|
On May 25 2011 02:14 warsinger wrote:
As for the argument that they're going to hear this anyway so anything goes, just because something might happen doesn't mean I want it in my house on a constant basis. The more we hear things the more we internalize it and desensitize to it. Take the example of the word "rape". The more we hear it the more it desensitizes us to the horror of the reality of the word.
For the 12 year old this isn't something he is going to hear it's something he has heard and hears on a daily basis. If he's gone to public school his whole life then he probably uses it himself. It's actually kind of amazing to me how quickly parents forget what middle school is like.
|
On May 25 2011 02:32 emythrel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 02:29 Joedaddy wrote:On May 25 2011 02:26 elis wrote:On May 25 2011 02:24 Joedaddy wrote:
Its not about whether or not the game is beyond her comprehension. Whatever it is that you are doing, your kid is going to want to be there with you and take part too. She doesn't really understand football but she still loves to watch the games with me every Sunday. Aside from the language used by the casters, I can not recall anything that I felt was inappropriate for her to see or hear in a SC2 1v1 match.
What about the guys killing each other? She's seen more blood and guts watching me skin deer and clean fish. And you think that messes a child up less than hearing swearing? Holy moly...... I wouldn't even want to see that. Thats where the cultural divide really shows, if you think thats ok for your child but hearing some dude say the word fuck isn't.... we have completely different ideas about what is appropriate for a child, and I would guess 99% of the people in the UK would agree with me. I'm not saying you are wrong to let your child see it, but just goes to show that whats ok in one place is completely different from another, and with the internet..... thats what you have to deal with.
You're starting to get it. People have different standards. Some parents might have an issue with the violence in SC -- others may not. Some may have more of an issue than others with rude language during casts. Kids differ in what they can handle, too, and it's up to the parents and not the casters to decide.
The point is, there's no reason to pack casts to the gills with PEGI 16 just because the game is independently rated that way. Some parents may feel that their kids can easily come to grips with the way violence is presented in the game, but they don't want them to also be challenged by rude language from the casters.
Why make it harder than it needs to be? Where is the good reason to use bad language on tournament casts?
|
well sc2 is rated as a mature?
kids are going to learn swear words sooner or later, chances are they already know most of them from school, i know i was cursing up a storm by the time i was in 6th grade (of course this is also because asian parents curse all the time). the novelty wears off and you end up not doing it that later. i dunno. i really don't think it is a huge deal.
i started playing sc when i was around their age. the original marine had the saying 'oooh that's the stuff' whenever you stimpacked them, and the original sc booklet even mentioned that marines used drugs as a a method to 'increase their rate of fire'. that doesn't mean i suddenly thought that shooting amphetamines was cool.
i think people underestimate how much kids can grasp, and yes, a child can certainly learn that context matters, which a valuable thing to learn. for example, i learned that cursing around friends or peers was fine, cursing in a manner towards older people was not, cursing as a method to express hate was also not 'acceptable'. i think its quite a bit a better to let a child see this, and make them more socially adept.
|
ESRB rating for Starcraft 2 is Teen. At that level, you can expect mild sexual/drug/alcohol humor, as well as occasional swearing.
+ Show Spoiler + TEEN Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling, and/or infrequent use of strong language.
Because of that, I wouldn't expect any caster to censor their language at any level lower than that.
Although, if some casters truly are rated M, I can agree that there should be a way of distinguishing them from those who are not.
|
I do agree with you and I don't think it is a bad thing watching Starcraft with your children. I grow up playing Starcraft with my father and to this very day I still cherish those time that I shared with my old man. It means a world to me as I am sure would to them.
Being mannered and considerate is definitely not too much to ask for from the casters. You don't have to be vulgar to be funny.
|
On May 25 2011 02:38 IPA wrote:
Al Michaels wouldn't swear while calling a Monday night football game; I wish SC2 casters would follow suit. It would bring legitimacy to something I love.
There is nothing articulate about swearing and it's comedic value is used up almost immediately unless you're 13 or you're a knuckle dragger.
Nice post OP.
And that's why the worlds most famous comedians never swear... oh wait......
I'm sorry but any argument that swearing is immature or dumb doesn't make sense, one of the most famous people in the UK is Stephen Fry, an oxford educated man who is probably smarter than any two people i know, with a wit beyond pretty much anyone else on this planet and he is one of the biggest supporters of the use of swearing. It give language flavour and can be used to great effect for dramatic or comedic purposes.... just because you've never heard someone swear in an intelligent way doesn't mean its inherently dumb...
Infact the most intelligent people on the planet generally swear alot, Albert Einstein was notorious for swearing, if you are going to tell me that he was a knuckle dragger then I honestly would just laugh.
|
On May 25 2011 02:29 Bobster wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 02:19 PhiLtheFisH wrote:On May 25 2011 02:09 Bobster wrote:
The way to "mainstream acceptance" is not reaching out to children under 10 by neutering and censoring our commentaries. It might baffle you a bit, but there are mature persons who don't like to hear this words in a professional cast either. I would certainly be annoyed by it if the same language was to be used in a football (soccer) broadcast for example. There is no need for censorship, just don't use that vocabulary in professional, big broadcasts like GSL, MLG, etc. where you want to reach out for a more casual audience. Nobody cares about smaller events where just hardcore fans are watching anyways. In that case, I'm not sure what the big events like GSL, MLG or EPS should do differently, since they're already upholding those standards as far as I'm aware. And since you also that this would be fine in the smaller events appealing to the hardcore fans... Are we in agreement that nothing should change? :D
I think the OP and a lot of others are quite pleased with how major tournaments are keeping things PG but I believe what he's asking for is a label so he can rest easy watching it with kids. If there's a mature label posted up front, he knows he should probably steer clear, otherwise with PG label he can have the whole family watch it.
I myself prefer as little swearing as possible but I have no problem listening to SotG or watching Day9. Preference: they scale back. Is it s a deal-breaker? No. However, I think the more "censoring" or really just self-control in expressing oneself to the public, the more happy the mainstream audience will be. I can't deny the effect of some words in certain contexts but most of the time it's not really necessary at all.
|
On May 25 2011 02:40 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 02:14 warsinger wrote:
As for the argument that they're going to hear this anyway so anything goes, just because something might happen doesn't mean I want it in my house on a constant basis. The more we hear things the more we internalize it and desensitize to it. Take the example of the word "rape". The more we hear it the more it desensitizes us to the horror of the reality of the word.
For the 12 year old this isn't something he is going to hear it's something he has heard and hears on a daily basis. If he's gone to public school his whole life then he probably uses it himself. It's actually kind of amazing to me how quickly parents forget what middle school is like.
Since when did we decide to let middle schoolers become standard bearers for acceptable behavior?
|
On May 25 2011 02:43 emythrel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 02:38 IPA wrote:
Al Michaels wouldn't swear while calling a Monday night football game; I wish SC2 casters would follow suit. It would bring legitimacy to something I love.
There is nothing articulate about swearing and it's comedic value is used up almost immediately unless you're 13 or you're a knuckle dragger.
Nice post OP. And that's why the worlds most famous comedians never swear... oh wait...... I'm sorry but any argument that swearing is immature or dumb doesn't make sense, one of the most famous people in the UK is Stephen Fry, an oxford educated man who is probably smarter than any two people i know, with a wit beyond pretty much anyone else on this planet and he is one of the biggest supporters of the use of swearing. It give language flavour and can be used to great effect for dramatic or comedic purposes.... just because you've never heard someone swear in an intelligent way doesn't mean its inherently dumb... Infact the most intelligent people on the planet generally swear alot, Albert Einstein was notorious for swearing, if you are going to tell me that he was a knuckle dragger then I honestly would just laugh.
Even though Stephen Fry, Lewis Black, Louis C.K., etc can apply vulgarity to express a point or present humor, that doesn't mean everyone who uses vulgarity is immediately as funny as they.
|
I feel like if you can give an acceptable logical reason why ANYONE shouldn't say the word 'fuck' or how a word can be 'bad', then you have a point. Otherwise, you need to think well what should they say instead. 'Darn' instead of 'shit'? It's a synonym. It conveys more emotion, sure, but the actual logic behind curse words even existing is just silly
|
On May 25 2011 02:45 GagnarTheUnruly wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 02:40 JJH777 wrote:On May 25 2011 02:14 warsinger wrote:
As for the argument that they're going to hear this anyway so anything goes, just because something might happen doesn't mean I want it in my house on a constant basis. The more we hear things the more we internalize it and desensitize to it. Take the example of the word "rape". The more we hear it the more it desensitizes us to the horror of the reality of the word.
For the 12 year old this isn't something he is going to hear it's something he has heard and hears on a daily basis. If he's gone to public school his whole life then he probably uses it himself. It's actually kind of amazing to me how quickly parents forget what middle school is like. Since when did we decide to let middle schoolers become standard bearers for acceptable behavior?
Oh I'm not really using that as an argument that casters should be allowed to swear in tourneys I don't really have an opinion on that since I literally don't care either way. I kind of like hearing Artosis swear since it's funny but I also hate gretorops jokes. Just pointing out the ridiculousness of not wanting a 12 year old to hear the word 'fuck'.
|
I hate this whole "Bad Language" thing. The only reason it is bad language is because YOU (the general public) label it as bad. If you simply turned round and said it was just a word you use to emphasize emotions and statements, then you can't get offended by them?
I just think its silly that eventually you are going to have to tell your kids "So kids, today we will learn about the word "shit". Now although you know this word you are NEVER allowed to say it!"
If people just accepted them as normal words that are used for expression no one would EVER have a problem with them.
|
The occasional fuck is a problem but exploding marines are not?
I do understand the issue though but when a game is rated "teen" already which is 13+ apparently then where do you get the idea that maybe the casting should be completely f-bomb free because you are watching it with an 8 and 12 year old.
On the other side, swearing does not help e-sports grow if you look at it from a professional view.
|
On May 25 2011 02:43 emythrel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 02:38 IPA wrote:
Al Michaels wouldn't swear while calling a Monday night football game; I wish SC2 casters would follow suit. It would bring legitimacy to something I love.
There is nothing articulate about swearing and it's comedic value is used up almost immediately unless you're 13 or you're a knuckle dragger.
Nice post OP. And that's why the worlds most famous comedians never swear... oh wait...... I'm sorry but any argument that swearing is immature or dumb doesn't make sense, one of the most famous people in the UK is Stephen Fry, an oxford educated man who is probably smarter than any two people i know, with a wit beyond pretty much anyone else on this planet and he is one of the biggest supporters of the use of swearing. It give language flavour and can be used to great effect for dramatic or comedic purposes.... just because you've never heard someone swear in an intelligent way doesn't mean its inherently dumb... Infact the most intelligent people on the planet generally swear alot, Albert Einstein was notorious for swearing, if you are going to tell me that he was a knuckle dragger then I honestly would just laugh.
People who can use swearing to actually color their language with additional texture and meaning are exceedingly few and far between. SC2 casters are not future George Carlins, I'm afraid. If Stephen Fry ever ends up casting, let me know; otherwise, your post wasn't relevant.
When MLG / GSL / NASL get big enough, language standards will absolutely go into effect. It's just a matter of time.
|
Deal with it. This is only a problem in America for people who think it's a problem. Deal with it.
User was temp banned for this post.
|
On May 25 2011 02:48 Westy wrote:
I hate this whole "Bad Language" thing. The only reason it is bad language is because YOU (the general public) label it as bad. If you simply turned round and said it was just a word you use to emphasize emotions and statements, then you can't get offended by them?
I just think its silly that eventually you are going to have to tell your kids "So kids, today we will learn about the word "shit". Now although you know this word you are NEVER allowed to say it!"
If people just accepted them as normal words that are used for expression no one would EVER have a problem with them.
I agree with you, though I also feel that catch-all expletives like shit 'n' fuck tend to drag down the level of conversation. Have you also noticed this?
|
SC2 has an ESRB rating of Teen. How old are your kids?
I guess desensitizing your children to racially charged violence is ok, but you'd rather not have to face the wrath of mommy when your kid drops the f-bomb for the first time.
Go play concerned parent somewhere else.
|
On May 25 2011 02:49 IPA wrote:
When MLG / GSL / NASL get big enough, language standards will absolutely go into effect. It's just a matter of time.
Ok - let's discuss this when SC2 is getting big enough. Until then the casters should be allowed to drop a "fuck" every once in a while or make a sexual reference.
|
On May 25 2011 01:04 warsinger wrote:
what the always level-headed and polite TL community has to say on the issue.
We sure earned that one. Gawsh we like to debate.
But yes SOTG should be allowed to go on as it were and be obnoxious and inappropriate at times.
And the GSL should be professional and not include swearing.
And everyone else should find their niche and act accordingly. We will be taken seriously one day when the whole gang comes over with their nephews beers and chips to gather round the tube and watch their favorite team. And late night starcraft on cable will say
Parent advisory: Mature language and awkward sexual jokes. ( lol poor gretorp)
All professional attempts to reach a large audience should make aware the appropriate viewer.
Those speaking of the violence of starcraft in relation to the language used by casters. please srsly?
take it up at the PTA if you have an issue with video game violence that has nothing to do with this. kids hear and repeat words that's the issue with accidentally exposing your kids to language.
I believe NASL TSL GSL should not use offensive language so no ones daughter will be told starcraft is not appropriate for her to watch.
|
On May 25 2011 02:50 Theo wrote:
Deal with it. This is only a problem in America for people who think it's a problem. Deal with it.
A father is trying to deal with it by bringing it into the open for public discussion. Your post is condescending and useless.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
