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GomTV caster: "Growth of e-sports" - Page 7

Forum Index > SC2 General
659 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 33 Next All
Syben
Profile Joined October 2010
United States512 Posts
May 27 2011 12:03 GMT
#121
I am very very pleased with how GOMTV is taking the initiative to spread esports and create opportunities for foreign players. I think if they can find a way to provide earlier information to the teams and players that we will most definitely be seeing more foreigners in the GSL/GSTL, especially with all the money that is now being poured into the SC2 sponsorships. I know this is not my place to give advice because I am in no way in the situation or have all the information teams do, but I think if their players are good enough that they should take a risk and give it a whirl in Korea.
Definitely gonna switch to G, the only race I havent played yet. - TLO
Juke290
Profile Joined March 2011
Egypt316 Posts
May 27 2011 12:03 GMT
#122
On May 27 2011 19:47 Parapa wrote:
Hello Teamliquid

My name is Chae Jung Won and I’m both GSL Code S commentator and manager of GSL operation team.

I’ve been reading the recent threads which have been posted at teamliquid.net.
Lot of foreign players have listed the reasons for why it’s difficult for them to come to Korea and participate in GSL. While I understand some of these, I do not understand others.

First of all I want make it clear that the purpose of this thread is not to rebut the posts I mentioned above. The decision whether to make sacrifices to attend a tournament which is extremely competitive or not is completely up to one’s own and I respect that. The only thing I’m upset about is that most of the reasons mentioned are something GOMTV can’t solve(I doubt anyone can), and as for the problems that can be solved, GOMTV is doing its best to find solution.
It’s just that this is easier said than done, because there are many things that needs to be considered, lot more than people realize.

Think of it this way. Let’s assume that there is backward universe; There is LAN tournament with equivalent size and prize pool as GSL in USA and tournaments in Korea are mostly online. If MVP, MC, Nestea and MKP were to be invited to States to participate in LAN tournament for a month(and they will be provided a place to sleep and practice like GOMTV is providing now), would they decide to go to US?
I am 100% confident that they would go. They will all fly to States to achieve their dream. Why? Simple : The tournament is worth the effort and these players have the skill to win. If you win you receive 50 thousand dollars and gain popularity from Starcraft2 fans all around the world. Barriers such as “culture/language difference” are worth enduring for such fame and money and should not be a big problem. Such barriers can be overcome if one is willing to put effort.

I am also aware that reaction on Korean community sites about foreign players declining invitation to Super Tournament because of its schedule have been translated and posted on teamliquid.net.
There seems to be misunderstanding and it must be made clear that those opinions were solely about Super Tournament. I understand that in GSL regular season, making it to Code S beginning from Code A is very difficult for foreign players as there is too much to risk, and that is why we made League Exchange program with MLG. However my interview that was posted on PlayXP was response regarding an anonymous Fnatic person’s answer concerning Super Tournament, who gave reasons such as “1month is too long” “prize pool is not deep enough” “there is language barrier”. I was little startled when the interview was posted as the tone was much more aggressive than I actually had felt. At the time I was doing the interview, my feelings were more like “hmm? Interesting”.

Now enough about the misunderstanding, as I’m sure many of you are tired of it as there was discussion thread about it for a week. I’ll move on the good news.

As many of you are aware new GSL format will be applied in July.
I’ve read many posts on teamliquid.net that people want to see more GSTL and also poll between GSL and GSTL.
There have been many same requests from Koreans too and after long consideration I have changed the format more focusing on team leagues.

However the problem with new format is that it makes it difficult for foreign teams to participate in team league as they will have to stay in Korea for 2 months.

I tried my best to solve this problem and although I admit this is not the perfect solution here it is.

Firstly, “Foreign players can now participate as a mercenary in Korean team”.
You may be able to see Jinro or Huk as member of oGs-TL in team league.

Accordingly, foreign players who come to Korea through MLG League Exchange, Rakaka tournament in Sweden, or come by themselves and qualify will not only be able to participate individual league but can also participate in GSTL as part of Korean team.

I cannot “force” the Korean teams to accept foreign players to their roster and have them play at least one set per match. However, Korean teams are willing to form alliance or partnership with foreign teams and they have stated that they will be happy to accept if there is any foreign team or player willing to join force. In fact Korean teams are very eager to recruit able foreign players.

If any foreign player who is entering GSL individual league and also wants to be part of team league feel free to contact either me or my assistant John. Through cooperation with Korean teams you will be provided with better practicing environment and opportunity to be part of GSTL.

Also I am open to idea of non-Korean team coming to Korean and play in GSTL. I’ve already received been contacted by certain team showing great interest and will soon make an announcement which will be huge surprise to many of you.

I have provided “opportunity” through “system”, and “opportunity” is all that I can provide. Creating “results” is not my job but up to the players themselves, through their will and amount of practice.

Super Tournament is being held at the moment.
I am always open to your opinions.
I do not want SC2 to be just Korean e-sports thing like Brood War was.
My goal is to make a league which viewers all around the world can enjoy and get hyped when watching.

I was 1st generation pro-gamer myself(I’m still in TLPD) and have been working in e-sports over 10 years.

Many of things that are happening now in e-sports are changes that never happened in past 10 years. I’m sure that you too feel that e-sports is evolving rapidly.
If e-sports players and technology is running at 100km/h and if GSL and other tournaments can keep up with the speed we can create many wonderful things which we only dreamed of past 10 years.

I’m always grateful to viewers who watch GSL. I will soon get back to you with great news Also I will be attending MLG Columbus together with players from Korea. I have decided to go to MLG to witness the enthusiasm of American fans with my own eyes.

Thank you



Fantastic response, to summarize it very basic.
Lynkilen
Profile Joined September 2010
Norway211 Posts
May 27 2011 12:07 GMT
#123
I really wonder what team it is now, cant wait to find out great changes as well!
XicalaAera
Profile Joined December 2009
United States51 Posts
May 27 2011 12:08 GMT
#124
I would LOVE to see all of Team Liquid or EG in the GSTL! OMG!
“Ability is nothing without opportunity.”
annul
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2841 Posts
May 27 2011 12:09 GMT
#125
what an amazing, amazing post.

you get the sense that he is truly trying to find answers to problems, real or imagined, and he is doing this for the esports and for our collective future.

parapa fighting!
pStar
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
996 Posts
May 27 2011 12:13 GMT
#126
Sir, you have no idea how much i respect you, for coming on here and completely silencing all critics.

People like you are the reason Starcraft 2 is moving so quickly and is turning into a fantastic scene.

Parapa hwaiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also, awesome english :D
Arc1
Profile Joined December 2010
Poland849 Posts
May 27 2011 12:13 GMT
#127
I would love to see how this mercenary system will turn out. Maybe in future korean players will play in foreign team leagues as mercenary.
Nothing to add.
ct2299
Profile Joined February 2011
380 Posts
May 27 2011 12:13 GMT
#128
Hi Chae Jung Won,

Thanks so much for taking the time to write a response to us, and we're sorry that it's reached a point where you had to do that. Please don't take Xeris' thoughts in any way, as a representation of us non-Koreans. Most of us are very happy with what GomTV has provided us.

Again, sorry for the ignorant post by Xeris. I would like to see him post a response though, he's been pretty silent since posting that long article. Coincidence?
TooN
Profile Joined February 2011
1046 Posts
May 27 2011 12:14 GMT
#129
On May 27 2011 20:10 TanX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 20:00 ffadicted wrote:
Amazing post <3

I agree completely. I think all the reasons the foreigners give is basically spawning from the fact that they don't think they're good enough to win the whole thing, and instead of participating in the hardest tournament in the world for the most money, they would rather settle for easy cash in the west (players like Idra, Incontrol, TT1, etc... that could be in GSL but choose not to be). This is easily evidence by a player like Naniwa, who IS good enough to at least compete, and can't wait to go there. These are the kind of players I love, who strive for the most competition, not the easiest reward.

Not to mention ALL the tournaments that they say they will "miss out on" are online tournaments, which koreans play in..... Doesn't make sense to me. Language/culture barrier is also very silly, look how well HuK and Jinro did staying with oGs!! If you're motivated, you can overcome such things sooooo easily. And now that more korean teams are on board for housing foreigners, they will be able to have the best practice in the world, playing in the best tournament in the world for the most money in the world.....

What's not to love?


The money required to actually go there?

The time away from your family?

The lack of money-earning potential considering the small chances that you have of actually getting anywhere. (not that foreigners are bad, but there are so many other players that actually getting to the top is easier said than done)

But I do like the main post. And I can't wait to hear the news concerning the foreign team that might actually go!!! :D



He is providing the opportunity. When there is something great and you are a person with great motivation and conviction. You will make sacrifices. I am sorry, but there are only few in that caliber. Those who reject the idea are people that haven't experience true desire of greatness. If you are a person who wants to be the best, then nothing will stop you. Naniwa wants to go because he fits this category. Players who make excuses do not have it in them .

If you want something, you go get it.

It doesn't come to you.

the opportunity is there.

Take it or leave it. Don't complain that it doesn't accommodate you.
Goibon
Profile Joined May 2010
New Zealand8185 Posts
May 27 2011 12:14 GMT
#130
I love GOM so much <3

It's a damn shame a higher level of play isn't given the respect it deserves. Our top foreign players are currently running around casting when they could be practising. It's depressing seeing all this money flying around in the west which is sponsoring a lower standard.

I hope Bomber MMA and Losira DOMINATE MLG. I don't get the sense that our top foriegner players have the work ethic to make them deserving of all this extra money which is been thrown at the western SC2 scene.
Leenock =^_^= Ryung =^_^= Parting =^_^= herO =^_^= Guilty
Tachion
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada8573 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-27 12:17:46
May 27 2011 12:16 GMT
#131
On May 27 2011 20:44 Krehlmar wrote:
Let's face it, it's purely economic: Aslong as western players can keep getting more money for performing less instead of going to korea and competing they will.

http://ehcg.djgamblore.com./

Are the foreigners really playing SC2 because of money? I just....don't see it based on those rankings(Yes I'm aware there are a few sponsorship salaries involved as well). Maybe I'm just being cynical in regard to the financials, but it seems like the time spent on SC2, when devoted to other work or study, would net you a greater result.
I think it's pretty safe to say that at least 99% of the pros play SC2 because they like it, and are passionate about it, and not because it's a viable stable source of income. So when the topic of economic viability comes up in regards to playing in Korea for a little while, it just seems so off base. It's a pretty small sacrifice to make for a once in a lifetime experience, playing on the biggest stage doing what you love.

I dunno, I could be way wrong.
i was driving down the road this november eve and spotted a hitchhiker walking down the street. i pulled over and saw that it was only a tree. i uprooted it and put it in my trunk. do trees like marshmallow peeps? cause that's all i have and will have.
mordk
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Chile8385 Posts
May 27 2011 12:17 GMT
#132
On May 27 2011 20:08 dhcustom wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 20:03 deL wrote:
Mixed feelings about this - on one hand I think the GSTL is the best platform for foreigners to remain competitive with the best Korean players (without the preparation time I don't think as much will differentiate the players) but having this easy option also discourages full foreign teams from going to participate as there is always an 'easier option'. Also, do the prizes from GSTL go to the team themselves or the players? Would foreigners get equal prizemoney to the original players?

Trying to follow your favourite foreigner/team could also cause issues especially if players switch teams each time they go over to participate.

It also doesn't really help the problems raised about language, lifestyle, leaving friends behind, cost of getting there or the big time commitment.


This. The OP doesn't actually address the specific issues that are creating this problem in the first place. His "backward universe" analogy just creates a circular argument and he mentions nothing about the language, lifestyle, the length/potential profitability of the tournament and whatnot. There is just no substance to his argument. So which concerns exactly from the foreigners do you not understand?




Like was said in the interview, there's nothing GOM can do about this at all, I think what he's trying to say is that if a similar opportunity was available for koreans on US soil, they'd definitely go, since they believe in their skill more, and have bigger passion for fulfilling their gamer's dreams, so they'd put up with similar sacrifices without thinking twice about it.

I think that speaks volumes of how serious koreans are about pro-gaming. It's also not something to "blame" on foreigners, as leaving your friends and family, possibly job/studies, or girlfriend, is definitely not something easy (it's potentially only a month though, I don't think it's THAT terrible, I'd do it if I were a top pro gamer). It's also something GOM can't do anything about. He's saying that the language, lifestyle, lenght/profitability, are a good trade for the glory of e-sports and e-fame. For them, it's good enough apparently.
Pkol
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Australia176 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-27 12:18:43
May 27 2011 12:17 GMT
#133
I would nerdchill SO fucking hard if TL flew over all their players for the GSTL, but my money is on the team being FXO - the Malaysia house and a few of them have already gone over there and expressed interest. Either way, sounds pretty awesome :D

Also, once again need to thank Mr. Jung Won and GOMTV for taking the initiative, you guys get a lot of crap but you're still probably the rest run league out there <3 <3 <3
lolwut?
Takkara
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2503 Posts
May 27 2011 12:19 GMT
#134
I still think the foreigners have points about the incongruity of the Korean scene vs the foreign scene, but I really like GOM's responses. It truly is not GOM's fault that it is difficult for foreigners to sacrifice to come to Korea to compete in GSL. Perhaps if Code A was a slightly larger prize pool it might be better, but really, besides making GSL shorter, there's not much that could be done to entice foreigners to come over. Really, the only thing that could really get much more involvement from the foreigners is better latency cross-server. That way being in korea wouldn't preclude people from playing in online events. Were this the case, I think it would be far less of a deal. But that's Blizzard's issue and not GOMs.

So, kudos to GOM for their response and their continued efforts to improve the GSL and promote cooperation between Koreans and foreigners.
Gee gee gee gee baby baby baby
BleaK_
Profile Joined November 2010
Norway593 Posts
May 27 2011 12:19 GMT
#135
Amazing post, everyone should read it.
ptbl
Profile Joined January 2011
United States6074 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-27 12:22:47
May 27 2011 12:20 GMT
#136
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. GOM/Gretech is a great organization and I'm glad to see that you are reaching out the the SC2 foreigner fans.

In the end, I think it comes down to foreigners believing that they don't have the skill level to compete in the GSL. They are to scared to achieve immortality, fame and glory. Like you said, MC, Nestea, MVP, MKP has the drive to become the best and if the situation was reversed they would come to the U.S. in a heartbeat. Foreigners mentality needs to change and they should stop being afraid. Major props to Huk and Jinro staying in Korea to compete with the best.
Don't mind me
Frankon
Profile Joined May 2010
3054 Posts
May 27 2011 12:21 GMT
#137
On May 27 2011 21:16 Tachion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 20:44 Krehlmar wrote:
Let's face it, it's purely economic: Aslong as western players can keep getting more money for performing less instead of going to korea and competing they will.

http://ehcg.djgamblore.com./

Are the foreigners really playing SC2 because of money? I just....don't see it based on those rankings(Yes I'm aware there are a few sponsorship salaries involved as well). Maybe I'm just being cynical in regard to the financials, but it seems like the time spent on SC2, when devoted to other work or study, would net you a greater result.
I think it's pretty safe to say that at least 99% of the pros play SC2 because they like it, and are passionate about it, and not because it's a viable stable source of income. So when the topic of economic viability comes up in regards to playing in Korea for a little while, it just seems so off base. It's a pretty small sacrifice to make for a once in a lifetime experience, playing on the biggest stage doing what you love.

I dunno, I could be way wrong.

well it includes only prices.
Pros get money from sponsors, lessons, add revenue from stream and so on.
So if they go to korea than:
a) sponsors might not be interested in korea market. Cherry gum anyone?
b) lower chance at giving lessons due to the time diffrence
c) stream.. well i think they still could do it... But its from Korea so it depends on Gom mood ;P
andyhoughton
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia31 Posts
May 27 2011 12:21 GMT
#138
Would be pretty awesome to see a 'foreign all stars' team with the best player from the top teams entering.
Mailing
Profile Joined March 2011
United States3087 Posts
May 27 2011 12:24 GMT
#139
On May 27 2011 21:14 TooN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 20:10 TanX wrote:
On May 27 2011 20:00 ffadicted wrote:
Amazing post <3

I agree completely. I think all the reasons the foreigners give is basically spawning from the fact that they don't think they're good enough to win the whole thing, and instead of participating in the hardest tournament in the world for the most money, they would rather settle for easy cash in the west (players like Idra, Incontrol, TT1, etc... that could be in GSL but choose not to be). This is easily evidence by a player like Naniwa, who IS good enough to at least compete, and can't wait to go there. These are the kind of players I love, who strive for the most competition, not the easiest reward.

Not to mention ALL the tournaments that they say they will "miss out on" are online tournaments, which koreans play in..... Doesn't make sense to me. Language/culture barrier is also very silly, look how well HuK and Jinro did staying with oGs!! If you're motivated, you can overcome such things sooooo easily. And now that more korean teams are on board for housing foreigners, they will be able to have the best practice in the world, playing in the best tournament in the world for the most money in the world.....

What's not to love?


The money required to actually go there?

The time away from your family?

The lack of money-earning potential considering the small chances that you have of actually getting anywhere. (not that foreigners are bad, but there are so many other players that actually getting to the top is easier said than done)

But I do like the main post. And I can't wait to hear the news concerning the foreign team that might actually go!!! :D



He is providing the opportunity. When there is something great and you are a person with great motivation and conviction. You will make sacrifices. I am sorry, but there are only few in that caliber. Those who reject the idea are people that haven't experience true desire of greatness. If you are a person who wants to be the best, then nothing will stop you. Naniwa wants to go because he fits this category. Players who make excuses do not have it in them .

If you want something, you go get it.

It doesn't come to you.

the opportunity is there.

Take it or leave it. Don't complain that it doesn't accommodate you.



lmfao

"Players who make excuses do not have it in them." sounds very high and mighty and all, but the fact in those are legitimate questions.

You cannot attain "greatness" in korea unless you make top 4 EVERY single month.
Are you hurting ESPORTS? Find out today - http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=232866
Musou
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
1375 Posts
May 27 2011 12:25 GMT
#140
On May 27 2011 21:16 Tachion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 20:44 Krehlmar wrote:
Let's face it, it's purely economic: Aslong as western players can keep getting more money for performing less instead of going to korea and competing they will.

http://ehcg.djgamblore.com./

Are the foreigners really playing SC2 because of money? I just....don't see it based on those rankings(Yes I'm aware there are a few sponsorship salaries involved as well). Maybe I'm just being cynical in regard to the financials, but it seems like the time spent on SC2, when devoted to other work or study, would net you a greater result.
I think it's pretty safe to say that at least 99% of the pros play SC2 because they like it, and are passionate about it, and not because it's a viable stable source of income. So when the topic of economic viability comes up in regards to playing in Korea for a little while, it just seems so off base. It's a pretty small sacrifice to make for a once in a lifetime experience, playing on the biggest stage doing what you love.

I dunno, I could be way wrong.

Yes, they are. You can't look at it purely from a winnings standpoint, as the top Korean earners are all either players who won when SC2 was just starting and are somewhat among the top, as well as current absolute best players such as the Nestea/MC/MVP trio. Foreigners want easy money, not just money. The amount of effort they have to put in to win foreign tournaments with the lower level of competition is far less than the effort they would have to put in to stay in Code A, let alone get to Code S.

To put it simply, it's like if you were offered $10 to add a bunch of numbers together with a calculator or if you were offered the Millennium Prize to solve one of the problems ($1m for solving one of the following problems: http://www.claymath.org/millennium/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Prize_Problems ) which would most people take? I guarantee the majority of players would take the $10 instead of working toward the $1m. The scale of difficulty is just not worth their effort.
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