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On May 27 2011 22:23 DoA wrote:Mr. Chae is easily one of the hardest working people in E-sports and everyone that enjoys the GSL owes him a lot.  One topic I wanted to briefly chime in on is the subject of forgiegn players not getting good practice partners in Korea. The new rules with the GSTL are great, but I feel that it should be made clear that it was already easy to get Korean players to practice with. During the GSL world championships I know for a fact that MorroW played with ST_Squirtle, Sen practiced with IM_MVP and ST_Bomber played practice games with a number of people as well. cArn even lived in the MVP house for a time. All you have to do is ask and something can be set up. The Korean players were excited to get to practice with foreigners. So my point is this, if you're a player and the only thing holding you back from coming (that is, money and other tournaments aren't an issue for you) is the worry over if you'll have practice partners or just be stuck on the KR ladder, don't worry. The Korean players want to play with you! Heck, I even 4v4ed with Rainbow once...
Thank you DOa, when i said that it shouldnt be hard to find korean practice partners if you actually take the initiative, people crisitized me saying i knew nothing about korea, and obviously xeris knew more on the matter than me. But i would say Doa knows far more on the matter then him 
Everytime i see a korean get interviewed and asked about foreigners they always say they want to play with more foreigners and play in more foreign tournaments so i could see them being really happy about practicing with foreigners to get a different perspective on the way the game is played. On top of that with the MLG exchange program there will be 4-5 foreigners in the house at least to practice with, and im sure if your nice to jinro and huk they would help you as well and maybe they could even inquire about you practicing in the OGS house now and then.
I think even just with 4-5 foreigners in the gom house the practice situation would be already alot better than alot of foreign players have playing in NA.
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United States358 Posts
if it's fnatic, i will be pissed as hell.
dignitas is to be expected, not really a surprise, but super cool either way!
<3 gsl
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On May 28 2011 07:19 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 05:27 NHY wrote:On May 28 2011 02:39 Waxangel wrote:On May 28 2011 02:29 Antoine wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 Waxangel wrote:
I mean, let's not even go through the weird hypothetical "reverse-world" scenario. Let's make it more simple.
Say Nestea, MC, MVP or whomever you choose was a German, living in Germany. Then assume they have the same set of Starcraft II skills. Are they really gonna go to Korea for GSL, just because it's the most prestigious tournament? And don't even talk about the money, there's waaaay more money to earn outside Korea, and you can make it without putting all your eggs in one basket.
To reach Mr.Chae's conclusion, you have to assume that Korean players are somehow more ambitious, courageous competitors than foreign players, which I don't think is true at all. i disagree that there's more money to be made outside of korea. i think that's only true if you don't have a chance at winning the GSL, or you can't expect to stay in code A, which those players all do. http://ehcg.djgamblore.com/ for reference read the last X editions of TL tournament wrap-ups, see the prize totals for every period, and get back to me So here it is: Major tournaments in 2011 Korea: + Show Spoiler +7 GSL + GSL WC + GSL ST + GSL Blizzard cup + Gainward + LG Cinema3d
= ₩ 1,525,800,000 = $ 1,410,000 Rest of the world + Show Spoiler +3 NASL : $ 400,000
6 MLG : $ 190,000
5 DH : $ 125,000
2 IPL + TSL + 2 IEM : $ 137,500 = $ 852,500 That means $ 46,500 per month in all other tournaments to match Korea. From Tournament Roundup: + Show Spoiler +Feb(1/2): $ 9,700, March: $ 37,705, April: $ 68,633, May(1/2): $ 11,728 = $ 42,600 per month So total prize pools are about the same assuming small tournaments keep coming up at a similar rate. Now, who actually wins them? Take a look at prize ranking for 2011. I'd say in MC, MVP or NesTea's level, playing in Korea pays rather well: + Show Spoiler +Also, there wouldn't be a drastic shift in relative prize level since there are $ 764,000 total prize pool planned in Korea until the end of the year, which is about the size of all planned NASL, MLG, DH combined. Doesn't the tourney roundup already include DH, IEM, TSL and IPL ? Liquipedia has a tourney page I think it would be more accurate to look there, as it's very comprehensive and all the prizepools are included. But anyway, nice work, it's interresting.
I did subtract those tournaments from Tournament Roudup.
Calculaing from wiki:
+ Show Spoiler +Other tournements = $ 108,000 (= $ 216,000 per year)
Weekly tournements = $ 1,300 (= $ 65,000 per year)
Which would make total prize pool $ 1,133,500
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This post was quite touching for some reason lol.
If you want something, go get it, is basically what he is saying.
OPPORTUNITY !! Glory is sacrifice !!
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9933 Posts
foreign players in teamleague? fantastic, absolutely fantastic.
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On May 28 2011 15:10 sinjitsu_ wrote:
This post was quite touching for some reason lol.
If you want something, go get it, is basically what he is saying.
OPPORTUNITY !! Glory is sacrifice !!
That doesn't compute for Americans. The American Dream is based on an idea of self-entitlement without much sacrifice.
User was warned for this post
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On May 28 2011 05:27 SlayerSBriefS wrote:
If you truly wish to be the best pro-gamer and compete on the highest stage, then there is definitely no reason to not go to Korea.
People who use money or social reasons such as friends or family as excuses command no sympathy or respect from me. There are many korean pro-gamers who make absolutely nothing, in both sc2 and bw. All they get are living conditions and some food, and they play 12+ hours a day of constant gaming all in the hopes of qualifying for some event or playing some televised match. The sacrifices they make are tremendous, and in terms of pure desire and ambition, these guys would and SHOULD absolutely dominate any XXX-foreign guy who isn't willing to make these sacrifices.
This reminds me of what OgsLittleBoy said when he first played his match in the open seasons, in that if he recieved code A he would stay for a year or so, but if he didn't then he would go back to his hometown to farm for the rest of his life or whatever. I can only imagine the stress of being in that situation and knowing that you've bet everything on those results from endless nights practicing in net cafes.
And then I have to read about XXX and his whine about covering transportation costs or not being with friends. (which itself is the stupidest argument because unless you are a 16 year old sheltered boy then gaming should be your job and priority and moving somewhere, anywhere for a month or two is absolutely nothing, even for student, much less an adult whos doing this to pursue his hearts dream.)
When people mention money they also forget the intangible things such as reputation and fame they could go. Let's take for instance Idra. He's known as a BM progamer thats a great zerg player and arguably the most popular western player. He was also made by korea. No one would care for him if he was just random xxx foreign player playing in USA. He was known as that white boy who stood up against the scary korean players and BM'ed everyone on ladder, and now he can come back from playing top 8 in a gsl and being in code S and do whatever the hell he wishes.
Of course, the flip side is if you go and fail in the qualifiers for xxx number of times then you will be looked down upon, but those are the risks that you have to take in order to be the best, if you believe that you are.
Well, all I can say that is if you are a true competitor then you shouldn't be afraid to go to the highest stage to compete.
People who use money or social reasons such as friends or family as excuses. Friends and family is very important to day do day life, it is taken for granted when they are there but when not it is not nice. Idra left because he had no support one or two friends a hand full of practice partners and almost no one to talk english with.
At the end of the day money is a bad reason to do something without other things to back it up as it reputation. Life alone is not a good life, take it from someone who knows and those were dark years.
There is no reason to move to South Korea and isolate oneself from people for the best money or reputation when one can have loved ones around for less money and less reputation. This is why people are reluctant to move to South Korea for months a time.
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On May 27 2011 22:23 DoA wrote:Mr. Chae is easily one of the hardest working people in E-sports and everyone that enjoys the GSL owes him a lot. One topic I wanted to briefly chime in on is the subject of forgiegn players not getting good practice partners in Korea. The new rules with the GSTL are great, but I feel that it should be made clear that it was already easy to get Korean players to practice with. During the GSL world championships I know for a fact that MorroW played with ST_Squirtle, Sen practiced with IM_MVP and ST_Bomber played practice games with a number of people as well. cArn even lived in the MVP house for a time. All you have to do is ask and something can be set up. The Korean players were excited to get to practice with foreigners. So my point is this, if you're a player and the only thing holding you back from coming (that is, money and other tournaments aren't an issue for you) is the worry over if you'll have practice partners or just be stuck on the KR ladder, don't worry. The Korean players want to play with you! Heck, I even 4v4ed with Rainbow once...
Thanks for the info DOA. Wow all this info is really making FNatic's management look pretty bad, lol. Two pretty obnoxious articles from them that lacked research.
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On May 28 2011 15:41 ct2299 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 15:10 sinjitsu_ wrote:
This post was quite touching for some reason lol.
If you want something, go get it, is basically what he is saying.
OPPORTUNITY !! Glory is sacrifice !! That doesn't compute for Americans. The American Dream is based on an idea of self-entitlement without much sacrifice.
Fuck self-entitlement and sacrifice I can sacrifice my self for 50,000 US. a year or not sacrifice myself for 32,000 US. and have a better life. No self-entitlement needed. Just a good life.
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On May 28 2011 15:43 jere wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 05:27 SlayerSBriefS wrote:
If you truly wish to be the best pro-gamer and compete on the highest stage, then there is definitely no reason to not go to Korea.
People who use money or social reasons such as friends or family as excuses command no sympathy or respect from me. There are many korean pro-gamers who make absolutely nothing, in both sc2 and bw. All they get are living conditions and some food, and they play 12+ hours a day of constant gaming all in the hopes of qualifying for some event or playing some televised match. The sacrifices they make are tremendous, and in terms of pure desire and ambition, these guys would and SHOULD absolutely dominate any XXX-foreign guy who isn't willing to make these sacrifices.
This reminds me of what OgsLittleBoy said when he first played his match in the open seasons, in that if he recieved code A he would stay for a year or so, but if he didn't then he would go back to his hometown to farm for the rest of his life or whatever. I can only imagine the stress of being in that situation and knowing that you've bet everything on those results from endless nights practicing in net cafes.
And then I have to read about XXX and his whine about covering transportation costs or not being with friends. (which itself is the stupidest argument because unless you are a 16 year old sheltered boy then gaming should be your job and priority and moving somewhere, anywhere for a month or two is absolutely nothing, even for student, much less an adult whos doing this to pursue his hearts dream.)
When people mention money they also forget the intangible things such as reputation and fame they could go. Let's take for instance Idra. He's known as a BM progamer thats a great zerg player and arguably the most popular western player. He was also made by korea. No one would care for him if he was just random xxx foreign player playing in USA. He was known as that white boy who stood up against the scary korean players and BM'ed everyone on ladder, and now he can come back from playing top 8 in a gsl and being in code S and do whatever the hell he wishes.
Of course, the flip side is if you go and fail in the qualifiers for xxx number of times then you will be looked down upon, but those are the risks that you have to take in order to be the best, if you believe that you are.
Well, all I can say that is if you are a true competitor then you shouldn't be afraid to go to the highest stage to compete.
People who use money or social reasons such as friends or family as excuses. Friends and family is very important to day do day life, it is taken for granted when they are there but when not it is not nice. Idra left because he had no support one or two friends a hand full of practice partners and almost no one to talk english with. At the end of the day money is a bad reason to do something without other things to back it up as it reputation. Life alone is not a good life, take it from someone who knows and those were dark years. There is no reason to move to South Korea and isolate oneself from people for the best money or reputation when one can have loved ones around for less money and less reputation. This is why people are reluctant to move to South Korea for months a time.
Wow you speak as though being in Korea means they'll have zero contact with friends or family. We live in the modern day now, where there is email, instant messaging, SKYPE, VIDEO CHAT. I mean a lot of these pro gamers are friends with each other over the internet anyways. On top of that, what's to say they wouldn't meet new friends in Korea?
It's like college, do you really think about your friends back home or how you'll be away from family? Most people I know go somewhere away from home, and meet new friends.
I agree with you that money alone is a bad idea to do anything, but I think Korea presents a really great opportunity to grow both as a gamer and as an individual. How often in life will someone PAY for you to go to their country? It's ONLY one month. I mean even 2-3 months isn't THAT big of a deal to be honest, but then maybe I'm a more international person than most.
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United States358 Posts
On May 28 2011 15:41 ct2299 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 15:10 sinjitsu_ wrote:
This post was quite touching for some reason lol.
If you want something, go get it, is basically what he is saying.
OPPORTUNITY !! Glory is sacrifice !! That doesn't compute for Americans. The American Dream is based on an idea of self-entitlement without much sacrifice.
lol wtf man. besides idra and select maybe, there are barely any tip top players here. i agree with tyler and incontrol, it would be silly for them to go to korea unless it made them a lot better. not to mention the "american dream" is "rags to riches"
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much respect to the way this was handled. more respect to GSL for acknowledging our concerns and engaging the community on a way to improve it. well done to the max, ya i just used to the max
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On May 28 2011 15:41 ct2299 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 15:10 sinjitsu_ wrote:
This post was quite touching for some reason lol.
If you want something, go get it, is basically what he is saying.
OPPORTUNITY !! Glory is sacrifice !! That doesn't compute for Americans. The American Dream is based on an idea of self-entitlement without much sacrifice.
Maybe today's American dream, but the original one was based on sacrifice.
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On May 28 2011 15:41 ct2299 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 15:10 sinjitsu_ wrote:
This post was quite touching for some reason lol.
If you want something, go get it, is basically what he is saying.
OPPORTUNITY !! Glory is sacrifice !! That doesn't compute for Americans. The American Dream is based on an idea of self-entitlement without much sacrifice.
There currently are not many top tier American players, I mean who do you expect to go to Korea? Idra already went there, the players that would make the BIGGEST impact currently in the GSL from the foreign scene would not be americans... I mean the two foreigners in the GSL arent even Americans right now, and the top players that would go would be guys like Naniwa, Thorzain, Whitera, Dimaga, etc.
It really disappoints me that often people think of only America when it comes to the 'foreign scene', or wonder why there is not a great amount of Americans in the GSL.
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great news, and as well u fight for the grow of the "foreing" community, how are things going in korea?
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On May 27 2011 19:47 Parapa wrote:
Hello Teamliquid
My name is Chae Jung Won and I’m both GSL Code S commentator and manager of GSL operation team.
(...)
However my interview that was posted on PlayXP was response regarding an anonymous Fnatic person’s answer concerning Super Tournament, who gave reasons such as “1month is too long” “prize pool is not deep enough” “there is language barrier”. I was little startled when the interview was posted as the tone was much more aggressive than I actually had felt. At the time I was doing the interview, my feelings were more like “hmm? Interesting”.
(...)
You don't respond to the 1 month concern and do not even mention the 2 week period you gave foreigners to respond to the invitation, which said Fanatic person cited as his most important reason.
Why would you "respond" to the Fanatic person and yet not address any of his concerns? All you do is complain about his tone.
I understand that tone and respect are very important to koreans, but this is unacceptable.
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Great post! I can't wait to hear more about foreign teams/players competing in Korea. It's been evident from Day 1 that GOM was trying to accommodate foreign players and grow the scene into something international. The cost of travel will always be a barrier, but getting to compete in Korea should be such a tremendous draw that with your help, more fantastic foreign players will make the trip.
Keep up the great work!
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It's true that a lot of the problems are things Gomtv can't really solve, but that doesn't make them not problems. Right now foreigner players have a certain lifestyle: live near their friends and family, play online and fly out to major LANs. This lifestyle just doesn't fit into the GSL very well. Its not the GSL's fault, we all love the GSL. It has the best format for producing solid competition with great production. It just doesn't fit very well into the foreigner scene.
That said, there are those who want to go to korea to compete, and its really awesome how much GOM is doing for those players <3. However, there's no reason we should expect every good player to want to go to korea, its a matter of the particular interests and priorities of the individual player and that player's team/sponsors.
I think GOM's approach is very good: help those who are willing to commit to competing in korea, but don't worry overmuch about attracting foreign talent that will probably prefer to stay at home regardless of what GOM does.
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and as you could hear his last show, players like demuslim if they reach code A they will regret it ...
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6UGJg.png)
