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On May 28 2011 04:48 cheesemaster wrote:
I really like how open gom is being and how willing they are to creat a nice environment for foreigners.
Its kind of disheartening, that we have all these negative "aggresive" as Mr.chae said (unproffesional IMO) posts towards the GSL and korea, and they are being so positive and welcoming to foreigners at the same time, I think that problem with korea post should be taken off the spotlight it should never have been there to begin with it stated alot of false / outdated information now and was quite offensive/aggresive in nature.
I agree completely. I hope Mr. Chae understands that most of those negative whine posts aren`t a true reflection of the entire foreign sc2 community. It is just some raging idiots who are very vocal about things that can`t even be controlled.
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On May 28 2011 05:55 sickoota wrote:
I've noticed that most of the players who are saying that they would never go to Korea (incontrol, tyler, tt1) are the ones who wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell of winning the thing. The tip-top foreigners are the ones who seem a lot more interested in going to korea (nani, thorzain) because they actually have a legitimate chance of not getting knocked out of code A ro32, so the trip makes alot more sense for them.
while i'm not a super mega fan of tt1 or anything (i don't hate him, i'm just not a mega fan), i'm pretty sure, tt1 was one of the few progamers who actually apologized for the portrayal that foreigners have displayed towards the GSL, and hopes to someday go back to korea.
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On May 28 2011 05:27 NHY wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 02:39 Waxangel wrote:On May 28 2011 02:29 Antoine wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 Waxangel wrote:
I mean, let's not even go through the weird hypothetical "reverse-world" scenario. Let's make it more simple.
Say Nestea, MC, MVP or whomever you choose was a German, living in Germany. Then assume they have the same set of Starcraft II skills. Are they really gonna go to Korea for GSL, just because it's the most prestigious tournament? And don't even talk about the money, there's waaaay more money to earn outside Korea, and you can make it without putting all your eggs in one basket.
To reach Mr.Chae's conclusion, you have to assume that Korean players are somehow more ambitious, courageous competitors than foreign players, which I don't think is true at all. i disagree that there's more money to be made outside of korea. i think that's only true if you don't have a chance at winning the GSL, or you can't expect to stay in code A, which those players all do. http://ehcg.djgamblore.com/ for reference read the last X editions of TL tournament wrap-ups, see the prize totals for every period, and get back to me So here it is: Major tournaments in 2011 Korea: + Show Spoiler +7 GSL + GSL WC + GSL ST + GSL Blizzard cup + Gainward + LG Cinema3d
= ₩ 1,525,800,000 = $ 1,410,000 Rest of the world + Show Spoiler +3 NASL : $ 400,000
6 MLG : $ 190,000
5 DH : $ 125,000
2 IPL + TSL + 2 IEM : $ 137,500 = $ 852,500 That means $ 46,500 per month in all other tournaments to match Korea. From Tournament Roundup: + Show Spoiler +Feb(1/2): $ 9,700, March: $ 37,705, April: $ 68,633, May(1/2): $ 11,728 = $ 42,600 per month So total prize pools are about the same assuming small tournaments keep coming up at a similar rate. Now, who actually wins them? Take a look at prize ranking for 2011. I'd say in MC, MVP or NesTea's level, playing in Korea pays rather well: + Show Spoiler +Also, there wouldn't be a drastic shift in relative prize level since there are $ 764,000 total prize pool planned in Korea until the end of the year, which is about the size of all planned NASL, MLG, DH combined.
Total 'headshot' post here. If accurate, it is really illustrative.
Thanks for that.
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On May 28 2011 05:55 sickoota wrote:
I've noticed that most of the players who are saying that they would never go to Korea (incontrol, tyler, tt1) are the ones who wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell of winning the thing. The tip-top foreigners are the ones who seem a lot more interested in going to korea (nani, thorzain) because they actually have a legitimate chance of not getting knocked out of code A ro32, so the trip makes alot more sense for them.
Yeah. From the comments in this thread you would think that a lot of players have made the claim that they could make it there, but wont go for other reasons. Except I cannot remember seeing or hearing any such claims.
Anyone that goes, I would wish them, and hope for, the best.
Those that do not go have reasons that makes sense to them. Don't see the reason to pass any kind of judgement for that - unless they have made claims they are not backing up with action.
Seems be a lot of panties sitting very tight over the fact that the SC2 in EU/NA is getting so much attention these days. Can't understand that thought process. Well I guess I understand it, but I find it ridicolous.
The game coverage is exploding and people are standing in the corner going "Bwwaa, they don't deserve it. Those other guys are much better". Instead of just being happy about their game of choice generating so much action and attention - outside Korea as well.
Cutting of their nose to spite their face.
The players that have a shot in Korea and assess that it is worth it, everything else in their life taken into consideration, will go there. Why is that good not enough for for anyone?
Reminds of the scene in Rounders where Matt Damon is asking John Torturro for money and Damon says he never had the balls to go for the big one, and Torturro sets him straight for judging him:
"Stones! You little punk. I'm not playin for the thrill of fuckin victory here. I owe rent. Alimony. Child Support. I play for money. My kids eat. I got stones enough not to chase cards and action or fucking pipe dreams of winning the World Series on ESPN."
Both of them are doing what they need to do. Although I doubt very few players would be old enough to be in that particular situation. 
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I actually want to become good enough at starcraft 2 to become at least a semi pro/pro (and do freelancing jobs on the side), and if I somehow become good enough I'll definitely think about going to korea ;o
nice writeup though, GOMtv really does care about the esports community and the foreigners ;D
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Post should be "blogged" asap.
It's good to have the reverse thought process for the Korean scene sometimes.
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I applaud this thread. GOMTV has already bent over backwards to make accommodations for foreigners and it's inspiring to see that in the face of criticism, GOMTV not only responds in a polite and appropriate manner, but even offers more accommodations to help foreigners participate in the GSL and continues to promote the expansion of e-sports as a global industry.
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@NHY
Holy shit, thank you so much! That is a really awesome post
Korea > Foreign world combined, prize money wise
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On May 28 2011 06:46 Bombmk wrote:Yeah. From the comments in this thread you would think that a lot of players have made the claim that they could make it there, but wont go for other reasons. Except I cannot remember seeing or hearing any such claims.
The thing is no one really dared to touch the topic. They chose to dodge the question simply by saying "Even if, it won't be worth it".
The reason lies with interviewers and show masters not asking "could you make it?" but "would you go?".
Except for a few, for whom the experience alone is priceless. Sure we have Idra saying he most probably wouldn't go back to KR in the near future. But take into consideration that he already has been there. Twice.
It is perfectly understandable, as he benefits from his time under KR training ever since. But for someone outright neglecting the biggest opportunity to elevate his play to a whole different level is astonishing.
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Go GOM!
I dont like the way sc2 esports has unfolded so far, but I do NOT fault gom for any of it. In fact, I have every season pass of goms (besides super tourney - too busy) just because I know they are trying so hard to include foriegners (plus i need my tastosis fix).
I find it harder and harder to watch gsl because of the lack of foriegners, but i really WANT them to be there.
Thanks GOM!
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I want more foreigners to be in korea. To compete and be successful! Please someone step up and give it all you got !
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I tried my best to solve this problem and although I admit this is not the perfect solution here it is.
Firstly, “Foreign players can now participate as a mercenary in Korean team”.
You may be able to see Jinro or Huk as member of oGs-TL in team league.
Accordingly, foreign players who come to Korea through MLG League Exchange, Rakaka tournament in Sweden, or come by themselves and qualify will not only be able to participate individual league but can also participate in GSTL as part of Korean team.
I cannot “force” the Korean teams to accept foreign players to their roster and have them play at least one set per match. However, Korean teams are willing to form alliance or partnership with foreign teams and they have stated that they will be happy to accept if there is any foreign team or player willing to join force. In fact Korean teams are very eager to recruit able foreign players.
Revolution right here. Foreign Mercs!!! that sounds as good as it looks. Gom you really know what we want.
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[+ Show Spoiler +QUOTE] On May 28 2011 05:27 NHY wrote:On May 28 2011 02:39 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 02:29 Antoine wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 Waxangel wrote:
I mean, let's not even go through the weird hypothetical "reverse-world" scenario. Let's make it more simple.
Say Nestea, MC, MVP or whomever you choose was a German, living in Germany. Then assume they have the same set of Starcraft II skills. Are they really gonna go to Korea for GSL, just because it's the most prestigious tournament? And don't even talk about the money, there's waaaay more money to earn outside Korea, and you can make it without putting all your eggs in one basket.
To reach Mr.Chae's conclusion, you have to assume that Korean players are somehow more ambitious, courageous competitors than foreign players, which I don't think is true at all. i disagree that there's more money to be made outside of korea. i think that's only true if you don't have a chance at winning the GSL, or you can't expect to stay in code A, which those players all do. http://ehcg.djgamblore.com/ for reference read the last X editions of TL tournament wrap-ups, see the prize totals for every period, and get back to me So here it is: Major tournaments in 2011 Korea: + Show Spoiler +7 GSL + GSL WC + GSL ST + GSL Blizzard cup + Gainward + LG Cinema3d
= ₩ 1,525,800,000 = $ 1,410,000 Rest of the world + Show Spoiler +3 NASL : $ 400,000
6 MLG : $ 190,000
5 DH : $ 125,000
2 IPL + TSL + 2 IEM : $ 137,500 = $ 852,500 That means $ 46,500 per month in all other tournaments to match Korea. From Tournament Roundup: + Show Spoiler +Feb(1/2): $ 9,700, March: $ 37,705, April: $ 68,633, May(1/2): $ 11,728 = $ 42,600 per month So total prize pools are about the same assuming small tournaments keep coming up at a similar rate. Now, who actually wins them? Take a look at prize ranking for 2011. I'd say in MC, MVP or NesTea's level, playing in Korea pays rather well: + Show Spoiler +Also, there wouldn't be a drastic shift in relative prize level since there are $ 764,000 total prize pool planned in Korea until the end of the year, which is about the size of all planned NASL, MLG, DH combined.
I mean fuck I dont see how moon can make 7.2k and the top foreigners dont think its worth their time to go to korea. surely we have a ton of guys better than moon
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GOMTV is so awesome; i love the shit out of you guys
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Awesome to hear how hard you are trying to improve. Keep it up.
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On May 28 2011 05:27 NHY wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 02:39 Waxangel wrote:On May 28 2011 02:29 Antoine wrote:On May 28 2011 02:24 Waxangel wrote:
I mean, let's not even go through the weird hypothetical "reverse-world" scenario. Let's make it more simple.
Say Nestea, MC, MVP or whomever you choose was a German, living in Germany. Then assume they have the same set of Starcraft II skills. Are they really gonna go to Korea for GSL, just because it's the most prestigious tournament? And don't even talk about the money, there's waaaay more money to earn outside Korea, and you can make it without putting all your eggs in one basket.
To reach Mr.Chae's conclusion, you have to assume that Korean players are somehow more ambitious, courageous competitors than foreign players, which I don't think is true at all. i disagree that there's more money to be made outside of korea. i think that's only true if you don't have a chance at winning the GSL, or you can't expect to stay in code A, which those players all do. http://ehcg.djgamblore.com/ for reference read the last X editions of TL tournament wrap-ups, see the prize totals for every period, and get back to me So here it is: Major tournaments in 2011 Korea: + Show Spoiler +7 GSL + GSL WC + GSL ST + GSL Blizzard cup + Gainward + LG Cinema3d
= ₩ 1,525,800,000 = $ 1,410,000 Rest of the world + Show Spoiler +3 NASL : $ 400,000
6 MLG : $ 190,000
5 DH : $ 125,000
2 IPL + TSL + 2 IEM : $ 137,500 = $ 852,500 That means $ 46,500 per month in all other tournaments to match Korea. From Tournament Roundup: + Show Spoiler +Feb(1/2): $ 9,700, March: $ 37,705, April: $ 68,633, May(1/2): $ 11,728 = $ 42,600 per month So total prize pools are about the same assuming small tournaments keep coming up at a similar rate. Now, who actually wins them? Take a look at prize ranking for 2011. I'd say in MC, MVP or NesTea's level, playing in Korea pays rather well: + Show Spoiler +Also, there wouldn't be a drastic shift in relative prize level since there are $ 764,000 total prize pool planned in Korea until the end of the year, which is about the size of all planned NASL, MLG, DH combined.
Doesn't the tourney roundup already include DH, IEM, TSL and IPL ?
Liquipedia has a tourney page I think it would be more accurate to look there, as it's very comprehensive and all the prizepools are included.
But anyway, nice work, it's interresting.
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On May 28 2011 06:31 Kazeyonoma wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 05:55 sickoota wrote:
I've noticed that most of the players who are saying that they would never go to Korea (incontrol, tyler, tt1) are the ones who wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell of winning the thing. The tip-top foreigners are the ones who seem a lot more interested in going to korea (nani, thorzain) because they actually have a legitimate chance of not getting knocked out of code A ro32, so the trip makes alot more sense for them. while i'm not a super mega fan of tt1 or anything (i don't hate him, i'm just not a mega fan), i'm pretty sure, tt1 was one of the few progamers who actually apologized for the portrayal that foreigners have displayed towards the GSL, and hopes to someday go back to korea.
Correct TT1 definitely didn't say what those others have said. If people are going to single him out at least check what he said.
And of course we all know the reason is more player skill than anything else. Incontrol doesn't stand a chance obviously and he was pretty against going. It's not surprising is it.
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On May 28 2011 07:15 danson wrote:
I mean fuck I dont see how moon can make 7.2k and the top foreigners dont think its worth their time to go to korea. surely we have a ton of guys better than moon
How much from that 6.5k comes form the IEM.
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I mean fuck I dont see how moon can make 7.2k and the top foreigners dont think its worth their time to go to korea. surely we have a ton of guys better than moon
That's an interesting point, since Moon's career is basically what a foreigner who can't go deep in GSL would hope to imitate. But then again, if you can make all your money in foreigner tournaments and almost none in GSL, why go to Korea (especially since far and away most of Moon's money comes from IEM)?
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i freaking love gom. gom forever.
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On May 28 2011 07:22 infinity2k9 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 06:31 Kazeyonoma wrote:On May 28 2011 05:55 sickoota wrote:
I've noticed that most of the players who are saying that they would never go to Korea (incontrol, tyler, tt1) are the ones who wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell of winning the thing. The tip-top foreigners are the ones who seem a lot more interested in going to korea (nani, thorzain) because they actually have a legitimate chance of not getting knocked out of code A ro32, so the trip makes alot more sense for them. while i'm not a super mega fan of tt1 or anything (i don't hate him, i'm just not a mega fan), i'm pretty sure, tt1 was one of the few progamers who actually apologized for the portrayal that foreigners have displayed towards the GSL, and hopes to someday go back to korea. Correct TT1 definitely didn't say what those others have said. If people are going to single him out at least check what he said. And of course we all know the reason is more player skill than anything else. Incontrol doesn't stand a chance obviously and he was pretty against going. It's not surprising is it.
lol that hurts. But I have to agree. Incontrol would have a very slim chance even qualifying into Code A, much less playing in Code A. However, not all those that were against going are in the same boat as the likes of Incontrol. Take for example Idra, he has the skill (unless he has grown soft on US server) to compete and he did not wish to go back. I hope he can change his mind one day and compete long term in the GSL.
But Nani and T-Zain NEED to get to Korea and make some $$$ and gain lots of fame. Frankly, the fame you get in competing the GSL is also HIGHLY lucrative and beneficial to one's career.
Select, Kiwi, Sheth, Sen, Dimaga, White-Ra, Kas, and TLO should also think about GSL. Heck, TeamLiquid would gain so much from fielding a GSTL team...think about the exposure and crazed foreign fans that will root for TL!
I can't wait until they announce the F-team that will go into the GSTL (that would allow IM to play!); I hope it is TeamLiquid or the lethal DIGNITAS TEAM!! Whichever foreign team that gets that GSTL spot...mark my words...they will see great things in the future and many opportunities will arise for them. In other words they will become BIG just because they entered and competed in the GSTL.
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