments//replies with negative remarks and not even suggesting an opinion of your own to the original questions, how about you just blank edit your post?
Wth does legitimate standard even mean? When did I say anything about sufficient analogies? Your arguments are flawed and I pointed out why. Instead of taking it personally, how about you try and use logic/reason to retort? You called that guy's solution 'half-cocked,' which was pretty non-constructive, so I don't get why you're acting like I just spit in your face or something.
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On June 17 2011 18:25 inamorato wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 18:19 drop271 wrote:On June 17 2011 18:17 Kickboxer wrote:
You can never beat Koreans if you don't compete with them on a regular basis.
That's a fact. WhiteRa, Dimaga and TT1 did.... You've derailed this thread for your personal emotion for so long. If you were so schooled on their record vs Koreans you probably wouldn't continue to argue the skill level of foreigners vs Koreans. The only one you named to beat a Korean in a best of AT a live event is Dimage at GSL World Championship, which was Nestea. Then he lost immediately and was eliminated. Take your national pride out of it for long enough to realize that currently, Koreans are much better than foreingers.
I'm well aware of their record, keep making it personal mate, it doesn't make your argument look any better. The fact is - if they can compete at all, without the aid of prohouses, then it means they are at least in the ball park. So get prohouses and see what happens? You seem to argue that prohouse or not, foreigners are screwed. That is simply not the case (TSL mate?)
National pride? read my location. I've got nothing vested in any of these guy's success.
To me, this sums up you:
Realise you're wrong in an argument
Not willing to admit it
Pick off an easy point to get the last word
?????
Profit?
edit: we have had our little argument enough though, so ahve the last word and PM me if you want. It seems enough people grasp my point and can argue it without me putting my 2cents in
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On June 17 2011 18:29 Ocedic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 17:39 inamorato wrote:On June 17 2011 17:21 Ocedic wrote:On June 17 2011 17:12 inamorato wrote:On June 17 2011 17:00 drop271 wrote:
The teamhouse argument comes up a number of times. I think thats really strange, and if someone can clarify for me, then I'd greatly appreciate it.
As far as I can see, all a team house is is a fucking house with computers in it. We all live in houses, pay rent, and have our own computers. If you want to get better then move in with your teammates, or other great players, instead of your friends?
How is this so impossible to replicate? Its not like magic water in the taps is the key equation? These guys (foreign players) are working hard and trying to be the best in the world. Are people seriously arguing that the fact they are unwilling to move cities in order to co-locate is a major barrier?
Again, if I'm missing something, please correct me Living in a team house environment isn't limited to Starcraft. Take the time to understand what this type of environment has to offer instead of coming off with half cocked questions. It is the simple fact that to improve in anything you need to grow. Growth can be achieved through the help of others. It is the same for rehabilitation. Do you see people hosting 1 house drug rehabs? No, because an environment with support, structure, and the ability to evolve an idea as a group is much more efficient than as an individual. Relying solely on yourself to flourish in anything over an opportunity to grow as a team//community is foolish. The electricity of doing something you love with a group of people all focused on the same goal opens many more doors. You have the ability to thrive on other people's ideas, dedication, and sheer love for the game when you are feeling like you're ready to give up. What? You didn't even address anything in the post that you quoted, and offer some pointless drug rehab analogy. His post is perfectly legit: there's nothing special or magical about pro houses. It's a house with people living together who are teammates. On June 17 2011 17:18 rotegirte wrote:On June 17 2011 17:13 drop271 wrote:On June 17 2011 17:12 inamorato wrote:On June 17 2011 17:00 drop271 wrote:
The teamhouse argument comes up a number of times. I think thats really strange, and if someone can clarify for me, then I'd greatly appreciate it.
As far as I can see, all a team house is is a fucking house with computers in it. We all live in houses, pay rent, and have our own computers. If you want to get better then move in with your teammates, or other great players, instead of your friends?
How is this so impossible to replicate? Its not like magic water in the taps is the key equation? These guys (foreign players) are working hard and trying to be the best in the world. Are people seriously arguing that the fact they are unwilling to move cities in order to co-locate is a major barrier?
Again, if I'm missing something, please correct me Living in a team house environment isn't limited to Starcraft. Take the time to understand what this type of environment has to offer instead of coming off with half cocked questions. It is the simple fact that to improve in anything you need to grow. Growth can be achieved through the help of others. It is the same for rehabilitation. Do you see people hosting 1 house drug rehabs? No, because an environment with support, structure, and the ability to evolve an idea as a group is much more efficient than as an individual. Relying solely on yourself to flourish in anything over an opportunity to grow as a team//community is foolish. The electricity of doing something you love with a group of people all focused on the same goal opens many more doors. You have the ability to thrive on other people's ideas, dedication, and sheer love for the game when you are feeling like you're ready to give up. Please read my post and refrain from calling someone half-cocked. As I said, if team houses are so important (and I agree they are) then why aren't foreign players making them? Whats the barrier? Go ahead, make one. Return if you run into any problems. Dumb logical fallacy. Have you even moved out of your parents' house? Ever find housing for yourself? Find roommates, whether with friends or strangers? Was it that hard? Are pro-gamers helpless little children or something? Heck, many on sponsored teams have MANAGERS who should be taking care of this stuff. FXO managed to set up a pro house in MALAYSIA. What is the purpose of your post? To enlighten me that my reply doesn't meet legitimate standard? I'm so glad you were able to pinpoint how me and another poster were unable to give sufficient analogies while you managed to contribute nothing aside from being fucking robocop. Instead of derailing other peoples comments//replies with negative remarks and not even suggesting an opinion of your own to the original questions, how about you just blank edit your post? Wth does legitimate standard even mean? When did I say anything about sufficient analogies? Your arguments are flawed and I pointed out why. Instead of taking it personally, how about you try and use logic/reason to retort? You called that guy's solution 'half-cocked,' which was pretty non-constructive, so I don't get why you're acting like I just spit in your face or something.
Actually I had called his question "half-cocked" which immediately puts you under investigation for you lack of comprehension. I also point out that you yourself contributed nothing to the questions in this thread or the OP. You simply just took time to rage on myself and another poster because our answers weren't up to your personal standards.
On June 17 2011 18:31 drop271 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 18:25 inamorato wrote:On June 17 2011 18:19 drop271 wrote:On June 17 2011 18:17 Kickboxer wrote:
You can never beat Koreans if you don't compete with them on a regular basis.
That's a fact. WhiteRa, Dimaga and TT1 did.... You've derailed this thread for your personal emotion for so long. If you were so schooled on their record vs Koreans you probably wouldn't continue to argue the skill level of foreigners vs Koreans. The only one you named to beat a Korean in a best of AT a live event is Dimage at GSL World Championship, which was Nestea. Then he lost immediately and was eliminated. Take your national pride out of it for long enough to realize that currently, Koreans are much better than foreingers. I'm well aware of their record, keep making it personal mate, it doesn't make your argument look any better. The fact is - if they can compete at all, without the aid of prohouses, then it means they are at least in the ball park. So get prohouses and see what happens? You seem to argue that prohouse or not, foreigners are screwed. That is simply not the case (TSL mate?) National pride? read my location. I've got nothing vested in any of these guy's success. To me, this sums up you: Realise you're wrong in an argument Not willing to admit it Pick off an easy point to get the last word ????? Profit?
I am just not aware of what your point is. You ask numerous questions, then when you aren't satisfied with the answers you combat in any way you can. Then you continue to split hairs anytime someone states that foreigners can't compete with Koreans. If you read my previous post you would notice that I had said AT a LIVE event. Which means to be physically present AT a tournament "mate". TSL3 was one incident, which was online, which again is another instance of Korean professionals being sniped by players who watched them play since GSL Open. Make a legitimate point or stop ranting.
As far as I am concerned I am done posting in this thread or responding to you ever again simply because of the relentless dereliction and degradation you display time after time.
Good Luck
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On June 17 2011 18:28 CellTech wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 18:24 sandyph wrote:On June 17 2011 18:11 CellTech wrote:
I agree with Catz to an extent. I believe any tournament in the 'West' shouldn't discriminate who plays in it, but at the same time shouldn't be extending it's hand to certain [Korean] players.
If a Korean player approaches his coach / Team Manager and says "Hey, I was eliminated in R64 in GSL, can I leave for a weekend to play at MLG?" that would make much more sense than inviting 4 and putting them in a championship bracket.
I really feel like inviting Koreans into Western tournaments was like opening Pandora's box. Sure it was exciting to see a few Koreans tear up their first MLG, but where will we be 1 year from now? MLG flooded with Koreans and foreigners trying and failing in Code A.
We all know we got the short end of the stick in the trade. Foreigners won't be winning in the GSL nearly as much as the Koreans will in MLG. so you think MMA,Losira,Moon,MC and July will pay the $2000 flight ticket Anaheim + accomodation out of their own team pocket to have a shot at $5000 prize ? I doubt it I don't care how they pay for it, I believe exceptions shouldn't be made because they are Koreans from the GSL...
well the only reason they came to Colombus was because MLG was paying the whole bill (and CSN for July)
just like GOM will pay the bill to bring Thorzain, Naniwa, ??? and Sase over to compete in GSL
in Anaheim those 4 people wont get the same treatment and I doubt they are willing to pay on their own (except maybe MMA) so we will only see another 5 korean in Anaheim (the 4 GSL invite + MMA)
and the same will happen on the next MLG where only the 4 that get their expense paid by MLG will be there and so on
so I dont think we will ever see a 16 Korean pool play like many of the Pro feared
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I understand Catz view but still, I think its not fair and besides plane ticket is extremly expensive, so even if they win, they have to pay for plane...
As well as they will pay food, buy gifts etc during their visit 
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Besides, if you watched yesterday Morrow vs Nada, it's a proof that top level EU-USA can compete at korean level so... =)
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Honestly I fail to see how Korean competition discourages pro-gamers from competing or hurts tournaments.
First of all: they're good. No doubt about that.
And people like winners.
So they're popular.
And they bring in viewers, Western AND Korean
It's a strange trend where Western viewers like to watch Koreans but Koreans don't like to watch Westerners unless Koreans are involved.
So if you have a Korean competing in a tournament the viewership is increased.
More viewers = more money.
As sponsors look at inflated viewerships in tournaments, they're encouraged to sponsor or advertise in these tournaments because it helps them out.
They don't care about WHO is competing, they're caring about how many eyes are watching, and how many eyes can see their logo.
And honestly, is any number of people going to boycott a tournament because there are Koreans?
That sponsorship money goes into the tournament winnings, and also pays the people running the tournament. It also gives extra capital for the NEXT tournament, and higher production values can be assumed, and bigger prize pools. Meaning more and more viewers and good for esports (this is assuming nothing goes terribly terribly wrong).
Now, Koreans aren't competing in every tournament; and they're certainly not coming in great numbers. (But the ones who do show are the most competitive).
That's because it costs money to send players from a Country so far away from the Western E-Sports scene.
A lot of people think that Korean participation in tournaments is a problem because a lot of those people see them in big name tournaments like MLG where you're forced to actually be there in person.
But what's the problem?
It clearly doesn't hurt tournaments; the hype from having MC, Losira etc probably increased viewership and excited the sc2 fanbase.
The "problem" seems to be that Koreans will take the prize money away from our beloved foreigners.
wtf?
That money isn't entitled to anybody. It's offered by tournament organizers hoping to entice worldclass players to compete in spectacular games which will draw viewers to enjoy and partake.
And there's one simple solution if you want that money: play better. Practice more.
Yeah, it might make it easier for the players, but it doesn't HELP the tournament itself and wouldn't allow for growth since nobody would be interested in it if there are only no names in the tournament. THAT would hurt eSports because the tournament organizers would be running a shitty tournament!
There are so many small tournaments right now, go look at the tournament tracker.
And so many of them don't have Koreans in them because of latency issues with Korea/time zone
conflicts.
If people are worried that the little guy is going to be hampered from the skill disparity, don't be because there are plenty of "sheltered" tournaments out there. And if people want the little guy to get a lot of money from big tournaments, he better play and EARN it.
The arguments in this thread have turned into Koreans are OP because they get to practice more because they have better player houses.
First off I have to say that there's really nothing to stop Foreigner teams from making player houses. SEVERAL ALREADY HAVE.
People are arguing that money is the issue, and I can assure you that it is NOT.
THERE ARE TEAMS FOR A REASON!
They aren't living tournament winnings to tournament winnings, teams have sponsorship deals and they're able to do this 24/7.
Anyone is capable of moving in with friends and such; every (real) sc2 team is more than capable of making a player house if THEY choose to.
And honestly I know I'm going to be repudiated for this post but here's the bottom line for any professional gamer: If you want to win, you better work hard for it and not make excuses. And if you're not willing to take up the challenge then you're not cut out for it.
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No offense, but I don't like it when people who have little insight into the esports industry (or marketing in general) back their opinions using economic formulas and non-related examples. A SC2 player and his reputation is no tradable good that could be explained via the concept of GDP. To analyze the situation regarding Korean players in Western competitions, you have to think about the value they bring to the table and the effects that their successful participation has on the non-Korean players. There are lots of aspects to consider and it's not easy to find a definite answer. There is nothing wrong about discussing pros and cons on a platform like TeamLiquid – just don't come up with alleged "scientific proof".
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There is just one fundamental flaw in this post.
Prize money is not what is going to support domestic e-sports unless we're talking about huge amounts of money. For a post focused around the "purely economical" this is a massive oversight.
Prize money is something selfish, short-sighted players will talk about in immediate terms because that's their immediate goal.
However, that is not how the economics of this situation works.
Take this recent MLG for example. It was by many accounts a very successful event and there is little doubt that the Korean invites contributed greatly to that success. Even though it was a Korean top 3, the crowd didn't seem turned-off by the fact an American wasn't on stage. It's great to see that gamers have largely skipped over the phase of racism or patriotism that has plagued some other sports and sees the game for what matters, good play.
The Koreans might take home the prize money, but they won't take home the interest generated for MLG events, the interest generated for SC2, the interest generated for e-sports, the increased fan-base, the stream revenue, the increased likelihood of getting sponsors interested due to it being an international event with international appeal, etc. Korea will of course benefit in their own ways, but the domestic gains for the US will no doubt be larger seeing as it was a US event.
So you can see that prize money as a payment for advertisement. See it like how the NBA, NFL, MLB, etc. will give a player a contract not necessarily only because they are good, but because they sell tickets and help popularize the sport.
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On June 17 2011 18:34 sandyph wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 18:28 CellTech wrote:On June 17 2011 18:24 sandyph wrote:On June 17 2011 18:11 CellTech wrote:
I agree with Catz to an extent. I believe any tournament in the 'West' shouldn't discriminate who plays in it, but at the same time shouldn't be extending it's hand to certain [Korean] players.
If a Korean player approaches his coach / Team Manager and says "Hey, I was eliminated in R64 in GSL, can I leave for a weekend to play at MLG?" that would make much more sense than inviting 4 and putting them in a championship bracket.
I really feel like inviting Koreans into Western tournaments was like opening Pandora's box. Sure it was exciting to see a few Koreans tear up their first MLG, but where will we be 1 year from now? MLG flooded with Koreans and foreigners trying and failing in Code A.
We all know we got the short end of the stick in the trade. Foreigners won't be winning in the GSL nearly as much as the Koreans will in MLG. so you think MMA,Losira,Moon,MC and July will pay the $2000 flight ticket Anaheim + accomodation out of their own team pocket to have a shot at $5000 prize ? I doubt it I don't care how they pay for it, I believe exceptions shouldn't be made because they are Koreans from the GSL... well the only reason they came to Colombus was because MLG was paying the whole bill (and CSN for July) just like GOM will pay the bill to bring Thorzain, Naniwa, ??? and Sase over to compete in GSL in Anaheim those 4 people wont get the same treatment and I doubt they are willing to pay on their own (except maybe MMA) so we will only see another 5 korean in Anaheim (the 4 GSL invite + MMA) and the same will happen on the next MLG where only the 4 that get their expense paid by MLG will be there and so on so I dont think we will ever see a 16 Korean pool play like many of the Pro feared
Exactly, it was an exchange program between GSL and MLG. It was a win-win situation for both party as well as their sponsors, it draws in so much more revenue.
It is also great opportunity for players that is actually dedicated enough to reach the top instead of whining.
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I haven't read through the whole thread, so forgive me if I repeat, but:
The macroeconomic concept is totally moot. A simple concept in microeconomics is that when monopolistic competition (in this case progamers and the events) or really, anything in the free market, needs an incentive to compete. In this case, if there are no Koreans to play against, the skill level with not rise, the foreign scene will fall behind like SC:BW again, and MLG/NASL will not get revenue cos everyone wants to watch koreans. (Note monopolistic competition is used for BOTH the progamers and the events in this example, kind of awkward, but tournaments sort of fall out of the norm from the normal business model).
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I am on the opinion that if Koreans continue to compete in foreign tourneys, foreign players will get better at the game. As well as the games are going to be watched by more people.
To understand Catz's opinion we have to see that he was in a different position than others. Exposure is far more important for the players than prize money. For Catz this was not so because at the time he was part of a team that struggled with acquiring sponsors. So unfortunately for him the only way to comfortably continue to compete, which is an enormous investment without sponsors, was to win on several occasions. It is completely understandable that he wanted the prize money to benefit foreigners, not Koreans.
Imagine an IPL season 1 throughout a year. Let's say a high level player but not a top player like cruncher wants to win. He has to practice for people like kiwikaki, idra, select, the top of the top in his realm. He might become better but what about the top players? They wouldn't really have to practice. The power would shift very slowly, the same people would finish on top over and over again. The tournaments would get less viewers.
A good point that idra and incontrol made on inside the game is that too much Koreans are as bad as no Koreans. The World against Korea theme would be lost. Looking at how many Koreans dropped out of Dreamhack, I believe there is no such threat.
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I agree with Catz, people have to feel they can win something in order to work harder. If they see those Korean giants invited many players will surely be discouraged.
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On June 17 2011 18:46 Skygrinder wrote:
I agree with Catz, people have to feel they can win something in order to work harder. If they see those Korean giants invited many players will surely be discouraged.
Esports is brutal, it isn't as developed as other real sports, if he can't do it perhaps he shouldn't treat it as a career, because he is being unrealistic.
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On June 17 2011 18:46 Skygrinder wrote:
I agree with Catz, people have to feel they can win something in order to work harder. If they see those Korean giants invited many players will surely be discouraged.
The main problem again is (if you want it in economic/business terms) if people lose or never had a competitive advantage in the first place (ie. living in a team house, quitting school in pursuit of more years training early, etc) then they shouldn't be pro-gamers in the first place. They're just not cut out to ever compete with people who take the business more seriously.
Koreans give up a lot to go pro. If foreigners want to succeed they should be expected to do the same. IdrA is a strong example of a foreigner who understands this, and despite his leave from Korean training atmosphere, still remains one of the stronger competitors in the foreign scene and also in the korean scene. Foreigners shouldn't expect esports to accommodate them by dampening the entertainment from esports with easier competition. That would be detrimental to the industry because there would always be an iron curtain separating Koreans from what should ideally be an international activity.
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On June 17 2011 18:46 Skygrinder wrote:
I agree with Catz, people have to feel they can win something in order to work harder. If they see those Korean giants invited many players will surely be discouraged.
You don't have to feel like you can win the tournament to work hard. Not every 32 teams in the World cup thinks they can win it, but they all have a goal, be it round of 16, quarterfinal or others. Set a goal, and train and work towards it!
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I think na is too weak at the moment to create high skilled tournaments. If they just take few players from eu and kr some na players can still excell above the rest and they have some competition which is good for their growth. I am not a fan of not playing against good players, trying to create a competition within a country(continent in this case).
My biggest exemple for this is cycling, in France there are a lot of pro-cyclist, but a lot of france cyclist only compete in small tournaments inside of France. This is resulting in a weak pool of cyclist that can't compete in the bigger tournaments because they are not used to the skill difference being so big. And it takes time to adapt to a certain skill level.
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EPT
